posted December 04, 2009 04:23 PM         

I am just saying what I've seen of at least 50, but most likely more charts of people who were killed or had some violent encounter take place. At that time, they had mars in aspect to pluto in transit. It'ss known as a dangerous transit for a reason.

A lot of these people also had the natal aspect. A lot.

posted December 04, 2009 05:25 PM         

I probably wouldn't have said anything to you, but my roommate's younger sister was here yesterday (she is 17). She had a look at this thread because she knows someone at her high school who was raped - and she is now a little scared that she'll be violently murdered.
She has Mars/Pluto in both natal & transit.

There is no such thing as a bad aspect.

IMO a "bad aspect" is kind of like a small *ahem* It's not the size. It's the way you use it! lol

posted December 04, 2009 07:51 PM         

I have Mars trine Pluto with both co-ruling my MC and both planets are angular in my chart. I have found this plays out with always being "noticed".
I do believe that strong Pluto/Angular aspects also symbolize a power so its really how you use the aspects.

Example: I work in a very male dominant environment and initially it would get overwhelming and all I wanted to do was hide. But that made me more susceptible and attracted even more unwanted attention. So instead I forced myself to be out there, day to day, addressing the men who went too far and built my reputation to one where they know they can look but pursuing me in an unwanted way will get them into trouble.

I haven't researched victims' charts like Diana has but if there is such a potential I do think the whole chart should be analyzed for strengths and weaknesses and then you can guide the native to build on her/his strengths and empower these aspects to their benefit.

Pluto/Scorpio/MC or Pluto/Asc and ruler and Mars and Pluto angular make for a powerful strength for natives to use wisely and they have protection.
I think as with anything else when you are not aware of your power you project it outwards and unfortunately ignorant people may use it against you

posted December 04, 2009 09:30 PM         

I never said it means it will happen, but it seems like it's there when it DOES happen an awful lot.

I've had the mars-pluto transit recently, and I was fine. You're right, it doesn't always happen, but it is a POTENTIALLY dangerous time. I always take extra safety measures during such a transit. Like, common sense stuff I should be doing anyway. So, it can be positive to know it's in operation.

I think there are such things as 'bad transits.' Pluto square pluto is one of them. To say there isn't bad transits is denial, imo, there are challenging ie 'bad' transits and we all know it. That's why you get threads about how pluto or saturn or uranus is causing someone unbearable pain and horrible life situations. They aren't easy transits. They're bad. There are also bad synastry aspects all over this board. They are thought of as bad, because they have been bad to alot of people, so there's data supporting the theory, but that doesn't mean everyone who has composite mars opposite saturn will be in an abusive relationship, but you know what? So many composites with that HAVE had that experience, so it sticks. But we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm sorry your friend got upset, but I didn't bring up the topic and was just sharing my research.

posted December 04, 2009 11:19 PM         

I don't see why it's unethical. If someone is offended by it they should just not read the thread. It would be unethical only if the person didn't ask to know about it. Since I am not a professional astrologer, I have no problems deciding whether or not to tell someone if they ask about it.

I think you can sometimes predict death in a natal with tranits. I also think you can predict dangerous transits and times that can actually help you possibly avoid the danger by better protecting yourself.

I don't think it's any more unethical than telling someone their boyfriend or girlfriend is a cheater or liar or whatever based on a chart, and I see that all the time.

Maybe you should just go to that happy vanilla denial forum then...if it's the forum I am thinking it is, they actually warn you that you can be a victim of violence during the mars-pluto transits on their daily forecast, so I guess they are pretty hyprocritical -- unless it's a different forum.

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You cant pinpoint when someone is going to pass away, that's the one thing that astrology has hidden

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Oh really? If so, then that basically makes astrology an ethical god-like entity, since it has the power to reveal all but that. It doesn't hide it. Astrology is only as accurate as the people who read it. No one can pinpoint exactly when someone can or will die, just like they can't predict when you will get married, but they can predict when marriage or death are *likely* based on transits.

posted December 05, 2009 12:00 AM         

quote:

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I don't see why it's unethical.

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You having the personal opinion that death can be predicted is *not* unethical. This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Telling people that a particular aspect may quite possibly (not 100% but in many cases) lead to death or violent attacks - is unethical.

Firstly because you cannot be certain that the death *will* occur. There is no guarantee of this. Secondly, because giving someone the impression that they are possibly on their death bed - can have a psychological impact on their life (a negative impact).

I understand you did not intend anything negative. This is not a personal attack on you. I simply have beef with this sort of thing - as I mentioned above (other astrologers do this, both professional & unprofessional ones).

:edit: to add - This is very much so a two way street. Lots of things are said on the internet and I do believe that people in general should be more discerning. I was surprised at C's reaction (the girl I mentioned).

The fact that people should be discerning, however, - does not rule out your end of the moral stick.

quote:

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I also think you can predict dangerous transits and times that can actually help you possibly avoid the danger by better protecting yourself.

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Diana - this would be nice in theory, but it doesn't always work out so well in practice. There was a particular event in my life when I tried to avoid something and as a result of my avoidance - something entirely different happened instead (which was even worse). Occasionally avoidance can wind you up on a course that doesn't end as well as you imagined.

quote:

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I don't think it's any more unethical than telling someone their boyfriend or girlfriend is a cheater or liar or whatever based on a chart, and I see that all the time.

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I agree. That is also unethical.

posted December 05, 2009 02:32 PM         

I study psych and when it comes to counselling u really have to be careful of your ethics and telling ppl things about themselves. The whole point is to get ppl to come to their own conclusions and realisations. For instance, u CANNOT tell someone what YOU think about THEIR situation, its just wrong for obvious reasons. Like, I would never ever tell a client that I think that their schizophrenic based on their dialogue and give them my own personal opinion. It can cause a lot of damage.

Same with astrology. And NO YOU CANNOT PINPOINT A DEATH IN A CHART. Simple as that. If that was visible on a natal then we'd have all sorts of problems with ppl living their lives. Id love to know when im gonna die, just so i can span out my yrs and plan everything out, so wanna take a look at my natal and tell me the time im gonna die??

It would help me quite a lot as im not afraid of such topics, but it would cause a lot of trauma and negative/depressive, irregular thoughts for most ppl and they would be living their lives in anticipation, not really living waiting for the moment they die. Thats not really living at all and its ruining a person's cognition cos their obsessing about death. Sorry but you cant argue that. Same with the dangerous aspects, mar-pluto DOES NOT MEAN RAPE OR DEATH and it would be SO EFFING WRONG to look at someone's natal chart, when you are NOT a professional astrologer (which takes MANY MANY MANY MANY years of PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION) and telling them that due to this transit that they gonna be raped or murdered horrificly. Same with looking at someone's natal and telling them that they're gonna be a rapist or murderer or be a sufferer of that, even if you did know the RIGHT THING to do is to keep that sensitive information to yourself because YOU ARE NOT GOD AND ASTROLOGY DOESN'T GIVE YOU THE POWER FOR THAT. Only God knows our end.

Here's one for you...in my natal i have:

Sun TRINE pluto....AND

Sun OPPOSING neptune

What astrological GENERALISATIONS and STEREOTYPES can you gather from that, not knowing a thing about me, not even my sex or age??

I guess thats why your not a reknowed astrologist who does professional readings for ppl who really trust and admire your ethical interpretations, which are full of integrity for 100s of dollar, like the good ones who are booked out for months.

posted December 05, 2009 02:33 PM         

Simple as that, sorry but truth hurts but thats my sun trining pluto there...but id really LOVE to hear what your generalisations (sorry, i *meant* "interpretation") are

posted December 05, 2009 03:33 PM         

Rape and death is sensitive topic, esp to me so to be discussing it so casually like its a personality aspect rather than a serious issue and putting something so traumatic and painful down to something as simple as aspects and transits is a real disrespect to to rape victims and ppl who have been affected by such topics. And yeah, im sure a very small percentage MAY have checked out their charts but i highly doubt that many would look to their charts for answers, as it was previously suggested.

posted December 05, 2009 04:25 PM         

I understand why you are taking this so personally and it saddens me you had to go through that experience.
You are very courageous sharing it on a public forum

Tragic events and experiences happen all the time to most of us but please understand this is an astrology forum where everyone comes to learn and share knowledge and I don't think anyone meant any malice at all. Research is how we learn right? So I think that's what was being shared here.

The truth is that everything is written in the natal chart, everything can be seen that is meant to be seen.

I wish you peace and healing

posted December 05, 2009 05:45 PM         

I didn't even start this thread. I never tell anyone thay will be in danger, even when they have that transit, I don't say you will be a victim. I just tell them to be careful because it's a well known fact that it's a dangerous transit. It's even a warning on astro's daily horoscope when you have that one.

I never said that it means the person will be a victim of rape or murder, but that it's a possible violent transit. No one is saying it's a personality defect at all. It just shows the possibility of a violent encounter and gives an explanation as to why this happened at a particular time. The victim is NEVER to blame. I don't care what they did or didn't do. The victim is never guilty of anything. Ever! If anything, a transit that is dangerous would take all the blame off the victim, imo.

I am not a professional astrologer because I don't wan to be one. If I wanted to be one, I am sure I could be a good one, because I would be very serious about it and put everything I have into it. And actually, I don't want to be one because I don't feel comfortable telling people what may happen, because I am afraid I'd be wrong -- no one is 100% accurate, no matter how good they are, no matter what field.

With psychology, the way you diagnose a schizophrenic IS by what they say and how they act. Same for all mental disorders, so I don't know how you can properly treat your patients. They need to know their diagnosis so they can deal with it and comply with the therapy. Mental disorders are not diagnosed by labs and tests but by interview, and the patient is always informed of their diagnosis...so I am a bit confused with how you treat your patients. Maybe this is a projection of your Sun opposite neptune -- you like to be in denial about things that affect you and assume your patients want the same....? That is one manifestation of sun opp neptune. The ego (sun) can't deal with real life and logic (neptune). Hey, you asked. Twice.

As for victims of rape being upset due to this topic: 1. I didn't start it. I just
said what some dangerous transits are that can indicate it. 2. I have the utmost compassion for rape vicims and any vistims of violence, which is why I want to pursue a career helping them.

I am sorry you were raped and that this topic upsets you so much. I really am.

As for astrology not being able to tell this, it can a lot of times. Astrologers research victims of crimes to see if they can find any common themes. That is why on astro they have a research database that lists charts of victims of crime according to the crime, so that they can be studied. I think you find this offensive, and I am sure you aren't the only one, but it's a reality. This is possibly another indication of your sun opp neptune. That isn't a bad thing, it's just who you are, and it is reflected in this aspect. You are an idealist.

Your forcefulness of your argument of your beliefs in reflected in your sun trine pluto. I have it too.

Lonake,

That book sounds interesting. I definitely want to read it. Thank you.