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Author Topic:   I know the rising sign, I just need the birth time!
scorpio.rising
Knowflake

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From: Canada
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posted September 28, 2009 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scorpio.rising     Edit/Delete Message
I know someone whose birthday is 3/25/1990 in Springfield, MO and his ascendant is Pisces.. is there any way to figure out an approximate birth time? (as long as it's at least the correct hour)

I want to calculate a full synastry chart but I just don't know his exact time of birth.. Can somebody tell me if it's possible to somehow figure out the window of time when Pisces was rising on his day of birth?
Thank you for your time

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cpn_edgar_winner
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posted September 28, 2009 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpn_edgar_winner     Edit/Delete Message
you can do the work. go on astro and check the time at noon and see what riser it is, the go backwards or forwards till you hit it.

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Astra
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posted September 28, 2009 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astra     Edit/Delete Message
5:00am is Pisces rising

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milyi
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posted September 28, 2009 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for milyi     Edit/Delete Message
You can use the Trutine of Hermes, especially since you know the rising. I have to go now but i'll come back later and help you.

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milyi
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posted September 29, 2009 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for milyi     Edit/Delete Message
Rising is 4 degrees Pisces.

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StarrofVenusGirl
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posted September 29, 2009 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrofVenusGirl     Edit/Delete Message
According to my calculations on Astro, Pisces was rising from 4:47 AM through 6:02 AM.

However, I don't think you will be able to use this information to do an accurate synastry chart. Houses and aspects flucuate wildly during even this short time frame. Synastry is totally dependent on accuracy.

You would really need an exact birth time to get a true synastry chart.

------------------
My Chart

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
How do you know the person is a Pisces rising though?

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blue moon
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 02:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
If you have an ephemeris you can draw up a noon chart (without houses).

No, you won't get a full picture but you will still have some major themes. Some planets will not be moving very far over the course of the day.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 06:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
First of all, Pisces is a thankful rising sign, as it rises so quickly, which means you can at least know the degree of the Moon.

For a precise synastry chart you need to do a rectification, which of course is never foolproof.

Look at the transits and progressions for past events.

For example, often when a significant relationship starts, there will be a planet on the ASC (progressed or natal). Of course it never works 100% of the times.

Also, I would have a look at the Sabian degrees, as I have found the degree of the ASC to be quite telling in most cases. But of course there is always the possibility to still be wrong.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Milyi,

what is the trutine of Hermes?

I also know someone with Pisces Rising, but no accurate birthtime; I have rectified it myself, but of course I am curious if others would come to a similiar conclusion.

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milyi
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posted September 30, 2009 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for milyi     Edit/Delete Message
The Trutine of Hermes http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2009/04/25/getting-started-with-rectification-trutine-of-hermes-and-animodar/

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Have you found it to be valid?

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
WOW, using that calculator I was only 4 minutes off (which were 3 degree). Not bad, but i have to test it with my own birthtime which is exact.

Well, testing it with my own birth it is 20 minutes or 5 degrees off.

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pire
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posted September 30, 2009 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
DD, i tried it but stop because i couldn't find the julian date, where did you look for that?

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
it is in the link "Calendar Converter". You insert your date in the Gregorian calendar and scroll down to Julian calendar, the first one I guess.

And I think this one only works if the ASC sign is known.
And of course it only works if the premise is right, that at the time of conception the Moon was exactly conjunct ASC.


EDIT:
Actually in my chart it would change a lot, as my former ASC was on 7 Sag, and the ASC according to that method is on 2 Sag, which means it is not conjunct my Neptune anymore.

But both, my mother as well as my birth certificate, give the time with precisely 7:07 a.m. So I guess the clock must have been VERY wrong, if that wasn`t true.

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pire
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
ok DD, i get the juliadate from the gregorian date, but how to convert it back?

i entered the new julian date then pressed calculate but it wrote something like -1#IND september 30

?

any idea? how did you do?

sorry

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DD
Knowflake

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posted September 30, 2009 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I entered the new julian date in the julian calendar and pressed calculate there, then scrolled up again and it came up with 13th march I believe (Strange thought though), which makes sense as I am december-born.

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pire
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posted September 30, 2009 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
it didn't work for me

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milyi
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posted October 01, 2009 04:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for milyi     Edit/Delete Message
DD I found it to be valid, I was born one minute later than I thought, it didn't change the planetary positions but it changed the rising sign by one degree and the midheaven by two degrees so I probably have other sabian symbols. I think it is a method which works fine but you must have some idea what the rising is or what period of time you were born.

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DD
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posted October 01, 2009 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Pire,

give me your data and I try it out for you.


Well, to be honest, the 2 degree Sagittarius do not really work for me, but then maybe I am just mentally inflexible.
Or I have miscalculated.
The others I tried out so far very pretty close. But have to try out some more.


EDIT:
BTW there is a mistake in the article. if your Moon is above the horizon, you have to calculate the distance from DESC to Moon, not from the ASC to Moon.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted October 01, 2009 05:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Oops, I think I did it all wrong!

I just saw that the ASC of the conception date also has to be on the same degree as my natal Moon.
And THAT Moondegree in the conception chart would be my rising degree.
So in my case that would change it to 5 degree SAgittarius (instead of 7 degree Sagittarius). I guess that seems more likely to me.


So, in the other case where I only knew the rising sign that gives him a rising of 13 Pisces. Funny, cause I really was uncertain if his rising would be 9 Pisces or 13 Pisces. So I think my inution has been confirmed.

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pire
Knowflake

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posted October 01, 2009 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
ok, now i'm lost.

DD,

"BTW there is a mistake in the article. if your Moon is above the horizon, you have to calculate the distance from DESC to Moon, not from the ASC to Moon."

really? what makes you say that?

it doesn't change anything for me since my natal moon is below the horizon

"I just saw that the ASC of the conception date also has to be on the same degree as my natal Moon.
And THAT Moondegree in the conception chart would be my rising degree."

now here i'm drifting in the middle of the ocean, alone on a lifeboat... i'm LOST

where did you read that? i missed it!

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DD
Knowflake

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posted October 01, 2009 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Pire,

"BTW there is a mistake in the article. if your Moon is above the horizon, you have to calculate the distance from DESC to Moon, not from the ASC to Moon."

really? what makes you say that?"

Someone in the comment below the article pointed that out and the author confirmed that. I tried it out and it seems to be true.


"it doesn't change anything for me since my natal moon is below the horizon, i'm born at 2:55 pm"
Hmm, what could your ASC be. Well seeing that you are an Aquarius Sun, Sun must be above the horizon for a daytime-birth. Probably between 10th and 7th house.
Hmm, your MC could be in Pisces, maybe Aries.
So where is your ASC? In Cancer? Or just crossing the border to Gemini or even Leo?


Oh well, I could simply ask you of course. But why take the easy route, if there is a complicated astronomical way?

"ow here i'm drifting in the middle of the ocean, alone on a lifeboat... i'm LOST

where did you read that? i missed it!"

Sorry, must be my 1st house Neptune, now I am confusing not just myself, but even you.

It is in the article, where the premise is told:

"The Trutine of Hermes has as a working premise that the placement of the Moon at the time of birth is that of the Ascendant at conception, and that the degree of the Ascendant at birth is that of the Moon at concept"


So, it is a two fold premise; two things must be considered:

1. Moon of natal chart is the same as the ASC in conception chart.
So if you have a Moon at 23 Scorpio (I took the 7th february 1972 as example, cause I have a friend who has been born on 7th february, just some years later, but it was easier to just modify the year instead of casting a new chart)-
the conception chart ASC has to be 23 Scorpio.

2. The conception chart Moon is the same as the ASC in the natal chart.


So you calculate the conception chart and the conception chart for someone born on 7th feb 1972 would be 30th april 1971

Now, you remember that the ASC has to be on 23 Scorpio (as that is your natal Moon), so you rectify it, until 23 scorpio is on the ASC of the conception chart.

In that conception chart Moon would be at 26°53 Cancer.


3. So you rectify the time of your natal chart until 26°53 is on the ASC, and then you check the Moon of the natal chart again. Has it changed?


Yes it actually did change! Now it is on 24 Scorpio.


4. So I have to get back to the conception chart and rectify the time until 24 Scorpio is on the ASC of the conception chart.

On 8:40 pm the ASC is on 24°13 Scorpio, which is the closest to 24 Scorpio it can get.

Checking the Moon, it is now on 26°55 Cancer.


5. Going back once again to the natal chart and trying to get this elusive 26°55 Cancer on the ASC.

Well, we don`t get 26°55, but we get 27°00 Cancer, which is close enough I guess.
That would be on 3:41 p.m..

On 3:40 pm the ASC would be on 26°47 Cancer, so the time of 3:41 p.m. would be more exact.

Checking one last time for the Moon (it should be on 24 Scorpio now) and it is: on 24°00 Scorpio as we wanted it to be.


I calculated this for 7th february 1972 in Los Angeles starting with a birtime of 2:55 p.m.


I hope I didn`t calculate anything wrong here

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pire
Knowflake

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posted October 01, 2009 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
thanks dd, i checked the other thread too, you know what, u should think about becoming a teacher

what a patience, my mercury in pisces conjunct south node is a serious affliction to overcome, good job

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pire
Knowflake

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posted October 01, 2009 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
scorpio.rising, sorry for the hijacking.

back to your thread (hope anything we said was at least a bit helpful)

thanks for starting this thread


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