posted January 14, 2010 07:49 AM         

This also probably makes me more of the technical type, I am always struggling to make my interpretations more flowing and personal. I expect the eclipse tomorrow exatly squaring my Mercury will force the issue. I am supposed to be doing an interp for a client right now but just can't get into it.

I do want to know the actual workings of astrology. Before I started into astrology I was a scientist (Biology), so naturally want to know how things work. This is the reason I have abandoned the signs and all the rules that follow then (rulership, dignities etc). I see now reason why they should work. I believe that astrology works via energy, like everything else. I don't see the source of energy in the signs. I do see the source of energy in the stars.

posted January 14, 2010 01:22 PM         

I know that nobody said that I should believe in it. You're telling me the obvious.
I didn't need to be told that like I am stupid. I didn't even think bringing that up was necessary.

I did believe in and use Zodiac Astrology over 11 years.

I started believing in Astrology on June 29, 1998 after learning about moonsigns. Before that, I was a skeptic of Astrology. As I delved into it,studying it intensely,experimenting,giving people readings, my belief increased more and more.

I believe that Zodiac Astrology might seem to work because of Forer Effect.

As for my own chart, I don't believe that I relate to my chart because of it.

I realize that I can probably relate to my tropical zodiac signs because of other things

Sun in Scorpio (the sign ruled by Mars and the transneptunian dwarf planet,Pluto)
can be explained by
Sun in cazimi (in the heart of the Sun) with transneptunian dwarf planet candidate/plutino Ixion in regards to great depth
Sun conjunct transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Quaoar in regards to great depth
Sun oppose transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Sedna in Right Ascension in regards to great depth, Inuit Goddess of the Underworld (Adlivun) located at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean
Sun quincunx transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Varuna in Right Ascension in regards to great depth,Indian God had dominion over the drowned,judged souls
Sun contraparallel transneptunian dwarf planet candidate/plutino Orcus in regards to great depth, Etruscan God Ruler of the Underworld
Sun oppose/conjunct the nodes of transneptunian dwarf planet Eris in regards to great depth
Sun-Pluto in Golden Section Aspect in regards to great depth

Mercury in Scorpio (the sign ruled by Mars and the transneptunian dwarf planet,Pluto)
can be explained by
Mercury parallel Neptune in regards to sensitivity
Mercury square transneptunian dwarf planet,Makemake in regards to great depth
Mercury biquintile transneptunian dwarf planet, Eris in regards to great depth
Mercury oppose/conjunct Heliocentric Mars Nodes in regards to passion
Mercury sextile South Geocentric Pluto Node in regards to great depth
Mercury-Pluto in Golden Section Aspect in regards to great depth

Venus in Scorpio (the sign ruled by Mars and the transneptunian dwarf planet,Pluto)
can be explained by
Venus square Mars in regards to passion
Venus parallel Neptune in regards to sensitivity
Venus trine transneptunian dwarf planet candidate/plutino Orcus in regards to great depth
Venus sextile transneptunian dwarf planet Haumea in Right Ascension in regards to great depth
Venus quincunx transneptunian dwarf planet Eris in Right Ascension in regards to great depth
Venus quincunx centaur Nessus - links the orbits of Saturn and Pluto..can be lusty,jealous,possessive
Venus trine Geocentric North Pluto Node

Moon in Pisces (the sign ruled by Jupiter and Neptune)
can be explained by
Moon square Jupiter in Right Ascension in regards to idealism,faith,optimism
Moon square Neptune in regards idealism,imagination,inspiration,high sensitivity
Moon square transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Varuna named after Indian God of the Oceans in regards to great depth
sextile transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Sedna named after the Inuit Goddess of the Oceans in regards to great depth
Moon conjunct centaur Pholus in Right Ascension - Pholus links Saturn and Neptune.....I also have Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint
Moon trine transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Quaoar in regards to great depth
Moon trine transneptunian dwarf planet/plutino in regards to great depth
Moon semisquare transneptunian dwarf planet Eris in regards to great depth

Ascendant in Virgo (the sign ruled by Mercury which also rules Gemini)
can be explained by
Ascendant sextile Mercury in Right Ascension in regards to nervous energy,analytical
Ascendant parallel centaur Chiron - some astrologers suggest Chiron as ruler of Virgo, Chiron was a healer
Ascendant contraparallel asteroid,Hygeia named after the Greek Goddess of Health

Midheaven in Gemini (the sign ruled by Mercury which also rules Virgo)
Midheaven conjunct Pallas - asteroid named after Pallas Athena, goddess of wisdom and warfare, it seems to act like an additional Mercury)

Mars in Aquarius
can be explained by
Mars sesquiquadrate Uranus in regards to unconventional,independence
North Geocentric Mars Node trine Uranus in regards to unconventional,independence
Mars square Neptune - can be strange with it being hard outerplanet aspect
Mars oppose transneptunian dwarf planet Makemake - can be nonconformist, as a transneptunian, it doesn't fit in with the planets, so doesn't fit in with the mainstream

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 14, 2010 02:20 PM         

This next one is about the sidereal zodiac: http://www.onereed.com/articles/sidereal-tropical.html "The great astrologer Johannes Kepler had a solution to this problem - he basically abandoned the zodiac and built his astrological system around the aspects between the planets. He thought that the zodiac itself was merely a human geometry exercise and primarily served to aid the memory of astrologers as they computed aspects in their heads."

Yep....Kepler didn't believe in signs nor houses. He denounced them as Arabic Sorcery. He questioned why are there 12 houses. He questioned why can't they be less than 12 or more than 12.

He opened the can of worms in regards to minor aspects. He devised the quintile(1/5),biquintile 2/5),sesquiquadrate (5/8) based on fiveness for musical harmonic theory. He opened the door to Harmonic Astrology. The Ptolemaic Aspects correlated with Aries,Gemini,Cancer,Leo,Libra,Sagittarius,Capricorn,Aquarius the Inconjuncts (semisextile,quincunx) correlated with Taurus,Pisces,Virgo,and Scorpio)

I had thought about working with the actual Constellation Zodiac.

I felt that using tropical zodiac was limiting me to what I am. The tropical zodiac being connected to the Earth's seasons and not with the constellations.

I thought that using the constellation zodiac would be going beyond those limitations and embracing my cosmic self, acknowledging my connection to the cosmos,the stars, mythology of the constellations and stars.

One of my problems with using the tropical zodiac is that it is a northern hemisphere season based zodiac. It ignores people
that are born in southern hemisphere. I don't believe in using a northern hemisphere season based zodiac for people born in southern hemisphere. I had thought about using the Constellation Zodiac for them.

I never did like to be pinned down by my tropical Scorpio sunsign.

my tropical zodiac planet/point in constellations with any stars in those constellations

Sun in tropical Scorpio in constellation of Virgo (it's not in Libra like it is in Sidereal Libra)
Moon in tropical Pisces in constellation of Aquarius, conjunct alpha Aquarius star Sadalmelik, conjunct theta Aquarius star,Ancha
Mercury in tropical Scorpio in constellation of Libra conjunct beta Libra star Zuben Elschamali, conjunct Nu Libra star Zuben Hakrabi
Venus in tropical Scorpio in constellation of Libra
Mars in tropical Aquarius in constellation of Aquarius
Jupiter in tropical Sagittarius in constellation of Scorpio
Saturn in tropical Gemini in constellation of Taurus
Uranus in tropical Libra in constellation of Virgo
Neptune in tropical Sagittarius in constellation of Scorpio
Ascendant in tropical Virgo in constellation of Leo conjunct theta Leo star Coxa
Descendant in tropical Pisces in constellation of Aquarius
Midheaven in tropical Gemini in constellation of Taurus
Imum Coeli in tropical Sagittarius in constellation of Ophiuchus (it's not in Scorpio like it is in Sidereal Scorpio)

my most pronounced constellation,star influences
are Aquarius - with both Moon and Mars in it, my Moon conjunct 2 stars in Aquarius including the alpha star....Moon is also conjunct gamma Aquarius star Sadalbachia in Right Ascension
are Libra - with both Mercury and Venus in it, my Mercury conjunct 2 stars in Libra including the beta star...Venus is also conjunct the beta star in Right Ascension

so I am very Aquarian,Libran

The zodiac is an arbitrary design based on a belief system. It depends on the cultures
Western Astrologers mainly use the tropical zodiac. Some of them use sidereal zodiac. Vedic Astrologers use the sidereal zodiac with nakshatras. Celtic Astrologers use 13 zodiac signs.

Here is an article in how the sky was divided by various cultures. Very interesting stuff.

Sumerian 6 Sign Zodiac and Mayan Calendar 360-Day-Tun-Years http://www.timeemits.com/HoH_Articles/Sumerian_6_Sign_Zodiac_and_Mayan_Calendar_360.htm

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 14, 2010 02:40 PM         

I got into astrology at a really young age, seriously like at 7 or 8 years old, thanks to having a wiccan/pagan mother.

Obviously my knowledge was only of the tropical zodiac and all I knew really was that I was a Leo Sun with Pisces Moon, but I didn't even figure out what my ASC. was until I was older. For the longest time I thought I had Capricorn ASC. according to some chart in some dated astrology book from the 1970's.

Then I discovered this forum and astrodienst, when I was 16! From that point on I've accumulated a vast collection of astrology books and now I'm a skeptic as far as the tropical zodiac.

Why?

Like Glaucus, I believe zodiac signs are short-sighted and a bit shallow the way signs are generalized. I also tend to stereotype myself in regards to Sun signs, which I'm really trying to avoid and I'm also trying to stop asking people what their Sun sign is when I'm drunk...

Linda Goodman would probably be a little annoyed by this, because she has written entire books just based solely on the Sun sign, and no offense to her, but they tend to be very fantastical and dramatic, anyone read love-signs by any chance?

posted January 14, 2010 08:28 PM         

My aspects, within 3 degree orb or less:

Sun (8' Leo)
-Sun inconjunct Moon

-Sun conjunct Mercury

- Sun trine Mars

-Sun inconjunct Neptune

-Sun semi-sextile Vesta

-Sun square Pluto

-Sun opposite Pallas

-Sun conjunct Orcus (help me interpret this)

-Sun square Sedna (and this one)

*There is a reason I can't relate to having Leo Sun, with these aspects!

Moon (4 11' Pisces)

-Moon inconjunct Mercury

-Moon square Jupiter

-Moon sextile Neptune

-Moon trine Pluto

-Moon trine Lilith

Mercury (4 '26 Leo)

-Mercury novile Venus

-Mercury trine Mars

-Mercury sextile Jupiter

-Mercury Bi quintile Uranus

-Mercury square Pluto

-Mercury semi-sextile Chiron

-Mercury trine Ceres (help interpret this)

Venus (24 '41 Gemini)

-Venus opposition Saturn

-Venus opposition Uranus

-Venus sesquisquare Pluto

-Venus semi-square Orcus (help me interpret)

-Venus conjunct Varuna (help me interpret)

Mars ( 6 '50 Aries)

-Mars square Neptune

-Mars square Lilith

-Mars trine Orcus (help me)

-Mars sesquisquare Quaour (help me interpret)

Jupiter (1 '28 Gemini and Asc. Ruler)

-Jupiter bi quintile Neptune

-Jupiter sextile Ceres (please don't tell me I'll have 5 children, ceres is already in my 5th H in whole sign system as well)

-Jupiter semi-square Eris (help me interpret this one)

Pholus is conjunct my DSC. by 3 degrees (I'm curious about that as well...)

posted January 14, 2010 08:31 PM         

check out Philip Sedgwick's site

he has preliminary keywords for the transneptunian objects and centaurs
http://www.philipsedgwick.com/

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 16, 2010 12:43 AM         

I'm really digging this thread!

posted January 16, 2010 12:43 AM         

I'm really digging this thread!

posted January 16, 2010 01:48 AM         

awesome!

Yeah...he's my favorite astrologer!

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 17, 2010 04:18 AM         

"Individuals who had such illuminating cosmic visions suddenly understood that what is happening in the material world is formed and informed by archetypal principles, beings, and events existing in dimensions of reality that are inaccessible for our everyday consciousness. They also saw that the dynamics of the archetypal world is systematically correlated with the movements of the planets, their angular relationships, and their relative positions to the fixed stars. This led to a completely new understanding of astrology, its origins, and paramount importance. It became clear to them that the source of astrology were global encompassing visions of the workings of the Kosmos and not tedious accumulation of individual observations of correlations between events in the world and celestial bodies." Stanislav Grof, M.D.