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Author Topic:   House rulers - synastry
Ceridwen
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posted August 25, 2011 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since we are having one thread on houserulers in natal, I thought, I`d open a new one on houserulers in synastry.

I am especially interested in the aspects
of

4th and 7th house:
4th house for the emotional aspect and a feeling of belonging
7th house for "partner/ relationship-potential"

These two will be less about sexual chemistry i think.


5th and 8th house: for sexual compatibility / attraction
5th: more the playful sparkling feeling of flirting or falling in love, which makes one feel so deliciously alive
8th house: much deeper than this, with passions running really deep; sometimes it might scare someone so much though, that that attraction is experienced as a certain kind of anagonism (defense-mechanism).


1st and 2nd house: physical identity
1st house is more about the instinctual, physical urges, needs and reactions and also appearances, the body in its pure form.

2nd house has more to do with security, and also with pleasure and sensuality (probably what you do with your body)

4th and 5th house:
emotional identity
whereas the 4th is more about the emotional core, and the 5th house has much to do with the way you express yourself emotionally (thus relating to creativity as well as affairs)


(of course other houses will be important as well, like the 3rd house for communication or the 11th for sharing a vision in life and thus the possibility of being friends and getting along etc.)


But these are the first ones I`d look for.
Actually I would look at the aspects of the houserulers as well as planets located in one of these houses.
In my case for example Saturn aspects usually have something to say for these very deep, challenging, transformative things associated with 8th house, and Saturn is located in 8th house.

BTW I`ve only ever come to good results using Placidus system. I don`t know why. But in equal Mars would be ruling my 5th house instead of Venus, and you can bombard my Mars all the time with conjunctions, oppositions, trines, whatever, I still will not feel sexually attracted to you.
Now Venus - THAT is a totally different matter!

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Ami Anne
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posted August 25, 2011 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wonderful to have your posts Ceri
I will be back to study them as they do involve study

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Ceridwen
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posted August 25, 2011 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, yes, obviously I cannot keep things simple.

Anyway, focusing on the aspects of the rulers of 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th house and the planets therein would be a good start.

For me that would mean that my "relationship significators" would be:

Mars (4th house ruler)
Venus (5th house ruler)
Mercury (7th house ruler)
Moon (8th house ruler)
Saturn (Saturn is in 8th house)


Venus, Moon and Saturn would probably be necessary for me to feel some kind of chemistry / spark, which I know is true.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 25, 2011 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An example how this works. I picked it because it is kinda "extreme" in showing certain disbalances.

It is the synastry between my best friend and her ex-boyfriend (relationship was rather long: 7 years).
They were more friends than lovers though, as he claimed to never have been really in love with her or strongly physically attracted to her, but he appreciated the mental rapport and family-like comfort he experienced in their relationship.
I think she was a bit more in love with him, though not overwhelmingly strong, but mostly stayed in the relationship because the sense of emotional security it provided her. Over time though it clearly wasn`t enough.

her emotional relational significators:
---------------------------------------
IC-ruler: Mercury
4th house planets: Sunn (and Mercury)

DESC-ruler: Saturn

her Mercury (IC-ruler and 4th house planet):
conjunct his 2nd house ruler Pluto exact

her 4th house Sun:
sextiles his IC-ruler Saturn

her DESC-ruler Saturn:
trine his MC_ruler Moon (and NN) exact


the conjunction of her 4th house ruler and his 2nd house ruler explains why she felt so comfortable with him, though it must be said, that he constantly tried to change her and her "emotionalism", which was not always a good thing.
The sextile is nice, but I haven`t found sextiles to be very strong, though usually I do not even count them, but this here was pretty exact.

The Saturn-Moon-trine, involving her DESC and his MC-rulers again emphasises the stability and practical orientation of that relationship, something she needed (Saturn is her DESC-ruler after all). It was also a very outwardly oriented relationship; "looking good together" was an important aspect, especially for him.

her sexual significators:
------------------------
5th house ruler: Venus
5th house planets: Venus, Mars, Pluto, Uranus

8th house ruler: Saturn


her Venus (5th house ruler and 5th house planet), Mars and Pluto are exactly conjunct on 11 Libra in her chart; so whatever aspects there, aspects THREE planets simultaneously:

sextile his MC-ruler, Moon (1)
conjunct his 2nd house ruler Pluto (4)

Not sure if the 4 degree orb is not too wide though.


her 5th house Uranus:
conjunct his Mercury (4)

- she said what she mostly was attracted to in him, was what she perceived as outstanding intelligence and intellectualism.


her 8th house ruler Saturn:
trine his MC-ruler Moon exact

Not unbelievably strong passionate reaction, but some harmonious attraction on her side was definitely there.

It was not the typical allconsuming passionate love though, not even on her side, so I am not so sure about the 4 degree orb of his Pluto to her Stellium. Or Pluto loses a bit of impact as it rules 2nd house in his chart, and the Plutonic symbolism might get mixed with Taurus/Venus (2nd house) symbolism and maybe even with Neptunian tendendies, as his Pluto is placed in 12th house, and always acted from a very subconscious place. His Uranus was conjunction his own Venus-Mars-conjunction, so that rather intellectual,d etached approach didn`t really like the Plutonic role I guess.


When their relationship ended though, it was pretty Plutonic (from her side), as she just couldn`t let go of it, despite their love having died long ago. She was obsessed with feelings of guilt, jealousy and clinging to what was already gone. So maybe that is where Pluto came into play.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 25, 2011 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
his emotional relational significators:
-------------------------------------------

IC ruler: Saturn
(interc. ruler: Uranus)

DESC-ruler: Mars


his Saturn:
sextile her Sun exact
square her 1st and 2nd ruler Moon

his Uranus:
no aspects

his Mars:
no aspects

So all the weight is being carried by his IC-ruler Saturn

She certainly was not his "dream-woman/partner" - just no aspects to his DESC, DESC-ruler, not even Venus or Mars.
I think the reason for him staying in this relationship is easily being found in his personality and natal (his expectations of a relationship surely were not about romantic or even sexual love) and in the aspects surrounding 4th house and especially his Moon. his Moon was tightly woven into the natal Kite she has natally; conjunct her Neptune, trine her Moon and Saturn and sextile her Venus/Mars/Pluto.
Since Moon rules his MC, the emotional comfort and "looking good" was enough for him.

The square of his 4th house ruler to her ASC r uler Moon, was definitely challenging. It shows that her personality clashed with his emotional needs. Her Moon is in Aries and whenever she was showing the typical honesty and directness, he criticised her for it, as she was already familiar with from her parents.
On the other hand I think this square provided a lot of glue and, as weird as it may sound, loyalty and faithfulness, at least as long both "played by the rules".


his sexual significators:
--------------------------

5th house ruler: Neptune
5th house planet: Jupiter
8th house ruler: Venus

his Neptune:
sextile her 4th house ruler Mercury

his Jupiter:
conjunct her MC
(again, it was her public image and her purposefulness that attracted him the most)

his Venus:
no aspects


So to summarize, there are NO aspects to his Venus, Mars, DESC, 8th house ruler and only a weak, though friendly, sextile to his 5th house ruler.


"Of course" he fell in love with a girl/ woman who has a Sun-Venus-conjunction which falls flat onto his ASC/Venus/Mars/Uranus-stellium. lol

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Ceridwen
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posted August 25, 2011 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For comparision: the synastry with her husband (who has been patiently waiting for years in the shadows):


her emotional significators:
--------------------------------

her 4th house ruler Mercury:
conjuncts his 10th house ruler Pluto (4)
square his ASC (2)

her 4th house Sun:
squares his Mars (2)

(no, it has not been easy to come to an agreement I think; but they learned to accept certain differences)

her DESC conjunct his Sun and ASC - that alone is a strong significator

her DESC-ruler Saturn:
opposite his DESC-ruler Moon (2)
trine his 2nd house ruler Neptune exact
sextiles his MC ruler Pluto (2)
squares his MC (2)

his emotional significators
-----------------------------
4th house ruler: Venus
DESC ruler: Moon
interc. ruler: Sun
7th house planets: Saturn

(they share two of the same rulers: Sun and Saturn, which implies that they have similiar approaches to relationships, and neither of them is afraid of having to work for the relationship)

his Venus opposite her Jupiter

his DESC ruler Moon:
sextiles her 1st and 2nd ruler Moon exact
trine her Venus/Mars/Pluto (4)
opposite her DESC and 8th house ruler Saturn (3)

his 7th ruler Sun:
square her 1st and 2nd ruler Moon
squares her Venus/Mars/Pluto
conjuncts her DESC


No, I am sure, it does not all go smoothly (his Jupiter conjuncts her Moon exactly though, and that may help quite a bit, and they have a dW of Venus-Jupiter-opposition - lots of good feelings between them)

sexual significators:
---------------------

her 5th house ruler: Venus
her 5th house planets: Venus, Mars, Pluto, Uranus
her 8th house ruler: sAturn

her Venus/Mars/PLuto:
conjunct his MC-ruler Pluto exact
sextile his 2nd house ruler Neptune exact
square his ASC

her Uranus:
conjunct his interc. ASC-ruler Uranus
square his 5th and 8th house ruler Mercury

her 8th ruler Saturn:
opposite his DESC-ruler Moon (2)
trine his 2nd house ruler Neptune exact
sextiles his MC ruler Pluto (2)
squares his MC (2)

(BTW a connection between 8th and 2nd house ruler or planets in these houses can really feel pretty magical - well, it is the Pluto and the Venus houses after all ).

his sexual significators
--------------------------

5th house ruler Mercury
5th house planet: Mars

8th house ruler: Mercury
8th house planet: Pluto

his 5th and 8th house ruler Mercury:
trine her Jupiter exact
squares her Uranus (3)

his Mars:
squares her Sun (2)
sextiles her 1st and 2nd house ruler Moon exact
widely trines her Venus/Mars/Pluto (5)

his 8th house Pluto:
conjuncts her 5th house Venus/Mars / Pluto exact

no, probably not easy, but very different to the first one; and actually they have been going strong for 11 years now, (married for 6 years) which I think is pretty good.

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Hera
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posted August 25, 2011 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Ceridwen! Well, I want to give this a try. Always been fascinated with the insight house rulers give me.

my emotional relational significators:
--------------------------------------
IC ruler - Venus
In the 4th house - Chiron

My Venus trines his Mars (6H ruler) and falls in his 7H.

DC ruler - Moon
In the 7th house - none.

My Moon conjuncts his Sun exactly (MC ruler), his Mercury (5 deg orb), which rules his 8th and 11th houses, also Neptune (5H ruler). Sextiles his Asc.

My sexual significators:
------------------------

5th house ruler - Mercury
In the 5th house - NN
8th house ruler - Mercury
In the 8th house - none.

My Mercury sextiles his Moon (9H ruler), trines his Mercury (8 and 11H ruler), squares his Mars (6H ruler), trine his Neptune (5H ruler), opposes his Pluto (1st house ruler).

My NN opposes his Sun.

My physical identity significators:
-----------------------------------

1st house ruler - Saturn
In the first house - none.

My Saturn sextile his Sun (MC ruler) and coonjuncts his Asc.


His emotional relational significators:
---------------------------------------
4th house ruler - Uranus
In the 4th house - none.

His Uranus opposes my Chiron (in my 4th) and sextiles my Asc.

7th house ruler - Venus.
In the 7th house - Chiron

His Venus conjuncts my Uranus (1st house intercepted ruler) and widely, my Jupiter (11H ruler).
His Chiron conjuncts my Venus (IC ruler and 9H ruler).

His sexual significators:
-------------------------
5H ruler - Neptune
In the 5th house - none.
8H ruler - Mercury
(5 and 8H rulers conjunct, so they make the same aspects):

His Mercury-Neptune conjuncts my Moon (6 and 7H ruler), my Neptune (2H ruler), trines my Mercury (5 and 8H ruler), trine my Mars (3H ruler)

His identity significators:
--------------------------
1st house ruler - Pluto
In his 1st house - Uranus.

His Pluto opposes my Mercury (5 and 8 ruler), squares my Asc exact.
His Uranus opposes my Chiron and sextiles my Asc.


What do you think??

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Ceridwen
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posted August 26, 2011 07:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Hera

Is this with the one who lied to you about being sick? Or did he lie to you when he said he was not being sick?
Just wanted to tell you that I am very sorry for all the turmoil you have to go through.


"n the 4th house - Chiron"
Hmm, I didnīt consider Chiron, so I have to add this one to my own emotional significators as well, as it is in 4th house.

"My Venus trines his Mars (6H ruler) and falls in his 7H. "
So your 4th house ruler trines his 6th house ruler.
I think there is probably a mild sexual attraction, though maybe it feels more romantic, with it being a trine plus Venus being in 7th house on the planetary level.
On the houselevel I`d say that you probably would be able to organize everyday life with each other well.


"My Moon conjuncts his Sun exactly (MC ruler)"
So your DESC ruler conjuncts his Sun exact plus this is a Sun-Moon-conjunction, I think the emotional attraction to him must be quite strong, depending on what aspects Moon makes in your own chart.
I think Desc-ruler conjunct Sun is probably always an indicator for a strong attraction, not so much physical or sexual though. But the DESC-individual might view the Sun-individual as a "natural partner"; he`s got something the DESC needs and is drawn to. Though sometimes what we need is not necessarily what we want. The Sun will reflect something to you about your needs and relatingstyle. Usually this reflection leads to recognizing the other as possible partner, but if he reflects something to you you do not really want to see, it might not be as harmonious and welcome. But even then, I think two people with this connection have something to do with each other.


", his Mercury (5 deg orb), which rules his 8th and 11th houses, also Neptune (5H ruler)."
So your DESC-ruler conjuncts his 8th house ruler and 5th house ruler? BOTH sexual houses?
Maybe for him the connection would be more sexual, whereas you are looking more for a commitment. The 8th house is a pretty committed one, though.
I think this could be an intense relationship-interronnection, it is a bit like having your Venus conjunct his Pluto and Sun. lol

Though 7th and 8th house are both in the relationship quadrant, and these are not relating to the identity-houses, though we could say that the 5th house has a double function here, and is also the house of Selfexpression,s o it might be his Selfexpression that triggers a "relating response".


Since Mercury rules both your 5th and 8th house, I think Mercury-aspects might be more sexually energized for you than for most other people. If someone aspects your Mercury it is not just a strictly intellectual, mental thing.

"My Mercury trines his Mercury (8"
A smooth interaction on a transformational level.
Plus the trine to his 5th house ruler indicates that you would probably get along on these areas, though maybe it is not ultra exciting.

"squares his Mars (6H ruler)"
Ouch. He could easily hurt you and you might feel "violated" on a deeply intimate and romantic level (8th house is REALLY Deep).
On the other hand it might also rouse some intense passions.
Interesting that Mars rules his 6th house.

"pposes his Pluto (1st house ruler). "
Okay, more intensity. Ruler of 5th and 8th house opposing Pluto?
Could get a tad too compulsive maybe.
At the same time Pluto rules his 1st house, so his (physical) identity triggers some serious attraction in you, but it is a magnetism based on difference, being opposites. So it might seesaw between insane attraction and then suddenly switch to the opposite.

"My Saturn sextile his Sun (MC ruler) and coonjuncts his Asc. "
With your 1st house ruler on his ASC, there seems to be some similiarities between you as well, some common ground. And with Saturn on his ASC it might not be that easy to "get rid" of each other.


"His Uranus opposes my Chiron (in my 4th) "
There might be great vulnerability and being easily hurt on a very emotional level for both of you.
Maybe with Uranus as his 4th house ruler he cannot really trust the stability of an ongoing emotional connection and has to instigate "distress" so can either prove that he was right (and there is no emotional loyalty and stability possible) or that he can get proven that despite it all he is still cared for.
This hits your Chiron in your 4th house, so you are vulnerable enough yourself when it comes to emotional and family matters. You might work yourselves mutually up in proving that a satisfying emotional connection is a dream "too good to be true".

" Venus conjuncts my Uranus (1st house intercepted ruler)"
so his 7th house ruler conjuncts your 1st house ruler, which is maybe the strongest of the relational attraction aspects in rulerships (though not necessarily in terms of sexual sizzle).
With this being Venus-Uranus love at first sight could be possible, though of course Uranus might make it a bit "unstable" at times, blowing hot - blowing cold. But that is just Uranus. You gotta get used to it, go with the flow and be certain that the attraction will be back full force after a certain "interval".


"His Chiron conjuncts my Venus (IC ruler and 9H ruler). "
The Chiron connections are interesting. You should look more deeply into them. Both of you have some serious wounding concerning relationships - yours are more family oriented, his more partnership oriented.
Maybe you have met to address these wounds and maybe even find a way to heal them?
With your Venus on his 7th house chiron, maybe he is afraid of the attraction and that it might reopen old wounds he never really healed or even acknowledged?

"His Mercury-Neptune conjuncts my Moon (6 and 7H ruler),."
I think this would make for a strong sexual attraction to you, especially if you are in "emotional relationship-mode".

"rine my Mars (3H ruler)"
Some more harmonious attraction

uto opposes my Mercury (5 and 8 ruler), squares my Asc exact. "

I think this one is rather difficult a T-square including both ASC`s (or 1st house ruler), the 5th and 8th ruler and on top of that Pluto. Not easy to tackle I think.
Might lead to strong attraction and sexual or transformative intensity, but you could easily feel overwhelmed by him.
With his Pluto challenging your 5th and 8th houses, if you let him come close, you probably will not walk away the same person as you have been before. And it seems to have to do much with your perception of sexuality.

The other possibility is that you completely block him to stay "intact".

But with these Chiron-connections I have the feeling there is a karmic reason, some kind of (healing) lesson, behind this.


What do you think??

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Ceridwen
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posted August 26, 2011 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hera,

what do you think about this one?


IDENTITY
-------------

my ASCruler Jupiter:
opposite his int. ASC-ruler Mars (0)
opposes his MC-ruler Jupiter (0)

his ASC:
square my 1st house Sun (3)

his ASC-ruler:
(conjunct my Ist house Sun (5))

his int. ASC-ruler:
squares my 1st house Neptune (1)
t(rines my 1st house Venus (5))

my 1st house Venus:
trine his 1st house Chiron (3) (which falls into my 5th house, and Venus rules 5th house)

(trine his Mars (5))
(trine his MC ruler Jupiter (4))

emotional relating

mine:
--------

my IC trine his DESC ruler (4)
my IC trine his IC ruler (4)

my IC ruler conjunct his DESCruler (4)
my IC ruler conjunct his IC ruler (4)

my 4th house Chiron
trine his ASC-ruler Neptune (0)
opposite his 8th ruler Pluto (1)

my DESC:
oposite his IC-ruler (2)
opposite his DESC ruler (2)
square his int. ASC-ruler Mars (4)
square his MC-ruler Jupiter (3)

my DESC-ruler:
conjunct his ASC-ruler Neptune widely (5)
conjunct his MC (2)
conjunct his 5th ruler Moon (3)
conjunct his Sun (2)
square his ASC (2)
square his Saturn (1)


his
-------

his IC opposite my Sun (2)
his IC opposite my DESC-ruler (2)

his IC-ruler:
conjunct my ASC (2)
conjunct my 1st house NEptune (0)
conjunct my IC-ruler Mars (4)
square my ASC ruler (2)


his DESC:
square my Sun (3)
square my DESC-ruler (2)

his DESC-ruler:
conjunct my ASC (2)
conjunct my 1st house Neptune (0)
conjunct my IC-ruler Mars (4)
square my ASC-ruler (2)

his 7th house Saturn:
square my Sun (0)
square my DESC-ruler (1)

his 7th house Pluto (ruler of 8th):
opposite my 4th house Chiron (1)
trines my 8th ruler Moon (4)
squares my 2nd ruler Saturn (4)

sexual/erotic chemistry:

from me to him:
---------------

my 5th ruler Venus:
trine his 1st house Chiron (3)
trine his int. ASC-ruler Mars (5)
trine his MC-ruler Jupiter (4)

my 8th ruler Moon:
trine his 8th ruler Pluto (4)

my 8th house Saturn:
squares his 8th ruler Pluto (4)

from him to me:
---------------

his 5th ruler Moon:
conjunct my Sun (3)
conjunct my DESC-ruler (3)

his 8th ruler Pluto:
square my 2nd ruler Saturn (4)
trine my 8th ruler Moon (2)

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Hera
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From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010

posted August 26, 2011 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Hello Hera
Is this with the one who lied to you about being sick? Or did he lie to you when he said he was not being sick?
Just wanted to tell you that I am very sorry for all the turmoil you have to go through.

Thank you, Ceridwen! Yeah, that's the one... I think the second version is the true one, unfortunately. He wants to go through this on his own.
quote:
"n the 4th house - Chiron"
Hmm, I didnīt consider Chiron, so I have to add this one to my own emotional significators as well, as it is in 4th house.

Chiron is important for me, that's why I included him. And I'm processing a lot of Chironic stuff right now, being in therapy and all.
quote:
"My Venus trines his Mars (6H ruler) and falls in his 7H. "
So your 4th house ruler trines his 6th house ruler.
I think there is probably a mild sexual attraction, though maybe it feels more romantic, with it being a trine plus Venus being in 7th house on the planetary level.
On the houselevel I`d say that you probably would be able to organize everyday life with each other well.

I think you're right. Also, given the context with his illness, this trine stands for my emotional support and attachment (4th house) regarding his health issues. My Chiron (in the 4th) also trines his Mars, 6H ruler.
quote:
"My Moon conjuncts his Sun exactly (MC ruler)"
So your DESC ruler conjuncts his Sun exact plus this is a Sun-Moon-conjunction, I think the emotional attraction to him must be quite strong, depending on what aspects Moon makes in your own chart.
I think Desc-ruler conjunct Sun is probably always an indicator for a strong attraction, not so much physical or sexual though. But the DESC-individual might view the Sun-individual as a "natural partner"; he`s got something the DESC needs and is drawn to. Though sometimes what we need is not necessarily what we want. The Sun will reflect something to you about your needs and relatingstyle. Usually this reflection leads to recognizing the other as possible partner, but if he reflects something to you you do not really want to see, it might not be as harmonious and welcome. But even then, I think two people with this connection have something to do with each other.

Definitely, all the above! Well, you know my Moon sits on my South Node and is conjunct Neptune. I view it as a very karmic relationship, a soul union. Of course, the Neptune conjunction added some confusion and the possibility of (self)deception. But, overall, I think I met him for a reason, whatever that may be.

quote:
", his Mercury (5 deg orb), which rules his 8th and 11th houses, also Neptune (5H ruler)."
So your DESC-ruler conjuncts his 8th house ruler and 5th house ruler? BOTH sexual houses?
Maybe for him the connection would be more sexual, whereas you are looking more for a commitment. The 8th house is a pretty committed one, though.
I think this could be an intense relationship-interronnection, it is a bit like having your Venus conjunct his Pluto and Sun. lol

I think, indeed, for him the sexual tone is more amplified than mine. But then again, he is a more sexual person than I am. To add a little spice in the mix and get a little offtopic, his Lust and Eros also conjunct my Moon, closely. So yeah, it's very sexual alright. Not that anything happened yet, but if it will... ohhhh, no words!
Indeed, I'm more relationship oriented. It's not that he's not committed, he IS, has been way before I was. But I'm more like "let's talk about us"... he's more like "let's talk about sex". Coz talking was all we did, so far.
But it's deep. Everything is so d@mn deep and intense. The good and the bad.
quote:
Since Mercury rules both your 5th and 8th house, I think Mercury-aspects might be more sexually energized for you than for most other people. If someone aspects your Mercury it is not just a strictly intellectual, mental thing.

True. Well, for me, sex IS a mental thing. I have to be attracted to the guy on a mental level first, before I can be attracted to him on a physical level. Otherwise it just won't do it for me.
quote:
"My Mercury trines his Mercury (8"
A smooth interaction on a transformational level.
Plus the trine to his 5th house ruler indicates that you would probably get along on these areas, though maybe it is not ultra exciting.

Yup. And since Mercury rules both our 8th houses, it's a blessing that we can talk about these deep things in the open. We both feel like there's nothing we couldn't say to each other, no matter how embarrassing or emotionally painful. Transformative for sure. Maybe too much.

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Hera
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From: Olympus
Registered: Sep 2010

posted August 26, 2011 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
"squares his Mars (6H ruler)"
Ouch. He could easily hurt you and you might feel "violated" on a deeply intimate and romantic level (8th house is REALLY Deep).
On the other hand it might also rouse some intense passions.
Interesting that Mars rules his 6th house.

It is, isn't it? Especially since my Mercury (also Sun and Mars) falls IN his 6th house. With an ordinary synastry, it wouldn't be so relevant, but given his illness, it IS. The fact that he wouldn't share the details with me and wouldn't let me support him though his illness wounded me, on a very deep level. I perceived it as a lack of trust (8H again).
quote:
"pposes his Pluto (1st house ruler). "
Okay, more intensity. Ruler of 5th and 8th house opposing Pluto?
Could get a tad too compulsive maybe.
At the same time Pluto rules his 1st house, so his (physical) identity triggers some serious attraction in you, but it is a magnetism based on difference, being opposites. So it might seesaw between insane attraction and then suddenly switch to the opposite.

Yeah, there is a sense of compulsion going on, for sure. Also love-hate type of thing. Hate, though too strong of a word, because of the fear of rejection, the fear of losing the other. It kind of goes both ways with us.
quote:
"My Saturn sextile his Sun (MC ruler) and coonjuncts his Asc. "
With your 1st house ruler on his ASC, there seems to be some similiarities between you as well, some common ground. And with Saturn on his ASC it might not be that easy to "get rid" of each other.

Lol. Yeah. We stuck together like glue, even though this made us both frustrated. But yeah, I feel we're very much alike.
quote:
"His Uranus opposes my Chiron (in my 4th) "
There might be great vulnerability and being easily hurt on a very emotional level for both of you.
Maybe with Uranus as his 4th house ruler he cannot really trust the stability of an ongoing emotional connection and has to instigate "distress" so can either prove that he was right (and there is no emotional loyalty and stability possible) or that he can get proven that despite it all he is still cared for.
This hits your Chiron in your 4th house, so you are vulnerable enough yourself when it comes to emotional and family matters. You might work yourselves mutually up in proving that a satisfying emotional connection is a dream "too good to be true".

There's definitely some resistance on both parties regarding 4H matters. The emotional connection is there and it's real, but it triggers some really heavy stuff in both of us. Neither one has had a peaceful family life. His 4th house is ruled by Uranus, he comes from a broken home. In my case, though my parents stayed together (taurus on cusp), it caused more harm (Chiron).
quote:
" Venus conjuncts my Uranus (1st house intercepted ruler)"
so his 7th house ruler conjuncts your 1st house ruler, which is maybe the strongest of the relational attraction aspects in rulerships (though not necessarily in terms of sexual sizzle).
With this being Venus-Uranus love at first sight could be possible, though of course Uranus might make it a bit "unstable" at times, blowing hot - blowing cold. But that is just Uranus. You gotta get used to it, go with the flow and be certain that the attraction will be back full force after a certain "interval".

That's alright, there are plenty of other indications for sexual sizzle. But you're right about the Venus-Uranus thing. We have been going through on/off periods even before we decided to date. Now it's off, God knows what tomorrow will bring. With Uranus, you never know!
quote:
"His Chiron conjuncts my Venus (IC ruler and 9H ruler). "
The Chiron connections are interesting. You should look more deeply into them. Both of you have some serious wounding concerning relationships - yours are more family oriented, his more partnership oriented.
Maybe you have met to address these wounds and maybe even find a way to heal them?
With your Venus on his 7th house chiron, maybe he is afraid of the attraction and that it might reopen old wounds he never really healed or even acknowledged?

He is, he admitted it. I do believe we met to adress these issues and start healing, yes.
quote:
uto opposes my Mercury (5 and 8 ruler), squares my Asc exact. "

I think this one is rather difficult a T-square including both ASC`s (or 1st house ruler), the 5th and 8th ruler and on top of that Pluto. Not easy to tackle I think.
Might lead to strong attraction and sexual or transformative intensity, but you could easily feel overwhelmed by him.
With his Pluto challenging your 5th and 8th houses, if you let him come close, you probably will not walk away the same person as you have been before. And it seems to have to do much with your perception of sexuality.



I think so too, that it does have to teach me something about my own (until now repressed) sexuality. Especially since I met him under Saturn's transit through my 8H. He does overwhelm me in this respect. I'm not sure I could handle all that emotionally intense sexuality.
quote:
The other possibility is that you completely block him to stay "intact".

But with these Chiron-connections I have the feeling there is a karmic reason, some kind of (healing) lesson, behind this.



Oh, I wanted to block him. A part of me still does. But I'm too drawn to him. It's a magnetic pull, totally out of my control. And, above all, I want to heal. I want to break all my self-imposed limitations - in sex matters and otherwise.


Will be back to look at your synastry. For now I need to take a shower, preferably cold. Who is this we're talking about here?

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Hera
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posted August 26, 2011 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, forgot to mention that his Mars (6H ruler) is on my Asc. Maybe if it weren't for the illness thing, it would have been just a general interest in his day to day life. But now, somehow, his health became MY issue.

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Lonake
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posted August 26, 2011 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi C I like your style being classic Sagittarius teacher and all

Here's one of mine. Been in love with him for a while, we dated yrs ago but due to various life factors/commitments playing a part we could not sustain a relationship and eventually our lives pulled us apart, but my love for him has always been there. The bond has never been weak or insignificant, unlike many others. I had a feeling of being at home with him from the beginning, chemistry, and great mental rapport always loving to talk with each other. Do you see all of this in the house rulers?

My emotional relational significators:
--------------------------------------
my IC ruler, Venus
---conjunct his 8th & MC ruler, Mercury
---conjunct his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th
---sextile his 4th house ruler, Neptune
my 4th house Jupiter
---square his DSC & 11th house ruler, Venus
my 4th house Pluto
---square his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th
---trine his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine his 2nd house ruler, Jupiter
my DSC ruler, Uranus
---sextile his 9th house ruler, Sun
---sextile his DSC ruler, Venus
my 7th house Mercury
---conjunct his 9th house ruler, Sun
---conjunct his DSC & 11th house ruler, Venus

My sexual relational significators:
-----------------------------------
my 5th house ruler, Pluto
---square his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th
---trine his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine his 2nd house ruler, Jupiter
my 5th house Uranus
---sextile his 9th house ruler, Sun
---sextile his DSC ruler, Venus
my 5th house Neptune
---sextile his 5th house ruler, Mars
---opposed his 2nd house ruler, Jupiter
my 8th house ruler, Uranus
---sextile his 9th house ruler, Sun
---sextile his DSC ruler, Venus
my 8th house Sun
---unaspected to his chart

His emotional relational significators:
--------------------------------------
his IC ruler, Neptune
---sextile my IC ruler, Venus
his 4th house Saturn
---trine my Jupiter, which is in my 4th, Sagittarius is intercepted in the 5th
his DSC ruler, Venus
---conjunct my 3rd house ruler, Mercury, which is in my 7th
---sextile my DSC ruler, Uranus
---square my Jupiter, which is in my 4th, Sagittarius is intercepted in the 5th
his 7th house Jupiter
---trine my 5th house ruler, Pluto
---trine my MC ruler, Mars
---trine my 6th house ruler, Saturn
---opposed my 9th house ruler, Neptune

His sexual relational significators:
-----------------------------------
his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine my 5th house ruler, Pluto
---trine my MC ruler, Mars
---trine my 6th house ruler, Saturn
---sextile my 9th house ruler, Neptune
his 8th house ruler, Mercury
---conj my IC ruler, Venus
---square my MC ruler, Mars
---square my 6th house ruler, Saturn

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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"version is the true one, unfortunately. He wants to go through this on his own. "

Maybe he needs some time to process it,r ealized the realness of it, before he can allow anyone to open up to about it?

"I think you're right. Also, given the context with his illness, this trine stands for my emotional support and attachment (4th house) regarding his health issues. My Chiron (in the 4th) also trines his Mars, 6H ruler. "
Yes, I saw t hat. It seems very fitting in context with his illness,t hat there are so many aspects with his 6th house ruler (though of course 6th house does not always equal: illness).

"I view it as a very karmic relationship, a soul union."
I think the astrology supports that.

"Yup. And since Mercury rules both our 8th houses, it's a blessing that we can talk about these deep things in the open."
yes, having the same or compatible rulers of the same or similiar houses, especially if they are in compatible signs or have similiar natal aspects, will indicate good chances of "getting along" in these areas, a basic similiarity.

Maybe that would be not so much the case, if the Mercuries were exactly square each other, with one of them being conjunct Uranus natally and the other conjunct Saturn.


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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"There's definitely some resistance on both parties regarding 4H matters."
I think it`s part of your "karmic deal" to face these issues and hopefully heal them.

" With Uranus, you never know!"
Exactly!

"I think so too, that it does have to teach me something about my own (until now repressed) sexuality. Especially since I met him under Saturn's transit through my 8H. He does overwhelm me in this respect. I'm not sure I could handle all that emotionally intense sexuality."
I understand that. I also think that often relationships will at least initially reflect the significant transits they were begun under. So Saturn in 8th sounds about right.
Luckily it is transient for you. I have to live with it for all my life! (RETRO saturn in CANCER in 8th house - oh all the joy in the world! *sarcastic voice* And with ruler of 5th house in Capricorn square pluto - well repression is my second name. lol)

"It's a magnetic pull, totally out of my control. And, above all, I want to heal. I want to break all my self-imposed limitations - in sex matters and otherwise."
That is the reason why you are drawn. You feel that you are ready to approach these limitiations, dissolve them, even though you fear your own courage.

"Who is this we're talking about here? "
Let me keep this information back for now. I don`t want any background story to influence your thoughts on it.
I was kinda surprised though.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"my IC ruler, Venus
---conjunct his 8th & MC ruler, Mercury
---conjunct his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th
---sextile his 4th house ruler, Neptune"

I think that the conjunction of IC-ruler and 8th house ruler maybe is the deepest possible intimacy-configuration ever. If you translate it to then atural rulers it would be like Moon conjunct Pluto.
Also, two waterhouses connected to each other. It is deep soulstuff; but the degree of emotional intensity can for some people be too much. I think it is probably nearly impossible to hide anything emotionally from each other, and for some people this kind of vulnerability and emotional openness and closeness may be just downright scary. Not sure what it was for you. But in any case I think the feelings run very deep, maybe for him a tad more sexual, and for you a bit more about belonging / home.
It might be extrastrong, as your IC-ruler is conjunct both his 8th house rulers!

I usually concentrate on conjunction, opposition, square and trine.
But the sextile between the IC-rulers may give a mild harmonious feeling of belonging; something running in your souls that is somewhat compatible, despite anything else.

(Personally I find the 4th and 8th housese to be the "deepest" and most personal ones; don`t know how you see it?)

"my 4th house Jupiter
---square his DSC & 11th house ruler, Venus"
'There might be a challenge / obstacle between your home / emotional needs and the way he approaches relationships. Also with his 11th house ruler squaring your 4th house Jupiter- did his friends or his engagement in certain social circles pose a hindrance?
Or did his ideals and perception of how to lead his life clash with your soul`s needs?

"my 4th house Pluto
---square his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th"
So this is the third hit between 4th and 8th house in your chart!
Oh Jeez, and it includes the natural rulers of these houses, just in reverse order, Pluto and Moon.
Was that, at least for a time, a tad compulsive?
But that being a square, I guess even though the attraction was very intense, it might have been "too much" and something about it might have been too challenging or even "taboo" to work smoothly in a relationship. As great as emotional passions are, you cannot live from day to day on this kind of "high" (and not to forget, if Moon-Pluto gets you "down", it plunges you really into a hole).

"---trine his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine his 2nd house ruler, Jupiter"
I like these harmonious connections. They may have helped to cushion the otherwise insane 4th/8th house-Moon/Pluto-interaction.
With his 2nd house ruler there might have been some feeling of safety and belonging,a nd it probably gave some constancy, of feeling, not neccessarily of the relationship.


"my 7th house Mercury
---conjunct his 9th house ruler, Sun
---conjunct his DSC & 11th house ruler, Venus"
First of all it is Mercury, and being conjunct Sun, DESC and Venus was probably good for mental rapport and talking about anything.

With it being in your 7th house, it is no surprise you were interested in dating or having a relationship.
Interestingly, your 4th house ruler squares his 11th house ruler while your 7th house Mercury conjuncts it. There seems to be an innate tension inside of you between your approach to relationships / partnerships and some deeper layer of your soul or even just your family-origin.
Do you want a relationship that is different from what you experienced in your family and maybe parental relationship?

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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(cont.)

"my 5th house ruler, Pluto
---square his Moon, Cancer is intercepted in his 8th"
This is a square between the rulers of both sexual houses. NOw I am VERY interested how you experienced that, cause it seems to have been coming up quite a lot in charts I had been looking at.
I think there would be a strong sexual attraction, maybe even raw and primal in natural, though for you it may have been more playful (well, maybe not with Pluto as the ruler. lol), more giving you a feeling of being "alive", a spark of attraction and attention (it`s the Leo house after all), while for him it went deeper? (since it is the Scorpio house) Even more passionate?
But with the square, too much too handle possibly? Since the square connects different elements, there was something that was kinda at odds with each other when it came to sexuality?
Maybe the signs / elements of Pluto and Moon would give more insight here as to what the differences between you were?


"---trine his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine his 2nd house ruler, Jupiter"
That is nice. A trine between 5th house rulers indicate that you could see eye to eye on this level of selfexpression and sexual identity.
And I guess there was also some kind of pleasurable sensual exchange with the 2nd house being a Venus-house.

You have quite a few harmonious aspects between the same houserulers (5th house, 4th house for example); I guess that gives a basic compatibility, having "common ground" or at least agreeable ground.

I left out the sextiles for now, and doing that, you donīt have that strong connections with your 8th house. So I think this kind of transformative insane intense passion was maybe not as present for you; though the chemistry and emotional bond with your 5th and 4th house connection was undeniably strong.
Of course the sextiles still give a supportive energy to the 8th house issues, but it is mild compared to conjunction or square and others. And the 4th house just seems to be so much stronger in comparision.


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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(cont.)

"his 4th house Saturn
---trine my Jupiter, which is in my 4th, Sagittarius is intercepted in the 5th"
Another harmonous aspect between the 4th houses (and 5th houses). There must be some emotional affinity there. Does he like how you express yourself, your creativity, or even sexual style?


"his DSC ruler, Venus
---conjunct my 3rd house ruler, Mercury, which is in my 7th"
great for communication, maybe also flirting.

his 7th house Jupiter
---trine my 5th house ruler, Pluto"
Seems like a harmonious exchange between his relating style and your selfexpression.

"---opposed my 9th house ruler, Neptune"
I wonder if Neptune opposing here brought some confusion or misunderstandings? Or was he "under your spell", did he idealize you, or found you even evasive?

All in all it seems though that your emotional significators were stronger, and in his case it were the sexual significators.
Was he more attracted to you than the other way round? And you felt more belonging, being at home with him?

Though despite the emphasis, there WERE aspects to the other level as well, so maybe it didnīt matter so much?

"his 5th house ruler, Mars
---trine my 5th house ruler, Pluto
---trine my MC ruler, Mars
---trine my 6th house ruler, Saturn
---sextile my 9th house ruler, Neptune
his 8th house ruler, Mercury
---conj my IC ruler, Venus
---square my MC ruler, Mars
---square my 6th house ruler, Saturn"
Intersting how his 5th house ruler has all the harmony and his 8th house ruler has the energized aspects!

His 8th house ruler aspecting your sexual planets Venus and Mars - was there an ultra strong sexual attraction from him to you, one that maybe ran deeper than either of you really could deal with in ordinary life?
I am especially interested in his 8th house ruler conjunct your Venus - was he enthralled with your feminity and your emotional nature (Venus rules IC after all)?

Your "practical" houserulers, 6th and 10th house ruler, square his 8th house ruler though, and one of them is SAturn - did you block a deeper sexual relationship / intimacy? Was it because of work- or health-related issues, or even having a feeling that you could not live that relationship everyday?
Would a relationship with him have somehow influenced your public image / reputation negatively? Or did you feel like it would lead you astray from your calling or career?


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Ceridwen
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posted August 27, 2011 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems, the ruler of 8th house aspecting ruler of 5th house, does happen quite frequently in synastries, especially with the man`s 8th house ruler and the woman`s 5th house ruler.

I saw that the two of you had it, and then I had a look at some celebrity charts:

(1) Diego Rivera - Frida Kahlo
his 5th ruler conjunct her 8th ruler (1)
his 8th ruler opposite her 5th ruler (2)

(2) Tom Hanks - Rita Wilson
his 8th house ruler ocnjunct her 5th house ruler (3)

(3) Paul Newman - Joanne Woodward
his 8th house ruler sextiles her 5th house ruler exact

(4) Paul Mc Cartney - Linda Eastman
his 8th ruler sextiles her 5th ruler widely (5)

(5) Henry Miller - Anais Nin
his 8th ruler trine her 5th ruler (4)

(6)Frank Sinatra - Ava Gardner
his 8th house ruler opposipte her 5th ruler (1)

(7) Johnny Depp - vanessa Paradis
his 5th ruler trine her 8th ruler (3)


Just thought that was interesting

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Lonake
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posted August 27, 2011 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi C, thanks for the input here :thumsbup:

"I think that the conjunction of IC-ruler and 8th house ruler maybe is the deepest possible intimacy-configuration ever. If you translate it to then atural rulers it would be like Moon conjunct Pluto.
Also, two waterhouses connected to each other. It is deep soulstuff; but the degree of emotional intensity can for some people be too much. I think it is probably nearly impossible to hide anything emotionally from each other, and for some people this kind of vulnerability and emotional openness and closeness may be just downright scary."
---Sorry to quote all of this, but so true! Add to it that we have Moon conj Moon, his Moon sq my Pluto in the synastry, and Moon conj Merc in the composite. Actually the Moon/Merc in composite is sq c.Uranus and we have had real telepathy with each other, picking up on thoughts/emotions/seeing pictures of what the other was imagining, only while in person not when apart, and I did not believe in telepathy prior to this (!) There was literally no where to hide and yes at times it was overwhelming. I don't really welcome future telepathy experiences after knowing him, I'd rather keep it all to myself now lol.

"I usually concentrate on conjunction, opposition, square and trine."
---OK I wasn't sure.

"(Personally I find the 4th and 8th housese to be the "deepest" and most personal ones; don`t know how you see it?)"
---8th yes very primal and close, 4th you need to be seen by the other person to feel truly accepted for WHO you are, the part you dont normally show, so very important there as well. 4th is where the mask comes off, the mc rep, ripping ourselves open to be vulnerable, its where we're relaxed, 8th is the deep bonding.

"'There might be a challenge / obstacle between your home / emotional needs and the way he approaches relationships. Also with his 11th house ruler squaring your 4th house Jupiter- did his friends or his engagement in certain social circles pose a hindrance?
Or did his ideals and perception of how to lead his life clash with your soul`s needs?"
---Wow you're right. Moved in diff social circles, not a common pairing, all my relationships are between me and someone you'd never think I'd choose. Yes we had to go on diff paths to keep true to ourselves, because how else can a person live you can't deny what you need to pursue to give your life meaning. Otherwise no point in living. Where we were suppposed to be was obv not with each other, so that has been painful to acknowledge. His Venus is sq my Jupiter and the Jup gives until they can't anymore and that was hard since no matter what I had to give it wasn't what he needed since it wasn't in line with what he ultimately wanted. I can't deny that my Scorp Jup in the 4th plays a -huge- role in what I value and what gives my life meaning and I've pursued that path no matter what. It goes well when it conj someone's personal Scorp planets anyway, or trines those in Pisces But not when it squares. You know how Jup is you want to experience it to the hilt. Nm the fact that his is in Gemini lol.

"Was that, at least for a time, a tad compulsive?
But that being a square, I guess even though the attraction was very intense, it might have been "too much" and something about it might have been too challenging or even "taboo" to work smoothly in a relationship. As great as emotional passions are, you cannot live from day to day on this kind of "high" (and not to forget, if Moon-Pluto gets you "down", it plunges you really into a hole)."
---Well I'll never stop loving him so yea lol. His Moon is conj my Venus. Yes intense but not so much sexually for me as just needing to be in his arms, feeling like that was home from day one. Never felt that for anyone else. (Btw he doesn't have any natal Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars-Pluto connections.) I'm sure when I do then my...those feelings will have a new home so-to-speak and my thoughts of him may cease? To this point everyone I've dated since has had to remind me of him, and if not then there's no chance. Sometimes I want to break the bond but at others I wonder where will my place in the world be without having that feeling. I don't want to live really without having that feeling. So if I find someone else that I have that with then in my mind anyway I can transfer it over. Other things in my life give me meaning, but I dunno, blame my Cancer NN lol.

"I like these harmonious connections. They may have helped to cushion the otherwise insane 4th/8th house-Moon/Pluto-interaction."
---O yes and the trines are in Air, and they make a Grand Trine in the synastry, my Mars/Saturn/Pluto trine his Mars trine Jupiter. Room to breathe, think things through, exactly.

"Do you want a relationship that is different from what you experienced in your family and maybe parental relationship?"
---Yes, ma'am I grew up in a Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto environment and I like my relationships to have a heavy dose of Mercury/Uranus to keep my mental interest. I wasn't mentally stimulated in childhood, there wasn't a lot that was -alive- there, despite the Jupiter there was not a lot of laughs and lightheartedness (maybe since Pluto is stronger there, it's right on the IC). I need someone to relate well to my Jupiter since I have that feeling in my own home, but not the home I came from as a standout characteristic. I've taken you could say the strongest Jupiter parts of my upbringing and have exaggerated them in my own home, what I give meaning to, to make up for the Pluto that I went through in youth, so that's another aspect.

"There seems to be an innate tension inside of you between your approach to relationships / partnerships and some deeper layer of your soul or even just your family-origin."
---So the result is that on the surface I'm Mercury/Uranus relating to someone new, and my Jupiter in Scorp, etc. comes out a bit later, when I feel ready to reveal that more vulnerable side, the side that's keen on spirituality, that needs deep experiences with the other, that thrives on intimacies. I guess this goes along with my Pisces Sun in the 8th, it needs the same sorts of things as my Jupiter, 'cept of course Jupiter laughs all along the way. But I can see how the Merc Aqua/Jup Scorp sq can be off-putting to others and give them a strange impression of what I want, am looking for, etc. The sq def comes out in my humor, at least in the beginning. It's not a typical sort of comedy.

"This is a square between the rulers of both sexual houses. NOw I am VERY interested how you experienced that, cause it seems to have been coming up quite a lot in charts I had been looking at.
I think there would be a strong sexual attraction, maybe even raw and primal in natural, though for you it may have been more playful (well, maybe not with Pluto as the ruler. lol), more giving you a feeling of being "alive", a spark of attraction and attention (it`s the Leo house after all), while for him it went deeper? (since it is the Scorpio house) Even more passionate? "
---Woman you are so f.keen you need a medal(!) :thumsbup: Yes I completely get this. I know it sounds weird with Pluto ruling the 5th but yes I saw the intensity of it and sometimes it felt like 'lemme play around with this and see what comes from it'. Not that I literally 'played around on him' as in cheated cos i never did that. But for instance, (ok and he has scorp rising), he would sometimes stare at me for a bit, looking vulnerable/intense/interested as they often do, and even tho he knew i was attracted I stared back for a bit then closed my eyes, turned my head, opened my eyes and then looked back at him. omg in the beginning his expression was priceless, but I was just playing around with the intensity of it all. We knew what the other one was feeling it was clear as day, but to play around with the intense dynamic gave me more laughs than it did him lol. He didn't really laugh when I did things like that, gotta tell you. I wonder if my Pluto squaring his Moon played into that too. I always cared for him, I promise. He always matters. But ya gotta be playful too, I guess cos sometimes it did feel overwhelming.

"But with the square, too much too handle possibly? Since the square connects different elements, there was something that was kinda at odds with each other when it came to sexuality?
Maybe the signs / elements of Pluto and Moon would give more insight here as to what the differences between you were? "
---My Libra Pluto his Capricorn Moon, so my Air, lighthearted calming the waves, vs. his super serious Capricorn that doesn't mess around when real feelings are involved? I mean I have Cap Moon too so I'm serious as anyone, but my Libra influencing it sometimes puts a lighter spin on what I'm going through vs. what I really feel inside as a way to distance/self protect.

"So I think this kind of transformative insane intense passion was maybe not as present for you; though the chemistry and emotional bond with your 5th and 4th house connection was undeniably strong.
Of course the sextiles still give a supportive energy to the 8th house issues, but it is mild compared to conjunction or square and others. And the 4th house just seems to be so much stronger in comparision."
---I agree with that, it's the emotional connection that I'm tied to vs. the physical, still. The same bond that I look to re-create with others, tho haven't found the same just yet

I'm gonna have to go over what you did here so I can pick up on the method. Like Ami said it's something you have to think on for a bit.
I'm gonna count em up to see if I understand this (no sextiles),
My h4 activated - VI
h5 - IV
h7 - II
h8 - N/A
His h4 activated - I
h5 - III
h7 - VI
h8 - III
So it's his h7 vs. my h4, like a Venus/Moon contact, correct? In synastry my Venus is conj his Moon. So basically his partnership needs were strongly activated here, meaning he was in a place to compromise, and consider someone else alongside himself, is that what I can glean from his h7 activation? He placed some planets in my 7th and I think that was the case, esp with his Venus there, he was very careful that we were on even keel and that one partner was not overshadowing the other.
I've noticed Venus in someone's 7th from this and other synastries that Venus is almost fanatical about having everything measure out equally with h7. Will go along and do things that they may not be willing to do for others simply because it's in the vein of keeping the relationship balanced and making sure the h7 person gets their due. What do you think? This has been the case for me when my Venus has been in another's 7th as well. For some reason I go out of my way to make sure that their needs are taken care of out of obligation. Maybe the obligation part is from my Venus being in Capricorn, but the people who have Venus in Aquarius do the same for me and Aquarius isn't really known to bend to others needs, are they? But they have for me, and it felt like it was out of a sense of obligation to keep everything like I said in perfect harmony.
OK have run out of synonyms for equality so will end it here lol.

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Lonake
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posted August 27, 2011 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK hi again
"Another harmonous aspect between the 4th houses (and 5th houses). There must be some emotional affinity there. Does he like how you express yourself, your creativity, or even sexual style?'
---I read Saturn/Jup trine as easily crossing normal barriers in relating due to age, racial, cultural etc. differences and that was completely the case with us. We have that trine as a DW so even stronger. So I can say that yes it translated to those realms. It was a good friendship aspect there. It made me feel like our bond was indestructible cos it felt like we had what we needed for the long term.

"great for communication, maybe also flirting."
---Yea I love Merc conj Venus.

"I wonder if Neptune opposing here brought some confusion or misunderstandings? Or was he "under your spell", did he idealize you, or found you even evasive?"
---Yes I find that the case with people who have Jup opp my Neptune. I don't consciously put any mysterious vibes out there but the fact that Jup in Gem has a million q's and is so chatty it made me feel like I didn't want to reveal all of me, didn't want it all on display. I've had this with others who have Jupiter in Gemini too so it's not just him. They also find me evasive, and some have gone as far as alluring but I think that's pushing it. Just the fact that their curiosity isn't being completely satisfied I think is the rub there.

"All in all it seems though that your emotional significators were stronger, and in his case it were the sexual significators.
Was he more attracted to you than the other way round? And you felt more belonging, being at home with him?"
---Yes, the belonging. I never expected him to be attracted to me I just remember being completely *hit* upside the head with this wave of emotional connection unlike anything else. It definitely didn't hit me when I met him 'wow he is sexy' lol, I was struck with how beautiful he was once I was actually able to see after being sideswiped by everything I was feeling. So not salivating, more of admiration. Later on I admired his body more, but I wasn't hit by that in the beginning. I feel that my level of emotional connection to him is stronger, that I feel it at a deeper level. I know I impacted him emotionally, and turned some of his ideas upside down re:how intimate two people can be, since he hadn't really related to women at that level much before he met me. He was good at distancing and joking around, running from commitment, same as I had been. Haha same as I am now.

"Intersting how his 5th house ruler has all the harmony and his 8th house ruler has the energized aspects!"
---I dunno what this means Does it mean his 5th was seduced into something his 8th couldn't handle? lmao.

"His 8th house ruler aspecting your sexual planets Venus and Mars - was there an ultra strong sexual attraction from him to you, one that maybe ran deeper than either of you really could deal with in ordinary life?"
---Well his sexual attraction to me was stronger than mine to him, something that surprised me. I felt chemistry, I loved the emotional and mental rapport but I didn't emphasize the sexual relationship as in come on to him or initiate. Tho I didn't reject him sexually either, I just didn't take the reins in that way with him.

"I am especially interested in his 8th house ruler conjunct your Venus - was he enthralled with your feminity and your emotional nature (Venus rules IC after all)?"
---Yes I think so, he'd say funny things that didn't make sense to me, such as look me over for a while really intently then say 'if you wore that for the rest of your life I'd be happy' and of course he just simply liked my outfit but that is really a strange way to compliment someone. First off he's assuming we're going to be together for a while, and second, normal people just don't talk like that. He'd look me over a lot and appraise me in that manner. I'm not so comfy with that sort of attn, my Venus squares Saturn. It was the appraising that was strange, as if I had a monetary value and he was happy with his find. Not that he treated me like an object, but there was I think an over emphasis on what I wore and how I looked.

"Your "practical" houserulers, 6th and 10th house ruler, square his 8th house ruler though, and one of them is SAturn - did you block a deeper sexual relationship / intimacy? Was it because of work- or health-related issues, or even having a feeling that you could not live that relationship everyday?
Would a relationship with him have somehow influenced your public image / reputation negatively? Or did you feel like it would lead you astray from your calling or career?"
---Yes my h6/h10 rulers are conj in my 3rd. I communicated that this was not going to be working longterm for me. Yes it would've led me away from my calling and the path I needed to be on. Yes it did anger him but he too needed to be going elsewhere. Bittersweet I guess :/ We see each other every so often, last time was May last year, we bumped into each other. The feelings were still there for both, but also the feeling that we are so different in important ways.
OK so his h8/MC ruler Merc squares my h6 ruler Saturn. So I guess I blocked it not being able to see us going on day after day (6th house of habits)
Also his h8/MC ruler Merc squares my h10 ruler Mars. Merc/Mars sq is arguments, haha, we had those too. Esp with the MC rulers square each other, my Mars at 19 his Merc at 20, pretty close. I wonder if that sq by itself also points to fundamentally diff paths?

Thanks again C for clarifying matters Much appreciated (!)

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Ceridwen
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posted August 28, 2011 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lonake,

thanks for the in depth response. I am very relieved to see that so many things I "saw" were true. That is always important to me, to see if some astrological technique really works, especially if I do not know too much about the background story.


"Moon conj Moon, his Moon sq my Pluto in the synastry, and Moon conj Merc in the composite."
Yes, of course it is important to see the overall picture, which includes the pure planetary aspects, also.
But often it is a bit difficult to handle all these interconnecting level.
For example:
my Venus squares someone`s Pluto.

leaving out the natals for a moment (which we never should! Of course it is significant that I have Venus square Pluto, and that the ruler of my 2nd house is in 8th house, and the ruler of my 8th house is in 2nd house, and actually the ruler of my 2nd house quinkunx the ruler of my 8th house in the 2nd and 8th houses. lol)

But focusing on the synastry, this one aspect holds so much information:

the planetary level:
my Venus squares his Pluto

the houseruler level:
Venus rules my 5th, 6th, 10th house
Pluto rules his 11th and 12th house

the houseplacement level:
Venus is in my 1st house
Pluto is in his 9th house (conj. MC)

And then of course these levels "interconnect"
my 5th, 6th and 10th house ruler squares his Pluto
his 11th and 12th house ruler squares my Venus

And then Venus and Pluto have some natural affinity to certain houses: Venus to 2nd and 7th and Pluto to 8th house.
Are there interconnections, as well, which could modify this?

Like in this case my Moon rules my 8th house and is in my 2nd house and it trines his Saturn in his 7th house, which rules his 2nd house.
And also my Saturn is in my 8th house and opposes his NN in his 2nd house and so on.

And then of course the question: what does it mean that not only our 2nd and 8th house ruler are in trine (which is a Venus-Pluto-connection), but the connecting planets are Moon and Saturn; delving into this I actually would have to look not only at where these planets rule or are placed, but they naturally rule the IC and MC. So what do the rulers of IC and MC do in our charts? (Well, for once the angles are conjunct ).

It also tells me that apparently there is an interconnection between a Venus/Pluto- and a Moon/Saturn - theme (2nd/8th house connected to 4th/10th house).
Is it a coincidence that Venus squares my Pluto natally, and Pluto sits on my MC?

It just becomes so much, such fine tapestry a chart is!
But how to really grasp it all?
Not a clue, not really.
I usually just start with the houserulers, look where they are placed, and also keep an eye on the connecting planets. Even that sometimes is so exhausting.
Do I still see the forest or am I just looking at trees?


"8th yes very primal and close, 4th you need to be seen by the other person to feel truly accepted for WHO you are, the part you dont normally show, so very important there as well. 4th is where the mask comes off, the mc rep, ripping ourselves open to be vulnerable, its where we're relaxed, 8th is the deep bonding."
I absolutely agree. I have exactly the same perception of these houses.

"His Moon is conj my Venus."
That is such a sweet aspect, and in your case intense I guess with the square to Pluto.

" Yes intense but not so much sexually for me as just needing to be in his arms, feeling like that was home from day one. "
Yes, that was what I meant. And I think that is very much in tune with the 4th house (and maybe the 2nd house). That comfort and home-feeling you get in someone else`s arms, but it isn`t the kind of attraction wehre oyu want to rip off his clothes immediately.

"es, ma'am"

"So the result is that on the surface I'm Mercury/Uranus relating to someone new, and my Jupiter in Scorp, etc. comes out a bit later, when I feel ready to reveal that more vulnerable side, the side that's keen on spirituality, that needs deep experiences with the other, that thrives on intimacies."
Yes.

"---My Libra Pluto his Capricorn Moon, so my Air, lighthearted calming the waves, vs. his super serious Capricorn that doesn't mess around when real feelings are involved?"
Yes, that makes sense I think.


"I'm gonna have to go over what you did here so I can pick up on the method."
I am not really aware of my method though.

"My h4 activated - VI
h5 - IV
h7 - II
h8 - N/A
His h4 activated - I
h5 - III
h7 - VI
h8 - III"
I haven`t checked it so thorougly (though it is something I usually would do - counting. LOL Though I feel I`d like to give those houses more emphasis, that are triggered by conjunctions; and probably I would also check for conjunctions / trines vs oppositions/ squares).


"So it's his h7 vs. my h4, like a Venus/Moon contact, correct?"
Yes, I guess you could see it like this.

"What do you think?"
Yes, I think Venus strives for balance and equality, certainly.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 28, 2011 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Intersting how his 5th house ruler has all the harmony and his 8th house ruler has the energized aspects!"
---I dunno what this means Does it mean his 5th was seduced into something his 8th couldn't handle? lmao."

If I only knew what I meant!

Seriously, I think on a 5th house level (which is the initial attraction-phase, whereas I think the 8th house level comes later, when you are getting close, emotionally close. It is a water house after all) he might have gotten the feeling that this was a pleasant attraction promising some appreciated sensual experiences, but with all the trines,he probably didn`t think that it could go really deep.
But then, enter the 8th house (or he entered his 8th house) and it turned out to be so much deeper and more intense and passionate than he would have expected it to be.


"Yes it would've led me away from my calling and the path I needed to be on"
I think that is something people often underestimate. They emphasise the importance of passion and chemistry and romance, and all that is important, donīt get me wrong, but I would always check for the 10th and 6th houses as well, to see if this relationship could have somewhere to go. If this does not fit, the attraction or love might be ultra deep, very real and all that, and yet there might not be a common path, despite the deep feelings.
I think that makes for really bittersweet lovestories.

Interesting, I never relaly thought about this so clearly, but I really should check these houses more often for longterm-potential.
Funnily Venus rules my 5th, 6th and 10th house, so it seems for me Venus must be a very pivotal planet.
What does it mean that my MC-ruler Venus squares Pluto on the MC, while Pluto rules the 11th and 12th house?
Hmm, sorry, I was just thinking aloud.

"So I guess I blocked it not being able to see us going on day after day (6th house of habits)"
Yes, that is what I meant.

"Also his h8/MC ruler Merc squares my h10 ruler Mars. Merc/Mars sq is arguments, haha, we had those too. Esp with the MC rulers square each other, my Mars at 19 his Merc at 20, pretty close. I wonder if that sq by itself also points to fundamentally diff paths?"
I wonder that, too. But it could very well be. Though it does not need to make a relationship impossible. Sometimes people manage to have a relationship despite different paths in life (not too different though of course).
But I think if the MC-rulers somehow involve the 7th house or its rulers it might becomes a really big challenge to make that somehow happen.

"Thanks again C for clarifying matters Much appreciated (!) "
You`re welcome. And I`m thankful, too, cause I think I am the one learning the most from it here.


Maybe we should add significators (6th and 10th house) for "everyday-life/ direction in life" as well.

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Lonake
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posted August 28, 2011 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"It just becomes so much, such fine tapestry a chart is!
But how to really grasp it all?
Not a clue, not really.
I usually just start with the houserulers, look where they are placed, and also keep an eye on the connecting planets. Even that sometimes is so exhausting.
Do I still see the forest or am I just looking at trees?"
---You're right, I thought back on your method after signing off and doing natals, doing transits, always important to pay attn to house ruler so why not the synastry? And with regard to events what you want to see, the ideal, is patterns repeating, not one isolated instance where you could overstate your case. So your method of looking at rulers here is something I've had to orient myself to a bit, but only because I'm not used to looking at many of them in synastry, mainly asc and dsc rulers.

"Yes, that was what I meant. And I think that is very much in tune with the 4th house (and maybe the 2nd house). That comfort and home-feeling you get in someone else`s arms, but it isn`t the kind of attraction wehre oyu want to rip off his clothes immediately."
---OK then I'm gonna be all about the 4th house from now on

"I haven`t checked it so thorougly (though it is something I usually would do - counting. LOL Though I feel I`d like to give those houses more emphasis, that are triggered by conjunctions; and probably I would also check for conjunctions / trines vs oppositions/ squares)."
---Ok this makes sense. I know you're not usually keen on counting up factors but maybe my h6 emphasis can't shy away from it lol.

"Seriously, I think on a 5th house level (which is the initial attraction-phase, whereas I think the 8th house level comes later, when you are getting close, emotionally close. It is a water house after all) he might have gotten the feeling that this was a pleasant attraction promising some appreciated sensual experiences, but with all the trines,he probably didn`t think that it could go really deep.
But then, enter the 8th house (or he entered his 8th house) and it turned out to be so much deeper and more intense and passionate than he would have expected it to be."
---I have the same view of the 5th and 8th, agreed.

"I think that makes for really bittersweet lovestories."
---Checkmark. haha (!)

"Funnily Venus rules my 5th, 6th and 10th house, so it seems for me Venus must be a very pivotal planet.
What does it mean that my MC-ruler Venus squares Pluto on the MC, while Pluto rules the 11th and 12th house?"
---If you have Scorpio on the 12th then secretly you are incredibly vulnerable and longing for intensity which doesn't jive well with all the Sadge in the 1st. Not that they fight, it's just that they're such different impulses. So I would read it as your ambitions taking you away from that deep relationship you want. But also unconscious impulses, Pluto ruling 12th, are having sway on what Venus as H5 ruler needs, which is that fun light partnership and of course venus wants to be desired. Something needs to be worked out, something painful perhaps, before you can make Venus/Pluto work for you. It's probably something that is difficult to acknowledge since we're talking h12 ruler and all. But if not worked with then as they say it will be the source of downfall, your one big regret. Capricorn Venus connected to MC/h6/h5 I read as you may find love with the career, easier to do it that way, than to be tied to a person. But maybe the more you attain in your career the further away you feel from the relationship you want to be in, so that after a while it feels like a substitute? I would think the solution is just to turn that energy you put into your career and reorient it to more venusian matters? What do you think? Pluto as h12 ruler conj MC channels intensity to career or ambitions and squaring Venus as mc ruler means romantic things may be left as an afterthought at first and then a casualty later on? 11th adding to it is ability to increase social circle through career choice, it involves more public contact since its conj MC?

"Maybe we should add significators (6th and 10th house) for "everyday-life/ direction in life" as well."
---Yes maybe, 6 for what our habits are what we dwell on daily, what we need to keep going, and 10th for one indicator of life purpose.


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Lonake
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posted August 28, 2011 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ I'm laughing at myself after writing the h6 bit right there, since I have Moon conj Venus in the 6th, Moon ruling the 12th, Venus ruling the 4th.
SQUARE closely Pluto which rules the 5th.
Always searching for the at home feeling but men I meet usually don't want to focus as much on the emotional...OK and I won't lie sometimes I'm scared of intimacy and I put it on the back burner. Definitely something I grapple with, finding the right balance there in my romantic approach.

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