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Author Topic:   Is astrology an art or simply playing god?
belgz
Knowflake

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From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2010 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
I read today that Slyvester Stallones mother Jackie Stallone (an astrologer) told her son what day to have his baby, Sylvester also is a strong believer of astrology, and they performed a C-section on this auspicious day and it turns out they had a child that was diagnosed with severe austism at an early age.

Another child was also was in hospital at just 2 and a half months having open heart surgery.

quote:
Stallone grew up Catholic and stopped going to church as his acting career progressed. He began to rediscover his childhood faith when his daughter was born ill in 1996, and is now a churchgoing Catholic
- Wikipedia

I guess sometimes you just have to leave well alone.

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belgz
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From: Sydney, Australia
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posted February 28, 2010 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message

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Ami Ann
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posted February 28, 2010 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message
.
I can see how someone might try to control something like a birth and that would be the absolute wrong thing to do.
I think Astrology reveals God. To me, it does.
Ami

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raspberri
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posted February 28, 2010 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message
Astrology does not reveal God to me..
God is way more free than analyzing charts and stuff.

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raspberri
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posted February 28, 2010 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message
I love how Jupiter is right on his Moon/MC in Libra. It's emphasizing the 8th and 9th houses, which means faith will be a big part of his life.

That sounds really creepy about the astrology(c-section) thing tho.

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belgz
Knowflake

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From: Sydney, Australia
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posted February 28, 2010 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
I think he learnt a lesson. You have to leave things in gods hands. I know all of us at some point are playing with transits, or trying to pick a good wedding date or even when to have a child but I just realised how wrong it is..

God shows his presence in funny ways. His chart doesnt even show problems with children. Or a heavy responsibility around them.

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raspberri
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posted February 28, 2010 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message
I think he learned a lesson too, a hard one!

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changchiu
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posted February 28, 2010 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for changchiu     Edit/Delete Message
I think astrolgy is a tool and learning to know the god,power,force-universe what you call..
So we can care to look but insisting or too much energy can spoil the things..What we want or organise somethings ,then we should wait and care other things..
I lived to this so much..When I insist it doesn not occur,when I want with my heart and then I raised above it I got it..
I think universe gave us astrology to know and understand miracles in our us..To look at ourselves..

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raspberri
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posted February 28, 2010 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message
I have to say that any person willing to risk their babies life because of astrology certainly isn't that bright.

They were interrupting the natural biological process.

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Glaucus
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From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 28, 2010 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
Autism isn't necessarily bad though.

Autistic weaknesses can be corrected through intervention therapies.

same with other neurodivergent weaknesses

Dr. Temple Grandin has autism. It's not Aspergers. As a little child, she couldn't communicate in words like other children. She would hum and scream. She was even recommended to be institutionalized.
http://www.templegrandin.com/


It really depends on the type of autism. We don't know what type of autism it is. We don't know what caused the autism. There are various things that cause autism. It can be family heredity. It can be spontaneous genetic mutations. It can be heavy metal poisoning like from lead. It can be from vaccines (well..some people believe that,but there isn't any strong scientic evidence to support that, but then again..there isn't any for Astrology).

a genetic autism will be different from an autism caused by things that cause brain damage like heavy metal poisoning,vaccines.

Autistic intelligence is highly underestimated too and not just by neurotypicals but also by neurodivergents including by many Aspergers people. Many nonverbal autistics are a lot more intelligent than they are viewed as. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17680932 http://www.news-medical.net/news/2007/08/06/28489.aspx


now that aside

It's possible that the soul chose that moment of birth, and the parents just agree with it.

Some believe that we choose our parents,environment,circumstances before we incarnate in physical form. It is believed that the idea is to learn lessons from experience. Some astrologers (especially evolutionary astrologers like Jeffrey Wolf Green) believe that. The evolutionay astrologers believe that it can be shown in the natal chart.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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Astra
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posted February 28, 2010 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astra     Edit/Delete Message
That's unfortunate. You shouldn't get C-sections unless it's necessary, and I'd hardly consider astrology to be a good reason to schedule a C-section.

He would've been better off just letting the baby come into the world naturally. Astrology can only point at the potential of something happening, but it cannot specifically tell you that such-and-such thing will happen on a specific day. Transits have such a wide variety of effects.

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MyVirgoMask
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From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 28, 2010 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I can't believe how stupid people can be sometimes.

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changchiu
Knowflake

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posted February 28, 2010 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for changchiu     Edit/Delete Message
Glaucus;
Yesterday I attended a seminar.Taht was very good for me..As you mentioned,we are souls and choose the bodies even this planet..
Even though some bright souls come to earth as in handicapped baby to teach love,patience and life his/her family..
That impressed too much..
Seminar was about 2012 and new world

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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From: New York, NY
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posted February 28, 2010 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Astrology is one of many resources provided to be used anyway you choose. If someone chooses to abuse it for power, that's their choice. People abuse money everyday for power.

Then a bigger argument ensues about believing in a God or believing that you have God in you, therefore you are partly a God. You must remember, there are many people on this website who have radically different spiritual and cultural beliefs and it's a possibility that they do allow God or a God to guide them in their arts/sciences/literature, car repair, architecture, astrology, tarot, runes, etc. every moment of their lives.

And the Sylvester Stallone story, who is to say that his mother's choice didn't help to save the life of the child. Perhaps the child could have died if she didn't choose a good time for the birth. I also think that C-sections are performed for more serious reasons, they've been chemically inducing births without having to do a C-section for a long time now.

To be fair, I've heard of certain celebrity women who elected to have C-sections instead of vaginal births for vain reasons, but I take each celebrity story with a grain of salt.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 28, 2010 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"Glaucus;
Yesterday I attended a seminar.Taht was very good for me..As you mentioned,we are souls and choose the bodies even this planet..
Even though some bright souls come to earth as in handicapped baby to teach love,patience and life his/her family..
That impressed too much..
Seminar was about 2012 and new world"

I agree

I believe that people with special education needs are like that.

They teach not only love,patience, but also tolerance and acceptance.

Many people with special education needs help others with special education needs.

Many special education students grow to be special education teachers.

Like Dr. Temple Grandin has autism, and she is a big Autistic advocate. Autism was thought as being a total handicap until she came along. She wrote the book,THINKING IN PICTURES which explained about the autistic mind that she had. It helped change a lot of perceptions about autism. Before she wrote the book, Autism was viewed as a death sentence.

Henry Winkler who is Dyslexic writes books for Dyslexics

Psychiatrists Dr. Ned Hallowell and John Ratey have ADHD, and they write books about ADHD,help raise awareness about ADHD,especially in adulthood.


Neurodivergent with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD Mary Colley became a neurodiversity advocate and is a co-founder of Developmental Adult Neuro-Diversity Association in the UK which is made to help raise awareness about neurodivergence in adults and to help people understand that neurodivergence is not something that is outgrown.


Chris Burke has Down Syndrome, and he is a spokesperson for Down Syndrome. He has had remarkable life in show business.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 28, 2010 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
Geocosmic Valentine,

Great points!

I agree with you.

I am a pantheist, and so I believe that all is God. If I believe that all is God, then I believe that everything in the sky is God - all the heavenly bodies. I believe that Astrology and God aren't separate. I believe that using Astrology is reading God's messages. Some view Astrology as a divination. Divine is root word for it. Divine as in godly.

but

I don't expect anybody else to believe what I believe in. A lot of diversity,and that's fine with me.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

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From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 28, 2010 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
It's up to the baby when it decides when to be born lol.
Unless there's something wrong with it physically, just leave it alone in there and let NATURE take its course.

I think a great astrologer would know better than to start screwing with when someone 'should' be born.

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changchiu
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posted February 28, 2010 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for changchiu     Edit/Delete Message
Glaucus;
I agree with you..
Also I believe we came from the same energy..

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 28, 2010 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
" up to the baby when it decides when to be born lol. "

Exactly

it can be argued that the soul that incarnates as the baby decided the time that the parents chose for it to be born even though it was Ceasarean section. It could be a synchronicity. It could be maybe there was a telepathic communication between the soul and its future parents. It could been a clairaudience,clairvoyance,clairsentience,claircognizance. It could have been a message that they were told in a dream. Of course, it could be that they were told through Astrology too.


I am a person that was born 1 month early after a 23 hour labor. If I wasn't induced, my mom's labor would have been longer. I was told that I didn't want to come out. Maybe they are right. Maybe I chose to stay in my mother's womb longer to fit with the natal chart that I have now.

Maybe my soul chose the time that I was born even though my birth was induced.


People say that everything happens for a reason.


Raymond


------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

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From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 28, 2010 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Exactly, Raymond...I was going to say that I also feel a soul chooses when to be born.

I was born almost 4 weeks late and they had to induce labor. 16 hours later I still wasn't budging so they had to remove me with forceps lol. I guess that's a Taurus Mars for you...we HATE being rushed

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

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From: New York, NY
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posted February 28, 2010 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
MVM,

You beat me by a week. I was 3 weeks late, but they didn't have to induce. I wouldn't trade my chart for anything, I can see how I would choose the chart I have.

The medical community doesn't allow doesn't allow babies to be late anymore.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 28, 2010 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
MVM,

Cool...we have some thing in common

but damn

forceps

I read nightmare stories about that

My exgf Meghann told me that she was forceps delivery too,and they broke one of her collar bones. She was in pain,crying a lot and they didn't know why for some time.

talk about birth trauma!

I wonder if it was her Moon in Scorpio sandwiched between Pluto and Saturn. Her Moon was conjunct her Saturn-Pluto conjunction. Her Moon conjunct the Saturn/Pluto midpoint which is said to be Nessus-sensitive. Her Moon was also square a Nessus-Orcus conjunction. She had Moon sextile Neptune. So her Moon had at least one soft aspect.

she was born a month late


as for me

my mom told me that I was a lazy baby. She told me I fell asleep during labor,and so they had to induce. She told me that when I was born, I didn't cry. I was silent that people got scared. They poked me,and so I cried. She told me when they put me down, it didn't take long for me sleep. It was said that I was the only one of the babies that was sleeping in the fetal position.


I was told by one woman that she had a forceps delivery,and it damaged a nerve in her head. She had speech problems.

I read the same thing happened to Sylvester Stallone too!


I wouldn't want anybody using forceps to deliver my children.


Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

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From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 28, 2010 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, you fell asleep during the delivery, Raymond??? Hey, the birth process is tiring and traumatic for both mother AND baby !!

I don't think I had any any damage from the salad spoons, but I on occasion I run my hands over my hairline and feel a very, very small dent there, which shocked me the first time I noticed it. It's very subtle though.

GeoCosmic, that's interesting that they don't allow late births anymore. I didn't
know that. I don't know how well that sits with me in general... it's a bit too...efficient, or something. Like an assembly line LOL. I think it goes with the territory of the world we live in these days though...rush rush rush

I was born during some soccer World Cup in Cairo...! The doctor induced labor and kept running in and out of the room and into the lobby to check the game on the tv ....Egyptians take their soccer very seriously. Births happen all the time, every day. Winning the World Cup doesn't

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

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posted February 28, 2010 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
The reason they do it is because the amniotic fluid has an exact expiration date of 9 months. At that moment the fluid ceases to be a life giving fluid and becomes toxic. The child's liver cannot process dead amniotic fluid. For example, when I was delivered I was jaundiced which means I was yellow from my liver being overtaxed by trying to clean out the toxins in my system. It was pretty common back in the day, but they don't allow it to happen anymore. No more Jaundice from late births allowed.

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amowls*
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From: richmond va
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posted February 28, 2010 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
Since I am too lazy to read the whole story of the two births, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I doubt a doctor would let a c-section happen if it was deemed too dangerous for the fetuses. Perhaps autism & heart problems in the babies were inevitable.

In any case, I would never ever use astrology to 1) look for romantic partners or 2) mess with a child's birth. However, like I did for my mother, if presented with an option to schedule something (like a wedding or surgery), I do look at transits. I did it for my mom's breast cancer surgery. Of course I chose a good date out of a possible list of dates. I didn't choose a date without consideration of other factors having nothing to do with astrology (like waiting 5 years for the BEST date, at which point my mother would be dead).

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