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Author Topic:   Issues with my Dad
AscTaurus
Knowflake

Posts: 179
From: Pretoria, Gauteng,South Africa
Registered: May 2009

posted July 06, 2011 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AscTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This is quite an emotional issue for me and I thought that perhaps by having another point of view, I could gain a better understanding of my situation.

I know that I am not talking to psychologists but I am also aware that there could be some who may be able to recognize an immediate solution to my problem.

Througout my 27 years of existence, I must say that my Dad has been the most difficult to understand.

I have gone from fearing him, to loathing him and right now, it's as if I am stuck in between.

Astrologically I have my sun aspecting Neptune and they say that this is usualy a typical indication of a father that is missing/alcoholic or is not present is one's life.

It's not to say that my father is an alcoholic(he doesn't drink), nor is he necessarily physically gone. But I wish he was.

When I was young, he used to ignore me and even at some point belived that I wasn't really his son. My mother never told me this because she wanted to protect the image I had of him.

I've always belived that if I was faster, stronger, smarter , quicker etc. that I could win over his affections. That he would finally pay attention to me but it seemed that the more I tried, the more he seemd to drift away or be indifferent.

I don't want to detail everything that I have felt he has done to hurt me as I can't remember all things. I've taught myself to forget but the heart always remebers and evrytime I see him repaet those patterns with my siblings, I get angry.


Our realtionship has not been the best and I have come to the point where I am thinking that I should just cut him out of my life. He is one of those people that I don't want to be around me anymore.

My mother is, ofcourse, very affected by our relationship but it seems that the older I get, things don't change and quite frankly, I don't think they ever will.

Perhaps there is something I am looking at all whack but I even read his chart to decipher what kind of person he is and ....aih! I don't get any closer to understanding why on earth our relationship is so cold.


Here are his positions:

Sun Cancer 26

Moon Capricorn 10

Mercury Leo 27

Venus Virgo 2

Mars Leo 27

Saturn Capricorn 16

Jupiter in Aquarius 10

Unfortunately, I can't remember the rest


Here are mine:


Sun Sag 29

Moon Can 18

Merc Cap 16

Venus Sco 18

Mars Libra 17

Jupiter Sag 23

Saturn Sco 12

Uranus Sag 10

Neptune Sag 28

Pluto sco 1

Perhaps there is something I am missing or not seeing about him. I am not a spiteful person(or atleast not intentionally) so perhaps a new perspective could give me a brand new understanding of the man whom I am supposed to love and respect(but don't)...

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sand
Knowflake

Posts: 358
From:
Registered: May 2011

posted July 06, 2011 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
check harsh aspects to saturn. mine shows up sun opposition saturn.

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MsCandeh
Knowflake

Posts: 801
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2009

posted July 06, 2011 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
gosh before I read your aspects I thought of the venus opp saturn I have. I see you have the conjunction. the themes are kind of similar being they are hard aspects. Your moon also aspects this which is why it hurts (and being in cancer too which is more of a blow and perhaps why it seems colder as cancer mooners can put up that defensive shell to protect their hearts) that your love/emotions are being squashed ...his saturn is aspecting your venus/saturn conjunction as well as your moon. He definitely has what I would call a 'saturnine' effect over you. This can be overcome and it is normally the other planet person aspecting the saturn person that feels the struggle and need to appease the saturn person. Before awareness, the planet person often fears or dreads the saturn person. (in my experience).

I am so sorry you are feeling like this

I have had some similar feelings about my dad but as we get older it is becoming a bit better. Only in the last year or two I have openly talked to him about how he talks to me and how I feel about everything. Often he just tells me that I am being silly/overreactive/*insert put down here*. Only when I get really emotional about it he gets a pained look on his face like.. omg who is this person (cos he realises it affects me) but then just tells me how much I am like my mother (emotions) etc etc. I pull him up every. single. time. he makes mention that I am thinking 'abnormally' (because his mindset is very traditional and rigid and I am not, though I am 'normal' whatever that is nowadays!) and that I am weird and that I have no idea about things etc. He would find my coming onto a forum like this probably deserving of admission to a mental assylum. ... however I have talked through a lot of things with him and told him that I am happy to not think the same as him and that I am individual and that when he talks down to me that it hurts me a lot. Since I have been doing this over the last couple of years he has started to tone down and our relationship has gotten better. He still takls down to me though but I feel like it is happening less often. I used to fear him and fear his judgment. I now find it more annoying than anything. But that was a change within *myself* that made me change that mindset (a venus/saturn hard aspect will often make you doubt yourself). He has since apologised for some things he has said and done in the past. It's like the Saturn has lifted a bit and given us a braek. He talks more respectfully to me now, well sometimes. It is still getting there. I still have bad days with it but it gets easier overall.

I think the saturn person just sees you as someone they can talk down to. It doesn't mean they think they are better than you, it just means they see you as being emotionally immature, or immature in some way. You can't change what they think but you can change how you react.

If there is any way to talk to him, no matter how old you are, maybe try this. There will always be resistance at first but keep hammering away at it and I am sure you will get through. It's worth it.

my dad has a saturn conjunct sun which aspects my venus/saturn opposition, and your dad's saturn is opposite his sun which both aspect your venus/saturn conjunction. I really do understand how you feel.. and I think with saturn there are big lessons to be learned. With the venus/saturn we need to overcome those fears that are associated with saturn-type people (this affects our self-worth/love). You are a great person and if you can express to your dad (it will be weird at first) how you feel at least you are opening the channels of communication. Even if he openly dismisses you at first (which he may) he will go off and think about it later. I think persistence is key too. If you really want change then you need to keep at it, especially in saturn relationships. It's like a test of endurance! And you have to try to stop yourself also reacting as you naturally would (anger or whatever) and try to keep a level head about it. (this is your venus/saturn karmic lesson in your own chart)

My dad also used to ignore us kids when we were little as well.. mum didn't like to let him babysit us! He always loved us in his own way but was better at being a provider than a nurturer.

I understand that men and their fathers generally have a more difficult time talking (my brother can't talk to my father much either on an emotional/personal level) but this is the only thing that has worked for me so far.

I hope that whatever I have said may help anyway and that you and your dad work things out. And never feel like you can't vent to anyone either!! Other people understand what you are going through as well.

MsCandeh.

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Benedict Moon*
Knowflake

Posts: 2469
From: Avendesora
Registered: May 2009

posted July 06, 2011 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a very similar issue to yours and I'm actually reaching that fork in the road myself concerning whether I keep in contact with him or whether I should just finally cut him off like the gangrene extremity he's been to me. If you'd like me to post anything chart-wise to help you, I'd be happy to do so. We are exactly 30 years and 3 days apart, and we share the same Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, and Saturn placements. I don't know my father's birthtime but I've always suspected he has a Libra Ascendant.

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dysfunctionalmystic
Moderator

Posts: 543
From:
Registered: Sep 2010

posted July 06, 2011 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dysfunctionalmystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first thing you need to do is let go of your expectations of him as a father. If you have no expectations then you're not going to be so affected by him.

Sun-Neptune can be an alcoholic father but he can also be elusive, difficult to get hold of in a tangible way. He can also be an artist, a daydreamer, a victim and a saviour.

For cutting parental ties...the best time is the saturn return and you'll have yours sometime june- october 2013. This is the point where we actually begin to parent ourselves fully.

He has a capricorn moon which can be a bit duty before pleasure and to make it worse it's conjunct saturn, he's never ever going to be warm and openly expressive kind of a person even with mercury in leo and a cancer sun.


I'd say you need to stop trying to love and respect him. If it isn't there...it isn't there. Maybe once you stop looking you'll be able to see him for who he is and THEN you'll be able to love and respect him for who he really is instead of who you think he is.

Parents are people too ya know which makes them flawed. We have so many expectations and rules etc about what we're supposed to think and feel about our parents but the truth is....it's all bull.

See him as a person in his own right....it'll make it easier for you. And please be patient...at least until your saturn return.

I don't think that you're doing anything wrong, but I do think you need to take the power back. You do have uranus in the same sign as your jupiter and sun and whilst it's not conjunct it is still indicating that to be yourself fully, you will need to at least psychologically separate from your father.

His venus is trining your sun so he will be fond of who you are but venus in virgo isn't known for her warmth either and will be cool in expression of her love.

Your suns are quincunx - very different temperaments, your moons are in opposition, the basics of both your characters are so different.....if you need to cut him out then do it, but you might just need to psychologically separate from him. You say he's like it with your siblings - so you should know not to take his behaviour personally. He's just ineffective as a father, a lot of men are. His dad was probably off fighting in the war and by the time it came to raising his kids he'd have had some hefty emotional baggage to carry around - I don't know I'm just asking you to think about his upbringing and what could have left him so cold but because he has a moon/sat in cap I'd say he didn't get the love he wanted...I know that's not your fault but it's a damn sight harder to change family patterns than most people make out.

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AscTaurus
Knowflake

Posts: 179
From: Pretoria, Gauteng,South Africa
Registered: May 2009

posted July 07, 2011 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AscTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the responses.

----------------------------------------

Sand:

check harsh aspects to saturn. mine shows up sun opposition saturn.

------------------------------------------


His Saturn doesn't form aspects with my sun but I do feel the subtle aspects to my Asc. His ascendant trines mine(wide orb).

We are actually starting to physically resemble each other , although he is 6" tall and I am about 5"6.

MsCandeh:

_____________________________________

If there is any way to talk to him, no matter how old you are, maybe try this. There will always be resistance at first but keep hammering away at it and I am sure you will get through. It's worth it.
_________________________________________


Thanks for the input.

Honestly, I don't think that I can keep trying with him. It hurts a great deal to even talk to him.Some years earlier I wrote a letter to him expressing everything that I felt.

It was hugely emotional, and I thought that perhaps this could do it. Maybe he couldn't see how I felt? Maybe he just didn't understand who I was ?

I wrote the letter to somehow bridge this gap , but the effort fell on deaf ears: He simply ignored the letter and didn't seem to care.

Benedict Moon:
______________________________________

I have a very similar issue to yours and I'm actually reaching that fork in the road myself concerning whether I keep in contact with him or whether I should just finally cut him off like the gangrene extremity he's been to me. ___________________________________________

Please let me know how that all goes.

Dealing with my father in this way is not really out of spite , but more out of exhaustion; I just want a clean slate.

I could never deal with people in my life that were emotioonally cold, I don't think that I can stomach this any longer, even if he is a parent.It just hurts...a lot.


dysfunctionalmystic

______________________________________
I'd say you need to stop trying to love and respect him. If it isn't there...it isn't there. Maybe once you stop looking you'll be able to see him for who he is and THEN you'll be able to love and respect him for who he really is instead of who you think he is...
______________________________________

I hear you and yes, I have stepped off trying to have him be what he ought to be to me and imagining that if he were that, my life would be different(I believe the term for such a thought is "forgiveness")

It's not a question of wanting anything from him, I just know that he is not interested in giving me anything. It's just really hard to distinguish what to do about a person who is in your life without your choice.

When I was young, I used to fear him. Everytime he came through the door I used to wonder if I left the gate closed, the dishes washed etc. My dad used to to cain us for silly reasons(or atleast I believed at the time).

My sister and I used to know when the beatings would come and we loathed him. He would lock us in a room, close the curtains and beat us until we screamed. It was hell.

My mother at first cheered him on(she also comes from the old school of thought where disciplining a child physically is best). She believed that we deserved it and always took his side.


I find it hard to believe that it is aspects alone causing all this because my mother also has a similar chart but she never laid a hand on us.

My dad always believed that she was too soft on us; whenever we did something that she didn't approve of, she instead would sit us down and lecture us as to why that particular thing we did was inappropriate etc. We never disrespecetd her and even prefered her method to that of my Dad's

Her positions:

Sun Sag 10

Moon Taurus 10

Mercury Scorpio 16

Venus in Capricorn 10

Mars in Cancer 17

Saturn in Capricorn 17

Jupiter in Pisces 8

I appreciate all your responses and yes I did suspect that Venus-Saturn conjuction had a role to play.

______________________________________
For cutting parental ties...the best time is the saturn return and you'll have yours sometime june- october 2013. This is the point where we actually begin to parent ourselves fully.
_________________________________________

And as for the Saturn return, I simply cannot wait. Perhaps, psychologicaly, my weight will be lifted.

At least, or hopefully, I'll start to acknowledge that I have been fathering myself all thorugh my life and you know what, I didn't do such a bad job at it....


Thanks everyone. Love and peace


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northernlad
Knowflake

Posts: 195
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 07, 2011 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for northernlad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oy... I've got daddy issues too.

I've got Venus opposite Saturn forming a t-square with Jupiter. My dad's Saturn conjuncts my Jupiter.

My dad's got Saturn opposite Moon forming a t-square with Neptune. My Jupiter would be opposite his Moon in Leo (which I think I read somewhere around here that Leo Moons make **** dads.)

Anyway, I've been thinking about cutting him out. I've tried and tried to have a relationship with him but we are on two different planets. He doesn't get what it means to be a dad, I don't think. He's nickle and dimed me my whole life (when he's got more money than God) and his new family with his new wife and their kid is more important to him. I moved down to Florida to live with him in the hopes that we could hash things out and he ended up kicking me out in a really shady way after a couple of months. I'm pretty much done.

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sand
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Posts: 358
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posted July 07, 2011 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We are actually starting to physically resemble each other , although he is 6" tall and I am about 5"6."

i hate that LOL! i look like mine as well he's 6' i'm 5'11. i'm just a more scorpio rising version with my mom's ethnicity mixed in.

"My dad's got Saturn opposite Moon forming a t-square with Neptune. My Jupiter would be opposite his Moon in Leo (which I think I read somewhere around here that Leo Moons make **** dads.)"

i think i said that LOL. i read it somewhere coz i have leo moon as well. damn i'm scared now to have children ehehe!

"Anyway, I've been thinking about cutting him out. I've tried and tried to have a relationship with him but we are on two different planets. He doesn't get what it means to be a dad, I don't think. He's nickle and dimed me my whole life (when he's got more money than God) and his new family with his new wife and their kid is more important to him. I moved down to Florida to live with him in the hopes that we could hash things out and he ended up kicking me out in a really shady way after a couple of months. I'm pretty much done."

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Benedict Moon*
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Posts: 2469
From: Avendesora
Registered: May 2009

posted July 07, 2011 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Please let me know how that all goes.

Dealing with my father in this way is not really out of spite , but more out of exhaustion; I just want a clean slate.

I could never deal with people in my life that were emotioonally cold, I don't think that I can stomach this any longer, even if he is a parent.It just hurts...a lot.



Of course its never about spite and they don't understand that, but spiritually its like you're dying everyday from the very toxicity of the relationship. People are people, but I believe there should be a standard for parenting and not letting your ego or personal problems get in the way a sane relationship with your children. If that doesn't happen, then there is no other choice but to let it go. I will update ya on what happens but it looks like now I'm leaning towards that split.


I won't post charts but I can tell you that natally my Saturn is in the 12th, squares my Mars and opposes my Chiron. In synastry, I have a double whammy Venus-Saturn opposition with my dad and his Mars and Jupiter square my Sun and his (even further accounting for lack of support, I guess).


*Anyways, I do hope you take the steps towards a clean slate because I do believe you deserve that much and not to be begging for someone else's mercy and love when they just don't care.

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northernlad
Knowflake

Posts: 195
From:
Registered: Feb 2011

posted July 07, 2011 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for northernlad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sand:
i think i said that LOL. i read it somewhere coz i have leo moon as well. damn i'm scared now to have children ehehe!

You probably did

I think the fact that you're into astrology would help you if you ever had kids. You can always work to change things, or at least have insight as to where everyone is coming from. I know that my dad has no clue on earth that he could possibly have done anything to make my sister and I resent him so much. My half-sister is a mega Leo. Sun, Moon, Mercury and ASC in Leo and she gets on famously with him. She is also 11, and I have a feeling when the hormones kick in he's not gonna know what hit him.

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TrueTaurus
Knowflake

Posts: 166
From: California
Registered: Nov 2010

posted July 07, 2011 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TrueTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AscTaurus,

I always thought you were a female...
Anyway, I've had similar experiences with my father. I recently did something I thought I'd never be able to do. Which is cutting him out of my life. He clearly doesn't care about my well-being and has neglected me for most of my life. It is a pain trying to find approval and love from somebody who is not capable of giving.
It took years of hating and hurt, but I'm at a point where I accept the fact that I don't have a dad anymore. It's less of a burden on my soul. Imagine a Taurus/Scorpio/Cancer letting go...It's one of the toughest, but necessary and amazing things I was able to do. You can do it.
Life is too short to be finding love from people who don't want to give it. I learned that there are many others who can provide the father/mother figure besides our biological parents. My bio parents are absent in my life, but I do have a stepmom who is very loving and genuine. I hope you find yours soon.

Esther

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AscTaurus
Knowflake

Posts: 179
From: Pretoria, Gauteng,South Africa
Registered: May 2009

posted July 08, 2011 05:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AscTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A huge hug to all with dead-beat Dads...

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Ami Anne
Moderator

Posts: 13741
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted July 08, 2011 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AscTaurus:
A huge hug to all with dead-beat Dads...


Darling
If you want me to look at it--List every Sun aspect in YOUR chart with the orbs and we will go from there

------------------
Enlightenment doesn't result from sitting around visualizing images of light, but from integrating the darker aspects of the self into the conscious personality
Jung
I am my Beloved's.My Beloved is mine.
Song of Solomon

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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MsCandeh
Knowflake

Posts: 801
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2009

posted July 08, 2011 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

MsCandeh:

_____________________________________

If there is any way to talk to him, no matter how old you are, maybe try this. There will always be resistance at first but keep hammering away at it and I am sure you will get through. It's worth it.
_________________________________________


Thanks for the input.

Honestly, I don't think that I can keep trying with him. It hurts a great deal to even talk to him.Some years earlier I wrote a letter to him expressing everything that I felt.

It was hugely emotional, and I thought that perhaps this could do it. Maybe he couldn't see how I felt? Maybe he just didn't understand who I was ?

I wrote the letter to somehow bridge this gap , but the effort fell on deaf ears: He simply ignored the letter and didn't seem to care.


I'm so sorry to hear Sometimes we have to remind ourselves that we just can't help who we are related to or where we come from. He probably remembers that letter and like I said usually when you try to talk to them they will reject it the first few times... I have (and am still) persisting with it. Not that I am saying your situation is the same as mine. Sometimes the only option is to stop trying to fight for approval from them and do things to please only ourselves.

I am a total believer in therapeutic writing... maybe whenever you get strong feelings about the situation and you are not sure who to talk to or how to deal with it you might want to get into the habit of scribbling down all your thoughts and feelings on a notepad. See if this helps the situation to naturally progress the way it was meant to be and help you get things a bit more clearer in your mind. I know whatever decision you make you are making it for you and it will be the right decision .. and remember it doesn't have to be forever even though it is the right decision for you _now_

You sound like you need to take some time away from the situation and this doesn't necessarily mean 'cutting off' but just taking a time out. Sometimes leaving things to progress on their own works well.. it doesn't have to be a sudden physical cut off (unless you want it to be if that is more helpful for you) and lots of 'i'm never talking to you again'-type scenarios.. it can just be a gradual reduction of love, energy and care given to thinking of him. Just always remember that what is said in anger can never be taken back and if you don't say anything (or if you are around him be cool calm and rational-detached) you can change your mind later/leave things open if you feel you want to have another shot at talking things out on an emotional level. I am sure in his own way he DOES love you. dysfunctionalmystic has articulated this better than me but what she has said is along the lines of what I am trying to say as well.
Lots of (((hugs)))

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