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Author Topic:   TPA
DD
Knowflake

Posts: 4061
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 04, 2010 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
TPA is the abbreviation for the "German School of Transpersonal Astrology". It was founded by Michael Roscher, and my first encounter with it is years back, when his book "Venus and Mars" fell into my hand.
It was the first time, that I didn`t understand something immediately.
His description of the Venus and Mars-constellations spooked me, and I had to put the book away several times - it was just too painfully accurate.
ACtually he mentioned in a little footnote that the Downsyndrome *can* be found in the placing of 2nd house ruler in the 11th house - there are of course many many other expression of ruler 2 in 11 than having Downsyndrome, but the basic interpretation is:
The physical (body) manifestation of oneself (2nd house) mutates out of the traditional form (11th house).
Another expression could be someone who is the "black sheep of the family", not fitting (11th house) with his origin (2nd house). (in a physical sense; origin in an emotional sense would be more 4th house like).
Or someone who has has risky hobbies, like racecars or parashoots or something like that. (the physical aspect of the 2nd house would be found in doing sports, the 11th house indicates that it has to be "out of the norm").

My brother has the Down syndrome, and yes, he has the 2nd house ruler in 11th house. So has Orlando Bloom, who doesn`t have t he Down syndrome; but he has been breaking his back as a youth, as he fell 2 or 3 floors, while he was climbing out of a window to get into another room from outside the house. That certainly was a risky (11th house) physical movement (2nd house).

Anyway, the TPA is a bit "different" from traditional astrology.

Their basic premise is that the rarest constellations/ aspects will indicate the most individual traits of a person. So an ASC aspect would be much more individual (and significant) in their book than a Pluto-one.

The most striking difference is maybe that they basically leave out the signs and concentrate very much on the houses (they are using only Placidus or Topocentric - they make a certain admission towards equal at the polar regions), because the housesystems rotates so quickly during the day, while the Mars sign will be the same for I think 4 weeks, or something like that.
The housecusps and the Moon sign are the only ones they use.
They think that the other sign places do "work", too, but that they are too generalized and that other, more individual factors can overshadow a Venus in Aries easily, unless of course this person has a lot of Venus-Mars constellations.


They also concentrate on conjunction, opposition, square and the mirrorpoints (antiscia / contrascia and their square-positions).
This is because they think the challenging aspects will be much more "pressing" and trine and sextile will be softer, more harmonious, not pressing into action so much.


So, if I understand this system right, they put most emphasis on:

1. planets aspecting ASC, DESC, MC and IC (with an orb of 3°-5°)

2. planets aspecting the intermediate housecusps (orb is 1°; and it only makes sense to use them, if the birthtime is absolutely accurate; my birthtime is accurate and I have Uranus exactly opposing my 5th house cusp.)

3. planets in houses

4. ruler of house x in house y

5. aspects of ruler of house x to ruler of house y (ONLY the mentioned aspects count)

6. Moon- and ASC-sign (and of course MC; IC and DESC sign)

You can write the result as constellations (analogies).
Like Mars = 1st house = Aries.


Let us have a look at my Sun-constellations (identity, selfexpression, behaviour):

° Sun in 1 = Sun - Mars
° Sun conjunct Mercury = Sun-Mercury
° ruler of 5th house in 1st house = Sun-Mars
° ruler of 5th house squaring ruler of 11th house= Sun-Uranus
° ruler of 5th house square ruler of 12th house=
Sun-Neptune
° 5th house cusp exactly opposing Uranus = Sun-Uranus


You can see that Sun-Mars and Sun-Uranus are being repeated, therefore they are a "theme", even though not a dominant one (they would be dominant if there had be THREE hints to them).

Sun-Mars is the impulsive, the engaged (Mars) behaviour / selfexpression (Sun), while Sun-Uranus indicates a more detached way of behaving, the urge to be "different" (Uranus) in selfexpression (Sun).
And indeed there is a certain conflict in that for me; usually I prefer the Sun-Uranus way, a bit analytical, amused, observing from outside, interested, but detached and my poor Mars is starving (well it is no wonder, my poor Mars himself is drenched in Neptune).
But there are situations where my Mars really breaks through and is surprising even myself. Usually these situations have to do with 5th house issues, where I react impulsively, spontaneously, without thinking and in surprising ways (ruler of 5th house in 1st house, squaring ruler of 11th house, and Uranus opposing 5th house cusp).
Of course it means, too, that the Uranian-Martian guys (and situations) are like aphrodisiac for me.

anyway I did not want to bore you with the analysation of my strange chart.
But I think having a look from this perspective and listing the relevant constellations can really give some insight and Aha-epiphanies (for me it was, when I realized I had 3 Venus-Pluto constellations in my chart. Phew, 2 of them in relation to my 2nd house with Moon in 2nd house, anditsuddenly made so much more sense than all the traditional "Sagittarians are so lighthearted and funny" approach, which didn`t fit me at all).


Maybe it is important to know how the housesystem is seen.
The houses have a basic "meaning" and from there all outer expressions are derived.

Cardinal houses always show the potential, the urges.
Fixed houses indicate materialization / manifestation/ the substance.
Mutable houses indicate the expression, the spreading.

The 1st Quadrant: the physical
It relates to our physical being.
The 1st house would be all about the physical potential, our physical instincts, our instinctive affinity, the way we approach the world, how we are seen when we are acting instinctively.
How much do you sleep? How do you react to hunger? What are you doing instinctively, if you feel threatened? What is your sex-drive like (just hormonal / physically)?
Who are you in a very physical sense?


2nd house would be about the substance, about the actual body, about our senses (and sensuality). How we "take posession" of our environment. When do we feel secure?


3rd house would be about the showing, expression of our instinctive being, which includeds communication as well as body language.

Ruler of 3rd house in 11th house - chances are that your communicative skills and interest are unusual, as is your motion. Either you can iceskate like an iceprincess or you are stumbling over your feet constantly. It has something to do with physical coordination.
Interest (3rd house) in astrology (11th house) anyone?
Maybe you have a stutter (because you think just too rapidly) or a lisp?
Maybe the way you communicate marks you a genius or an outsider?

Well, I have 3rd house ruler in 11th house (through Uranus) and I stumble wherever I go, I have real coordination problems sometimes, I am talkins so quickly at times that not even I can sometimes keep up with my thought, and I am having a lisp now and then. My thoughts are just racing all the time (there is much Mercury emphasis in my chart, especially Mercury-Mars, Mercury-Jupiter and Mercury-Uranus).


2nd Quadrant: our emotions
4th house: your basic emotional needs, your feelings
5th house: manifestation of these emotions, which usually leads to emotional expression, either through creativity or through erotic expression
6th house: expression of feelings IN RELATION to your environment. Reactivity.
How can I express my feelings without suppressing them nor without offending others?
This house is about the adaption of feelings, which is the reason that many actors have a pretty strong 6th hosue, too. They KNOW how to express their feelings in a "welcome" manner.


Well, and so on. I guess you can continue on your own, if you want to.


I know there are some new or not traditional concepts in here. But I am always surprised that how well this system works.

Actually I have encountered only two astrological theories / systems that really work in a majority of cases and are consistent.

One is the theory of progressed synastry, the other is the system according to TPA.
But it ONLY works if you keep to the rules. Only within this context.

It doesn`t make sense to look for an 8 degree sextile to 3rd house cusp- it falsifies the results.


But check your constellations, I am sure you will make some interesting discoveries.
And those when you say: This all ******** . How DARE They think I am like that?


Those are the ones I advise to delve into further.

I wished the Venus-Mars book was on English.


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DD
Knowflake

Posts: 4061
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posted May 04, 2010 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
MOON - CONSTELLATIONS
----------------------
----------------------

IC in Aries = Moon - Mars
ruler of 4 conjunct ASC= Moon-Mars
ruler of 4 widely square ruler of 1 (6 degree) = Moon - Mars

ruler of 4 in 12 = Moon - Neptune

Moon in Aquarius = Moon - Uranus

Moon in 2 = Moon - Venus
IC square Venus= Moon - Venus

ruler of 4 conjunct ruler of 3= Moon-Mercury

IC opposite Pluto = Moon - Pluto

SUN - CONSTELLATIONS
--------------------
--------------------

Sun in 1 = Sun-Mars
ruler 5 in 1= Sun-Mars

ruler 5 square ruler 11= Sun-Uranus
cusp 5 opposing Uranus= Sun-Uranus

Sun conj. Mercury= Sun-Mercury

ruler 5 square ruler 12= Sun-Neptune

Sun solstice Venus = Sun-Venus
ruler 5 solst ruler 7 = Sun-Venus

ruler 5 solst ruler 9 = Sun-Jupiter
ruler 5 solst int. ruler 9 = Sun-Jupiter
(both 9th house rulers are exactly conjunct each other)


MERCURY CONSTELLATIONS
------------------------
------------------------

Mercury in 1 = Mercury-Mars
ruler of 1 in 3= Mercury-Mars
ruler of 3 in 1= Mercury-Mars
ruler 3 square ruler 1= Mercury-Mars
ruler of 6 in 1 = Mercury-Mars

ruler 3 in 11 = Mercury-Uranus
ruler 6 square ruler 11 = Mercury-Uranus

Jupiter in 3= Mercury-Jupiter
ruler 6 solstice ruler 9 = Mercury-Jupiter
ruler 6 solst. int. ruler 9 = Mercury-Jupiter

Mercury conj. Sun = Mercury - Sun


Mercury solstice Venus = Mercury-Venus
DESC in Gemini = Mercury - Venus
ruler 6 solst. ruler 7 = Mercury-Venus

Pisces intercepted in 3= Mercury-Neptune
ruler 6 square ruler 12= Mercury-Neptune

(old) ruler of 3 in 8 = Mercury-Saturn

(old)ruler of 3 in 3= Mercury-Mercury
(old) ruler 3 square ruler 3 = Mercury-Mercury

VENUS-KONSTELLATIONEN
---------------------
----------------------


Venus in 1= Venus-Mars
DESC opp. Mars= Venus-Mars
ruler 7 in 1 = Venus-Mars

Venus square Pluto = Venus-Pluto
ruler 8 in 2 = Venus-Pluto
ruler 2 in 8 = Venus-Pluto

Venus solst. Sun = Venus-Sun
ruler 7 solst. ruler 5 = Venus-Sun


Venus solst. Mercury = Venus-Mercury
DESC Gemini = Venus-Mercury
ruler 7 solst ruler 6 = Venus-Mercury

DESC square Jupiter = Venus-Jupiter
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 9 = Venus-Jupiter

Moon in 2 = Venus-Moon

DES opp. NEptune = Venus-Neptune

ruler 7 solst ruler 10 = Venus-Saturn
(MC in Libra = Venus-Saturn)


MARS - CONSTELLATIONS
---------------------
---------------------


Mars in 12 = Mars - Neptune
Mars conj. NEptune = Mars-Neptune
ASC conjunct Neptune = Mars-Neptune
Neptune in 1 = Mars-Neptune

ruler 1 in 3= Mars-Mercury
ruler 1 square ruler 3 = Mars-Mercury
Mercury in 1= Mars-Mercury
ruler 6 in 1 = Mars-Mercury
ruler 3 in 1= Mars-Mercury

Mars conjunct ASC = Mars-Mars

Mars opposite DESC = Mars-Venus
ruler 7 in 1= Mars-Venus
Venus in 1= Mars-Venus

Mars widely squ Jupiter= Mars-Jupiter
ASC square Jupiter = Mars-Jupiter
ruler 9 in 1 = Mars-Jupiter
interc ruler 9 in 1 = Mars-Jupiter

ruler 1 widely squ ruler 4 = Mars-Moon
IC in Aries = Mars-Moon

Sun in 1= Mars - Sun
ruler 5 in 1= Mars-Sun

ruler 10 in 1= Mars-Saturn

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

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From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 04, 2010 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, DD! Thanks for this information. It's really close to how I learned astrology but there's some interesting twists and turns in here. I'm gonna save it and read through it slowly. All this Pluto-Saturn-Uranus transits have slowed down my reading and writing considerable over the last 5 to 6 months. It's like I'm in the 1st grade again.

The Orlando Bloom story is quite a kicker, it's a miracle he survived. But then I have a theory that kids are a little bouncier than us adults. Still, 2 to 3 floors is a long drop.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted May 04, 2010 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Geo,

I am glad you are interested in it.
It was what made me stick with astrology; at that time I was on the brink of throwing it all in the "bin", but that approach was very stunning, and inspired my own thinking.

Regarding Orlando Bloom, I think he was a teenager already or young adult, not really that little. And yes it was a miracle.

I am intrigued by his chart cause he is only 2 days older than my brother, and they even share the same Ascendant!

But when I compared both synastries with my chart, there were STILL pretty significant differences.


I found something about this accident on wikipedia:

"Bloom has sustained several injuries: he broke his left arm and cracked his skull three times, broke his nose while playing rugby union, broke his right leg skiing in Switzerland, broke his left leg in a motorbike crash, broke his right wrist while snowboarding.[11] He also broke his back when he slipped trying to reach a roof terrace of a friend's house and fell three floors.[28]"


Hmm, Mars, as ruler of 2nd house in 11th house. All these accidents...

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

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From: New York, NY
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posted May 04, 2010 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message
Does Orland have any Mars-Saturn, Mars-Uranus aspects or Saturn-Uranus aspects. He's certainly broken a lot of bones. I usually find that when people have those aspects in stressful relationship you get those kinds of injuries. Maybe I should find his chart, I'm sure it's available (ya think?) LOL!

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
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posted May 04, 2010 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I read that Orlando Bloom has Dyslexia, and so does his Pirates of the Caribbean co-star, Kiera Knightley. Therefore, he does have a neurological difference even though it's not Down Syndrome. http://www.dyslexiamentor.com/famous/famousdyslexics_003.php


Here is Astro-data on him. He has the same birthday as Patrick Dempsey who has Dyslexia too. http://www.vegaattractions.com/celebrity/stars/orlando.html

I am very interested in the chart of your brother that has Down Syndrome.

Do you think that you could show his chart?

These are definitely things that I am interested in.


I also don't believe that all Down Syndrome people are alike. Chris Burke has Down Syndrome,and he seems very intelligent. He is an actor,musician,and a spokesperson.
I met another man with Down Syndrome,and he was very low functioning. He couldn't even speak words.


back to Orlando Bloom

I wonder if his accident proneness is reflected by the combination of retrograde Mercury conjunct Mars and Saturn square Uranus. Saturn is the dispositor of both his Mercury and Mars. Therefore, Mercury and Mars are connected to Uranus because their dispositor,Saturn is square Uranus.

Uranus rules accidents and unpredictability. Strong Uranus influence could indicate that


Uranus parallel Ascendant with 31 minutes of arc

Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis in 13'55 Sagittarius/Gemini
conjunct/oppose Geocentric South Mars Node in 13'18 Sagittarius.
oppose Heliocentric Uranus Nodes in 13'53 Gemini/Sagittarius

So his Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis aspect both his Heliocentric Uranus Nodes and Geocentric South Mars Node. It also means that he has a Mars-Uranus connection through the nodes and aspects his Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis which makes it personal.


His Sun in 23'04 Capricorn
conjunct the South Geocentric Saturn Node in 23'25 Capricorn
oppose/conjunct the Heliocentric Saturn Nodes in 23'28 Cancer/Capricorn


He has a very strong collective Saturn influence because he was born on a day that the Sun aspected the alignment of South Geocentric Saturn Node and Heliocentric Saturn Nodes.


Cosmobiologist Pamela Rowe said the following:

according to Cosmobiologist Pamela Rowe:
"WORLD EVENTS AND FAMOUS PEOPLE
If the theory holds water we can expect, when glancing down the list of dates when the Geocentric Sun is conjunct the individual Heliocentric Planetary Nodes, that the dates are close to pivotal world events. Also the birthdays of famous and infamous people, who made or continue to make, an impact on the group consciousness of society. The type of impact made is described by the interpretation of the particular Planetary Node. Some interesting world events are ARMISTICE DAY November 11, 1918, the news that World War I had finished, coincides with the Sun conjunct Mercury South Nodes. The D-DAY INVASION OF EUROPE LANDINGS on June 6, 1944, coincides with the Sun conjunct Uranus North Nodes.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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Benedict Moon*
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posted May 04, 2010 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
Ooooh, this is my favorite kind of astrology: comparing similar energies. I've done that before, the only difference is that I do use sign placements sometimes.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted May 05, 2010 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Here are the charts of Orlando:

And my brother:

Geo,

I agree with what you said about the accident-proneness and especially "breaking bones" with Mars-Saturn, Mars-Uranus and Saturn-Uranus. Saturn-Uranus indicating the breaking (Uranus) of material form / bones (Saturn); and Mars of course is too much energy, too. I wonder if in the Mars-uranus and Mars-Saturn accidents there is a bit of "personal fault" involved? Like he was careless and the accident could have been averted if he had been a bit more careful (especially in Mars-Uranus)?
Mars after all indicate our OWN energy (of course, if we don`t own our energy, it might direct itself against us and we might encounter it in form of other people or accidents).

Anyway, besides all Raymond pointed out, Orlando has a LOT of Mars-Uranus constellations.

ASC in Aquarius: Mars-Uranus
ruler of 1 squares ruler of 11: Mars-Uranus
Mars in 11: Mars-Uranus


All of these are pretty individual and tied to his birthtime. I am sure if I keep looking I am going to find even more.

Of course my brother shares these constellations, and indeed, when he was a kid and teenager, he was having two accidents with his bike; both times it could have ended worse than it luckily did. The second accident cost him his front teeth though.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted May 05, 2010 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond,

thanks for pointing out the Dyslexia of Orlando. Yes, I think it can be described that way, too. Even though I think with Dyslexia there might be an involvement of Mercury or 3rd house necessary, too. Well, here Mercury is in 11th house conjunct Mars, and being disposited by SAturn squaring Uranus, as you pointed out, so it is both there.

And yes, people with Downsyndrome have different traits like anyone else, and also different intelligence (within a certain range).

Did you know that the Mayans considered them to be "Demi-god-like"?

Benedict Moon,

yes, this is a personal pet theory of mine.
I think it is of UTMOST importantce even before you do a synastry.
Same constellations will give a sense of familiarity and probably become a theme in the relationship; the complimentary ones may lead to a (potentially) intense attraction.
Something like I have Venus-Pluto and he has Mars-Pluto would be like key and lock, potentially. Of course it should occur in the synastry, too, and if it does, it might be of overwhelming importance.

Personally I do consider signplacements of ASC-DESC, MC-IC, Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus, too. After that it really might get too general.
Of course signplacements for houserulers might be considered, too (imo-TPA doesn`t really do that I think). Especially the signplacement of the ruler of ASC cold be pretty strong. It is in my case at least.

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Benedict Moon*
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posted May 05, 2010 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I completely agree since this is one of the basic ways people can have affinity with one another (not disregarding synastry though). Only, this school of thought has gone more in depth...they've found combinations I would not have thought of before. I didn't get to finish last night, but this will be a happy reading.

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

What do you think of his planetary nodal aspects.
He definitely has some prominent ones.

I really believe that planetary nodes are an underused gem in Astrology.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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DD
Knowflake

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posted May 05, 2010 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond,

yes, they make sense. Even though, wouldn`t my brother have these, also?

That is something I like about astrology. You can look at it from different perspective and arrive at similiar conclusions. Consistency is a great thing.


Benedict Moon,

yes, they are going into some depth. I do not subscribe to EVERYTHING they teach, but I must admit most of it make really sense to me.

It is especially good for getting an overview and identifying the dominant constellations in natal as well as in synastry.
It helps to not get lost in a flood of details.

After that we have to differentiate between ruler of 2 in 8 and Pluto in 7 of course.

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DD
Knowflake

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posted May 05, 2010 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
BTW TPA uses the rule of the 1/6th.
It means that a planet, which is 1/6th before the next cusp is being counted to the next house.
If your 1st house is 30 degree wide, and your Jupiter is 3 degree before 2nd house cusp, they would count it into the 2nd house.

There is a "speciality" with this rule, too, and that is if a planet is EXACTLY a sixth from the next housecusp, it is counted to both houses, like it is standing between doors, swinging like a pendulum back and fourth. Obviously it is very rare to have something like this and apparently my Venus is such a planet, caught between 1st and 2nd house.

Some astrologer explained this rule like this:
Imagine the Sun`s course during the day, it will move from the 8th house to the 7th house, where it sets, and then after sunset to the 6th house. But even after sunset, when it has left the 7th house and entered the 6th house, there will still be light for a certain time. The Sun is already gone (has set), and yet some light remains; this period, where there is still light, would be the planet in the last sixth of a house, still shining its light onto the other house, too.

Well, I am using this rule (loosely), but I count the planet to both houses, unless it`s conjunct the next cusp by 1 degree - then I consider it exclusively to the next house - and I consider it pretty prominent in this house. This is very true for my Uranus, which is on 1°21 Scorpio and my 11th house cusp is on 1°34 SCorpio.


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DD
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posted May 05, 2010 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Okay, synastry or rather natal comparision.


I picked Richard Burton and Liz Taylor as an example (expecting some Pluto action here, maybe along with Neptune, probably Uranus, too).

And I am just listing the constellations (for an easy way to compare). Of course the constellations do not have all the same value. I differentiated them using a point-scale. Well, this has been just my idea.

So I gave these points:

the dominant houseruler in house constellation: 3 points
(for Mars-constellation the ruler of 1st house in another house is always dominant; I found that in some scripts)

other houseruler in houses: 2 points
planets in houses: 2 points
strong aspects: 2 points
Moon, ASC and IC in sign: 2 points
aspects between the houserulers: 1 point


constellations with 3 or more points are dominant, and these are the only ones I list.

So for the natal constellations now


RICHARD BURTON

SUN
-----
-----

Sun-Pluto (6)
Sun-Mercury (4)
Sun-Venus (4)
Sun-Saturn (3)


His Sun-Pluto-constellations are breathtaking!
Sun in 8
Pluto in 5
ruler of 8th (Pluto) house in 5th house

MOON
---------
---------

Moon-Mercury (8)
Moon-Venus (5)
Moon-Jupiter (5)


That is interesting. How is Moon is almost breezy, and then his Sun delivers all that darkness and inner demons.

His ruler of 4th is in 9th house - emotional he needs (4th house) applause and recognition in his environment, confirmation mostly (9th house is the house where you express yourself in the personal-social sphere).
Of course it also shows his need and urge for expansion of his feelings, nothing was ever enough.

And then the ruler of 5th house lands in 6th house - vivid expression of feelings, adapting his feelings to his close environment; great observationskills when it comes to emotional things.

Actually Sun-Mercury and Moon-Mercury (especially ruler of 4th and 5th house in 6th or 3rd house) is often prominent in versatile actors, as it is about the active expression of feelings.
The problem is that with 5th house in 6th house there is simultaneiously a need for privacy and acceptance (something he probably could not fulfill or really be content with, as his Uranus in 1st house always demanded of him to "invent" himself a new again and again, and gave him a great inner restlessness; with Uranus ruling the 12th house, his inner demons may have become very visible).


Anyway, continuing...


VENUS
-------
-------

Venus-Saturn (7)
Venus-Jupiter (5)
Venus-Moon (4)
Venus - Pluto (4)
Venus - Mars (4)

MARS
-------
-------

Mars-Venus (5)
Mars-Uranus (5)
Mars-Neptune (4)
Mars-Pluto (3)
Mars-Mercury (3)


Interesting to note he has dominant Pluto constellations in three of these 4 planets (Sun, Venus and Mars).

ELISABETH TAYLOR

SUN
-------
-------

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond,

yes, they make sense. Even though, wouldn`t my brother have these, also?

Yes

Your brother and Orlando were born 2 days apart, and so your brother might not have the aspects to the Sun.

No more than 2 degree orb should be used with the planetary nodes.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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DD
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posted May 05, 2010 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
ELISABETH TAYLOR

SUN
----
----

Sun-Mercury (4)
Sun-Neptune (3)
Sun-Moon (3)

MOON
--------
--------

Moon-Mercury (6)
Moon-Venus (6)
Moon-Uranus (4)
Moon-Pluto (3)
Moon-Jupiter (3)

Unsurprisingly she also has dominant Sun-Mercury and Moon-Mercury.
Her ruler of 4th house lands in 3rd house (the opposite placing of his 4h house ruler, what would be an attraction factor on its own already); it is an emotional need for her to verbalize feelings or express them clearly.
And with Sun-Mercury, you don`t only have the emotional urge to do so, but you actually do that, expressing your feelings creatively, sometimes also intellectually.

With Moon-uranus and Moon-Pluto together it is clear that she is shaken by great inner tensions. The conflict between all devouring passion and intensity and a need for new experiences and detachment.

VENUS
------
-------

Venus-Mercury (8)
Venus-Venus (5)
Venus-Pluto (4)
Venus-Moon (4)
Venus-Uranus (3)
Venus-Neptune (3)

Like her Moon her Venus has this tension between Uranus and Pluto, even though intensity seems to win out a bit here.
Well, maybe serial (Uranus) intensity (Pluto)?

MARS
------
------

Mars-Mercury (6)
Mars-Pluto (6)
Mars-Sun (4)

Jeez, Mars-Pluto (6) in a female chart? (sorry if I sounded chauvinistic just a moment ago ). Anyway she clearly is one very determined,almost singleminded person. Very strong will, overwhelming passions. Not someone you want to mess around with!
This explains - to a degree- some of the mutually volatile and violent scenes she had with some of her husbands, even publicly. She`s certainly not the "victim-type".
Even though there may be a tendency for co-dependency (and noone can maintain unhealthy relationships like Pluto-types can).

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
Your brother's Sun is in 25'06 Capricorn

Heliocentric Saturn Nodes are 23'28 Capricorn
Geocentric

Geocentric North Saturn Node in 23'16 Cancer
Geocentric South Saturn Node in 23'36 Capricorn


His Sun is in a separating opposition/conjunction to the Heliocentric Saturn Nodes, opposition to the Geocentric North Saturn Node,and conjunction to the Geocentric South Saturn

all 3 aspects orbs are more than 1 1/2 degree apart and separating


Orlando Bloom has Sun in 23'05 Capricorn

All 3 of Orlando Bloom's are less than 1/2 degree orb and applying


that can be a significant difference

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
as for the nodes of Mars and Uranus

your brother's Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis in 12'29 Sagittarius/Gemini
conjunct/oppose Geocentric South Mars Node in 13'59 Sagittarius
oppose/conjunct Heliocentric Uranus Nodes in 13'53 Gemini


Orlando's Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis in 13'55 Sagittarius/Gemini
conjunct/oppose Geocentric South Mars Node in 13'18 Sagittarius
oppose/conjunct Heliocentric Uranus Nodes in 13'53 Gemini

Orlando's aspects are much narrower in orb than your brother's. all of them are under 1 degree. The one involving the heliocentric Uranus nodes is just 2 minutes from being exact. That's a very strong influence. It's definitely much narrower than your brother's with 1'24 orb.

Some astrologers believe that no more than 1 degree orb should be used with planetary nodes too.

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DD
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posted May 05, 2010 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond,

I think I start agreeing on using the 1 degree orb for planetary node orbs.
I find it interesting, how they have been born so close, and yet there are all these differences. It strengthens my faith in astrolgoy even more.

I also found it funny, that Orlando`s Mars is still widely conjunct my Venus on 6°07 Capricorn, and that my brother`s Mars is out of orb (at least I think so) for a conjunction.

On the other hand my Moon on 17°06 Aquarius is conjunct my brother`s ASC, but not so close to Orlando`s ASC.

I found that highly interesting, even from a synastric perspective.

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

DD,

Yeah

I am thinking of changing the maximum orbs to 1 degree.

I learned a lot from the differences between your brother and Orlando.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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DD
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posted May 05, 2010 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Raymond,

you are talking about the orbs of planetary nodes, right? not for planetary aspects?

Anyway, I found these two charts interesting, too.

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"Raymond,

you are talking about the orbs of planetary nodes, right? not for planetary aspects?"

Yeah, but I am not sure about that. I think 2 degree orbs are valid. Narrower orb aspects would just be a lot stronger any way.

They have other differences like your brother has configurations that Orlando doesn't have.

"Anyway, I found these two charts interesting, too."


I looked deeply into your brother's chart


Sun in 25'05 Capricorn
oppose Orcus in 26'56 Cancer
square Chiron in 27'19 Aries

So he has a T-SQUARE of Chiron square Sun-Orcus opposition


there is more

Orcus is sesquiquadrate Midheaven with 32 minutes of arc and sesquiquadrate Venus with 2 minutes of arc

so he has Venus,Orcus,Midheaven in 8th harmonic aspect to each other with a corresponding midpoint picture of Orcus oppose Venus/Midheaven midpoint

his Orcus trines his Moon with 1'28 orb.


His Sun squares the Geocentric South Chiron Node in 26'00 Aries which which is 17 minutes away from conjuncting Chiron itself within 1 degree.


Orlando doesn't have any of those configurations.

Jupiter in 21'10 Taurus squares Makemake in 21'17 Leo which oppooses his Ascendant with 2'27 orb , but Orlando has his much closer...I can't help thinking that with a much closer Makemake-Ascendant opposition, Orlando has a very magnetic persona
Your brother was born just 2 hours before Jupiter went direct. That would be considered Jupiter stationary. So the aspects would be much stronger.

I also checked his Right Ascension chart"

Sun in 27'02 Capricorn
Orcus in 26'57 Cancer
Chiron in 25'25 Aries
so his Sun-Orcus is much closer in Right Ascension. It's only 5 minutes of arc.
He has the t-square of Chiron square Sun-Orcus opposition in Right Ascension too.

His Orcus trines Moon in 26'44 Scorpio with 12 minutes of arc


I can't help thinking that hard aspects to the the big transneptunian objects indicate great obstacles that relate to being nonconformist,unusual, with strong evolutionary intensified lessons/experiences

in the declinations, Your brother has Moon contraparallel Saturn with 10 minutes of arc which can indicate possible restrictions,limitations in how he feels. Moon is also one of the objects associated with neurological processes too. It could indicate possible brain dysfunctions.
Moon rules bodily fluids too.

BTW...in the book, SMART BUT FEELING DUMB which is on Cerebellar Vestibular Dysfunction-Dyslexic Syndrome, Dr. Harold Levinson wrote about treating a kid with Down Syndrome for cerebellar vestibular dysfunction (inner ear problems).
Saturn is the planet that rules the ears. I read that many people with Down Syndrome have history of problems with hearing loss caused by fluid in the inner ear, and that would fit with his Moon (bodily fluids) contraparallel Saturn (ears).

Your brother is highly sensitive with Sun parallel Neptune with 2 minutes of arc. Of course, his strong Orcus influence also shows extreme sensitivity too.

I wonder about his Neptune square Vertex/Antivertex axis with 27 minutes of arc.

He also has a prominent Neptune with Neptune conjunct/oppose Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis too.


I think that you have to take genetics into account too.

I always wondered what astrological indicators would indicate the appearance of people with syndromes that are known to involve distinctive appearances like Down Syndrome, Angelman Syndrome,Williams Syndrome.

That's why I am very skeptical about looking at the chart for appearance.

Racial,ethnic factors are also reasons that I am skeptical

President Barack Obama's Ascendant is in the same degree as your brother's.

Your brother has Eris in 13'09 Aries trine Midheaven in 12'29 Sagittarius. aim of life in connected to being unusual in some way. some people with those aspects can be advocates. I have Eris sextile Midheaven myself. Interestingly, I didn't learn about my neurodivergence until I had the Solar Return Period that had Eris trine Midheaven less than 1 degree in 2002/2003. My current Solar Return period of 2009/2010 also has Eris trine Midheaven less than 1 degree, and I started my nonprofit neurodiversity organization. I am very sure that Eris is involved with diversity,divergence,advocacy,and equality.

Has your brother had any therapies,interventions that have helped improved his functioning? I think that any intervention could help people with special education needs in some way - no matter the level of intelligence. I wonder if treatment for possible inner ear problems could actually help him too.


------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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Glaucus
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posted May 05, 2010 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
something told me to check the 9th harmonic chart

I was actually thinking about looking at harmonic charts in regards to finer details like looking at chromosomes. I was actually going over this stuff in my head when I was getting a massage. I was constantly pondering over what could make his chart so different from Orlando's. I kept thinking about the harmonic charts.

according to Robert Hand

The Nine Series is about completions, endings; what life produces in the long run; needs and capacities in relationships and marriage.


The Vedic Astrologers look at the 9th harmonic chart which they call Navamsha as a 2nd main chart.

I thought that your brother might have a Sun conjunct Saturn in the 9th harmonic.


I found the following in his chart

Sun in 15'51 Leo
Saturn in 13'49 Leo
Neptune in 16'06 Leo


that means that he has those planets in 9th harmonic aspect to each other

he does:

Saturn trine Neptune - '13
(same as trinovile - 3/9

Sun quadranovile Saturn - '13
4/9

Sun novile Neptune - '01
1/9

so Sun-Saturn-Neptune in 9th harmonic triangle.

I also wondered about his Moon in 15'47 Pisces in a yod with his conjunction of Sun in 15'51 Leo and Neptune in 16'10 Leo sextile Venus in 16'38 Libra


I also found something else:

Pluto in 14'11 Libra oppose Eris in 13'09 Aries


Moon semisquare Pluto - '46
Moon sesquiquadrate Eris - '15


so he has Moon,Pluto,Eris in 8th harmonic aspect configuration and involves 2 transneptunian dwarf planets.

That would indicate evolutionary intensified lessons/experiences which can be challenging for the 8th harmonic is hard aspect harmonic being 1/2 of the 4th harmonic.

He was born 22 hours before Pluto went retrograde too.
Solar Fire has his Pluto being stationary.
Therefore, the Pluto aspects are even stronger.


Of course, Orlando doesn't have any of those configurations except for the Saturn trine Neptune.


2 days can make a big difference indeed, especially when you consider other harmonic charts like the 9th harmonic.


------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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DD
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posted May 07, 2010 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, Raymond, what a profound, detailed analysis!

I wonder if the 9th harmonics could explain differences in twins, too?

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DD
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posted May 07, 2010 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
Continuing with the comparision for Richard Burton and Elisabeth Taylor.
Checking which constellations may find resonance with the other and to what degree; and which ones are lacking.
Also, I think if there a difference of 3 points or more, there might be a disbalance.


His points are first, hers next:


Sun- Pluto (6:-
Sun-Mercury 4:4
Sun-Venus 4:-
Sun-Saturn 3:-
Sun-Neptune -:3
Sun-Moon:-:3

Moon-Mercury 8:6
Moon-Venus 5:6
Moon-Jupiter 5:3

Moon-Uranus -:4
Moon-Pluto -:3


Venus-Saturn 7:
Venus-Jupiter 5:-
Venus-Moon 4:4
Venus-Pluto 4:4

Venus-Mars 4:-
Venus-Mercury -:8
Venus-Venus -:5
Venus-Uranus -:3
Venus-Neptune -:3

Mars-uranus 5:-
Mars-Neptune 4:-
Mars-Pluto 3:6
Mars-Mercury 3:6

Mars - Sun -:4

The constellations that are of interest are either the same or the complimentary ones.
Complimentary means for example:
He: Sun-Saturn
She: Moon-Saturn
or
He: Venus-Uranus
She: Mars-Uranus

The same constellations show similiarity and shared traits, while the complimentary ones are like "key-and-lock", speaking of magnetic attraction.


So let`s see if he finds resonance in her:

same

Sun-Mercury (even the strength is identical)
Moon-Mercury
Moon-Venus
Moon-Jupiter
Venus-Pluto

Mars-Mercury
Mars-Pluto (both have these constellations, but in her case hey are much stronger than for him; he does have overwhelming Sun-Pluto though).

Sun and Moon-constellations are more about general character and emotional connection, while Venus and Mars constellations pertain strongest to relationship matters and are also responsible for romantic attraction.

They had much similiar ground ont he basis of Moon-constellations, which might point to a similiar emotional makeup or background. Maybe even explains the "soulmate" feeling that she just recently was talking about.

complimentary

Sun-Pluto (6) to Moon-Pluto (3)
Sun-Mercury (4) to Moon-Mercury (6)
Sun-Venus (4) to Moon-Venus (6)
Venus-Pluto (4) to Mars-Pluto (6)
Mars-Mercury (3) to Venus-Mercury (8)
Mars-Uranus (5) to Venus-Uranus (3)
Mars-Neptune (4) to Venus-Neptune (3)
Venus-Mars (4) to Venus-Venus (5)

Interestingly there seems to be a very traditional distribution of the genderroles here.


Also, they share an even number of same aspects and complimentary ones; so I guess their relationship based as much on attration as on a certain familiarity (even though it might have been very intense and explosive with so much Pluto in there).


without resonance

(Sun-Pluto (3)) - the rest of his Sun-Pluto constellations her Moon-Pluto does not cover (the difference is 3 or more, that is why I listed it here).

Sun-Saturn (3)
Venus-SAturn (7)
Venus-Jupiter (4)

Maybe he did miss SATURN in this relationship? Maybe he expected (Venus) her to somehow give him stability (Saturn), which she couldn´t give him due to her own unconventional, intense and unstable nature, which was so similiar to his in many ways? Which gave him the feeling they were "one of a kind", and yet he would also have needed that "boring traditional security" in a relationship?

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