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Author Topic:   Can you see murder in someone's chart?
VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
I am just wondering. I am trying to find out if there is some kind of really twisted karmic thing between my chart and a person who tried to kill me. I posted this over in the "free readings" but I got no reply, and also I don't want to be sounding like I'm a user. Maybe someone on here knows of a place or a person I could go to privately to get some in depth on it?

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belgz
Knowflake

Posts: 2448
From: Planet love :)
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 08, 2010 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Can you post a synastry chart?

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cappy1277
Knowflake

Posts: 232
From: philadelphia,pa
Registered: Jul 2009

posted September 08, 2010 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cappy1277     Edit/Delete Message
I have transiting pluto conjunct my mars capricorn in the 8th. I was told to stay away from dangerous places as things of that nature could happen.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
well, unfortunately the person's time of birth is not known. Not even a guess. Both of their parents are dead, and they were born on a farm with no record...

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
I can only tell you that this is mine:

and that this is theirs, but based on date/location only.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 4732
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 08, 2010 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I'd check out any overlays in the 8th house which is the house associated death

7th house is the house associated with open enemies

12th house is the house associated with hidden enemies


I'd also looked at the big transneptunians objects and see if they are in hard in synastry, but the aspect orbs have to be narrow. This goes for Pluto too.

There could also be hard transneptunian aspects in the composite chart.

Raymond

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

Developmental Neurodiversity Association facebook group. http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=131944976821905&ref=ts

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
Man, if I could tell you how many people have come on here to complain of that sag sun/scorpio moon combination...

Including myself.

I think there are 4 total in the last week. A sag sun mixed with a lot of planets in 8th house... or scorpio - people need to tread carefully...

If that person does not and cannot demonstrate the capacity to have empathy and responsibility for their actions - RUN AWAY FROM THEM.

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
Sorry... the above should say Sag sun/Scorpio Venus... or other similar sag + scorpio combos.

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
VioletFlyer,

It would seem from your true node, that maybe you're destined to become a mother? Do you have children, and if so, do you have them with this man "G"?

If you don't mind me asking, how did you escape this person? Did you expect them to attack you? Did you have any warning?

I ask, because the sociopath that I know, that I believe would have made an attempt to take my life, was a Sag sun/Scorpio Venus, and had other planets in that 8th house... I have always been terrified of him coming after me, and have also wondered about a "karmic" reason for it.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Pluto. No, I don't have children yet, but I "know" that I will. And within the next 2 years.
This "G" is my father...
I had no warning. I don't know what it was that made him stop but I lost consciousness, left my body and nearly died. I watched my "almost murder" from above my own body.

How did I escape? I moved to Australia!! But I am still struggling with it. In fact, I only remembered this year what it was that happened. I had repressed the memory (which i have a strong tendency to do, as there were other severe abuses in my childhood, from my mother and other members of her side of the family).
That's why i asked about Karmic stuff, because he's the oldest son and I am his eldest daughter and there is some pretty intense stuff there.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Like, I am the only person in the family he has ever been violent with. He is emotionally cruel and the most controlling person I know (will emotionally cut people to shreds, me included which is NOT an easy thing to do!) but with me, it extends to extreme violence as well. Which he denies of course.

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
My God, VioletFlyer. That's a terrible story, and I'm sorry to hear what you've gone through.

Please, it may help you understand things better, but go to: www.lovefraud.com Many stories are from women that experienced relationships with sociopaths, but there are a lot of people who have parents, children with the disorder. Read as much as you can about anti-social personality disorder, because I think you'll probably see a lot of similarities with the person who abused you there - especially with the abuse, then denial... even mental torture.

I am recovering from a sociopathic abuser, and I know how difficult it can be...

You might want to post "G"'s astro chart including the asteroid Nessus. "iQ" uses that information to gauge a lot...

When did this event take place, because I'm curious to check your transits for more information.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Or if he doesn't deny it, he will say it was "justified" because of my behavior. That is probably the scariest part. He will be sweet and nice, and then turn on me with no warning and cut me down. The anger is incredible. If I ever try to "go up against" him verbally or mentally, he turns to stone and will rip me to shreds verbally in 5 seconds. It is truly awful. He likes to remind me how much I "hurt him" so that I'll feel guilty and become vulnerable and then "POW".

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Pluto. I am actually really "OK" these days because i have spent a lifetime trying to learn and heal and have a wonderfully supportive Taurus "rock" in my life who has been a great support. But the aquarius in me is still trying to "understand" it (probably there is no explanation!!).

I believe this happened when I was between the ages of 10-12. It's a bit fuzzy on the age. Maybe 11?

Thanks for your suggestion about the website. I'll check it out. When I was a little girl, my dad and I were inseparable. And there is still a type of love there, though it is totally on his terms I guess. I mean, I don't hate him. I've learned to forgive so that "I" could get on with my life. But a part of you never really gets over it because it fractures your soul I think.

Where do you think I should post the chart and Nessus questions to "IQ"? I've seen his work on here and it is pretty amazing. I'd pay him on the spot to help me on this one!! I often wonder why it was that in my childhood I experienced violence at the hands of so many. I was like a beacon for it! And as an adult I'm such a sweetie!! :-)

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
Violet,

I would post the chart here. iQ has been away because he is very busy in real life, but as soon as he comes back, he is very gracious and giving in his attention to these particular matters.

If he doesn't comment in the next few days, keep on checking back.

Otherwise, I'd like to take a look at your father's NESSUS placements, and gather what I can...

Also, I'm going to look at your transits.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 2080
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 08, 2010 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Just some things that stand out,
-his unaspected Sagittarian Sun conj your MC, this can make him feel like you may acquiesce to him more than others, so he may feel more comfortable with lording some extra influence over you partially as a way to further define himself
-his Pluto is quite close to your Dsc, it squares his Venus/Mercury and your Uranus. I wonder if he experienced some type of abuse as Venus/Pluto can be a marker for that. Then your Uranus conj his Venus/Mercury may bring up many issues for him in an erratic manner, in a way that he maybe isn't able to process them very well
-I see that your nodes are in opposition, and they're squared by your Pluto conj his Neptune. Natally a square to the nodal axis many times acts as a huge block that needs to be overcome, yours is Pluto, so dealing with owning your own Pluto in a positive manner is going to be tricky. This is compounded by the heavy h8/scorpio dynamic, in relation to the father h8 sun can feel at times abandoned by him and more than others can feel the loss of the relationship with the father quite strongly as they wanted to paint themselves as the father, so when that relationship is gone they can feel diminished of any strength. My hunch is that Pluto or Uranus in his chart is angular, most likely uranus.
-he has Mars sq Uranus, this can be an aspect for an unpredictable temper, his Mars is conjunct your Mercury and Saturn, so he may feel on some level overwhelmed with the responsibility he has for you and may lash out. Mars is Libra makes sense with what you're saying regarding his denial of outbursts, they don't really want to appear offensive.
-his Saturn conj your Sun, this can be an oppressive aspect in synastry
There's more but already this is a lot.
What about asteroid Karma in the birth charts.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Pluto. Everyone on here is super generous. You are all so kind and supportive of one another. Astrology has really helped me a lot over the years. Even just the simple fact that I was the only water person in a house of fire (mother Leo, father sag, grandma who I also lived with- Leo) was like "oh, right, of course they found all of my emotions alien"...

How would I find out his Nessus? I think because no one knows his birth time, it is a shame, because a synastry isn't possible.

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
My guess would be this event happened around the year: 1994. You would be 12 maybe going on 13...? This was when Pluto in Scorpio was conjunct your natal uranus (also in scorpio) in your 9th house. Pluto in scorpio was also squaring your ascendant. Some harsh transits, at that time, for sure...

Saturn was opposing your natal mars, and squaring your midheaven. It must have been very hard for you to do anything at all to better your situation...

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
If you'd like to look at your transits for yourself (it's completely free), and research them, go to: www.astrotheme.com.

They have an interactive ephemerides tool that will show you where the planets were in respects to your natal chart, for any year, you'd like... check your chart in 1994 and look at those transits! They're terrible.

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 08, 2010 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
Violet,

If you go to www.astro.com and before you run the natal chart, in the extended chart options, scroll down and select Nessus to be included in the make of the chart, also select Chiron.

You can also do a synastry chart there, including those asteroids.

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 09, 2010 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
OK, I went to that website and updated our charts to include Nessus and Chiron. It still won't let me do a Synastry without both birth times...

Thanks to you both for your incredibly helpful points! 1994 WAS a bad year and I was trapped. I wasn't able to leave until 1998 and when I left, I never went back...

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VioletFlyer
Knowflake

Posts: 73
From: Adelaide, Australia
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 09, 2010 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VioletFlyer     Edit/Delete Message
Lonake- I have always felt that I conflicted him more than any other person in his life. He was very hard on me, (obviously) but he was also completely befuddled by me and because he couldn't understand me or try to use reason with me (it was always yes or no with him and i always wanted to know WHY and have a logical explanation) he would resort to violence or "teaching me lessons".
I do believe he loved me, I just don't think he really knows that love is not to possess and dominate, it's to set something free.
I also believe his father abused him with violence. I found out this year that my his father served in the Navy on D-Day in Normandy and then went to Iwo Jima. can you imagine? He came back a violent shell of a person and died of alcohol in his 60's. I saw him standing at the foot of my bed when he died in navy dress whites (i didn't know he was ever in the navy, this was always kept hidden from all the grandchildren) when I was about 12. he said "i'm sorry, tell them I love them". Believe me when I say that my psychic abilities have been brutally put down by family. They are all born-agains.
Oh yeah, and my dad was my SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER!!! I think, he loved me but I brought up ALL this stuff in him because I was like an alien baby who just didn't float on his vibe or world view AT ALL. No one listened to the message from Grandpa. I was ridiculed for it and part of the family still won't let their kids come near me because I'm a "witch" (well, yeah, actually, I guess I am! And proud of it!).

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PlutoSquared
Knowflake

Posts: 474
From: Mars
Registered: Aug 2010

posted September 09, 2010 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message
Violet,

Just fyi... noticed Neptune conjuncts Venus in your natal chart.

MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT put yourself back into co-dependent love situations with other people who are not worthy of your love...

Neptune influences on Venus (I have Venus in Pisceas in the 7th, sheesh) and this pretty much can make you a sucker for losers.

Protect yourself. Hold people accountable for their actions, and never take on the burden for people who actively work towards theirs and others destruction...

You are a Scorpio, so make sure you always plan for your survival - that should come naturally for you!!! :P

I noticed your father's squaring of Uranus and Mars energy, sheesh.

I will comment more tomorrow, but bedtime for me, now.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 2080
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 09, 2010 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message
Violet,
quote:
but I brought up ALL this stuff in him because I was like an alien baby who just didn't float on his vibe or world view AT ALL.

I can see the disconnect in the charts. And also what you speak of him does point to a venus/pluto aspect, and his is of course in fixed signs (meaning the aspect is more entrenched), with venus in pluto's sign. Pity no birth time..

Do you know how to add asteroids?
Can you add asteroid Karma I believe it's 3811
Just post the placements, I know how annoying it is for me to keep posting charts

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 4732
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 09, 2010 01:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

His Mars conjuncts Ixion in 19'26 Libra.

Ixion is a transneptunian dwarf planet.
It's a plutino,and so it has 2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune just like Pluto does.
Therefore, it's very similar to Pluto astronomically,and so it should be astrologically. As a plutino, Ixion was given the name of an underworld character. Ixion was named after the Lapith King who was the first murderer in Greek mythology. He killed his father-in-law to avoid a dowry. Zeus agreed to purify Ixion after no mortal would do it. Ixion showed ingratitude to Zeus by coming onto to Hera. Zeus tested Ixion with a fake Hera named Nephele,and Ixion mated with it. Through that union came Centaurus who mated with a mare and the centaurs were born. Nessus is actually the grandson of Ixion. Ixion bragged about sleeping with Hera,and so Zeus had Ixion bound to a fiery wheel in Tartarus which was where the wicked souls were sent and punished for eternity.

The wheel is compared to the reincarnation wheel. Ixion is said to be associated with the karmic wheel as well as second chances. Ixion was given a second chance, but he blew it.

Ixion is a dark archetype.


Mars conjunct Ixion is like a Mars conjunct Pluto in regards to its passion,intensity and its potential for being lusty and dangerous.

His Mars aspects geocentric nodes which most astrologers overlook, but they are actually astrologically relevant. Astronomers actually record the nodes of all objects that they discover.


His Mars squares the South Saturn Node in 19'45 Capricorn and North Pluto Node in 20'33 Cancer. His assertion,passion are in connected to collective Saturn energy and collective Plutonian energy, and it suggest collective karmic issues involving discipline,control,transformation,intensity.


Too bad no birth time

His Venus doesn't just square Pluto. It also squares Haumea in 25'35 Leo which conjuncts his Pluto. He actually has Venus square Pluto-Haumea conjunction. Haumea is a transneptunian dwarf planet like Pluto, and so it is Pluto's equal. Haumea was named after the Hawaiian fertility creation.


Pluto and its fellow transneptunians are about evolutionary intensified lessons.


any ways....not much else to see. Birth time is needed.


------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

Developmental Neurodiversity Association facebook group.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=131944976821905&ref=ts

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