posted October 06, 2009 05:12 PM            

How can we respond to people who are skeptic about astrology?

Well, I myself am not a firm believer of astrology. But I've been interested in it coz I love how its system blends symbolism, psychology and mathematics together, and then, what so far makes sense for me has also been useful (like a scheme) to make certain situations of my life easier to understand.

But then, how can we determine if astrology really works or not? We know that things in the universe can influence each other, but then how do we know if people having certain traits has anything to do with the celestial bodies' position at all, and not just a coincidence? The problem is, whether it just being a coincidence or actually works, we can't really know simply coz we don't really know how it works behind.
And then, there's also the Forer's effect (personal validation fallacy). It is often so easy to identify ourselves with seemingly specific but actually vague descriptions, specially if the descriptions are flattering.

But well, I'm not here to say that astrology is all nonsense, coz if I really think so, then I would have long gone. Besides, astrology does make sense to me in some way. It's just it sometimes makes me wonder, specially when I wonder how could we actually respond to the arguments of the skeptics. Most of the skeptics might just be skeptics by influence (and most of them might not really know anything about astrology), but since there's lack of objective arguments about why and how astrology works, we can't really assume that astrology really works anyways.

posted October 06, 2009 05:22 PM            

A very dear friend of mine admits that I'm extremely accurate with it, but he says he thinks my intelligence, intuition, and facility with metaphors are the reason...that I use astrological ideas (like a Pluto square) as metaphorical tools to describe things I intuitively pick up on, and my intuition is so accurate that I come up with things that are meaningful.

I guess, to a large extent, I agree with him...although I think there really might be rational, "outside" validity to certain astrological constructs as beyond a metaphoric system. But I don't really know. I've read quite a few arguments around here about how/why it works, including arguments that draw on particular theories of spirituality of the "soul", and theories that draw on quantum mechanics, but none of them really resonate with me.

I can almost always guess someone's sun sign if I meet them in person--and, why is that?

posted October 06, 2009 05:57 PM            

Regarding making predictions, atheists suggest starting a notebook. Think someone is a particular sign write it down. Commit to pen and paper. If your wrong you cannot accept the attitude that this was your second choice. For instance I had a psychic test here a bit ago. The answer was a red metallic water bottle. Some guessed something red and round. Were they right ? How many objects are red and round? lipstick, ball, bead, cherry, strawberry,many berries, many types of balls, earings, stop light, clown nose, a bulb, vase, stickers, several flowers, rugs, toilet seat covers, perfume bottles, compact,apple, seat covers, dials, red adhesive dots, some post mark stamps......... get it. We give ourselves more room for error while scientific study does not. It is also important to recognize that much study scientific or astrological can be innacurate.

posted October 07, 2009 04:07 AM            

I even keep things like psychic,metaphysical stuff to myself....even in this forum. I am very private in that way.

Raymond

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"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 07, 2009 07:31 AM            

and why i engage in this conversation. if they want to convince me, then they can try

posted October 07, 2009 11:19 AM            

I already know that I am a pantheist. I am familiar with the term,panentheism.

My church is Spiritual Life Center. It is an interfaith unity church. It is part of the Unity churches. You can transfer membership to any unity church from that church.

You don't have to be a panentheist to be a member of the church.

my own beliefs fit with New Age,Neo-paganism,Unitarian Univeralism,and New Thought.

SLC's Interfaith Focus

Spiritual Life Center is an Interfaith Unity Ministry that honors the many paths to God and helps people of all faiths apply positive spiritual principles in their daily lives. SLC was founded in 1998 in Sacramento by Reverends Michael and Faith Moran, whose mission since ordination was to help create "peace among the world religions" and teach acceptance of all paths to God. One God, Many Paths is embraced by SLC and serves people of diverse spiritual backgrounds. We are dedicated to teaching and expressing a positive and practical approach to life. Our beliefs are in harmony with all of the world’s great traditions that teach love. Our programs, services, and classes are designed to awaken the Spirit within each one of us.

SLC is proud to be an active member of Sacramento’s Interfaith Service Bureau. Throughout the year we participate in many activities and programs with our brothers and sisters from among the rich multicultural diversity in our community. SLC sponsors guest speakers from many of the Major World Religions to create understanding and to build bridges of harmony and peace.

We welcome you to join us on this journey as the Spiritual Life Center community connects with God and discovers the wonder of our own being. As a loving and supportive spiritual community, we offer encouragement and assistance along the path as we learn to think clearly, pray effectively, serve generously, and love deeply.

We’ll be looking for you next Sunday because what we know here at Spiritual Life Center is:

“It’s not the same without you.”
http://www.slcworld.org/WhoWeAre/interfaithFocus.php

SLC Vision Statement

Spiritual Life Center is a loving, vibrant family that welcomes home people of every age, race, culture, sexual orientation and people with disabilities – all people.
Together, we transform lives.

Weaving ancient spiritual traditions with emerging wisdom we cultivate deep personal relationships with The Divine, each other and our planet.

We joyfully express oneness in an awakened world.

SLC Mission Statement

Spiritual Life Center is an Interfaith Unity Ministry dedicated to the following mission: To Love, Serve and Remember

Love
Love, God, ourselves, each other and our planet.

Serve
The love of God is expressed through service to others and by preparing conscious leaders who will inspire our future generations.

Remember
We are one with God. All life is sacred. Each person is empowered to fulfill his or her divine purpose while living passionately, loving generously and serving joyfully.
http://www.slcworld.org/WhoWeAre/visionMission.php

What We Believe

Spiritual Life Center honors the many paths to God and helps people of all faiths apply positive spiritual principles in their daily lives. As an Interfaith Unity Ministry, we ascribe to the following five principles:

* God is the source and creator of all. There is no other enduring power. God is good and present everywhere.

* We are spiritual beings, created in God’s image. The spirit of God lives within each person; therefore, all people are inherently good.

* We create our life experiences through our way of thinking.

* There is power in affirmative prayer, which we believe increases our connection to God.

* Knowledge of these spiritual principles is not enough. We must live them.
http://www.slcworld.org/WhoWeAre/whatWeBelieve.php

Raymond

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"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 07, 2009 11:57 AM            

"But it's not an exact Science." To which I respond, "Which of the exact Sciences is an 'exact science'? Usually shuts up the polite ones.

posted October 07, 2009 04:47 PM            

They don't believe in Astrology but don't know why..

posted October 07, 2009 06:05 PM            

But if I do care, like its a close friend wanting a real answer:

I tell them to look at Or consider the famous ingraving by Marcantonio Raimondi (circa 1518) were he has depicts of the different Gods of the Zodiac.

There is a Zodiac on the ceiling inside the Federal Reserve Board headquarters building.
I ask them why? Why the need for that?

Or The Large zodiac clock on the facade of Bracken House in London

Or consider zodiacal figures of Sagitarrius and Scorpio on an Arch a the monastary of Sacra di San Michele in Italy.

Or consider how the 12 Sephirot totally connect to each sign.

How its known that Presidents consulted them.

And ultimately that there are 4-5,000 year old Egyptian Temples with Astrological symbols on the roof.

The Ancient Babylonian use of it.

posted October 07, 2009 08:44 PM            

But well, not every skeptic is evil lol, some of them does indeed have an open mind and would listen to others if there are good arguments.

posted October 07, 2009 10:04 PM            

Other than that, if they don't believe in astrology, so be it. All I ask for is for them to respect my beliefs as I will respect their beliefs...live and let live really. I just wish such an attitude would prevail in every facet of life, especially religion, instead of people trying to jam their thoughts down other people's throats. There would be a lot less bloodshed and ill-will in the world.

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"The only way out is through" ---Robert Frost

posted October 07, 2009 10:19 PM            

But,

I once had a first date with this guy, and during dinner he was so intense, his eyes, everything about him was intense, he had strong opinions, and at some point, the subject came to astrology, and he said very intensely, I DON'T BELIEVE IN ASTROLOGY!!! I looked at him and said, you're Scorpio, aren't you?

posted October 07, 2009 11:51 PM            

Leo also probably recognize that they are the rightful kings and queens of the zodiac. lol.

posted October 08, 2009 06:36 AM            

All I have to do is tell them "So you had a tough time coping with major changes between age 29 and 30"?
Thats enough to make their jaw drop.
Good Old Saturn Return....

Carl Payne Tobey has already given strong statistical evidence of Astrology.

I discovered a subjective proof of Astrology, Past Life Connection, Illuminati and Occult Asteroid Frequencies all in one yesterday.

Mayer Amschell Rothschild is said to be the chief of the Illuminati Bloodline in 1700's.
He was born with SIVA on 29 Libra. Illuminati are said to have 50% Reptilian and 50% Mammalian Genetics, hence the anaretic of the "Balance" Sign and just before the Reptilian Programmer's favourite sign of Scorpio.
Amschell lived to be 111 years.
The latest "Pindar" or Chief of Illuminati was Guy De Rothschild, who died 2007.
He was 98.
Both established very powerful banking empires, starting from scratch. Both lived very long lives and both were allegedly Pindars.
And Guy has Asteroid KAALI exactly on 29 Libra....
Highly likely to be the same Soul....

What is the probability of 2 billionaire bloodline family members living nearly 100 years each having the most powerful Dark Divine Masculine Asteroid conjunct Dark Divine Feminine Asteroid exact on 29 Libra, the last degree of balance?

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Soul Mate Love Calculator

posted October 08, 2009 08:08 PM            

Seriously though, it doesn't bother me if people don't believe in astrology. I think they're missing out on a tool that can help them feel connected with the divine, but some people of all religions probably feel that way about me. They can do their thing and I'll do mine.

We all listen in different ways. I find messages and meaning in astrology, they don't. I'm fine with that.

Sometimes I offer to read their charts, if they'd like to see how astro works (since most people just know about sun sign astrology). Usually though I just say I've found some value in it, and joke that now they can feel superior to me. That way I'm acknowledging that I know they believe it's stupid of me to believe in it, but I don't care...so then they can choose either to hold on to that condescending perspective or accept that it must have some value.

posted October 08, 2009 09:33 PM            

I can understand people's biases against astrology, but I already know that it's real, despite reasonable objections to it.

To believe in astrology, you must believe in a universal consciousness, one that we exist within. Because of that connection, our inner self can be represented symbolically in the planets, which are symbols for different aspects of the universal.