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Author Topic:   unsalvagable?
akyre830
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Posts: 4
From: nashville
Registered: Oct 2010

posted November 08, 2010 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akyre830     Edit/Delete Message
Hello! I'm new to the forum, and have recently started practicing chart-reading. I'm not very good yet, but I do know the basics of astrology.

I've been trying to apply it to my daily life, but I'm at a standstill and was hoping that someone could give me some advice.

My ex-boyfriend is a Cancer (July 1), and I am a Virgo (Aug 30). He is the epitome of a Cancerian male. He was never very open about his feelings (except to me, and it took months to get him to feel that comfortable...) He was protective, thrifty (but liked nice things), hard-working, loyal... etc. We had the most WONDERFUL year and a half together as a couple, living together... staying in most nights after work, and having our friends over. We had our "routine" down to a science, and we loved it. Our routine never got old for the two of us, and (for me, at least) the "honeymoon phase" never ended. We were passionately in love every single day. Even when we'd argue, we could sit on the same couch after work, and still touch and know we loved each other. We would hold each other through the nights and he'd wake me up with kisses in the morning. I'd bonded with his mother, and was one of VERY few ladies he has brought home to his parents. Last Christmas, I was the only "guest" they had over that was not an immediate family member. My ex and I had fun when we'd go out, and we laughed a lot. It was a once-in-a-lifetime kind of love, and everyone who was a witness to it can testifty to what I am saying.

In May, a terrible flood happened in our state, and the house we were renting was flooded. We ended up moving 4 times in the span of a month, and faced a lot of stress. He turned into an insensitive, angry man. And I turned a sensitive, emotional woman. Long story short, in an attempt to lessen the stress on him (which he said I was a major contributor), I ended the relationship. I was in panic-mode and couldn't handle some of the blunt things he was saying to me during that time in our lives. But for fairnesss sake, when he asked me, "is this what you want to do?" I responded with, "no, but if it will make you happy, then I will walk away. Please tell me if I'm wrong. I want nothing more than to be wrong." He responded by letting me go... and not fighting for what we had.

In the time that we have been broken up (it's been 5 months now...) we have said and done numerous hurtful things to each other. One night, I emailed him asking for our scrapbook back. He sent me a long message refusing to give it up, and he explained to me why. In that same message, he mentioned how he should have fought for me. He also mentioned how his random hook-ups since our split have been meaningless and just a means of coping. He went on to say that he still believes that I am the one he is supposed to "end up with" and that he has never loved anyone so much.

Now, we are on "friend terms." He flirts with me openly in front of our friends, and when he hugs me, he holds on for minutes at a time. He sits on my lap when I visit him at work, and he tickles me just because he feels like it. We haven't kissed since we've split. We haven't really even held hands (though, tonight, he held them both in his while we were at the diner.) He uses excuses to touch me, and we've fallen asleep on the same couch (by choice) a number of times. He calls every day/night, and he has recently uploaded onto his online profile a picture of his with his baby niece and toddler nephew from the holidays this past year. It was a very warm and homey photograph in front of the christmas tree

When I try to mention getting back together, he says he isn't ready yet. He tells me that we will try again, but "NOT YET."

I am uncertain as to what is really going on. He is a Cancerian male. He HOLDS GRUDGES. I've broken his trust (like he has broken mine...) but I am not sure if he is willing to forgive like I am. I am afraid that him "not being ready" is him keeping his guard up. I just really would like to know if there is a point during a breakup in which a relationship (for a Cancerian male) becomes "unsalvageable."

Every fiber of my being loves and adores this man. Even though we were broken up, I brought him a birthday present on his birthday... I bring him presents anytime I am in the town he is working in. I make sure he is fed (like I did when he was my SO) and, in general, I just make sure he is always doing okay.

I nurture and show my love to him now. I did even after we had split up. I only said and did hurtful things when I had heard of everything he had gotten into since our breakup.

But like I said, I know we love each other, but I think I've hurt him too much.

Is anyone out there able to read into his actions (while taking into account his DOB: July 1, 1986?) It has been almost half a year, and I need either hope or closure/acceptance that all we will ever be is "friends."

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bunnies
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: u.k
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2010 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
Well just an observation but...
I think if you want him back you should stop being available.
Nothing makes those Cancerian claws shoot out quicker than if they think they are going to lose something.
He knows you want him back so he can afford to wait. Don't let him.
That doesn't mean you have to stomp off into the sunset shouting
"I'm off to find someone else!!
But just stop being "there" so much.
Feeding him? What's that about? How old is he? Twelve?
All men are hunters, I repeat ALL.
Maake him hunt you again.
Subtle signals of withdrawal. Make something more of YOUR life instead of worrying to much about his.
Don't be so available.

And I have to say this but it will bring a chorus of disapproval from a lot of people.

Being friends with someone after you have broken up a sexual passionate relatinship?
Lovely in theory imposssible in practice.

Impossible people! Do you hear me?
The only time that could occur is if you BOTH couldn't wait to be shut of the whole thing.
And how often does that happen?

No you need a few years and a few more relationships before that one's a go-er

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 938
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2010 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
Hello Akyre830! Welcome to LL

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crabbypatty
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Posts: 349
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2010 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crabbypatty     Edit/Delete Message
Bunnies, I so-o-o-o look forward to your posts. You have one of the best wits on this forum, and I happen to agree with your advice on this one.

Yes, our dear poster needs to become unavailable in a hurry if this is to work.

I leave the astro analysis to other, more astrologically talented minds.

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MyVirgoMask
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Posts: 3284
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted November 08, 2010 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Ah Bunnies. The voice of reason as always

Yes, I will leave the astro advice to someone else. I think the advice from Bunnies though is pretty much on point. Cardinal or not, he needs a reason to pursue, so give him one and don't offer yourself as much

This is coming from another Virgo who was once in love with a Cancer boy many years ago, and had a very similar absolutely amazing relationship which rivals all the other ones I'd had (present SO excluded of course). I made the mistake of being too available and lost him. Both of us being in our early 20s didnt help at all of course lool.

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bunnies
Knowflake

Posts: 281
From: u.k
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 08, 2010 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
Ah thank you my lovely girls

It does make me smile when I am called a voice of reason only because for a large part of my earlier life I was anything but.
BUT, I was also a quick learner and only needed one sharp lesson for things to sink in!
And also I had a job for 7 years which gave me an amazing insight into human nature.
I was surprised to find that us humans , despite thinking we are all behaving differently actually respond to given situations in very predictable ways.
And I was after 7 years, able to more a less predict with 100% accuracy what people would do.
And Cancer men? God love 'em. My first husband was/is Cancerian and my son is so I have a pretty good idea what's going on under the shell

Withdraw the food! They will follow it!!!

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akyre830
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Posts: 4
From: nashville
Registered: Oct 2010

posted November 09, 2010 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akyre830     Edit/Delete Message
yeah, you're all right...

so there's a chance? haha.

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Lucia23
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Posts: 1701
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 09, 2010 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
It REALLY sounds like time to say, "Hey, when you're ready to be back together romantically, call me."

I do think there's a chance, but this guy could keep stringing you along and keeping you halfway in his life forever to protect his Cancer innards. Bunnies is right.

Usually I hate that, "be less available to him", because it seems like game-playing. But it sounds like a situation where you can be very honest and non-manipulative.

I do think and hope it will be salvagable. It sounds like you two had/have a real, in-real-life relationship and connection with dynamics that worked...and if you have a mutual commitment in the future, it could work.

Astrologically, I might aim to start things on a new path after Venus goes direct again, back through Libra and Scorpio. (Venus will go direct November 18.)

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Lucia23
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posted November 09, 2010 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
Also I think you should go ahead and kiss him.

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akyre830
Knowflake

Posts: 4
From: nashville
Registered: Oct 2010

posted November 10, 2010 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akyre830     Edit/Delete Message
Lucia - should i really??

sunday, he kissed my forehead.
actually... sunday, a lot of things happened.

my ex and i spent all day together. he was very honest with me and admitted to trying to date someone else. it lasted 3 DAYS, but still, i was really sad, because he had kissed her. he said that he's been thinking of how i'm "the one" for the past month or so... but needed to make sure. so he tried an "experiment." he wanted to see if he really loved me, or if someone could replace me in his mind/heart. the experiment proved to him that no one else would do. he said, "you know, no matter what happens, i've realized that you will always be that tiny asian package that holds the key to my heart."
i had to sit with that for a minute. we hung out with his mom for a little bit, went to the harley dealership, the mall, went out for a few drinks, had dinner and then went to the movies. in the parking lot, he said, "i'm almost certain that if you had never written that note, we'd still be together now. i would've gotten over how i was feeling, it's just that you gave up on me so fast." i pulled out some folded pieces of paper from my wallet. "this is the letter. i haven't taken it out since i read it to you. it's my constant reminder to not act on impulse like i did that night." he took the letter from my hand at threw it out the window. i got out of the car to get it, and told him, "why did you do that? i told you, it's a reminder to not make the same mistake again. if i could go back to that night, i would have never written this." he took it from me again. he said, "do you want me to tear it?" i paused. he repeated the question, "do you want me to tear it, and we can just move forward from here on out and try to fix things?" i looked at him and said "yes."

but he said it isn't going to happen over night. i'm just frustrated now. and i think exhausted. i will try and kiss him around november 18. maybe if the stars and planets are just right, he won't tell me to back off.

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teasel
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Posts: 2375
From: Ohio
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 10, 2010 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message
I was going to ask you if he'd stopped with his meaningless flings, since he'd told you that you were the one, but he wasn't ready to be committed once again. The honesty may be good, but I don't like the way it's being used, and I'm not sure he's being completely honest anyhow. He believes you're the One, but he dates another girl for three days??? No man I've met, who was serious about the woman he wanted, would have done that to her.

I wonder what he would do if you went out with someone, and had a few meaningless flings, despite telling him that he's the one?

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bunnies
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Posts: 281
From: u.k
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 10, 2010 04:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
teasel is right
Sorry my love but you are being spun the oldest line in the book.
Add it to "My wife doesn't understand me"
"It's not you it's me"
"No, there is no one else"
He is jerking your chain and you are allowing it.
Who wouldn't want to try other people and keep a spare just incase it doesn't work out?
Please do not let your self esteem be eroded this way and for the love of God
DO NOT kiss him.
If you want to keep him....dump him.
But do it this way.
Say (you can use the same tone he used when he told you that baloney)...
"I needed to see if you were the one"

Say
"I think you are right. We need to know if we are really meant to be together so, (pause for effect)I think I am going to date other people. Just to see. You are right, we need to do this, I mean, I need to do this. But you will always have a special place in my heart"

Exit sweetly stage left.Don't look back.

Allow this to enter his brain and ferment for however long it takes. He WILL be back. I promise you (why you would want this escapes me but I do understand...truly)
Hold your nerve

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Lucia23
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Posts: 1701
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 10, 2010 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
He's REALLY punishing you, with his whole "it won't happen overnight" thing...where he's holding onto you and getting all the emotional benefits of being in a real relationship with you, but seeing other people and letting you know with his actions and words that you don't fully have his heart.

Usually I would not advise this, but I actually think it's ultimatum time. He has to stop punishing you, or the hurt on YOUR side will be so bad by the time he's ready to commit that it won't be salvagable from YOUR side.

I'm not sure why you're not kissing/lovers already and now...I guess that's part of the punishment. But time to say no to seeing him if you are not dating exclusively.

His whole "it will take time" thing is getting pretty bogus. God. You've apologized, let him know how much he means to you, you aren't with anyone else...and HE gave up on YOU fast too. You guys hit a bump in the road, and if he wants you, he's going to have to stop clinging to every bump in the road and punishing you for every rough patch.

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lechien
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Posts: 531
From: my 30 cubic square meter room with a rat!
Registered: May 2009

posted November 10, 2010 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message
omg Cancers! my Sagi stellium breaks out in hives!

but i second everyone else. you must stop this silly punishment game of his! it's so clingy, he has to learn it cannot go on forever providing him egotistic contentment. it's not nice for you!

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Still_Hopeful
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Posts: 50
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2009

posted November 10, 2010 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Still_Hopeful     Edit/Delete Message
Hi,
This is my reply from my personal experience. Take it with a grain of salt.

men are quite simple in love department. If they want to be with a women they will be and NOTHING NOTHING will stop them (not previous or current rel, not kids, not age difference, not social status, not "it won't happen overnight" NOTHING) they became single minded to get what THEY WANT. And If he has hesitation well... he is not sure.... let him be.

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angel100
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Posts: 224
From: Ireland
Registered: Nov 2009

posted November 10, 2010 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel100     Edit/Delete Message
Still Hopeful, I agree with you on this 100%. Akyre830, listen up and take heed beacuse its true....if he wanted to be with you he would be..and he's not..so that's it. I understand that it was a close long term relationship but im afraid your going to have to move on. He sounds like a complete creep to be honest....he pushed you away, he didn't even have to be the bad guy and actually do you the favour of dumping you..you did the hard part for him You sound very idealistic from reading what you wrote. Swap idealistic for realistic and maybe things in your love life will turn around..just not with that loser. HE tells YOU when the relationship can get back on?? Don't ever hand over that kind of power to another person...YOU are the only person who should have a say in what your life is like. Wow..he's a control freak?? and sneaky too. If I were in your shoes I'd hurt him as much as possible as revenge...go out with other men...cut contact with him and dont give reasons why oh and buy a copy of that book, "He's just not that into you".......... (you WILL get through this). I've had a guy do this to me and it took me 2 years of such carry on to tell him to shove it...

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raspberri
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Posts: 1336
From: venus
Registered: Jan 2010

posted November 10, 2010 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message
Just post the synastry with the major love asteroids.

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Lucia23
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Posts: 1701
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 10, 2010 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
I don't know if it's that simple. They lived together for 1.5 years, and it sounds like that worked okay. It's just time for her to set some boundaries NOW--that they are either together, or they're not. But it doesn't sound like it's doomed to always be a non-functioning relationship.

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Still_Hopeful
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Posts: 50
From: USA
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posted November 10, 2010 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Still_Hopeful     Edit/Delete Message
Lucia, I agree it is not "simple" but love should be simple is’ not it?. The simple question requires simple answer.
She asked him a very simply question his reply was ambivalent.
Plus all their history together. Living 1.5 is not a walk in a park. You should already KNOW, if you are meant for each other or not. And if he STILL hesitant well....
He is either playing power games (which I personally detest) or he simply not sure about his feelings. We all can say beautiful words but not all of us can live up to them.
I am not sure may be it is my SCORPIO Asc speaking or Mars in Aries, or Sun in Aqua, but I tend to be straight forward about these issue. In addition I believe akyre is a beautiful, sensitive and wonderful girl she deserves so much better than his hesitation.
But again I can be mistaken, so can multiply everything I said by zero

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MyVirgoMask
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Posts: 3284
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009

posted November 10, 2010 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I disagree with the ultimatum bit. They're not together anymore in a committed relationship and it's not goingto work. Plus he'll just do his Cancer Crab Walk even more and disappear. I know these guys, I went through an exact thing with my Cancer ex. It went on for 3 years like that while we both dated others and I got sick of his games and dropped him. And when do you think he tried to come back??? LOL by then I was DONE.
Do not give in to your own heart's desires at this time, use your brain and protect your heart until he has EARNED his way back. And earned it 100% without elusiveness! Love and respect are not the same things, but they have to co-exist if you want a relationship to work!

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Still_Hopeful
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From: USA
Registered: Aug 2009

posted November 10, 2010 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Still_Hopeful     Edit/Delete Message
Virgo... bravo!.... Could not say better

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Lucia23
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Posts: 1701
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 10, 2010 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
MVM, the thing is, he's not trying to EARN his way back. In his Cancer mind, SHE needs to earn her way back. SHE BROKE UP WITH HIM. It may have been a complicated situation, most breakups are. He wants crabby time to be certain that she won't leave again. But that certainty is impossible, and he's hurting her.

She does not want to move on from him, she wants him back.

quote:
Living 1.5 is not a walk in a park. You should already KNOW, if you are meant for each other or not.

SHE broke up with HIM. She had hesitations after a year and a half, too. This doesn't mean she didn't want to be with him, or that she's anything other than a loving and devoted person. It was just a really tough time for both of them that strained the relationship to breaking point.


quote:
In addition I believe akyre is a beautiful, sensitive and wonderful girl she deserves so much better than his hesitation.

Well, I totally agree she's a beautiful, sensitive, and wonderful girl...but I don't see why the assumption that her ex is a horrible or manipulative person. He's punishing her, and she needs to say NO to that. But it's not so black and white. Instead of saying, "I don't like how this is going and I know we're both under a lot of stress, we need to work this out", she was all "I'm leaving you but I won't if you beg me to stay", and she did some things that hurt him.

I just don't like the whole, "You're wonderful one-sidedly and he's awful, you deserve someone who's perfect" thing. It would be one thing if he beat her up, cheated on her while they were a couple, etc etc. But it does not sound like either of them was an abusive partner. She left him!! And wants him back.

I feel like if the sex roles were reversed, if she'd said, "I got really unpleasant and angry and he broke up with me, now he wants me back, but I'm hesitating. I tried dating someone else, but I just want him, and I'm not ready," people would say, "You shouldn't take him back after he hurt you like that!"

Love isn't always simple. People make mistakes and act out of hurt. I think his behavior is totally understandable given that SHE LEFT HIM after a year and a half together. It just isn't acceptable, because now SHE'LL get all hurt, so she needs to put a stop to it, he can't keep her halfway in his life forever.

But if someone left me after a year and a half, that would hurt like hell and it would take me time to trust him. Both people have to negotiate something that will work for them, and find a way to stay committed to each other in the process.

So many relationships on here are completely imaginary ("I met him on the internet and we've never met in person, but look at these wide-orbed indications that we are Soul Mates!" "I went to his concert and watched him from the audience!")...this one is REAL, and it sounds like they had a very strong connection that stopped working well at a very hard time (flooding and exile, I mean, jeez.) I think they have a chance, and could learn to negotiate problems while staying together. I think it has a chance.

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Lucia23
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posted November 10, 2010 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message
Akyre, if I sound critical of you I really don't mean to...you do sound like a wonderful person! And I don't think you did anything wrong at all.

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Benedict Moon*
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Posts: 1499
From: Avendesora
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posted November 10, 2010 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message
I'm have 3 planets and two asteroids in Cancer and if someone I cared about that much broke up with me and then decided wanted me back, I would be very reluctant to let them back in too. I can't stand that kind of inconsistency in people. He's not playing games, he's just protecting himself and rightfully so.


So if you don't wish to stay in this cycle, then it isn't salvageable...move on.

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Still_Hopeful
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Posts: 50
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2009

posted November 10, 2010 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Still_Hopeful     Edit/Delete Message
Lucia
May be my comment sounded too critical.
But I think I gave her ex the benefit of doubt. I wrote "Either he is playing game or he is not sure of his feelings"
Either way is it her decision and I just simply gave an input from my experince.
But I still insist Love should be a simple thing.
PS: I think may be Akyre needs to put their chart up?

Plus I do not have any planets in Cancer...

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