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Author Topic:   why is our chart ruler not the planet ruling our sun?
woah cakes
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posted August 13, 2011 04:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just curious. it seems like it would naturally be so since our ascendancy is just our 'mask' while our sun is how we define our 'personality'.

that said i really identify with my chart ruler (jupiter) but i wouldn't necessarily say it isn't rivalled by the ruler of my sun, uranus, which is in scorpio.

which do you most identify with?

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Lonake
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posted August 13, 2011 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think people see me as Sagittarius, never been told that anyway.

"which do you most identify with?"
---Asc ruler

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JohnFKennedy
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posted August 13, 2011 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JohnFKennedy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My chart ruler being Mercury in the 8th is probably the perfect "summary" of who I am as a person, tbh. My Sun in the 9th would be second (although I don't really relate to the sign of Taurus, more with Aquarius but then again I don't relate to its home in the 5th house)

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NickiG
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posted August 14, 2011 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm extremely mercurian....more so than what a scorpio should, and my asc is gemini, mercury singleton, out of sign conjunct with sun...so maybe i'm really extremely mercurian, more than the average gem rising person??

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
innnnnnnnnteresting! is that because of how you see yourself through the eyes of others (as AC rulership would indicate) or is it really how you feel about yourself most privately? i still feel totally torn!

like, i am very jupiterian by nature and it extends even to my private self, but my mind is always so aquarian and i have such a plutonic flavour, i think, to my thinking. hmm, i think it's a blend.

i still don't really get why your rising planet RULES your chart though.

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
innnnnnnnnteresting! is that because of how you see yourself through the eyes of others (as AC rulership would indicate) or is it really how you feel about yourself most privately? i still feel totally torn!

like, i am very jupiterian by nature and it extends even to my private self, but my mind is always so aquarian and i have such a plutonic flavour, i think, to my thinking. hmm, i think it's a blend.

i still don't really get why your rising planet RULES your chart though.

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Lonake
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posted August 14, 2011 03:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by woah cakes:
innnnnnnnnteresting! is that because of how you see yourself through the eyes of others (as AC rulership would indicate) or is it really how you feel about yourself most privately? i still feel totally torn!

I'm prob the wrong person to ask about this anyway since my Asc is Fire trine a placement in Sagittarius AND my Sun ruler is in Sagittarius AND my Asc ruler is my Sun.
I've been called enthusiastic, etc. but no one's mistaken me for a Sadge, usually Aqua or Virgo (signs opp my Asc/Sun).
I wanna place it more on the fact that I don't have Sagittarius friends or romances, as a rule. They're completely absent from my life (save for 1 and he's prob only there cos we have copious personal planet conj and he has not only Sadge Neptune conj Sun but also Neptune conj Asc playing off my Pisces Sun), so I think if I realllly vibed on that energy that I would attract more Sadge dominant people?
What do you think (!)
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Also, I feel very very strong affinity with those whose personal placements or Jup conj my Sun, and when one of those is their Asc ruler it is magnetic.
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So my other Q is, take the ruler of your Sun and see if you meet a lot of people who have personal placements or angles conj that point and say if it clicks well for you or not?

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Lonake
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posted August 14, 2011 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not gonna say that the dispositor of the Sun doesn't have any importance cos it absolutely does. More than most think.

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 03:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well i'm not sure. i'm a visual thinker and i can't quite picture your chart (ahem). you have leo rising? ooh well that's neat if you do cuz i'm sag rising and my jupiter is in leo!

okay so also i must ask why the no saggies rule? i know ZERO sagittarians and i always wonder why. my mom is one but she doesn't count cuz she is no longer in my life.

is it an energy you'd be loathe to vibe on? you do have a strong aqua vibe, but your mercury is there right? (omg i so identify with aqua energy i wanted to say 'here'. ha! see what i mean?!). anyhow, you do have a mercurial energy; very articulate and so yeah i can see virgo. you do not strike me as particularly piscean, interestingly... hmm, yet you do?

but yeah, with all that fire i can see it being tricky to weed out. i have neptune in sag as well and i find my spirituality is 'zesty and idealistic', not mopey or overly woo-wooified (some would argue that last point but they lack perspective so let's nevermind that).

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 03:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
eff ya, i've always had a LOT of scorpios in my life (sign containing ruler of my sun).

very few leos, and like i said, zero sadges off the top of my head.

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Lonake
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posted August 14, 2011 03:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
O I'm sorry I confused you lol. Whoops (!) I meant to say take that reasoning and apply it to your life and what do you come up with regarding vibing well with people who have your Asc ruler vs. Sun ruler prominent in their charts, esp if it's also their Asc ruler or Sun ruler in turn.

^ If that further confuses then I'm prob not gonna be of any more help tonite, lol.

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh.. i think i get your question. i'm up past my bedtime and my brainpower peaked 3 hours ago. i'm gonna have to mentally scour my entire backlog of frienships and see if i can come up with an answer for you but it will have to be tomorrow!

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Lonake
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posted August 14, 2011 04:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"okay so also i must ask why the no saggies rule? "
---Not really a rule I guess I just don't meet them? I did meet someone who had Venus on my Neptune (From an older generation) and he was quite taken with me but it wasn't mutual.
And ooh-eeeee I couldn't stand his rampant optimism. Made me sick (!) It wasn't just being optimistic, tho, it was his insistence on going over all the things he's been through day in day out and yapping on about how he's made it, fave phrase: "I'm still here!" Me: "Yea I got that, I see you in front of me!" If you wanna know the truth he sounded like he was appearing daily on Dr. Phil as some sort of return guest success story. I felt like an audience member. Tell me how much of that one person can take (!)

My nice lil cousin (ok she's 19 now), Sadge Sun, Pisces Moon, she doesn't seem Sadge at all apart from her gorgeous smile and bright eyes. Hardly talks, just smiles a lot and canoodles with her lil boyfriend who's bonded to her like cement. I feel so nervous always having to initiate convos I have to start yapping but I always make her laugh. Then again everything makes her laugh.

"i know ZERO sagittarians and i always wonder why."
---This I find odd for you since you have that Asc (!)

"but your mercury is there right?"
---Unfortunately

"i have neptune in sag as well and i find my spirituality is 'zesty and idealistic', not mopey or overly woo-wooified (some would argue that last point but they lack perspective so let's nevermind that)."
---O yes, I'm so happy to have that placement vs. Neptune in Scorp or Cap, esp. Nep Scorps, no-thank-you.

"eff ya, i've always had a LOT of scorpios in my life (sign containing ruler of my sun). "
---Ok, this is it (!) I think it does then have added importance in your chart. I wonder if it's helped by other factors (?)

"like i said, zero sadges off the top of my head."
---That is crazy Sure you're not Scorp rising (!)

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 04:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
crap no! i have an elastic face that is always doing weird (goofy) stuff and none of it is broody or even slit-eyed. but yeah, i do have to wonder why no saggies. i lament this frequently. i do know a lot of people born in the very first degs of cap though (my venus is 29 sag). i wonder if i have a spiritual buffer since my mom traumatized me!? but she is not very sagittarian in spirit.

scorpios- could just be that they aspect my moon. my chart ruler uranus in scorpio opposes my moon exactly. two very closest friends in my youth were scorpios with taurus moon, both conjunct my uranus. and i have another great friend who conjures such feelings of closeness who has an entire (HUGE) stellium on my uranus. perhaps the key here is, again, running from my mom (moon) via the opposition. anyhow, these three friends in particular i feel an EXTREME emotional resonance with and a natural affinity on that level that i don't feel with other people. maybe it has to do with aqua resisting or avoiding emotion, so it's a channel IN to emotion in a way that feels safe (identified with self?); the observation element is removed.

oh and my first love has his moon cj my uranus as well and a similar feeling of deep emotional resonance and safety with him.

UNFORTUNATELY!? mercury is aqua is exalted! or is it that you're unable to shut your brain off? i have that but it doesn't bother me.

your sag venus gentleman sounds hilarious. or rather, your description does! ahh, cute. well i have to warn you that my fave movie is pollyanna but your fella sounds just a tad overboard.. just a smidge.

aw your neice sounds lovely! i can see those energies blending in such a way; sag would bring a nice cheerful purposefulness to oft nebulous neptune.

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Lonake
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posted August 14, 2011 05:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"your sag venus gentleman sounds hilarious. or rather, your description does! ahh, cute. well i have to warn you that my fave movie is pollyanna but your fella sounds just a tad overboard.. just a smidge."
---He has Sadge Asc with Venus in the 1st. I think that may be one of the reasons he's sorta up-himself. Also Gemini Jupiter, omg overkill. That has to be it. Jupiter in Gem dispositing the Sadge, and it's his Asc ruler. If the Jupiters are not clicking for me I feel so sad. Almost our whole tone was his Gemini Jupiter vs. mine in Scorp. Scorp doesn't give an inch when cornered by Gemini (!)

Yea I don't like my Merc any more. I want one in Earth so that people don't look at me and think kooky when I'm trying to freely speak my mind.

Re: your Moon,
Do you have anything in Cancer that rules it, if not, does it trine or sextile anything?

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 05:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i have nothing in cancer (except draconically, AC and venus). but my moon is in my fourth. speaking of! i asked you a Q in the cusps thread about it; but yeah it's in the last deg of my 4th house.

ohhh i hope i am not that way! i have sag AC and venus in the first. how embarrassing. but yeah.. crap i forget about dispositors (i own the noel tyl text book though! i grasped it at one point), but i've dated TWO gem jupiters in the last few years and they are both pretty cocky/selfish/flakey dudes in many respects. i can see that whole vibe really digging under the nails of scorpio jupiter though. even my sextile to it doesn't seem to grant much sympathy for their excursions into indiscriminate pleasure-fulillment. well, i'm assuming that's how that jupiter (CAN) play(s) out cuz this is something they both have in common. wandering loins and slippery morality ie, whatever floats their boat is the only relevant vessel on the water.

oh gosh, an earth mercury. hmm. well any luck in draco? i get to be a leo mercury, so that's kind of fun. but yes i do envy the measured steady pace of earth mercuries, although i can never quite wrap my head around how one goes about thinking in a straight line..

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woah cakes
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posted August 14, 2011 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for woah cakes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh, and my NN trines my moon by 2 and my saturn by 8 (both in virgo, but in my EIGHTH. hmm?). no sextiles!

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Benedict Moon*
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posted August 14, 2011 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Benedict Moon*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do identify with my ASC ruler (Saturn in Sag/12th) much more than my actual Ascendant (though I am still aloof) but I don't identify with it as much as I do my Moon---my Sun's ruler. Personally, I think it has to do with the planets involved? My Moon is already a personal planet so obviously its easier to access than Saturn. For someone with a transpersonal Sun but with a more personal Ascendant, it would probably be the reverse.

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BeholdAstarte
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posted August 14, 2011 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my chart ruler is venus but its also the ruler of my sun sign and my venus is in scorpio conjunct pluto. i feel like i can relate a lot to my ruling sign. but my sun is also in a 7 planet t-square and those planets get all the aspects and my venus/pluto dont have too many aspects. just all possitive and it conjuncts the descendent so pluto/venus is suppose to be strong but ive had other calculations saying that jupiter and the other planets in the t-sqaure are stronger just cause of all the aspects.. soo i get confused.

i have had a few people ask me if i was a pisces but my rising is exactly trine neptune.. and jupiter so that could be why too. neptune is strong in my chart as well.

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Aya_and_baby
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posted August 14, 2011 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aya_and_baby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Depending on whether you prefer traditional rulerships over modern ones or vice versa, both my Sun's and ASC rulers would be in the same sign anyway which wouldn't make much of a difference.

But that is traditional. My Sun in Scorpio would be ruled by Mars and my ASC in Sagittarius would be ruled by Jupiter. Both are in Capricorn. But when you use modern rulerships, my Sun's ruler is in Scorpio too, which would theoretically make me a hell of a lot of Scorpio, which could not be farther from the truth if it tried.

I do feel a stronger Capricorn influence. That could be explained by my chart's ruler in Capricorn and even unaspected (I find that unaspected planets feel as if they are rampaging the chart, but then again Jupiter does always expand, doesn't it? ), but also by the fact that Mars represents life energy, and it is also in Capricorn. It could also be influenced by the fact that Saturn is very closely conjunct my Sun, or perhaps all of it.

My Sun is also in the 12th house. I really feel as if I am anything but my Sun and do feel a stronger connection to my ASC, also possibly because it shares the position of 4 planets in that sign and because it's on the axis of the busiest part of my chart aspect wise

Lots of reasons, but in the end, I think it depends on the chart. I don't think everyone feels more influence from their ASC, my chart just so happens to have more of the ASC influence.

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MsCandeh
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posted August 15, 2011 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MsCandeh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm a venusian uranian lol. i identify with both, but moreso uranus. other people perceive me to be more flightly than i really feel though.. so maybe other people's projections of how i am - which would be uranian as that's my mask and what i project - is rubbing back off on me.

when i've told people i'm a taurus they have told me they thought so. but i am curvy - not fat, just voluptuous lol - and like my food.. i get grumpy when i am hungry or tired lol so it could be my looks that makes them think that too lol.

so it's really 50/50 with me. i crave routine but i am also scared of it and probably have more drama in my life because i dont have routine whatsoever - which i am happy with but i also know that works against me achieving what i want to.

sun square ascendant ... need i say any more.

seeing as i am definitely into new agey weird things, i currently work in IT etc.. but at the same time hate technology lol.. and prefer the pen and paper sometimes and make lots of crafty things ... but am also into graphic design... i would say that i am about 60 per cent uranus and 40 per cent venus ;p

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lechien
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posted August 15, 2011 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aya, do you feel that what you see yourself as and how others see you don't differ much, or that you don't have different masks you change depending on where and who you are with?

this made me think, because as you know my Sun is in my AC house, and happens to be Sagittarius like you. as a young person i never understood having differing "sides". i was always me, and i grew up in a sort of a prudish society where putting on different faces was sometimes regarded as a tactful social skill. in that sense i was considered really clumsy and not appropriate.

i always only identify with my Jupiter.

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AscTaurus
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posted August 15, 2011 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AscTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Venus in 7th house is my chart ruler( before Taurus finds a true ruler).

I have strong Sagittarian traits but are balanced off by a dominant Venus and Pluto planets(in Scorpio) in my chart.

I think the Asc ruler, being the chart ruler, is way more personal than the Sun being the ruler of the chart(Generic).

This is unless ofcourse the Sun is also the planet that rules the Ascendant.

I have found that my Generic traits are Sagittarian, but when people describe me upon getting to know me, they often hint at more Scorpio traits.

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amowls**
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posted August 15, 2011 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls**     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heh, either way everything screams "SAGITTARIUS" so.

ASC ruler is Mercury in my 9th house
Sun ruler is Uranus in Sag.

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Aya_and_baby
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posted August 15, 2011 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aya_and_baby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lechien:
Aya, do you feel that what you see yourself as and how others see you don't differ much, or that you don't have different masks you change depending on where and who you are with?

this made me think, because as you know my Sun is in my AC house, and happens to be Sagittarius like you. as a young person i never understood having differing "sides". i was always me, and i grew up in a sort of a prudish society where putting on different faces was sometimes regarded as a tactful social skill. in that sense i was considered really clumsy and not appropriate.

i always only identify with my Jupiter.


Well, quite a few people do seem to see me as naive, and despite my age and the fact that I am somehow managing looking after a baby on my own pretty well, which you wouldn't expect from a child-like person, people often still see me as a kid too. Even a few days ago when I was out there was a man who constantly emphasised that he is 30 and older and from a different generation from me. I had to remind him that not knowing his birthdate he could not be more than 4 years older than me which is hardly a difference and in fact still falls within the same generation. Being called naive and a kid despite my age, are two things I don't agree with in how others see me, but generally how others see me is how I see myself too. Give or take a few minor personality traits which can be attributed to Scorpio, I am still a Scorpio sun after all

I do act different depending on who I'm with, but that is more down to level of trust. Also it depends on the atmosphere that certain group of people exerts, since I am very sensitive to other people's moods. When someone around me is unhappy, it won't be all that long before I feel unhappy too, but when I encounter someone who is happy, my mood quickly lifts too and eventually I start unconsciously associating their moods with the people and start only showing that part of me that matches the mood somehow. Hope that made sense! But apart from being influenced by the moods of others and revealing myself based on how much I trust the other person, I don't understand the point of having different façades either.

I'm hardly appropriate myself, and clumsy but somehow I think Mercury is the culprit there I did grow up mostly in a family where keeping up appearances, status and showing off posessions was important. They don't regard me as a failure for not being able to at least pretend I'm higher middle class and worse even leaving behind the notion of class completely, but they would with others who aren't directly related.

I suppose people with a lot of 1st house are probably going to be less interested in pretending they're someone else because with all that in 1st, it's just too hard to pretend it's not there. It's in your face, is what I think, and so is going to influence you more than whatever sign your Sun is in. And if the Sun is there to begin with, I can really imagine there's just no difference between the Ego and the Façade and absolutely no need to pretend to be someone else. I do notice that with my Sun in another sign, that there are some slight differences between who I am and what I show, but I do feel that my Sun really doesn't influence me that much It's all my 1st house planets' fault!

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