posted September 22, 2010 12:45 PM         

And good and bad are only relevant to which side of the fence your on.

Your bad is good to them or vice versa.

There is no real good or bad, Only what the humans in question deem is good or bad, The whole notion is an idea and nothing more, Its only bad when "good" people deem it wrong, But what about the other humans that deem it good? Are they not to be considered Bad? Chances are YES. Humans have lived this way forever.

posted September 22, 2010 12:45 PM         

that is only the "lowest" form of expression. Of coursePluto has higher forms of expressions just as all the other planets / objects.

But the further away objects are, the more challenging it seems to express them in a "higher" form.

Anyway, "downgrading" and "stalking" are only the negative expressions.
Pluto can be very transforming and even healing (as it seems to burn out all the things that are unneeded and "unreal"). Of course this "burning out" often is being experienced as painful. But that is just because humans tend to cling to their old ways and habits, even if they are unhealthy.
But Pluto does not allow this.

Plutonian people will propell you to this transformation, but they can do it in different ways.
The "negative" Plutonians will push you towards the needed transformation through the negative behaviour you described, powerplays, manipulation, jealousy, control, stalking, that is right.

But the "positive" Plutonians will lead you to this kind of transformation through their absolute honest, soulsearching, understanding (on a very deep, maybe ven primal level), uncompromising passions.
You will understand how you compromised your own instincts and needs before, how you limited yourself and maybe even "lived a lie".
But Pluto is only giving you what you "need" not what you "want" or think you need.
People often mistake their wishes and expectations for their true needs.

Pluto does not care about your illusions and selfdeceptions, he sort of x-rays through all the "******** ", the pretending, even if YOU (generic you) believe this is your true.
After an encounter with Pluto you will know what your real deep truth is.

Of course not everyone likes that. Sometimes you donīt really want to say what is hidden in your darker soulcorners, and you may want to keep it where it is, in the closet.
That of course is nothing that Pluto can understand or accept.

posted September 22, 2010 12:51 PM         

Powerful. YES, *I* am in the process of it, Rasperri, I think lol

posted September 22, 2010 12:53 PM         

Give it time. It didn`t register with me instantly either.

I also observed it in other relationships, highly Plutonian, and oftentimes the negative Plutonian expression was present, BUT in the end the transformation took place, and life took a turn to the better.

posted September 22, 2010 12:58 PM         

You may not know. You may want to retreat. All that is OK but NOT lies-no lies.

It can't be cheapened with lie and if it IS, it ceases to be a Plutonian relationship.

posted September 22, 2010 12:58 PM         

Took me up to the point im at now DD, and it continues even in this moment.

"Powerful. YES, *I* am in the process of it, Rasperri, I think lol"

For me the process is never ending.

Raspberri, I know this might be hard to understand but one person's "healing" could equal "getting my soul pulled through a meat grinder" to someone else.

posted September 22, 2010 01:02 PM         

I asked God to show me when I would be ready for a relationship( that would work and be good ,obviously lol).

I got an impression and the impression(vision but not in the sense of a religious vision lol)
was of me lying in bed next to someone I love.

I was just looking in to his eyes BUT I was whole. I was authentic.

I cannot go to these Pluto/ Venus/Mars/Moon places until I feel a grounding in myself.

It is like driving 100 miles an hour in a teetering old vehicle.

You need to be grounded in yourself before you take a ride with these energies.

They are too powerful.

*I* feel that way, anyway.

posted September 22, 2010 01:20 PM         

Umm, this is the guy stalking you correct Rasp?

"You need to be grounded in yourself before you take a ride with these energies"
-This helps, but you dont always get to do it, see raspberries case. Also some areas ive delved into.. lets say there was no way to prepare.. its supposed to be that way at times.

"They are too powerful"
-Thats based on perception and knowledge, Again one persons idea of "power" is defined differently by another, and subject to change.

*I* feel that way, anyway.
-Its good you are aware.

-this isnt meant to confuse, Reality is what the individual see's.

Its why we dont come from Cookie Cutters.

And all this is just my opinion, its how ive learned so far to understand what my brain interprets.

posted September 22, 2010 01:28 PM         

btw as much as I respect and admire and love Pluto, I think that the "personal love" is being found elsewhere in the chart namely,
Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, ASC, DESC, 5th and 4th house and respective rulers.

Anyway Mblake,

exactly, one person`s "healing" can be another person`s "wringer".

Anyway I think I have been through Pluto`s "school" quite a bit, actually still am, as in recent years (since 1998) Tr Pluto has been:

- conjunct my Mars
- conjunct my ASC
- conjunct my Neptune
- conjunct my NN
- conjunct my Mercury
- conjunct my Sun

posted September 22, 2010 01:37 PM         

Honestly ask yourself if you think its possible to find a position to stop at?

"Whats good enough that i need no more"

Do you think you can stop wanting to learn more about whatever interests you?

Of course those are simple questions, im basically trying to say "its never ending" and i would like your feed back

posted September 22, 2010 01:43 PM         

imo

remembering that you are whole happens while you are living.

For some years I have been thinking like you, that I would analyze and understand everything, how it came so far, what went wrong, why I wasn`t whole, why it happened etc. etc,
but someone told me (okay I was having some kind of "vision" I guess), that I was just deluding myself and locking myself up in my own cage of yesterday`s feelings and thoughts.
And that no matter what happened in the past, NOW is what counts, and the only one who really could limit me was I myself.

And he asked me to choose, if I wanted to stay stuck in yesterday or starting to live.

I told him that I couldn`t start living until I know where it would lead me to, where it would end, how it would be, before I was "whole".

And he said to me:
"Honey, NOONE knows that and is supposed to know. that is the trick about life, it is created while you live it. But when you are revolving around questions of your p ast Self and mistakes like you do, your soul is as good as dead, cause you stop growing, you stop moving.
And you ARE whole. Stop analyzing everything to death and you`ll feel it. You`ll know."

Funnily a few weeks later I bumped in exactly that man, coincidentally, he looked at me, I looked at him, and it was this one moment when I knew I WAS whole, I always had been, and everything is alright and always will be, and that everything, really everything was supposed to happen, so I could be there at that moment in time. THAT was my reward, my "proof" that I was not a crazy dreamer.

I never stopped moving since that moment, I still think of the past sometimes, but I donīt cling to the old wounds.
Cause reviving them again and again in my mind thwarted every effort to close them, to let them heal.

Iknow there are times when you have to think and try to understand. But there are other times in life when exactly that thinking and analysing will just have the opposite effect, keeping you tied to the past.

And I feel (only what I feel inside) that it`s time for you to leave thepast behind and own your life. By reviving the horrible thing again and again, you confirm their power over you.
You know what was "rotten" about it, you will identify it if it happens to you again, and you know how to act against it. There is really not more to it.

Live your life. Live it now. In the present, not the past.

And believe me
You ARE whole.
you just can`t see it because you are still looking at yourself with your mother`s eyes. Donīt give her thatpower over you.

And donīt let anyone tell you you donīt have a SElf. You defintely have.
Happiness, ease, feeling carefree and light comes with acceptance, with letting go of the burdens of the past.

People think they have to WORK for it, to put thought and plan and effort into it, but I have it experienced the opposite way (though I wouldn`t have believed it before):
It comes with letting go. Just stopping to pull yourself down.

You are where you are supposed to be, you are who you are supposed to be. And everything is alright. You are loved. You are valuable. You ARE.

posted September 22, 2010 01:46 PM         

actually I wanted to tell you in my last post that a process is always processing, neverending.

No, it never ends. It`s cyclic I guess. Or hopefully like a spiral.

posted September 22, 2010 02:02 PM         

Its just a stepping stone

posted September 22, 2010 02:58 PM         

we have some deep and serious synastric links going on, don`t you agree?

"Your Eros/Vertex conjunct my Venus/Chiron, and oppose my Saturn."
This one is really shouting "Karma" to me, what do you think?
BTW my Destinn is on 23 Cancer, so it is tied into this, too. And my Draco IC is on 24 Cancer, along with Draco Aura and Draco Isolda.
my Arthur is on 21 Capricorn - English past life?
Well, I am pretty certain of that.

With my Eros and Vertex on your Chiron, do you feel hurt by me?

"Your Saturn conjunct my Pallas, oppose my Saturn. "
*gulps* I have always seen you as my little past life sister. and how fitting that the lord of Karma is conjunct to the asteroid that denotes "the sister". lol

"Your Moon/Psyche conjunct my IC."
Very intuitive, sensitive archetypes togehter there.
Is your IC somehow in the middle between them? Cause I wouldn`t consider my Moon and Psyche in conjunct (7 degree is a tad wide for asteroids I think), but if your IC is around 20 Aquarius, it might trigger my Moon/Psyche-mp.

"My Eros/Psyche conjunct your DC."
This one is really intersting.

"Your NN oppose my Eros/Psyche."
What is it about the soulmate pair in our synastry?

"My NN conjunct your Pallas."
Another sister-reference?
Of course Pallas also is a very mental energy.

"My Vertex oppose your Sun/Mercury"
Seems to emphasise the sisterhood/ intellectual / communicative link.

We should compare our DRaco charts to each other, especially in relation to the ARthurian asteroids.

Why is it that whenever I think of you in a past life, I have to think of Rafe, too?