posted May 23, 2010 01:32 PM            

Lucrezia Borgia, Natal Chart:

Cesare Borgia, Natal Chart:

Lucrezia and Cesare, Synastry:

Cesare has Eros and Amor, as also Neptune in 3rd, house of sister.

posted May 23, 2010 04:05 PM            

I would hesitate to use the word "normal", cause the norm is defined by social values; thus our values may be different from these of older times.

From my perspective I also think it is not normal, but I am just as influenced by our social norms as everyone else.
For someone in an Egyptian royal family it might have been different.

posted May 23, 2010 04:12 PM            

DD, yeah in Egypt they did, and even a few Roman emperors adopted this way of keeping up the royal lineage. And of course the British monarchy as well did so in the past.
People knew so little at that time, or chose not to know maybe since the bloodlines had to be kept pure. It's an interesting subject, though creepy too

posted May 23, 2010 04:14 PM            

The Egyptian royal family had genetic abnormalities that was likely to be result of incest. I was reading that King Tut had some.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

posted May 23, 2010 04:36 PM            

Her father (Pope Alexander) might be another story.

Sometimes you will see kissing cousins with a 3rd house Venus.

posted May 23, 2010 08:55 PM            

quote:

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One or both of them must be sick. You can not see something like that in a healthy individuals or families. This is against the law of our nature....

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Popcorn, think of Adam and Eve. Don't do that planting trees rubbish, but that makes me, you, and all after related in some way.

Thanks for them natals, without confirmation of times, unless certificate present.
They had a different kind of relationship, with sex as the focus, for this topic.
Look at 8th rulers for each in relation to the other. Seems good if accurate times. Trine.

I have brother and sister born at same time, with same planets, so would expect some attraction there. Everyone is human, even with the most attractive people as relations, easy to see why some people would. Worst things happen.

posted May 24, 2010 04:44 AM            

That there was Incest in Royal families is the proof between Habsburgers (Austro-Hungarian Royalty) and Spanish Royalty for many, many years.
F.e., children from brother and sister have married. Interesting here is: as long as they had such a marriage it was good for both, for Spain and Habsburgers.
Later, they began to look for their wives and husbands in other countries.
About father, Giorgio Borgia (Pope Alexander VI) and Lucrezia was nothing sexually. There is only one part, when he told both of them to sleep (sex) together before Lucrezia has married. That night he was watching both of them. The reason was, Lucrezia should know how it looks like, before marriage. Bad was that they fell in love with each other.
Their father had enough mistresses for his sexual life.
I believe in that because even today there are sisters and brothers they have sex with each other. No problem!

posted May 24, 2010 05:02 AM            

--Thanks for them natals, without confirmation of times, unless certificate present.--

You know that Rodrigo Borgia had his Astrologer? He told to the Astrologer to make Horoscopes for his children.
F.e. Cesare knew when he is going to die. He wasn't afraid of death. As he didn't love his wife and nobody else, except Lucrezia, his life had no sense. He loved to be soldier, to be always in danger and one day he was really killed. Too young!

As I am now by Popes, there were Popes from the family de Medici, more of them. Rodrigo Giorgio has poisoned more his rivals; later Catherina de Medici has done the same.
When Cesare Borgia was going to the school, his best friend was one boy from de Medici.

B.

posted May 24, 2010 07:33 AM            

quote:

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lol @ adam and eve being a myth. So was noahs arc but they found it last month.

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I didn't mean to be sacreligious, I actually still have some ties to my Roman Catholic background. I've just thought of the creation story as a myth meant to teach a lesson. *shrugs* I guess I shouldn't force that on other people before this thread seriously derails...LMAO.

Bonadea,

posted May 24, 2010 09:09 AM            

There is many times no proof for something happened so far back.
You have better to look their Synastry Chart that doesn't lie. Look 1st and 7th house from each of them; look very good aspects between their planets. Usually I don't give any Asteroids because good Synastry is good without them.

One example not far back (sister and brother): I was on the Reception and one young woman came every morning with very good mood from her room. I was asking room maid, why is this girl so happy? She told me that she is sleeping with her brother (they were in one room) and therefore is she so happy. As I knew before (in my village) that father has slept with his daughter, I wasn't surprised.

What is bad: sometimes are children not normal from such a relationship.

About Lucrezia: she slept with Cesar before marriage and during first marriage. After she met her second husband and fell in love with him, after that was over with Cesare.

B.

posted May 24, 2010 09:48 AM            

quote:

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About Lucrezia: she slept with Cesar before marriage and during first marriage. After she met her second husband and fell in love with him, after that was over with Cesare

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My point is, if there is no historical basis for such a claim then you shouldn't be spinning it as fact. Alot of times women in history have had their names dragged through the mud because of the actions of their idiot male relatives and Lucrezia is no exception, and that is why alot of what is said about her should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Alot of historians have come to the conclusion based on her diary and other documents that this was most likely propoganda spread by rival families.

posted May 24, 2010 06:14 PM            

My Dad`s Mars is conjunct my Pluto and squares my Venus; my Moon on his Venus is opposing his Pluto;

my brother`s ASC and Sun are on my Juno. His Mars squares my Venus and opposes my Pluto.

my other brother`s Mars is conjunct my Venus and squares my Pluto. his ASC is on my Moon (my 8th house ruler).

I can assure you there was never anything incestuous going on between us.
These aspects find a different expression.

posted May 24, 2010 07:13 PM              

LOL.

Have you read the 12th planet? He reckons we came from a god that lived on planet niribu and that the mayans originate from there, he claims they found us and they did IVF with us to create us an humans. The same similiar story but the female god of planet niribu conceived us in sets of twins and they apparently created religion to try and control us but we outsmarted them.