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Author Topic:   Heliocentric synastry (with asteroids)
DD
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posted March 08, 2010 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert Blashke wrote this about the heliocentric zodiac:


"This Sun-centered
model generates a horoscope that symbolizes one's Christ Consciousness, or one's
Higher Self. This chart, without a Sun position, operates at a level of reality where there is no individual ego, but only one's Higher Self serving a larger purpose, such as Love, Truth or Beauty. This writer recommends viewing the Heliocentric nativity
as representing all that is virtuous within the individual, as if he were operating from
pure Spirit."
http://www.earthwalkastrology.com/images/Secrets%20of%20the%20Zodiac.pdf


So I was thinking, if the heliocentric zodiac is indicative of the Higher Self or spiriual dimension, then it should show strong connections in the comparision between soulmates (as I think we agree that soulmates are a very spiritual concept; at least this is the one thing I have read in everything I read on this matter, no matter if here on LL or in articles, and it is in agreement with what I think).

So I was comparing some heliocentric synastries with each other (only three, because, honestly, it is a lot of work); I compared only helio to helio, cause I think that the Higher Selves of soulmates are in talk with each other, from spirit to spirit (of course the cross connections to tropical are valid, too).


These were my parameters of investigation:

aspects:
conjunction, opposition, trine, sextile, square, quinkunx

orbs:
conjunction and opposition: 3 degrees
trine and square: 2 degrees
sextile and quinkunx: 1 degree


I was looking for:

a) direct soulmate pair aspects

I considered as soulmate pairs:
Jupiter - Juno
Eros - Psyche
Amor - Psyche
Pluto - Persephone / Proserpina
Pluto - Valentine (not a real soulmate pairing, but as IQ stated, it seems to be a strong connection)
Isis - Osiris

I added to that KARMA and ANGEL (to me Angel indicates Higher Self guidance per se, so I couldn`t leave it out of the Higher Self chart now, could I?)


b) linked soulmate pairings

Example:
His Pluto conjunct her Venus
his Venus trine her Persephone

- this would be a Pluto-Persephone soulmate aspect over Venus; of course the linking planet would influence the interpretation


I considered as "linking objects":
planets, Chiron, Amor, Valentine
( I did NOT consider links through Isis for example, as Isis is strongest as a pair of the soulmate pairing, whereas Amor seems to be strong and significant on its own, a generic love asteroid; maybe Eros, Psyche and Juno could serve as linking objects, too)


With the linked soulmate pairings I only counted those, where at least ONE of the aspects was a conjunction, opposition, trine or sextile.


c) Double Whammies


d) patterns
With that I mean patterns that have a conjunction as a "hook". So I look up the conjunctions and see what aspects are being made to that conjunction.
Here I didn`t count all the aspects, but tried to grasp the emphasis.
For example: if I saw a majority of sextiles or trines coupled with the conjunction I left out the occasional square (even though it would be interesting to interprete).
And if I saw mainly oppositions and squares, I left out an occasional sextile.
I wanted to see a clear emphasis.

Patterns which involve soulmate pairings seem to me to be the strongest, especially if there are many positive aspects included in that pattern.

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mermaid26
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posted March 08, 2010 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mermaid26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like your thinking and will have to investigate. So the harmonic balance of oppositions are the happy medium, victorious in mastering the lower selves. A triumphant reward for lots of hard work. A reason to keep striving toward ascension.

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DD
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posted March 08, 2010 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(1)Robert Browning - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

She was an elder, sickly poetress, who was still living with her tyrant father and had resigned to an isolated life.
He admired her work, wrote to her; they became friends, but quickly he started to make her avances and wanted to marry her. At first she was reluctant, as he was a young man and she saw herself as a sick elder woman, a "hopeless case". He didn`t give up though, and they married against her father`s will and went abroad, where they lived happily for 16 years, until she died.
As far as I know he never remarried.

a) direct soulmate pairs

his Pluto square her Proserpina
his Eros trine her Psyche

b) linked soulmate pairings

his Venus conjunct her ERos
his Psyche conjunct her Venus

his Pluto opposite her Eros
his Psyche opposite her Pluto

his Pluto opposite her Juno
his Jupiter trine her Pluto

his Valentine square her Osiris
his Isis trine her Valentine


c) Double Whammies

his Juno trine her Angel
his Angel conjunct her Juno

d)Patterns

his Venus conjunct her Eros
his Venus trine her Chiron
his pLuto opposite her Eros
his Angel conjunct her Eros
his Valentine trine her Eros
his Amor conjunct her Chiron
his Pluto opposite her Juno
his Valentine trine her Juno
his Angel conjunct her Juno

This is really an ENORMOUS pattern with all these planets / asteroids tightly and positively aspecting each other!
His Venus and Amor are in positive aspect to her Chiron - and indeed his love had a healing influence on her. During the time they were together her health was much better than before.
As I just read he was "a one-man refutation of virtually all of her anxieties."
His Pluto in aspect to all of this might indicate his passion and the way he was transformed and transformed her as well, and also an indicator that he would not give up.
Her Eros and Juno in aspect to his planets seem to show that this marriage, which was pervaded by creativity, romantic as well as sexual love contributed much to her healing.
And it also was a clear sign that this would not stay a platonic admiration from afar.
With his Angel, Amor and Valentine there, he loved her unconditionally, BUT with his Pluto he was also a very passionate man, who knew what he wanted I think.


his Psyche conjunct her Venus
his Psyche opposite her Pluto
his Neptune square her Venus
his Neptune square her Pluto

Mmh, could it be he overidolized her a little bit?

Both of them had Venus-Pluto-aspects in their heliocentric natals.
Both were oppositions; his was about 4 degrees, hers was as exact as can be.
Both natal Venus-Pluto aspects were intervowen into strong patterns.

So I think their natural ability for passionate and deep transforming love as well as devotion to creativity / art was freed by their coming together.

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Lara
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posted March 08, 2010 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok. You know how i always mess these up but here goes

SOUL MATE ASPECTS
His JUPITER opp my JUNO 3’
His PSYCHE square my AMOR 2’
His AMOR cj my PSYCHE 1’

LINKED
his VALENTINE cj my EROS 1’
his EROS sextile my VALENTINE 3’

His AMOR cj her PSYCHE 1’
His PSYCHE quincunx her AMOR 1’

his EROS quincunx her KARMA 1’
his KARMA cj her PSYCHE 2’

her EROS sextile his PERSEPHONE 2’
her PERSEPHONE cj his PSYCHE 2’

his PSYCHE square her ANGEL 2’
his ANGEL square her EROS 3

PATTERNS
His VALENTINE cj her EROS
His VALENTINE quincunx her PROSERPINA
His PROSPERINA square her PLUTO
His PROSERPINA square her CHIRON
His PROSERPINA trine her EROS
His PERSEPHONE sextile her EROS
His VENUS quincunx her CHIRON
His JUPITER sextile her CHIRON
His PSYCHE square her ANGEL
His PSYCHE quincunx her AMOR
His PSYCHE trine her PERSEPHONE
His PSYCHE trine her PLUTO


DW's
his VALENTINE cj her EROS
his EROS sextile her VALENTINE

his AMOR cj her PSYCHE
his PSYCHE quincunx her AMOR

his PLUTO sextile her PSYCHE
his PSYCHE trine her PLUTO

his VALENTINE cj her EROS
his EROS sextile her VALENTINE

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DD
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posted March 08, 2010 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lara,

I was just starting researching this theory (important pairings in heliocentric zodiac in long lasting relationships, that are often referred to as soulmates).

I don΄t even know if it is a valid way to interprete, even though in the one case I posted it seems to make sense.


Anyway, let me look over your list:


"SOUL MATE ASPECTS
His JUPITER opp my JUNO 3’
His PSYCHE square my AMOR 2’
His AMOR cj my PSYCHE 1’"

Those are in heliocentric, right?
I like the Amor-Psyche conjunction, it seems it is an underestimated aspect, as I have seen it pretty often in so called "soulmate-couples".

"LINKED
his VALENTINE cj my EROS 1’
his EROS sextile my VALENTINE 3’"
That is not a linked soulmate aspects; besides the orb of the sextile is too wide - and yes I am strict with the orbs in this case, cause if I allow wide orbs for one couple, there are no longer the same conditions / rules applicable, and thus the whole research will be "out of balance".

It is a very neat DW you have there, though.

"His AMOR cj her PSYCHE 1’
His PSYCHE quincunx her AMOR 1’"
Another nice DW, even though I never know what to think of the quinkunx. I tend to not consider it most of the times, unless it is part of a DW with another strong aspect, like in your case.


"his EROS quincunx her KARMA 1’
his KARMA cj her PSYCHE 2’"
That is a linked soulmate aspect. Aye!


"her EROS sextile his PERSEPHONE 2’
her PERSEPHONE cj his PSYCHE "
I do not consider Persephone as a "linking" object, as Persephone usually is seen only and strongly as a part of a soulmate aspect, but doesn`t seem to have as strong individual influence in love synastries as Valentine for example.
(Of course Persephone always relates to abductions and "coming of age" processes and even witchcraft)

"his PSYCHE square her ANGEL 2’
his ANGEL square her EROS 3"
Sorry, the second orb is too wide.
WEll, but even if I considered it, I am not sure about how to interprete squares in the Helio.


"PATTERNS
For my research I only considered patterns consisting of the planets, Chiron, Karma, Angel, Amor, Valentine, Eros, Psyche and Juno (as these seem to be very significant on "their own" in synastries). I also roughly divided between harmonious patterns (conjunction, trine, sextile with an occasional opposition) and challenging patterns (conjunction, opposition, square).
So I probably would put the most emphasis on


His VALENTINE cj her EROS
His JUPITER sextile her CHIRON
His PSYCHE trine her PLUTO"

But to be honest that doesn`t really look like a pattern like I had it in mind.
What I had in mind was that all the planets / asteroids in a pattern are aspecting each other.

Like he would be having natally aspects between Jupiter, Psyche and Valentine, and you would be having natally aspects between Eros, Chiron and Pluto and those would aspect each other.
BUT in a pattern usually if his Valentine conjunct your Eros AND if his Valentine is aspecting his own Psyche, then his Psyhce would also be aspecting your Eros, do you understand what I mean?
The only way that it does NOT aspect your Eros, too, would be either that there is no natal aspect between Psyche and Valentine in his chart (then we probably do not have a pattern or "closed circuit" though) OR the orbs may be a little too wide.


Let me give you the exact positions in Robert Brownings and Elisabeth Barret Browning`s case:


The harmonious pattern I found was:

his Venus conjunct her Eros
his Venus trine her Chiron
his pLuto opposite her Eros
his Angel conjunct her Eros
his Valentine trine her Eros
his Amor conjunct her Chiron
his Pluto opposite her Juno
his Valentine trine her Juno
his Angel conjunct her Juno

Now the positions were:


his Venus:22 Virgo
his pluto: 18 Pisces
his Angel: 19 Virgo
his Valentine: 19 Taurus
his Amor: 23 Capricorn

her Eros: 19 Virgo
her Chiron: 22 Capricorn
her Juno: 18 Virgo

In the natals some orbs are a bit wider, but all the mentioned synastry aspects are within the orbs I told I would use, some are actually VERY close.


"his PLUTO sextile her PSYCHE
his PSYCHE trine her PLUTO"
I like that one. I mean I love Pluto-Psyche on its own, but as a harmonious DW it must be beautiful.

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jane
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posted March 08, 2010 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Easy to test - how do our souls connect?

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DD
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posted March 08, 2010 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You mean, you and me, Jane?


Your Uranus is shaking me up.


This is my helio chart; if I see it right we have a widish Psyche-Psyche-conjunction in Pisces.


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jane
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posted March 08, 2010 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Wide-ish"? It's only a degree. You're so strict with orbs! Well, maybe you'll be more liberal with that orb once I tell you that in our tropicals we also have Psyche cnj Psyche. The conjuction is in Aqua in Tropical Land.

My Eros is cnj your Flower Pot, as running_bull so aptly named it. That's Juno, right? Ooh baby, you know what I like!

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DD
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posted March 08, 2010 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let`s see:


SOULMATE pairings:

your PLUTO exact sextile my PROSERPINA
your PSYCHE exact trine my AMOR
(your ISIS quinkunx my OSIRIS)


CONJUNCTIONS: (I don`t have time, so this is the short version of the comparision))


Your NEPTUNE conjunct my MERCURY (I KNEW it! You ARE in my head! lol)

your PSYCHE conjunct my PSYCHE, - in PISCES! - more telepathy?


your EROS conjunct my JUNO

your URANUS conjunct my MARS
your URANUS conjunct my VALENTINE

Nice harmonious TRINES - I have a flaw for trines because of the same elements:

your VENUS trines my KARMA exact (Air)
your PLUTO trine my KARMA (Air)-
Grand trine in AIR
This is actually a KITE as your NEPTUNE opposes my KARMA Exactly!

your PSYCHE trine my AMOR exact (water)
your JUNO trine my AMOR exact (water)
your JUNO trine my PSYCHE (water) -
GRAND TRINE

your CHIRON trine my ISIS (earth)

your AMOR trine my JUPITER exact (water)
your AMOR trine my MARS exact (water)-
we have TWO Grand trines in water! Both involve AMOR

your MARS trine my ANGEL


your URANUS trines my JUPITER

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DD
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posted March 08, 2010 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jane,

a transdimensional Psyche-Psyche-conjunction? Oh wow! I did not know that; you kept it a secret, you you Scorpio, you! But I had a hunch, I admit it.


Eros-Juno in ARIES. But do not get too enthusiastic, my SATURN is exactly squaring my JUNO (and in tropical it is an exact trine), which means my SATURN probably puts a dampener onto your Eros.
And if I see it right your EROS is on the Kundalini degree, so I guess it doesn`t want to be "dampened".

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jane
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posted March 08, 2010 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Eros can't be dampened.

Thanks for catching all those aspects! I'll comment after I get a chance to read them more closely.

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Lara
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posted March 08, 2010 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry DD - i always mess these things up - i get too enthusiastic

I'll have to write a longer post tomorrow as i'm on my mobile - lost my computer charger!
(hard to type on this thing)
Thanks for looking at my aspects

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Deux*Antares
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posted March 09, 2010 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deux*Antares     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD, what is the Kundalini degree? Is it a fixed thing like GC and SGC?

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DD
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posted March 09, 2010 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lara,

I understand that about getting enthusiastic. Actually I am really itching to look at the helio comparision with Jude, and these other men I have been having "prophetic dreams" about.

But I fear that would influence my research and make it difficult to stay objective, so I am keeping this for last.

Deux,

I was referring to the Sabian degree. 13-14 ARies, if I am not mistaken, is the SAbian of "a serpent coiling near a man and a woman", and this relates to Kundalini rising.
I guess having ERos there in the helios really emphasises the meaning of EROS in its purest sense.

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jane
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posted March 09, 2010 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD -

Thanks again for doing all the work.

I like those aspect patterns we make! I was going to ask if you look at those in synastry the same as I do, then remembered I can assume you do.

I think the general consensus is that it's the person whose own trine is being turned into a grand trine (etc) who feels the pattern the strongest. But I don't think they're the only one getting something out of the experience. The missing link person feels the importance of the piece she's providing, like it's meant for the other person.

Like in our GT with your Jupiter-Mars and my Amor, my Amor will energize and fulfill your own Jupiter and Mars. So you're going to be feeling really good. *lights DD's cigarrette* Meanwhile I will feel my own Amor energy strongly. I'll feel like I'm meant to express that part of myself with you.

In our other GT, it's an even split. We're both the missing link and the foundation.

The kite's interesting because I have one w/o your chart, but your Karma makes that kite even tighter. If we break it down to the GT, it's your karma to get my Venus and Pluto energies flowing. I guess we could say that the Neptune opp shows how I express those energies to you, in a spiritually loving sorta way? Or obnoxiously delusional, take your pick.

quote:
Oh wow! I did not know that; you kept it a secret, you you Scorpio, you! But I had a hunch, I admit it.

You had a hunch because I'm pretty sure I told you about that before, lol.

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DD
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posted March 09, 2010 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jane,

"I think the general consensus is that it's the person whose own trine is being turned into a grand trine (etc) who feels the pattern the strongest. But I don't think they're the only one getting something out of the experience. The missing link person feels the importance of the piece she's providing, like it's meant for the other person."

Exactly how I see it myself. But you knew that before.


I have a Grand trine in Earth with someone; my Venus is trining his Venus-Pluto-trine, but I certainly feel it myself quite strongly.


Actually his Venus-Aphrodite-Karma-conjunction trines his Pluto-myHekate-myLilith and this again trines my Venus-Isis-Osiris. lol
(his Venus-Karmaconjunction falls onto my PoM and Eros/Psyche-mp and Lucifer, too. lol)


"ike in our GT with your Jupiter-Mars and my Amor, my Amor will energize and fulfill your own Jupiter and Mars. So you're going to be feeling really good."

I do. always feel good talking to you.

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DD
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posted March 09, 2010 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually I like it that my Mars trines my Jupiter, and that both sextile my Venus. And my Valentine conjuncts my Mars and sextiles my Venus as well. So I seem to have a harmonious pattern of Venus-Valentine-Mars-Jupiter in helio. I like that.

" I'll feel like I'm meant to express that part of myself with you. "
How sweet!
You can`t help loving me.


"t's your karma to get my Venus and Pluto energies flowing."
I wonder what helio Karma means?


"I guess we could say that the Neptune opp shows how I express those energies to you, in a spiritually loving sorta way? Or obnoxiously delusional, take your pick."
LOL
Probably a bit of both, but since this is the helio chart, I pick the spiritual side of Neptune.


"You had a hunch because I'm pretty sure I told you about that before, lol."
That could be. But I am never sure what you actively TOLD me and what is just in my HEAD that you might have said. Mercury-Neptune I guess.


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jane
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posted March 09, 2010 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD -

quote:
But I am never sure what you actively TOLD me and what is just in my HEAD that you might have said. Mercury-Neptune I guess

Funny you should say that because as I typed my comment I thought, "Maybe I only thought about telling her this and never actually did?"

quote:
So I seem to have a harmonious pattern of Venus-Valentine-Mars-Jupiter in helio. I like that.

I like that about you too. Must be my natal [Jupiter cnj Mars] trine Venus that makes me so comfortable w/ others who have a similar energy.

I'm getting "Age of Aquarius" in my head...when the Moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars. Since the helio lacks houses we can just go ahead and assign them ourselves and say that your Moon is in that house.

That earth GT you have with your mystery fella sounds delicious.

[Isis cnj Osiris] cnj your Venus...It's like you innately know the best of what committed love can be. A blessing and a curse, since you know the ideal and so much in life doesn't match that ideal. But I think it's great that your Venus is in Cap. In another sign, you may so badly want that ideal that you allow yourself to be fooled into believing you've found it with someone when you really haven't. Cap appreciates what's real only when it is real.

quote:
I wonder what helio Karma means?

As do I.
I suppose we could say that even at this "higher self" level, our spirit has history & is sculpted from that history.
edit: It does get more complicated since this level supposedly lacks an individual ego...but we all have our own helio, so there is a type of individuality to it. Perhaps our helio is simply the part of ourselves most aware of our immersion in all others and all others in us.

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Jovian
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posted May 31, 2012 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jovian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
bumperoo

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Jovian
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posted June 01, 2012 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jovian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving to the asteroid board? How 'bout it?

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