posted March 13, 2010 02:39 PM         

btw

the symptoms of schizophrenia overlap with those of neurodivergence (Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD,Aspergers,Autism).

if people go by what they observe, neurodivergents can be misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia.

the same aspects for schizophrenia could be for neurodivergence

I don't think that it has to be the hard aspects.

also many schizophrenics may not only be misdiagnosed neurodivergents, but they could be misdiagnosed shamans,mystics,psychics.

Remember that psychiatric community is skeptical of metaphysical stuff.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 13, 2010 02:52 PM         

For instance, schizophrenics have very open ventricles in the front part of their brain that are much more open and eroded than one of a healthy brain structure. That means more cerebralspinal fluid can flow around the brain causes chemical upsets etc

People with chronic Major Depression (such as myself) have an abnormally formed amygdala, which is the "pleasure centre" of the brain which is why ppl with depression cannot or have extreme difficulty experiencing pleasure, happiness, joy. Its also the part of the brain that processes emotion.

So maybe look for a health glitch in the chart??

Mercury glitches?? (with Uranus being the higher octave?)

posted March 13, 2010 03:04 PM         

But from reading your posts and the one I'm responding to now, you honestly don't come across as having disjointed and maladaptive, disturbing thoughts/dialogue/manner of speech at all.

Is your Mercury badly aspected with Mars, Pluto & Uranus? Maybe what your asking could be attributed to that? Just speculating here.

Its just a shame that ppl use drugs and disorders to make money and make ppl think they're sick when they're not. Its not fair on the people that are actually mentally sick.

posted March 13, 2010 03:23 PM         

I have no hard aspects in my natal chart;
Nearly 3 years ago;I found myself in loneliness,but strange thing is that I wanted that.I saw people little,I usually sit hours and doing nothing..And than of course crying everday.For 2 years I went ,many doctors and each of them said diffrent things.And as although I have great respect to doctors I did not use pills,drugs etc.Because I afraid,I afraid to lose my mind,my health..You know also side effects of this drugs..And Nearly 1 year ago,I felt myself healthy and for 2 months very good...I care spiritualism for 2 months

posted March 13, 2010 03:33 PM         

I hate withdrawing, that's when i know things in my head aren't right. But luckily i know my patterns now and get it before it strikes and makes me unable to function and get out of bed. Exploring and developing spirituality really really helped.

Also, reflecting on the last few years and comparing to where i was then compared to where i am now, mentally and emotionally..I didn't realise i was depressed a couple of years ago cos i thought i was functioning normally, but looking back at my self destructive patterns and behaviours made me realise that i wasn't 100% ok.

posted March 14, 2010 01:39 AM         

I don't think that it's just one single aspect that does

I that the overall chart has to be considered. It can be a combination of aspects.

the aspects for schizophrenia aren't so cut and dry with the symptoms of schizophrenia overlapping with neurodivergent conditions and neurological disorders including brain deterioration diseases.

I don't trust psychiatrists at all for obvious reasons.

here is schizophrenia site. I was alarmed by what I read. I felt that a lot of the symptoms of schizophrenia fit with neurodivergence
http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 14, 2010 10:09 AM         

Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. It most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions , or disorganized speech and thinking.

the problem is not the "mind" in a Mercury kind of way, the problem is the integrative function of the Ego and consciousness - in a Sun kinda way. the personality is crushing down into pieces.

differential diagnostic must account for these:
-does the person know WHO they are, WHERE they are, WHEN they are?
-can they RELATE safely and soundly to REALITY?
-do they HALLUCINATE? i.e. do they see/hear/feel things that are not there. not to be mistaken for illusions - seeing things that are there, but in a different state. water dripping sounds like a train is an illusion. no water in the room, water dripping is a hallucination.

Steven Baxter did a serious study on this and found a statistical evidence (that stands to reason) that mental health issues co-relate with:

- this is a MUST: Neptune in hard aspects to the ANGLES = reality! (any other aspects are NOT relevant, not even to Sun or Moon)

- PLUS! but not alone! Neptune in aspect to Mercury

- plus! heavy 12th house

- plus, but not alone! Moon-Pluto aspects = that stand for psychotherapy and the path to recovery!

the illness usually starts with an emotional crisis - so there should be relevant signs in transits AND Solar Arcs. ("and", not "or")

I feel like I must stress this: all of these must be present. there must be a trigger in transits+SA.

posted March 14, 2010 02:06 PM         

It's great to meet another Dyspraxic!
Does Dyspraxia,neurodivergence in general run in your family like mine does? Is it genetic? Do you also have the Dyspraxic strengths like I do?

I was wondering if I could look at your chart if that's ok with you in regards to possible neurodivergent indicators. I have this theory that they are strong in transneptunian energies (whether it's Pluto,Eris,Makemake,Haumea,Sedna,Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,and Ixion). I use only 3 degree orb for conjunction,opposition,square when it comes to them. I use only 2 degree orb for sextile when it comes to them. I use 1 degree orb for semisquare,sesquiquadrate,biquintile,quintile,semisextile,quincunx when it comes to them. Sedna has the the greatest average distance of them all, and so the most otherworldly. I have Sedna oppose Sun in Right Ascension,sextile Moon;Ixion-Quaoar conjunct Sun,trine Moon;Varuna square Moon,quincunx Sun in Right Ascension,Moon semisquare Eris in Right Ascension,Haumea conjunct/oppose Ascendant,square Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis;Mercury square Makemake,Mercury biquintile Eris,Venus quincunx Eris in Right Ascension;Venus sextile Haumea in Right Ascension;Mercury square "Snow White";Venus trine Orcus;Mars oppose Makemake in Right Ascension

There is also the nodes of transneptunian objects to consider
orb 1 degree for conjunction,opposition,square,trine,sextile (

I have Sun oppose/conjunct Eris Nodes (both geocentric and heliocentric),Sun trine Geocentric North "Snow White",Sun sextile Geocentric South Varuna Node,Mercury sextile South Geocentric Pluto Node,Venus trine Geocentric North Pluto Node

There is also the declinations.
I use only 30 minutes of arc for transneptunians.

Sun contraparallel Orcus

I was misdiagnosed as having a schizoaffective disorder with bipolar disorder.
My mother told me that my father was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic,but she didn't believe he was one.
My mother told me that she was forced on an antipsychotic tranquilizer when she was a kid because she acted up in a mental hospital because she wanted to go home when she was around 13 years old. She was in the foster care system where she was abused.

Both my parents have strong neurodivergent traits like myself. According to my mother, my father's had more severe neurodivergent weaknesses than she has.

I also want to point out traits/symptoms that are listed on schizophrenia on schizophrenia.com
that are also neurodivergent traits/symptoms.

there are factors
it depends on what neurodivergent condition(s),how many neurodivergent conditions,and how extreme the neurodivergent conditions are,how much the neurodivergent weaknesses were corrected like auditory therapy,speech therapy,occupational therapy

Autism would be at the extreme severe end of the neurodivergent spectrum. I think Tourette's Syndrome would too,but I am not sure. I learned very little about it. Aspergers would seem to be on the mild end of the neurodivergent perspective. It's possible that corrected/compensated Autistics like Dr. Temple Grandin could be considered in the mild section or maybe middle section. They are just viewed as just odd,intellectual types that have great strengths in rote memorization,detail,sequencing,and organization which tend to be weaknesses for people with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD which would be in the middle (if it's mild, at the milder end of the middle...I would not be in the mild section). ADHD can be hotly debatable in regards to it being on middle or the mild end of the spectrum. I don't see ADHD as something that requires any type of therapy,correction. I just see it as the novelty-seeking type.

I am not sure. Neurodivergence is so hard to pin down. It can be a matter of perception as well as any interventions,therapies,treatments that helped correct neurodivergent weaknesses. I had history of severe Dyslexic,Dyspraxic weakness along with ADHD that got me misplaced with the mentally retarded. I was similar to an autistic child, and so I would have been at mild end of the severe range of the spectrum in early childhood. Thanks to special education therapies, my Dyslexic,Dyspraxic weaknesses are weak now, I'd be at the mild end of the middle range of the spectrum.

Some ND's like Mary Colley think that it's all one syndrome because there is so much overlap. Most ND's have more than one neurodivergent condition.

any ways...here are symptoms/traits of schizophrenia from schizophrenia.com that fit with neurodivergence

a blank,vacant facial expression. an inability to smile or express emotion though the face is so characteristic of the disease that it was given the name of affective flattening of a blunt effect

Overly acute senses - lights are too bright,sounds are too loud

clumsy,inexact motor skills

sleep disturbances - insomnia or excessive sleeping

involuntary movements of the tongue or mouth (facial dyskinesias).

Parkinsonian type symptoms - rigidty,tremor,jerking arm movements,or involuntary movements of the limbs

an awkward gait (how you walk)

eye movements - difficulty focusing on slow moving objects

movement is speeded up - i.e. constant pacing

hypersensitivity to criticism,insults,or hurt feelings

sudden irritability,anger,hostility,suspiciousness,,resentment

rapidly changing mood - from happy to sad to angry for no apparent reason (called labile mood)

severe anxiety

dropping out of activities and life in general

inability to form or keep relationships

social isolation - few close friends if any. little interaction outside of immediate family

increased - withdrawal,spending most of the days alone

becoming lost in thoughts and not wanting to be disturbed with human contact

neglect in self care - i.e. hygiene, clothing,or appearance

finding it difficult to deal with stressful situations

inability to cope with minor problems

functional impairent in interpersonal relationships,work,education,or self-care

deterioration of academic or job-related performance

frequent moves,trips,or walks that lead nowhere

ruminating thoughts - these are the same thoughts that go round and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments,missed opportunities,failed relationships

does not logically relate to the next. for example, "I need to go to the store to buy some band-aids. I read an article about how expensive AIDs drugs are. People take too many street drugs. The streets should be clean from the rain today, etc" The need to go to the store to buy band-aids is forgotten.

directionless - lack goals,or the ability to set and achieve goals

in conversation you tend to say very little (called poverty of speech or alogia)

suddenly halting speech in the middle of a sentence(thought blocking)

trouble with social cues - i.e. not being able to interpret body language,eye contact,voice tone,and gestures appropriately. - often not reponding appropriately and thus coming off as cold,distant,or detached.

difficulty expressing thoughts verbally. or not having much to say about anything.

speaking in an abstract or tangential way. odd use of words or language structure

difficulty focusing attention and engaging in a goal directed behavior

poor concentration/memory. forgetfulness

nonsensical logic

difficulty understanding simple things

thoughts,behavior,and actions are not integrated

obsessive compulsive tendencies - with thoughts or actions

conversations that seem deep, but are not logical or coherent
http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm

I spoke at the Autistic Spectrum and Special Needs Mini-Conference yesterday, and I talked about the need to differentiate neurodivergent conditions from schizophrenia because they share a lot of the same symptoms/traits.

After seeing this site, I have decided to strive to get schizophrenia sites to include neurodivergence as possible things that can be misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. I found this site on Friday,and I printed out copies of the symptoms and gave to people at the mini-conference.

fact:
half of schizophrenics have history of developmental delays/problems (whether speech/language or motor skills/coordination delays/problems)

left/right confusion,eye tracking issues,poor eye contact,disorganization,memory/attention problems,hypersensitivity,poor coordination,speech problems,mixed/cross dominance, are things that schizophrenics share with neurodivergents

if you can relate to stuff like the Indigo,Crystal in regards to not only recognized neurodivergent traits but also
things like psychic,mystical,shamanic abilities and tell psychiatrists about them, that will easily get you easily misdiagnosed as schizophrenic too.

Schizophrenia is also overdiagnosed in Blacks. Many Blacks have been misdiagnosed schizophrenic. http://www.usnews.com/health/fa mily-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2010/01/15/blacks-often-misdiagnosed-with-schizophrenia-author-says.html
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/1/133

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 14, 2010 02:35 PM         

cristiname,

That's condescending and patronizing.

This isn't the only post that you made that seems that way. You have done quite a few of those in the past.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted March 16, 2010 03:20 PM         

diablo, no idea what you say there, dear. just bc a doctor writes a diagnosis on a piece of paper doesn't mean you know what he was thinking about while writing. also, psychiatrists DON'T study "psychology", they study about mental diseases and stuff. there's a big difference, you may want to check - especially since you're "pretty studying psychology".

that crap about it being a "terminal disease" is an insult to people suffering from it - some of them having quite nice, fulfilling and productive lives. no need to speak about things you don't know - being quiet is also an option.

posted March 16, 2010 05:24 PM         

What does this mean? Does it mean that the Neptune is near the cusp of the 4 angular houses--first ,fourth, seventh and tenth?
Thanks so much! I appreciate any help!

posted March 17, 2010 06:11 AM         

the MC is the point of consciousness in a chart; the Asc represents how we relate to others =the world outside; so both stand for our grip and contact with or to reality.

of course, any aspect to Saturn can balance things out - either to the Angles or Neptune itself. this is known to be present for artists - they have the Neptune contact for inspiration, and the Saturn contact helps them turn that inspiration into hard work, and eventually something concrete.