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Author Topic:   When astrology becomes complicated ..........?............
belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
I'm referring to the asteroids,centaurs and other itty bitty details..


Seriously how much information do we really have on them? Anything in or around the kuiper belt (the extended area past our known solar system further than neptune), is still UNKNOWN and NEW. I watched a documentary and even one at the astronomy museum in Sydney and they know almost nothing about it because it is only the last few years to be precise 1992 that they were even discovered.

Why are we basing predictions and synastry on them?

Has anyone found it to really work?

When has anyone ever found that when asteroid number 3541358716847 comes around it does what we like to think it does?

Just curious if it works before I put any of my time and energy into it

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
Belgz
Do some of your major asteroids and take someone you know well like Ferdie.
Check his and yours and come back and tell us what you think.

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Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Well I don't think they work or the influence is too minor and could still be a replica of another major planet in the solar system.

For example to me Neptune and Ceres are similiar in nature. Sympathy vs caring/nurturing. Same as with the moon.

That is why I kind of doubt it and think it makes it too complicated.

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Diana
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posted October 01, 2010 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
The only one I've ever seen consistently work is asteroid karma.

The other ones don't work for me at all. I agree people get too crazy with the adding of a bijillion asteroids to make their synastry work.

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
Well, I am blown away by asteroids. Watch out cuz they get addictive

In my synastry, I am blown away. Even if YOU look at which asteroids are on YOUR planets, you can see if they fit.
For example, maybe Eros is on your Venus or ASC.
I think that the asteroids which are on pivotal places are important like your ASC, Venus, Moon, Sun, etc.

------------------
Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
dp.

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
How did Karma work for you, Diana?

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Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
I ,only, started to believe in asteroids when IQ saw the my whole relationship with my mother from the asteroids.
You could see it from the synastry but the asteroids refined it, greatly.
Asteroids refine, I think.
The planets define.

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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Here is another example.

Ferdi has his EROS exactly conjunct my VENUS.

This implies erotic sex, passion, attraction right?

Well my natal Mars is on his ASC and his on mine. Which would mean the same thing.

His sun falls on my 8th house cusp.


Another one....

His MOON is exactly conjunct my CERES.

Nurturing, caring.... etc.

He has a cancer ascendant and I am a cancerian and our moons are in exact trine. SAME THING, same interpretation


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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Diana,

How does the asteroid Karma work?

I have Karma conjunct my sun.

What happens when there is a transit of Karma or synastry aspect?

I want to check to see if it has worked for me in the past because I seriously doubt them a lot.

I need reassurance

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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Diana,

How does the asteroid Karma work?

I have Karma conjunct my sun.

What happens when there is a transit of Karma or synastry aspect?

I want to check to see if it has worked for me in the past because I seriously doubt them a lot.

I need reassurance

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Diana
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posted October 01, 2010 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
I've seen it work in others charts. The mystery synastry thread was a good example, but I've seen it many times before and after. That's why I use it.

Belgz, I agree that sometimes it can be explained with the other planets.

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
It is a refining, Belgz.
A painting could be two dimensional,complete with all the colors etc but flat.
If texture was added to the painting so it became 3 dimensional, that would be the asteroids, as I see them.

Check out Nessus and Dejanaria for you and Ferdi.

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Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
This is the 2 dates of where transit Karma was the first time it happened to me and then the last time I had it...


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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
This date isn't exact.. But here on afterwards is when it all began. Both times was close to a time I was experiencing a Saturn transit to my sun which is my 12th house ruler.


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Diana
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posted October 01, 2010 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message
I wasn't talking about whether karma itself exists, but that the asteroid is usually prominent in what many people consider "karmic" events.

I'm not going to debate karma on here, because it's an astrology forum, but there's a reason for all you said. It isn't always a result of bad actions that bring on karma. And there's good karma too, but people always forget that.

Btw, you just had an eclipse right on your karma.

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belgz
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posted October 01, 2010 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for belgz     Edit/Delete Message
Well I don't deny it completely I hope they are right so it can give us more insight on things before they happen or when they happen.

I just havnt seen any hard evidence

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Glaucus
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posted October 01, 2010 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I won't get into the asteroid stuff

but that whole transneptunian region where Pluto and its neighbors reside seem all about transformation and evolutionary intensification


some astrologers have been so good with astronomy that they proposed names for centaur bodies that got accepted by astronomers. Philip Sedgwick is one of those astrologers. Astrologers like him take the astronomical features when coming up with keywords for an object. He also uses the heliocentric node and perihelion of the object at the time of its discovery for insight too

There can be argument that Pluto only repeats Mars and Saturn stuff. In Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology, Mars-Saturn combination including its midpoint is known as potential death and destruction.

However, Pluto has highly metaphysical orientation for it's an object that not just beyond Saturn but also beyond Neptune.
Every transneptunian objects beyond Neptune making it a highly metaphysically oriented object.

Sedna would be the most metaphysically oriented object of all with it having the greatest average distance by far.

People with strong Sedna influence would be more considered "out there" and otherworldly than Neptune.

I have both strong Neptune and strong Sedna influences myself and an overall very strong transneptunian influence that includes also Eris,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion,Haumea,and Orcus.

The 21st Century transneptunians filled in the blanks in my chart.

I felt my chart was incomplete without the 21st Century transneptunians.

I knew that there was something more to my chart than astrologers ever looked at.

I realized my life purpose only after the 21st Century dwarf planets/candidates started getting discovered.


I have already went in detail in what the transneptunian objects are about.


I am very much interested in the transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate objects to the point that I want to use them to create a 21st Century Multidimensional Astrology which includes Declination,Right Ascension,and Heliocentric,Geocentric Nodes. I am very strong in these energies overall. That's one of the reasons why I suspect that people that fit the Indigo,Crystal,Earth Angel,lightworker,twice/dual exceptional,neurodivergent personality types are strong in these energies.
I want to use 21st Century Multidimensional Astrology to help people like us including especially children. I think that it's through both 21st Century Multidimensional Astrology and Neurodiversity Advocacy, I will be living my life purpose of helping the Indigo,Crystal children.

I strongly recommend people to start studying some basic astronomy to get a better understanding of the energies of not just the planets but also other objects.


Raymond


------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

Developmental Neurodiversity Association facebook group. http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=131944976821905&ref=ts

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Ami Anne
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posted October 01, 2010 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
When I saw that Beinor was on my Sun, it fit.
Some things feel like home.
The asteroids/centaurs etc ,sometimes, feel so right.

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Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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Glaucus
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posted October 01, 2010 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

Let me reiterate what I said about the transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate


According to Philip Sedgwick: Transneptunian dwarf planets/candidates are evolutionary intensified objects.
Evolutionary Intensified Objects. Evolutionary suggests that emotional and spiritual crisis induced by the presence and passage of these bodies intends to enhance the insight, inspiration, creativity and consciousness

My views about the transneptunian dwarf planets/candidates:

Saturn is the planet known as the planet of physical boundaries. All the planets beyond Saturn are referred to as outerplanets, and so they are related to metaphysical energies. Uranus is the planet of liberation from boundaries as it breaks way with its need for independence,and it is associated with innovation and intuitive flashes. Neptune is the planet of dissolution of boundaries as it pierces the veil to reveal another world,and it is associated with imagination,inspiration, and psychism. Pluto is the planet of elimination of boundaries, and is compared to being the other side. This could be death,afterlife,or could be the subterranean depths of the human psyche. It is possible that Pluto's fellow transneptunian objects could be similar to Pluto. I believe that Pluto and its fellow transneptunians can be energies so metaphysical that they can be hard to handle and can manifest as problems on the physical plane.

Their very distant location,their tendency to orbit off the ecliptic as well as some of them with highly elliptical orbits make them objects that are divergent from the planets. Therefore, people with strong transneptunian energies can be divergent from the norm. They can be quite the nonconformists.

I believe that people strong in the 21st Century transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate energy are people that are ahead of their time which reflects how they weren't discovered until the 2000's. I think that Pluto's fellow big transneptunians are very complex objects,and so it make sense that they are not easy to understand exactly how they work. That fits perfectly with them being objects that orbit beyond Neptune and being discovered in the 21st Century. They were recently discovered,and so they aren't understood well. Of course, they are complex and mysterious objects - far more so than Pluto. It would make sense for people strong in the 21st Century objects to be complex,mysterious,and not easy to understand. The transneptunians as extremely primitive remnants of the solar system could mean that people strong in transneptunian energy are also deeply connected to the past. It said that highly metaphysically oriented people are intuitive,perceptive,and deeply connected to both the past and future that would be in synchronicity with how transneptunian objects are very primitive solar system remnants discovered later than the planets. The transneptunians failed to form as planets. I see that as like how transneptunian people don't fit in easily with other people. Their belief in and practice of metaphysical,occult systems can be seen as too primitive by mainstream people that believe in knowledge of science. The transneptunians are so far away from the Sun, that they are shrouded in darkness. These transneptunians can be viewed as the shadow,and deep unconscious of a person. Many Transneptunian people's beliefs in metaphysical,occult systems can be be viewed as being "dark" by people that hold conservative religious beliefs.

I believe that the energy of the transneptunian objects involve lessons,experiences that can really make or break you. The hard aspects tend to indicate the possibility of experiencing some type of trauma which may be trying to the spirit but can eventually help you to grow spiritually. What doesn't kill you can make you stronger is something that can be applied the transneptunian dwarf planets,transneptunian dwarf planet candidates.

They are highly metaphysical energies that involve insight,inspiration,and creativity that should be used not just for your benefit but for the benefit of many others. These energies are about going well beyond self and tapping into mass consciousness. There is a potential to really make a mark on the world and affect people on a grand scale.


This is a 21st Century Multidimensional View
That includes the transneptunian dwarf planets/candidates, their nodes (both heliocentric,geocentric) as well as declination and right ascension


Aspect Orbs
3'00 - conjunction,opposition,trine,square
2'00 - sextile
1'00 - semisextile,quincunx,semisquare,sesquiquadrate,quintile,biquintile
'30 - parallel, contraparallel in regards to declination

if Ascendant/Descendant,Midheaven/Imum Coeli, Antivertex/Vertex,East Point/West Point are involve, sextile gets 3 degree orb because of trine to the opposite point


RA stands for Right Ascension which is equatorial longitude
Decl stands for Declination which is equatorial latitude.
Both coordinates are used by astronomers

Information can be found here: http://astrology.clairvision.org/static/astrologymanual/Right_ascension_and_declination.html

Geocentric and Heliocentric Nodes of the Transneptunian Dwarf Planet/candidates

Personal aspects to the node of a transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate object indicate being strongly connected to the collective energy of the individual transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate. There can be the potential to be a public figure. Hard Aspects (conjunction,opposition,square) can indicate very difficult life that can involve significant trauma but opportunity for significant spiritual growth. They have to avoid boundary issues.

Geocentric Nodes

Aspect Orbs
1'00 - conjunction,opposition,square,trine
'30 - sextile
If Ascendant/Descendant,Midheaven/Imum Coeli,Antivertex/Vertex,East Point/West are involved, sextile gets 1 degree orb because of trine to the opposite point

Heliocentric Nodes
Aspect Orbs
1'00 - conjunction,opposition,square,trine
'30 - sextile
If Ascendant/Descendant, Midheaven/Imum Coeli,Antivertex/Vertex,East Point/West Point are involved, sextile gets 1 degree orb because of trine to the opposite point


I actually believe that where Sedna is in our chart is where we will have our greatest evolutionary intensified lessons,experiences.


In Jeffrey Wolf Green's Evolutionary Astrology, Pluto is viewed as the soul and evolutionary intent.


This idea was conceived and practiced well before Pluto's fellow transneptunians were discovered. Now we know that the solar system doesn't end with Pluto and that goes well beyond Pluto.


With Sedna having the greatest average distance, it is the most otherworldly,spiritual,"out there" object in our solar system. Therefore,viewing it as an indicator of our greatest evolutionary intensified lessons,experiences makes perfect sense to me. It definitely has themes of transformation. The Sedna myth strongly suggests that.


Raymond

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

Developmental Neurodiversity Association facebook group.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=131944976821905&ref=ts

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Benedict Moon*
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posted October 02, 2010 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
I like studying them for fun, but I don't believe they should be considered alone UNLESS it makes a major aspect to one of the major planets. I don't even think people should be getting into asteroids before they have a basic understanding of traditional astrology.

And sometimes based on a few findings, I think people totally misunderstand some asteroids/centaurs. Take for instance Nessus? Its alot more complex than abuse and revenge. In fact, I've seen it major aspect the suns of those who were once the underdogs in some way. One has to also consider its orbit: in the same way that Chiron connects Uranus and Saturn, Nessus connects Saturn and Pluto. No one has considered that....


The one asteroid I've seen work consistently for me by transit and synastry is Juno. She's considered 'major' these days though.

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Glaucus
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posted October 02, 2010 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"I like studying them for fun, but I don't believe they should be considered alone UNLESS it makes a major aspect to one of the major planets. I don't even think people should be getting into asteroids before they have a basic understanding of traditional astrology."

I am in 100 percent agreement with you.

"And sometimes based on a few findings, I think people totally misunderstand some asteroids/centaurs. Take for instance Nessus? Its alot more complex than abuse and revenge. In fact, I've seen it major aspect the suns of those who were once the underdogs in some way. One has to also consider its orbit: in the same way that Chiron connects Uranus and Saturn, Nessus connects Saturn and Pluto. No one has considered that...."

I totally agree with you. However, I always talked about Nessus in regards to its orbit and how it was the first object whose name was proposed by astrologers and accepted by astronomers. With its highly eccentric orbit, Nessus is also nonconformist too. The same could be said for Chiron and other centaurs named after male centaurs with mythology. The centaurs named after females have orbits that are less eccentric than the male ones. That seems to suggest that the female centaur archetypes are tame compared to the wildness of the male centaur archetypes.

I don't have a major Sun-Nessus aspect, but I have Sun sesquiquadrate Nessus with 36 minutes of arc. Uranian Astrologers and Cosmobiologists believe that the semisquare and the sesquiquadrate are more important than the trine and sextile when it comes to events.


"The one asteroid I've seen work consistently for me by transit and synastry is Juno. She's considered 'major' these days though."


Well..it is a major asteroid. It was the 3rd asteroid discovered,and it used to be classed as a planet before it was stripped of its planetary classification after it was found to be one of new type of objects that were referred to as asteroids.

Ceres,Pallas,Juno,and Vesta were the first 4 asteroids discovered and were originally classed as planets and then later assigned to the new classification: asteroid.

Ceres,Pallas,and Vesta are the 3 largest asteroids. They are now considered to be protoplanets aka planetary nucleuses.

Ceres is by far the largest asteroid at around 950 km in diamater. It is the only asteroid classed as a dwarf planet. It is larger than many of the transneptunian dwarf planet candidates. All the other dwarf planets are transneptunians and larger than Ceres. That includes Eris,Pluto,Makemake,and Haumea. There are at least 2 named transneptunian dwarf planet candidates that are larger than Ceres. They are Sedna and Orcus. There are unnamed transneptunian dwarf planets that are larger than Ceres. The largest of them is 2007 OR10 which is nicknamed "Snow White."

There is a hypothesis that Ceres actually came from the kuiper belt and that it may have been fused with Pluto as one object.

Therefore, it may not actually be an asteroid.

Raymond

------------------
No..I am not a Virgo.

Developmental Neurodiversity Association facebook group. http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=131944976821905&ref=ts

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Ami Anne
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posted October 02, 2010 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message
What would your opinions be, Raymond and Benedict,
If in synastry, his Nessus conjuncts my sun to the second(15 seconds away)

Thank you for any info!

------------------
Pluto conjunct Dejanira, Girlfriend.

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amowls*
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posted October 02, 2010 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
Asteroids are fun, but if I were to analyze a relationship (for example), I only really pay attention to planets and the axises and nodes (also the vertex).

Same with progressions and transits.

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