posted March 13, 2010 01:35 PM            

My younger brother is the only person in both of our families who is left handed, and that includes great grandma's/grandpa's/uncle great uncle/aunties, 2d, 3rd, 4th cousins..even great greats.

But i do have to say, he just too watery. We're both cancers, but he's a cancer sun AND a cancer moon but he's very sweet, mild mannered, timid, likes to stay at home and tinker away on his computer (5th house in Aquarius, of course lol) and is so sensitive.

Socially he developed a lot later, like he's in his early 20s and he's doing things that most of us do in high school. It takes a lot to get him out of his shell.

But i definitely can't see any learning or intellectual disabilities, even if he is a bit socially retarded. He's actually very smart when it comes to fixing electronic things, building computers, maths kinda stuff.

posted March 13, 2010 01:58 PM            

Exactly..there is no significant correlation between left-handed people and neurodivergence. Many neurodivergents are righthanded. Many neurodivergents are ambidextrous. Many neurodivergents are mixed/cross dominant.

"But i definitely can't see any learning or intellectual disabilities, even if he is a bit socially retarded. He's actually very smart when it comes to fixing electronic things, building computers, maths kinda stuff."

In USA, Learning disability is a term reserved for people with at least average intelligence that have information processing differences

in UK, learning disability is a term reserved for people with intellectually handicaps

so neurodivergent conditions, Dyslexia and Dyspraxia would not be considered a learning disability in the UK like it would in USA.

I think Australia,New Zealand might approach the term,learning disability like the UK. I am not sure.

That's the reason why I use the word, learning difference in regards to the USA version of learning disabilities to avoid misunderstandings from people who live in countries that reserve the term,learning disability for the intellectually handicapped.

also the word,"socially retarded" is often a term used offensively towards Aspergers that are known to have problems with nonverbal communications,social skills as well as understanding emotional/social cues. These people tend to be highly inteligent and into electronics,computers,technology. They usually have a gift rote memorization and remembering facts,figures which tend to be weaknesses of people with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD. They can have extreme narrow interest,obsession on certain topics of interests which can lead to great deal of knowledge about it. They tend to be very good with attention to detail.

Also many Aspergers have been misdiagnosed ADHD. Many Dyspraxics have Aspergers Syndrome. Many of them do have Aspergers traits,and so they can be viewed as being socially retarded or naive.

They might not be "socially retarded" but they might be confused with so much information taking in from their environment. There is research that shows that people with Autistic Spectrum might have too much empathy,but they don't know how to express it. Sensory integration issues is typical of people with Autistic Specturm. These people tend to be way too sensitive (I am talking about responsiveness to external stimuli like being sensitive to touch,light,sound)

I also want to say that being "socially retarded" doesn't mean that a person has Aspergers Syndrome nor a neurodivergence of some kind.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 13, 2010 02:12 PM            

But i do have to say, this little autistic Piscean had this old soul look in her eyes, I would just look into them and see the entire universe in them. Does that make sense? Like these kids know something that we don't.

Sorry, I probably should have used socially impaired or stunted? Wrong choice of words and my apologies if they caused any offense

And its very true about those with learning/intellectual disabilities that specialise in one key area and are genuises in this what seems to be a totally random talent.

There's a special type of autism (i think..we had to watch a documentary of it in high school and it's comes up several times in both my Nueropsych and Biopsych classes).
It's called Savant's syndrome and these people are very disabled in which they need 24/7 care as they cannot function individually (but they're beautiful, sweet souls) but have a talent in something amazing like playing the piano, making amazing detailed sculpturs of animals, being able to give you what day it was when you give them a random date (that one just blows me away), able to do complicated maths equations..just something so brilliant and so rare that it can only be compared to the likes of Beethoven or some famous mathematician or something like that.

They're a very special group of people.

I used to do disabled care for mainly with people who had been in car accidents or had had a stroke or multiple sclerosis or motor neuron disease but once in awhile i'd get a client who was born with a congenital disability and these people/children were just something different all together. I would have to communicate and interact with them in a completely different way, so that i was speaking to them in their language and sometimes, its pretty hard to figure out but if your a sensitive person (and neptunian ruled, too i believe), communication becomes more of a non-verbal thing anyways. Communication is only 10% words, the rest in body language and symbols. Its a shame that we (as in not disabled) get so caught up in what we're saying and not on what is behind what we're saying.

posted March 13, 2010 02:20 PM            

Pps. I think Australia follows America when it comes to that arena (ie. mental health, mental issues) cos most of the research is done there.
Everything i've learned is based on the American model of things and the DSM-IV, there's another one they use (in the UK i think?) but we've never referenced to it. Just the straight up DSM bible. The APA (Aus. Psych Assc) is basically the American fraction of the APA (American Psych Assc), then there's the APS blah blah blah but yeah, its alllll based on America.

posted March 13, 2010 02:24 PM            

Autistics have been given the wrong intelligence tests. Most intelligence tests rely on use of verbal skills. There are studies that show that autistics including even nonverbal autistics tend to score much higher on tests that test visual problem solving skills. The tests is called Matrice Raven.

Autistic intelligence

Autistic children are doubly stigmatized. On the one hand, they are often dismissed as low functioning or mentally retarded, especially if they have poor speaking skills as many do.

Yet when autistics do show exceptional abilities uncanny visual discrimination and memory for detail, for example their flashes of brilliance are marginalized as aberrations, mere symptoms of their higher order cognitive deficit. They often earn a dubious promotion to idiot savant.

The theoretical justification for this view is that prototypical autistic skills are not true intelligence at all, but really just low-level perceptual abilities. Indeed, in this view autistics are missing the big picture because they are obsessed with the detail.

But is this true? Are autistics really incapable of abstraction and integration and other high-level thinking? Surprisingly, given how pervasive this view of autism is, it has never been rigorously tested. But a team of scientists in Canada suspected that the tests themselves might be baised and decided to explore the idea in the lab.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2007/08/06/28489.aspx

Dr. Temple Grandin has Autism. She doesn't have Aspergers. She had history of speech delays in childhood. She would communicate by humming and screaming. She was lucky to be identified as being a highly intelligent person.

There is no telling how many "Temple Grandin"'s have been undetected and labeled as "savants"
http://www.templegrandin.com/

Ron D. Davis who has Autism and Dyslexia was also described as an idiot savant by a math teacher. He was labeled retarded.

He wrote the book,THE GIFT OF DYSLEXIA which is mainly a book about neurodivergence.

He runs a world wide organization, Davis Dyslexia Association International http://www.dyslexia.com/

Neurotypical society in general has problems with understanding neurodivergent minds including especially with Autism.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 13, 2010 02:41 PM            

IQ testing is subjective. I'm really maths dumb and have to use a calculator to add up simple numbers but when it comes to interpreting behaviourial stats and reading data..not a problem.

Even though the WAIS is the standard, I dont think it caters to all abilities and is a bit too specific.
But the main point of this argument is::: HOW do you measure intelligence and HOW do you define what it is and under WHAT parameters and assumptions and HOW do you test it??

I lean more towards the Howard Gardner's theory of the 7 different types of intelligences:
- Linguistic
- Logical
- Body Kinesthetic
- Spatial
- Musical
- Interpersonal
- Intrapersonal (which a lot of autistic/learning disability kids may fall into)

And also, IQ testing can be used as a political weapon. I dont like how they used it to keep non-English speaking European immigrants from entering Ellis Island or denying ppl things in society cos they're "dumb". (i may have gotten the details somewhat wrong on this fact)

It infuriated me even more to know that White America made IQ tests that had very formal, upper class language that NOBODY could understand except the elite and used that against black people to keep them further segregated and disempowered by propogating that they are of less intelligence.

Oh really? Id like to put one of those white men that come up with THAT IQ test in Africa and see how far his supposedly superior intelligence would get him there.
What made me laugh though was when the black community made up their OWN IQ test written in olden day Ebonics and served it up to the white man...who couldn't get one question right. I looked at a few of those questions and it was like gibberish to me as it was written in their culturally specific language.

Ps. You should watch a movie called District 9. I think you might really like it.

posted March 14, 2010 03:29 PM            

It makes more sense to me than simplistic and silly interpretations like earth void people have no sense or practical skills. In the case of someone I know with a heavy water chart, no earth, not much fire and air - practical things are just easy - business, money, this is a successful part of life. Emotional matters are more of a challenge.

Bob Marks is good on element voids.
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm

quote:

---

What happens when you count all the planets in each element and one type is missing? Some astrologers claim that you are missing whatever it is that the particular element rules. For instance, if you have no planets in water signs in your horoscope, they would say that you can’t express emotions (some even say that you have no emotions!). If you have no planets in earth signs, they would tell you that you are impractical. And if you have no planets in Air Signs, you are not supposed to communicate too well or do much writing.

Well Bill Gates, world’s richest man and the founder of Microsoft, has no planets in Earth Signs. Impractical? Not worldly? What are those superficial interpretations missing? If a sign that belongs to that missing element happens to sit on one of the Angles of your horoscope (the Ascendant, Mid-Heaven, Descendant, or Nadir) you can make up for that deficit big time. Gates’ horoscope, the Earth Sign Capricorn, appears on the Descendant. Capricorn specifically rules organizational ability, efficiency, and persistence. It is said that Gates thinks that taking a vacation is a sign of weakness and that time off for him means time to catch up on his reading.

---

posted March 14, 2010 04:03 PM            

Even though the WAIS is the standard, I dont think it caters to all abilities and is a bit too specific.
But the main point of this argument is::: HOW do you measure intelligence and HOW do you define what it is and under WHAT parameters and assumptions and HOW do you test it??"

IQ tests won't work on many neurodivergents, and that goes especially for autistics.

I talked about that at the Autistic Spectrum and Special Needs Mini-Conference yesterday. An autistic had a 30 IQ,but he greatly benefited from Son-Rise therapy. He is highly educated now.

I definitely believe that his intelligence was measured with the wrong intelligence tests. He'd score highly on the Matrice Raven test.

"I lean more towards the Howard Gardner's theory of the 7 different types of intelligences:
- Linguistic
- Logical
- Body Kinesthetic
- Spatial
- Musical
- Interpersonal
- Intrapersonal (which a lot of autistic/learning disability kids may fall into)"

I aware of those, and I am going to include Multiple Intelligences page on the new Developmental Neurodiversity Assocation website.

"And also, IQ testing can be used as a political weapon. I dont like how they used it to keep non-English speaking European immigrants from entering Ellis Island or denying ppl things in society cos they're "dumb". (i may have gotten the details somewhat wrong on this fact)"

yep

"It infuriated me even more to know that White America made IQ tests that had very formal, upper class language that NOBODY could understand except the elite and used that against black people to keep them further segregated and disempowered by propogating that they are of less intelligence.

Oh really? Id like to put one of those white men that come up with THAT IQ test in Africa and see how far his supposedly superior intelligence would get him there.
What made me laugh though was when the black community made up their OWN IQ test written in olden day Ebonics and served it up to the white man...who couldn't get one question right. I looked at a few of those questions and it was like gibberish to me as it was written in their culturally specific language."

good points. There is a strong argument that IQ tests are racially biased. White supremacists used the argument that blacks have average IQ scores of 85 to say that blacks are mentally inferior to whites.

"Ps. You should watch a movie called District 9. I think you might really like it."

I saw it with my shaman friend,Steve. It's a good movie.

"Pps. I totally understand what you mean by nuerodivergence and now that i do understand the value of something like thisD"

Good

Thanks

We need more people like you

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 14, 2010 04:15 PM            

I am going to answer your post about the haplogroup,subclade stuff

I will post in Central area

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 14, 2010 04:40 PM            

I have no planets in Air. But my 3rd and 7th houses are home to most of my stuff..including nodes.

I am in sales and talk on the phone all day.
I've been is sales, direct and otherwise, for 22 yrs.

edit to say..

posted March 15, 2010 05:13 PM            

glaucas:
give 5!we both r dumb in math...em good @ log but em also pretty slow ...that's the reason i shifted to informatics after 10th....

posted March 15, 2010 06:18 PM            

actually Diablo said that she was dumb in math,and I was answering what she said.

I don't think you two are dumb in math. It's just a difficulty of either maybe processing certain parts of math like rightbrained people have problems with the linear types of mathematics like algebra.

It could just be the teacher.

the education system has been broken a long time ago.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 16, 2010 02:02 AM            

But when it comes to Statistics, i can put together data sets and manipulate numbers, do research design, the numbers in graphs and data and tell you what it means and whether its significant or not.