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Author
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Topic: The Paul Westran Theory
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racole12
Knowflake Posts: 1159
From: the world is my home!
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted March 19, 2011 12:17 PM
  
Has this Theory worked for any of your romantic relationships? If you don't know look at aspects (conj, square, opposition, trine) with:
Sun/Venus
Venus/Mars
Venus/Venus (and possibly Sun/DC, Mars/DC, Venus/AC, Venus/DC) between Natal- Natal, Natal-Prog and Prog- Prog. within a 2 degree orb. I'm working on going thru all my relationships and people I know to see if it's working. The few I have done are panning out... It talks about if a relationship starts with Sun/Venus Trine there is a possibility leading to marriage where to Venus/Mars just being a very passionate romance... (unless it's a Venus/Sun square- where it pushes people a part or keep them remote) Right now the relationship I'm in has... Prog. Venus Trine N Sun (exact 2012)
Prog Venus square N Sun (exact this year)
Prog Mars trine N Venus (exact 2012)
(We also have a DW Natal Venus Trine Sun, and a Venus square Mars to keep us together after the aspects separate) The theory is working for us... the Sun/Venus Trine is keeping us together, BUT The Sun/square is keeping us a part for the time being (we are living in different cities and hopefully once the Sun/Venus square clears we'll be in a non-long distance relationship) Would love to hear what other people have gotten! IP: Logged |
amowls**
Knowflake Posts: 1948
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted March 19, 2011 01:53 PM
Always works for me, and I only compare progressed charts. I also don't bother with rulers of the dsc/asc.IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Jun 2016
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posted March 19, 2011 02:35 PM
Yeah but statistically, won't every human on earth have under-2 degree aspects between progressed charts with exponentially more people that he/she will ever start a romance with? Or even meet?I'm skeptical, probably from reading years and years of posts on here from people whose synastry/progressions show a Very Special connection between them and a movie star they've never met, and their "eyes lock" when they watch him on stage, and they count that as the same as a relationship beginning. I love the idea that astrology can accurately show who will get involved and when. But I am really skeptical. I've found it more useful for looking at potential dymanics in existing relationships, and I think any symbol system can be used that way. Please give more information/explanationm about how and why it works? IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Jun 2016
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posted March 19, 2011 02:41 PM
Also, what about breakups/reunions?IP: Logged |
racole12
Knowflake Posts: 1159
From: the world is my home!
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted March 19, 2011 05:46 PM
You have to be more realistic about this... I'm talking about where the people have an realistic connection. You are asking a lot of questions I don't know... I have just been reading the website (I own the book but it's in Colorado and I'm in Ohio) and asking people if they have had any luck with this... he does explain the percentage of how many people you meet that you would have a connection with but I don't know how to explain it in simple terms... it was something like 1 out of 23 people, but I'm more looking at it in a way to see what type of relationship 2 people will have not "if" they will have a relationship. I have looked up my parents, 3 of my aunts/uncles and 2 friends of when they got engaged/married and all of them follow the rule. There has been plenty of guys I have had crushes on where none of these aspects were in play... which would make sense since I never dated any of them... http://www.positiveastrology.com/ IP: Logged |
racole12
Knowflake Posts: 1159
From: the world is my home!
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted March 19, 2011 06:01 PM
Also, I know Nine knows a lot more about this than I do... they are the one that inspired to take another look at it. IP: Logged |
lechien
Knowflake Posts: 1980
From: in a giant room with 2 little furry friends
Registered: May 2009
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posted March 19, 2011 06:25 PM
Racole, as i posted in another thread, just when the issue of marriage turned up between me and my partner, it's interesting to note my Progressed Sun/Venus is square his Natal Mars.IP: Logged |
Quinnie
Knowflake Posts: 1211
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 19, 2011 06:58 PM
Yes it worked for me using the ac/dc.
At the beginning of my most significant relationship...My p Venus was right on my natal asc His p Moon conjunct then both my p Venus and n asc His p asc was also square my n Mars which is my 7th house ruler. IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Jun 2016
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posted March 19, 2011 10:02 PM
Well, I don't have the book, so I don't know if I'm using the theory right.My last relationship, we didn't have any of those things when we met or hooked up, but it only lasted five months. IP: Logged |
Hera
Knowflake Posts: 8636
From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted March 22, 2011 04:12 PM
The guy I'm interested in has Prog Venus at 10 Capricorn. My progressed Sun just turned 11 Taurus. The trine will be exact later this year. I will tell you if the theory is correct in my case. Or not. ------------------
*previously Izo* Every day is a battle with yourself, one you can never win, nor lose, nor abandon IP: Logged |
roadwarriorsdp
Knowflake Posts: 1507
From:
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted March 23, 2011 04:14 AM
A person operating at the level of personality is subject to the ramblings of the stars, a person operating at the soul level will be free, and his love will be based on his own free will actions, and thereofre is not predicatable.you get what you recieve because it's what you gave. IP: Logged |
EighthMoon
Knowflake Posts: 115
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 23, 2011 06:01 AM
Hi Racole,This theory does tend to hold water. There are a few things to keep in mind. If the couple has these aspects natally, not in progression, then a transit could hit the natal planets and trigger the beginning of a relationship. He also says that in order for the relationship to last, that there needs to be some contact between these planets, and when the progressions "pass," if there's no natal connection, the relationship ends. He only included contacts with the moon when he knew exact birthtimes, since the theory only works within a 3 degree orb. 8th PS) Hera --->Izo! Had to say hi!  IP: Logged |
newstar811
Newflake Posts: 20
From: Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted March 23, 2011 08:25 AM
Hi All, I guess I'm the best person to answer some of these questions (I am Paul Westran by the way)... The important statistic is that we can expect to see a Sun Venus trine (of any variety) once in every 22 relationships, but we actually see them once in every 17 or thereabouts. Thats really significant. Because its across all natal or progressed trines it makes it really important and most of all consistent (odds are about 900000 to 1 of getting this randomly). The same for conjunctions and oppositions except we expect one of them in every 45 relationships, but we actually see them in roughly every 32 relationships (odds here are about 200000 to 1). The curious thing is that when we remove these relationships from our sample, the relationships with Venus Mars aspects start to look more statistically significant in the smaller sample suggesting a hierarchy of importance in relationship aspects. This study is really about attraction, but I'm not saying you have to have these aspects to be attracted, but what we are probably revealing is that they are present because they accompany a set of feelings between people that are conventionally useful to have in sexual relationships...but that doesn't mean you can't share a Venus Mars trine with someone you don't wish to get close to and a Venus Mars Quincunx with someone you like. The planets and aspects are contextually relevant and we are seeing peaks in the stats because they are relevant to attraction.
A note on 150 and 30 degrees natal Sun Venus aspects - they appear very often when we have progressed conjunctions, oppositions and trines. For years people have interpreted these aspects in isolation, but we have a reason not to look at them on their own now. If you ever see one in a relationship look for the progressions of the same two planets - they move about a degree a year and after approx 25 to 30 years often become 120, 180 or 0 degree aspects.
IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Knowflake Posts: 74285
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted March 23, 2011 08:28 AM
That is awesome,Paul Westran.
------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs IP: Logged |
popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 3368
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted March 23, 2011 09:39 AM
Newstar.
What do you say about belowPR venus square someones venus,mars,nept,uran or pluto PR mars square someones mars,uran,nept or pluto PR Sun square someones mars,uran,nept or pluto Have you see any strong connection including also this hard aspect when you checked out PR between sun and venus, and new relationships? . IP: Logged |
Quinnie
Knowflake Posts: 1211
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 23, 2011 05:14 PM
How awesome!...Paul Westran!!IP: Logged |
teasel
Knowflake Posts: 24719
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 23, 2011 06:33 PM
*edited. (oops, I didn't see Ami's message below. Sorry, Ami.  ) IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Knowflake Posts: 74285
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted March 23, 2011 06:48 PM
Wow Teasel
That is amazing lol
Come on msn if you want to talk
Buzz me though,by writing,cuz I could be away from the computer and hear you ------------------
Jesus never put his trust in man cuz he knew what was in man.
He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 712
From:
Registered: Jun 2016
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posted March 23, 2011 07:04 PM
Thank you, Newstar811!IP: Logged |
newstar811
Newflake Posts: 20
From: Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted March 28, 2011 06:37 AM
In reply to this:
Newstar.
What do you say about below
PR venus square someones venus,mars,nept,uran or plutoPR mars square someones mars,uran,nept or pluto PR Sun square someones mars,uran,nept or pluto Have you see any strong connection including also this hard aspect when you checked out PR between sun and venus, and new relationships? An example of a p Sun p Venus trine with n Mars n Mars square is Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fisher. Taylor had a cycle in her relationships which is quite obvious...she married a violent man, then chose a gentle man, then violent, then gentle. She would treat the gentle ones very badly and usually flaunt the new relationship and taunt the old lover. Hilton was violent, Wilding gentle, Todd rough with her, Fisher gentle, Burton rough with her, Warner gentle, Fortensky's status in this cycle is unknown.
The pattern started with Hilton with whom she shared a progressed Sun Venus trine as well as Sun Venus squares. Wilding with whom she shared a Sun Venus trine. No one knows Todd's true birth date, but the indicator could have been a Venus Mars opposition (if he was born in one of the years for which we have a birth certificate). With Fisher a Sun Venus trine, with Burton a Venus Mars opposition, with Warner a Sun Venus conjunction and with Fortensky soft Venus Venus and Venus Mars aspects. An example of a pSun pVenus trine with pVenus pVenus square is Johnny Lee Miller and Angelina Jolie. An example of a pSun pVenus trine with n Venus n Venus square is Jean Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir...this is very much in line with their relationship... they had very different ideas about what a relationship should be, but remained connected all the same. Venus square Venus implies connection despite fundamentally different ideas. Often both parties try to make the best of things.
Sartre and Beauvoir are also an example of a pSun pVenus trine with nSun nMars square. IP: Logged |
newstar811
Newflake Posts: 20
From: Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted March 28, 2011 06:54 AM
Also, what about breakups/reunions?I've been seeing some really interesting cases recently some of which were sent to me by my literary agent in the UK and relate to things like Facebook romances.
Here's one...
A couple in the US with good natal synastry get together in the 1980s in the calm between three progressed Venus squares which hit (collide) in 1981, 1986 and 1991. They manage to stay together for about 2 years from late 1983 then split for the first time in early 1986 just before the second square becomes exact. After a year when the second square has started to fade they get back together for two years and then split finally in 1988 when the third square is just inside two degrees. She gets married at a date in 1991 when the third square is exact. They do not speak for almost twenty years.
Nearly twenty years later a pVenus pVenus trine has formed (practially their first beneficial Venus progression) and they contact via Facebook and begin a relationship. A long-term pSun pVenus trine is following the Venus trine which will last for more than a dozen years.
So that's how break ups and reunions might pan out with progressions. IP: Logged |
newstar811
Newflake Posts: 20
From: Australia
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted March 28, 2011 07:44 AM
And finally...
Please give more information/explanation about how and why it works? OK. The important thing to remember to start with is that we have spent 3000 years trying to understand astrology and making experiments which have largely failed to reveal that it works or how it works. Lots of people in astrology don't see scientific verification as important, but it is actually more important than you might think. Scientific method is our basic language of truth. If you want to build a fire or a house you use science. The alternative is to see astrology as a symbolic language where anything can be true given the right context. That's all good, but what if astrology is actually verifiable and we just haven't found the key?
What I'm saying is that maybe the key is to see charts as moving changing entities rather than fixed static entities. Movies not photos. If we do this and we start to get results (which is the case) perhaps we can start to solve it after all. Ours stats are good and the qualitative descriptions we have are also demonstrative. We can even solve the Mars Effect with this method. Above all collision graphs are the first and only repetitive demonstration of astrological effects matching human events over and over again.
You can point any reasonable sceptic to them, stand back and ask them to explain what it is about them that means that astrology isn't true. Collision graphs put the shoe on the other foot asitwere. The best answer I have heard so far is "Its not true. Someone made it up." I love that one. I guess its important to remember that this subject has been illuminated by synastry, but its not just about relationships it demonstrates to non-astrologers why astrologers do astrology because for possibly the first time the accuracy of progressions are demonstrated in an experiment. IP: Logged |
Quinnie
Knowflake Posts: 1211
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 28, 2011 05:11 PM
Hi newstar811
Loving everything you have posted!  Just a couple of questions....How does the pr sun conjunct pr venus play out? Does this have positive potential or potential for blockage? In the individual's progressed chart is it a good indicator that love is on the horizon when the pr sun and venus are conjunct? Also....the Moon was a factor in my own relationship progressions.
My relationship began when his pr Moon conjunct my natal asc (and progressed venus)
But it ended when his pr Moon squared my natal ascendant.... I think this is quite significant. Have you noticed any similar correlations in your research? Does the Moon come into play also?.....It does seem well timed with the relational 7 year itch.... IP: Logged |
EighthMoon
Knowflake Posts: 115
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 28, 2011 08:47 PM
"What I'm saying is that maybe the key is to see charts as moving changing entities rather than fixed static entities. Movies not photos. If we do this and we start to get results (which is the case) perhaps we can start to solve it after all."Well spoken and great research, Newstar! I have found this theory to be true with pretty much every couple that I have complete data for. I have a few questions, if you'd be so kind... The first is, have you found that composite charts or progressed composite charts come into play with the Sun/Venus in terms of timing? The second is...looking at 2 examples... In one synastry, the couple doesn't have many long term binding factors, but the progressions are pretty profound and long lasting. (I calculated 12 years of ongoing within 3 degrees.) Person A has progressed Mars/Venus at 0 degrees and 2 degrees applying to person B's natal moon AND progressed Sun/Moon 2 and 3 degrees applying to person B's natal Venus. Some heavy action. In the second case, natal synastry is great...natal mars/venus trine within 1 degree and a lot of other personal planet aspects, some beyond a 3 degree orb (sun conj ac/moon conj ac/venus mars conj etc). However, the progressions for the beginning are less favorable...Person A's progressed Sun square person B's progressed Moon, Person A's progressed Venus 3 degrees applying Person B's natal Venus (don't know if that counts), Person A's progressed AC conj person B's natal moon 0 degrees) So, what say ye? The lesser synastry and amazing progressions, or the great synastry and weaker progressions? Glad that you are here to share with us!
8th IP: Logged |
racole12
Knowflake Posts: 1159
From: the world is my home!
Registered: Feb 2010
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posted March 28, 2011 10:40 PM
Thanks newstar (Paul) and everybody else for jumping in here and participating in this thread. I have a question too... How would a PVenus square NSun and a PVenus Trine NSun play out together... I guess, what factors do you look at to see which one will over play the other- the square or the trine. The Sun/Venus square just became exact a couple months ago and the trine will be exact next year (along with a Mars/Venus Trine). Right now him and I are living in different cities but in a relationship with the hopes of one of use moving to the other down the road. (We have a natal DW Sun/Venus trine to go with this too). This relationship has been going on off and on for 13 yrs with always 2-3 Sun/Venus/AC/Mars squares going on (I guess keeping us a part) The Sun/Venus square that just became exact is the last negative aspect, which I'm hoping it will be the last obstacle for a while! IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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