posted September 08, 2009 12:36 AM         

I often see synastry used as a kind of test--"Are we meant to be?" "Are we Soul Mates?" (and those people get furious when the answer is "no", but really, it's a yes or no question!)

I think that's like rating someone's beauty on a scale of 1-10, or like intelligence tests (which I think basically test your test-taking ability and not too much else). It's an approach I really loathe. I believe each person is so unique and special that each one of us has our own beauty and brilliance. Similarly, at the "Soul" level, we are ALL connected and ALL "Soul Mates", including with grass, trees, lizards, cockroaches, wombats, every other human being, and every creature on earth.

It's not on the soul level that anyone needs to scramble around for proof that someone is their soul mate...it should be called "Ego Mates."

BUT, some astrologers who use synastry to check for "soul mate" tendencies are very insightful and thoughtful--IQ Hunk is a good example of that. Great astrologers use all kinds of different methods. They use a combination of knowledge and intuition to see a "big picture." It all REALLY depends on the astrologer.

I hate the use of synastry to say, "Well, our astrology proves we are Meant to Be, even if it's not in this lifetime" thing because I think it can be used to justify scarily obsessive behavior and the behaviors that ladder up to stalking. During my Neptune opposition Sun transit (thanks for the lovely memories, Neptune, not that you have left yet), a close friend of mine in the public eye had to deal with a really scary situation with an obsessed fan...the fan genuinely believed that they had a deep, fated, soul connection.
And then around the same time, I had my first unrequited attraction, and I really believed that the object of it wanted me...so I had to take a hard look at myself and say, What's the difference now between me and a scary, delusional stalker, other than that I have not crossed the line into stalking? To complicate things even more, I've had people who thought I was their soul mate in the past when I just really didn't want them, and I was younger and sweeter and shyer and some of them used that against me to push for what they wanted when I wanted to be left alone? I am now learning to work a bit better with Neptune--BUT I think some uses of synastry can encourage dangerous thinking. For example, fantasizing that someone other than your spouse is your "soul mate" due to all of your great synastry is actually an unconscious power play...a way to protect yourself against the sometimes devestating truth that the life you are living now is your entire, real life. Now, astrology used constructively works the opposite way, giving tools to help us realize our fullest potentials.

Unfortunately, my concerns about ways synastry should be used have hurt my ability to apply it as a tool. And I'm trying to undo that, and get back to looking at synastry very holistically. For example, intuitively widening some orbs and narrowing others...trying to find big or repeated patterns...most of all looking at the chart as a map of the potential interaction between two people and how it might inspire them and shape their lives.

posted September 08, 2009 02:11 AM         

Anyway, as per synastry I'm sure everyone must have these stories but I was with someone with whom I had those "soul mate" aspects- our nodes aligned with our ASC/DSC axes, moon/NN conjunction, moon/ASC, vertexes activated, composite Sun/Moon conjunction, Venus con. NN... as much as we both loved each other and valued each other the relationship itself was fraught with all sorts of issues- sexual, timing, ego wars, communication problems. It was really heartbreaking and disappointing. And of course, clung to those "soul mate" feelings supported by our synastry in hopes of getting back together- which I attempted and each time was heart broken again and again. When I look back on our synastry and composite though- I see that the planets that are significant to my natal in terms of romance were all afflicted by his personal planets and those of the composite.

posted September 08, 2009 12:27 PM         

I think astrologically, in a relationship, what matters is not whether you are compatible according to your synastry OR your natal OR anything else that can be indicated in a chart...it's another thing that's not a yes/no question...what matters is, if you happen to have feelings for another person that you want to explore, using tools to clear up communication problems and deepen connection. Looking at the synastry would be one--looking at your natal to figure out fresh ways of working with your own energy would be another.

It may be that a lot of people drawn to astrology are attracted to fatalistic thinking, and looking for an outlet for it. I dunno...thinking about this stuff always brings up really over-deep questions for me--like, why do we have relationships? What is the meaning of our connections to each other?

I never thought about these issues so deeply till I came on Lindaland (or before that Neptune transit), and I'm grateful to the site for that.

For me, intensely transformational relationships or creative collaborations or explosions of hot passion that might not last forever, but that help me open my heart and mind and be more alive, are just as valuable as spending 15 years in a close, deep, one-on-one bond with somebody. It has been helpful here to read all the posts from people who want someone to "complete" them (I want someone to thrill and inspire me, which is a little different, but equally hard to come by).

posted September 08, 2009 12:32 PM         

quote:

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always muck up synastry because whenever I'm interested in someone I obviously want things to work so I'll cling to certain aspects

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Right--me too! But the question remains, looking at synastry or the natal--what are constructive steps people can take to help us actually get what we want? How can we use astrology to bring more of what we need and love into our lives and behavior?

posted September 08, 2009 01:02 PM         

I am sorry about your experience with Neptune. It gets better with time, and soon, very soon, you will be neutral about synastry, and you will gain back the ability to fantasize and do these frivolous things without wincing from the pain of past hurts. I promise.

Also, don't judge those crazed fans. I have had a little taste of that, and although I have threatened to take action with the law, and such... I also feel pity and even understanding for their actions, irrational as they might be because at some level, all of us humans have degrees of insanity. At least I do, so don't be hard on yourself, Lucia23.

As for how I utilize synastry... Well, I actually forget about it until someone brings it up, so I never use it as a decision maker. I do however use it to see challenges... not the good stuff. The good stuff will come naturally, but challenges can be hidden and a synastry chart can make me see where I need to "compromise" or where I need to be "tolerant".

I've liked this guy for a while and I have only seen his chart recently, along with our synastry. Seeing these diagrams made me more sensitive to him because I have always been careless with him. Things like that. Also, I learned things from the chart that he hates being ignored while being fearful or unable to connect emotionally (areas which I have no issues with), so I have taken it upon myself to always "invite" him in my life because he is not as "forward" as I can be.

Even after looking at synastry, with all the soulmate signs, I still believe in free will and that a couple can choose to part ways due to different things, regardless of the love between the two. Basically, what I am saying is that synastry is a blueprint of the building, and not how the building will look after it is decorated and cared for; because the same blueprint, if the owners of the building neglect the building, no matter how great the structure of the building might be, it will be cold and lifeless. With neglect, even the strongest structures will crumble, with time and erosion etc. Everything in life thrives when it has enough energy put into it, energy from all or both parties.

Every relationship has challenges, and it is a number of certain factors that make the two people involved decide that the relationship should be preserved or terminated. This decision has nothing to do with how "good" the relationship was, but it has to do with the individuals choices mostly.

I have to go. They need me somewhere else... but to close...

I use synastry and natals to find areas of development in how two people, or how I should relate to another.

posted September 08, 2009 02:06 PM         

-figure out what you want (for the time being, of course it could change)
-then, use the synastry as a map of things to experiment with to work toward what you want

For example, if you're hoping a new partner is the one big love of your life and that you will still be together four decades from now, instead of using the synastry to gauge the likeliness of that happening, look to the chart to see elements and dynamics to activate to play up the strengths in the connection.

Let's say a big theme is a 0 degree Sun-Saturn square, and you are Saturn...you could remind yourself of that square and decide to be less judgemental when you disapprove of something he's doing. Or if you're the Sun, you could remind yourself when he seems critical/damning that the square makes it tough for him to really "see" you, and that he is trying to connect and show his care and interest by going all Saturn on you.

posted September 08, 2009 02:58 PM         

quote:

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This guy I like doesn't like me apparently and I blame it on our lack of aspects

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posted September 08, 2009 03:40 PM         

I really enjoy your insight and I would like to use synastry as a way to learn about the weak, strong points and limits between me and Mr. Virgo.

However, I don't know how to do this, that is, I don't know where to go in order to learn about the characteristics and aspects.

For example, you wrote, "0 degree Sun-Saturn square, and you are Saturn...you could remind yourself of that square and decide to be less judgemental when you disapprove of something he's doing. Or if you're the Sun, you could remind yourself when he seems critical/damning that the square makes it tough for him to really "see" you, and that he is trying to connect and show his care and interest by going all Saturn on you."

You mention words such as judgemental, critical..etc..this goes with the theme of Saturn being like the stern father.

Not all synastry sites explain these characterisitcs of the planets or the dynamics between saturn and the sun, etc. Get what I mean?

If you know how I can learn this, let me know.

For example, Mr. Virgo and I have squared venuses and opposite mars.
I have read that this indicates strong sexual connections and also, a love-hate feeling between the two but, this still does not tell me anything in regards to the dynamics between our venuses and mars.

Sure, I have read the descriptions of our venuses and mars but I want to know the way that they interact in terms of our relationship...just to get more insight.

If you know how to work around this, please let me know.

Thanks.

posted September 08, 2009 04:31 PM         

I do have some suggestions that help me, though.

-instead of looking up "cookbook" aspects on different websites to see what's in your natal or synastry, use those same online resources (or books) to get very familiar with the basic, GENERAL meanings of each of the twelve houses and the major planets. Then get familiar with the GENERAL meanings of each aspect.

-then, instead of starting with the synastry, start with the real-life relationship. Write down a question for yourself--an area you'd like to address or work on. Then decide which planets/houses contribute to that situation. For example, let's say that every time Mr. Virgo talks to his parents on the phone, he flies into a rage afterwards and takes it out on you. (Obviously, hypothetical!) First you would look at his natal chart and see what's going on in the 4th house (home, family), and what's going on with his Mars (ways of handling anger.) Then, in the synastry, you might see which of your planets fall oin his fourth, how your planets are triggering or aspecting his 4th house planets, and how your planets are aspecting his Mars. Then you'd apply your GENERAL knowledge of those planets, aspects, and house placements to understand the dynamics in the relationship.

Of course, it is very complicated and requires some intuition...for example, I notice that in different charts, different planets seem to represent someone's father issues...if you look at lots of charts of people who have told you details about their lives over years, it obviously gets easier, and you sort of glance at a chart and certain dynamics leap out at you.

Sites like Lindaland are a great resource for practicing or getting feedback. There are some excellent astrologers here, and often they will help read your chart or synastry. Starting with a specific, constructive question can really help channel the discussion past an "are we soulmates" place.

Also, like I said, I think starting from real life is extra important and helpful. We each have synastry with every other person on the planet. My synastry with the actress who stars in my favorite sitcom, unless I have met her personally, will not play out on both sides...and if I dream about her every night and feel a deep connection with her, I am actually feeling those things about an IMAGE, not a person.

I think our feeling of intense connection with (some) strangers is better explained by the tools of psychology than astrology, although there are certainly astrological themes and indicators for every relationship at every level, including the most one-sided. Synastry is misleading, though, because matematically we WILL have aspects with EVERYONE IN THE WORLD. It builds a fantasy that IF a stranger met us, s/he would feel all the things indicated by our tight Valentine conjunction, etc., and if we never meet in this lifetime, it's because in some other lifetime we were important to them.

It is a dangerous line of thinking, because a key element of the obsessional syndrome that leads to stalking is that the obsessed fan genuinely believes his/her feelings are or will be reciprocated. I worry that encouraging this line of thinking on LL is akin to praising an anorexic who posts on a "thinspiration" site that she is living on four carrots a day.

SO, I really think astrology is best combined with other interpretive tools, and that can actually be very helpful for those of us who are still learning/practicing.

We can start by taking stock of the relationship, how it's playing out right now, what we want right now, and how we'd like to work with it. Then we can apply our general knowledge, as we learn, to the chart, combined with common sense and back-and-forth with what we're experiencing.

posted September 09, 2009 12:07 AM         

Thanks again for replying and I truly appreciate your interest. Mr. Virgo and I have been dating for one year already and I am far more interested in learning how to use synastry this way than the cookbook form.

Wow....but it sounds difficult. As in, I know what squares and trines mean. But I don't know how to do the figural interpretation.

I have some questions I hope you don't mind or anybody else answering.

Question 1. Is there a term for planets that are on the same sign but not conjunct? E.g. he has saturn in scorpio, I am a scorpio sun. It is not conjunct (I would not know either) but what does this mean then? Nothing?

I also don't know what a conjuction is. I mean....I read the '10 degrees' and 'orb'. I have done the free synastry chart and they differ when it comes to our conjunctions. I am also awful at reading charts so I truly don't know if we have conjunctions at all.

Question 2. How do progressions affect one? I am a natal scorpio sun but my sun has progressed in Sag. I am still a scorpio but does the progression mean that I have more Saggie qualities in my persona?

Question 3. Also, in my virgo's progressed chart, he has libra sun, virgo moon and mercury, venus in leo and mars in virgo and ALL of them in the 7th house. Let me guess...does this indicate that he is very relationship oriented at this moment?

Question 4. Also, I have read that transits matter more than progressions, is this true?

Well, the questions I would like to tackle are many. First of all, I find that I am a very complicated person. I have been looking at my natal chart to learn more about myself and improve as a person. I have sun, mercury and venus in scorpio oppposite moon and asc in taurus and squaring my mars in Aquarius.

Sometimes I feel as if I love-hate being in a relationship. At times, I enjoy being in one, other times I want to break free. And with Mr. Virgo, I feel as if I care and don't care about him at times. It is as if I fluctuate between yes and no and well, it seems I am also very slow to love/fall in love...since I don't love him (not that he has said he loves me either). Anyways, this can make me pretty unstable at times. I am working at controlling it instead of letting it out though.

But..it is like this, his b-day was on Labor Day, I enjoyed spending time with him, I treated him like a king and everything felt great.

Now, I think..."you know, I don't care if we break up" and I start wondering about whether there is someone better out there for me. Sometimes I feel very emotionally sad and unsatisfied for no reason or maybe just for silly things. As in, I forget about the good things and focus on the negative or I start disliking him for things he did that I have done. Talking about hypocrisy! Then, I talk to my mom and my mom helps me in seeing the bigger picture. I have to thank her a lot, if it had not been for her, I would have kicked Mr. Virgo a long time ago. I was wondering if this has to do with the fact that our venuses square and mars oppose one another....or if maybe it is just more of a natal chart issue. I have this feeling that my natal chart is more of the problem since I started thinking about past relationships and saw a pattern. I will say this, if this is the case, then I hate having opposite sun-moon. Didn't Michael Jackson also have this aspect? Poor thing.

I have venus in scorpio, mars in aqua and he has venus and mars in Leo.

Question 5. Also, is it true that transitions have to do with commitment in relationships? As in, someone is more likely to fall/commit to a person depending on the transit? I read that saturn transiting in your 7th house indicates wanting to commit.

I know, many questions but any comments are highly appreciated.

posted September 09, 2009 12:20 AM         

But I happen to have stumbled across your thread about Mr. Virgo elsewhere today (in the Soul Mates or Personal Readings forum, maybe? Can't remember) and I made some comments there.

When you are just starting to learn to look at synastry, I think it makes sense to use a very narrow orb (try reducing the orbs to 50% on astro.com), and focus on tight aspects. But there is no universal consensus between astrologers on how wide or narrow an orb to use.

When planets are in the same sign but too wide apart for it to be a conjunction, it could feel similar to a conjunction but not be as potent or binding.

posted September 09, 2009 12:35 AM         

I don't care about other people who don't touch my soul in some way thus I will not look into the synastry I have with them.

For example, someone sitting next to me in one of my classes, we could share the most amazing synastry..but if I don't care or get some sort of impression from that person..I am not going to bother with the synastry..especially if I do not know them personally.

It takes a lot for me to be close to people and I usually don't start looking into synastry until I have known the person a period of time to feel as if I have to look at the synastry, to see why were so darn close.

Example: Aries Girl is my childhood friend I have known her since I was four. I have some of my personal planets on her IC..we feel like sisters sometimes because we pratically grew up together.

I will only do synastry on people I actually care about and am close to..I do not like doing synastry for someone I just met and I know nothing about..

posted September 09, 2009 01:49 AM         

I appreciate your suggestion in terms of the orbs. I shall try this.

posted September 09, 2009 02:20 PM         

quote:

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I think, though, that each natal is so complex that none of us are compatible or incompatible with anyone--rather, different relationships are places where we play out and express different parts of our chart. AND the chart is really only a map of potential. I think astrology is a beautiful system of metaphors, but I'm skeptical about its factuality, in the sense that any aspect or dynamic shows something that WILL happen

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Agreed. And what a lovely line, "astrology as a beautiful system of metaphors."

I find synastry helpful in reminding me to pay attention. For example, my Mercury is in Pisces, and I had a lover with Mercury in Sagittarius. Our square was exact. We made sure that when we communicated, one was sure of what the other intended, because there was a lot of misinterpretation. She tended to tease and I tended to take offense. Of course, even this example is a huge oversimplification of our experience together. Still, I'll cite another example: a current lover I have has Venus is in Leo and it opposes my Venus in Aquarius by less than a degree. I make an effort to nuture his dramatic Leonine love style because my Water Bearing love style can be very detached.

This is a great topic of discussion. I often shy away from dropping astrology lines around people because they think I'm being fatalistic or that it's super cut and dry (and I'm so damn guilty of always bringing up the experience of having my Sun in Aries & my Moon in Pisces). Or that I run my life based on what the stars say. I try to explain that it's just a way of thinking about life, like archetypes in storytelling.

posted September 09, 2009 03:55 PM         

I have do the same before in another man I was intressted in. I checked out my sec progress to hims natal and sec progress. I checked out and knew when I will meeting him next time. When the sec progress was over he was out of my life. I don't see him anymore . We not beeing togheter. We are only friend. When i get the thought i must develop these relation. I must talk to him more and so on... He already out. And the sex progres from my venus to his neptun was far away. My thinking was it's not meant to be

posted September 10, 2009 12:14 AM         

I was hoping you could give me some insight, Lucia, on some synastry. I would make my own post, but it is not really an issue I want everyone to know about or at least it is not very interesting to some.

My issue is instigating a sexual union with someone. Basically I'm not sexually unexperienced, but I'm a virgin. The person I'm with is more experienced, but he doesn't seem to want to initiate anything and in fact he doesn't even know that I'm a virgin, but I'm getting really annoyed by his lack of passion. We've been dating for a while and I don't know what to do. Actually this isn't really a synastry question at all. If your interested, I'll just post individual charts and synastry.

Other Person:

My chart:

Synastry: http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c223/missneptune/VESynastrywithValentine.gif

posted September 10, 2009 12:53 AM         

Is your birth time for Mr. Double Leo exact? If so, he's got a hell of a 5th house. Our Saturn house before our 1st Saturn Return is where we tend to get scared, self-sabotage, and make everything heavier and less fun than it needs to be. Fifth house Saturn men tend to thwart themselves in the areas of creativity, romance, fun, and play. At least HIS Saturn is happily fiery, making it less of a big wet blanket for his Sun and Mars. But he's also got Uranus and Neptune in there, creating a stewy fizz of fantasy and unpredictability...all tough on his tender Cancer Venus up there in no man's land. (I am a Leo Sun, Cancer Venus like your guy.)

There are a couple of different possibilities that I see (and I'm sure many more that I don't see) based on the natals:
1) He has some issue going on with his sexuality and sexual attractions that he hasn't quite sorted out yet. I don't mean necessarily same-sex attractions, but there may be issues (I am getting that from that 5th house and his Neptune-Venus opposition) where he's struggling to figure out what he finfds erotically satisfying, and he has not yet given himself permission to admit what he really wants. It may be that for whatever reason, your relationship is not where he's feeling that carnal passion right now.
2) If you are close friends, as well as dating? He could be wanting not to pressure you, so he is trying not to rachet up the passion in case his fiery Mars gets carried away before you are ready.

Have you told him what you want? For you two Leos, that might be the very best course of action. "I want you to be my first," is something no Leo Man really hates to hear (unless he is secretly not attracted to you or in love with a dude)...if he has been trying not to pressure you, this might solve the whole problem. He may have wanted your physical contact not to get as heated as it could, in case you wanted to put the breaks on. And if it's some other issue, and his heart (and other bits) are not fully in the relationship, I think he will probably tell you. Based on his natal, he looks like he is probably a pretty decent guy (adjust, though, for my huge pro-Leo prejudice.) If YOU feel very attracted to HIM (and I can't tell from what you said if you do...but looking at your charts I can imagine you might), he would likely not be a bad guy to lose your virginity to. In fact I really wouldn't be surprised to learn that he's just trying to be respectful.

posted September 10, 2009 11:22 AM         

Either way, were really good friends, but were more than that, we've gotten pretty intimate before. But he was gone for 3 months and he just returned 2 weeks ago, so maybe I should just be more patient.