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Author Topic:   Lord of Geniture
Xiiro
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posted October 16, 2011 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xiiro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been reading about the LoG recently and am a bit lost. I think my LoG is either Jupiter or Mercury.

Can anyone help me piece this out?

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have exactly the tradtl way of looking at this so I will just say what i see,
For essential dignity
-no domicile
-Mercury and Jupiter are in each others houses
-Sun and Mars are in each others houses, strengthened by exact trine
-nothing in its own house
-Jupiter is exalted, now has added strength
-diurnal chart with Sun in Fire, adds strength to Sun
-nothing in its term
-Venus is in its face
So the front runners are Sun/Mars and Jupiter. For accidental dignity there's not much there house wise. For accidental debility, Jupiter loses ability to act mostly for being Rx, also for being cadent. 8th is not a good place to act from for Sun. I would say that since Mars is ASC ruler in the house of the Sun and exact trine the Sun it has the ability if pushed to get the Sun to act since Sun is in the house of Mars. The square to Uranus of Mars doesn't count in traditional astrology. So I would put the emphasis for you on the interplay of Sun/Mars, with a bit of strength from Jupiter but Jupiter does not have much room to act, so it can only fill your mind (3rd), you have to rely on Sun/Mars to spur you on. That's my take, maybe someone more versed in the subtleties of this will come along. I will say that I do know the basics of Lord of Geniture (Ptolemy's tables, etc.) and in your chart nothing immediately stands out which is typically not a good sign. If Jupiter were in the 11th in Pisces, but not too close to the 12th, I would have said Jupiter easily. But all it does in the 3rd Rx is render your mind full of enthusiastic promise with no stable container to ground that vision into reality so it runs around inside itself, gaining steam with its exaltation but going nowhere. The Mars/Sun exact trine and house interplay with Mars as ASC ruler and Sun as 5th ruler is going to work for you more than Jupiter. The danger is the Sun in 8th which is a negative house feeling broken with the loss it encounters so rely on Mars to shift you out of that, along with Jupiter, even tho Jup cannot act for the most part it can put you in a positive mindest. That's my take.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted October 17, 2011 08:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What parametres r used in determinating Essential/Accidental Dignity?

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Domicile (depending on sect), mutual reception, exaltation by sign (stronger if it is also by degree), mutual reception by exaltation, triplicity, term, face.
Placed in angular or succedent house, the only really bad houses are 6,8,12 but the cadent houses in general are not strong, direct, in good exact aspect to a benefic (Venus/Jupiter) incl conj, conjunct Spica/Regulus, exact conj NN, Sun/Jupiter/Mars ahead of the Sun, Mercury/Venus behind the Sun.

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Xiiro
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posted October 17, 2011 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xiiro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Lonake, I appreciate the breakdown.

Regulus is in a 2 degree conjunction with Saturn. Saturn is also in mutual reception with Mercury and in a succedent house. It is however peregrine, and square Venus (sadface).

Mars is also peregrine which knocks it down a bit, but it rules the ASC, is ruled by the Sun, lives in the sun's house and is in both Leo's Decan and Duad.

The Sun, which is in it's own triplicity and is ruled by an exalted Jupiter, still feels a bit washed out being ruled by water, living in a water house, and (though not traditional) conjunct a water planet. Sun is also in Aries's Decan and Duad which seems oddly dependent on Mars to me, more than the Sun giving to Mars (which is in the same scenario). Possibly because Mars is in it's sign's house and the Sun is floating around in the 8th?

Hmm decisions decisions.

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know how ya feel, I have a day chart with Sun in the 8th as well.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tough call.

You have one exalted planet, Jupiter, which has weak accidental dignity, is retro and poorly aspected.

You have a planet in its own triplicity, Sun, but in a malefic house.

You have a peregrine planet, Mars, which rules the Asc, is succedent, and receives more aspects.

I agree with what Lonake said, but if you have to chose one of the 3, I'd go with Mars in Leo in the 5th. Though essential dignity is not very strong, as with the first two, Mars is in a happier house and positively aspected. And rules the Asc, making a trine to it. So in your case, I think, accidental dignity trumps essential dignity.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now you got me curious about my chart! What do you think?

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ That's a good point, you have to be able to act.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My players are:

-Mars in domicile, but cadent and afflicted by a malefic
-Jupiter in domicile, but retro. It's in the 10th and is well aspected, so it's a candidate
-Venus also in domicile, cadent though the only planet to conjunct an angle, so that might add some points to it. Further more, it's an Earth singleton and the only unaspected planet in my chart (or is that bad?)
-Sun exalted, succeedent, receiving a trine from Jupiter in the 10th.

Hmmmmmm...

I'm tempted to go with Venus. What do you think?

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lonake:
^ That's a good point, you have to be able to act.

I think so too. What use can you have of a powerful planet who's blocked to action? Sure it provides strentgh, but from what I understand the LOG is the planet that leads your life, and that means action and motion.

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Xiiro
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posted October 17, 2011 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xiiro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hera:
My players are:

-Mars in domicile, but cadent and afflicted by a malefic
-Jupiter in domicile, but retro. It's in the 10th and is well aspected, so it's a candidate
-Venus also in domicile, cadent though the only planet to conjunct an angle, so that might add some points to it. Further more, it's an Earth singleton and the only unaspected planet in my chart (or is that bad?)
-Sun exalted, succeedent, receiving a trine from Jupiter in the 10th.

Hmmmmmm...

I'm tempted to go with Venus. What do you think?


It's a toss up between the Sun and Venus for me, but I would go with the Sun. Venus's lack of angles and cadent house stand out to me. Though is has the domicile singleton thing going for it, it is unaspected.

The Sun not only participates in good angles with Jupiter, it is exalted, and rests in Leo's Decan and Duad. It also lends energy to your afflicted Mars via their shared conjunction to Mercury.

I would definitely go with Sun

PS: Thanks, I believe you and Lonake are right about my Mars.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xiiro:
It's a toss up between the Sun and Venus for me, but I would go with the Sun. Venus's lack of angles and cadent house stand out to me. Though is has the domicile singleton thing going for it, it is unaspected.

The Sun not only participates in good angles with Jupiter, it is exalted, and rests in Leo's Decan and Duad. It also lends energy to your afflicted Mars via their shared conjunction to Mercury.

I would definitely go with Sun

PS: Thanks, I believe you and Lonake are right about my Mars.


Yes, I really think Mars scores more points, though had a lower start. How do you feel about it being your LOG, how does it play out in your life?

Hmmm... I will think about what you said. I don't really identify much with my Sun in Aries in the 2nd (or am in denial lol). It's in the Virgo dwad, btw. Venus, however, kinda runs my life. I don't know if it's because it's unaspected and I'm trying to fill that void, or that it could be my LOG. Unaspected planets should be strong, because their energy is undiluted by other planets, but they also don't receive any support...
The only aspects Venus makes are to my angles - trine Asc and conj IC.

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hera:
I'm tempted to go with Venus. What do you think?

According to Ptolemy only Venus would really be domicile since it's a night chart and Venus governs Taurus at night. I like also that it is not conj Algol and is conj an angle.
Jupiter I also like because either if it's in 10th or 11th it's still a good placement and it has a good trine to the Sun. Jupiter is in the 10th and Saturn is in the 9th so I would give those extra points to Jupiter and not Saturn since Saturn is opp Mars.
Mars and Saturn I would discount due to their being opposed each other.
Mercury is too close to the Sun. But it is in the 2nd while Venus is in the 3rd, so I would say that is extra points for Venus there.
So if pressed I would say Venus first, then Jupiter.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted October 17, 2011 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So,Lord of Geniture is another way of finding the strongest planet,as an alternative to chart ruler and final dispositor?

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ My chart doesn't even have one, but a lot do.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lonake:
According to Ptolemy only Venus would really be domicile since it's a night chart and Venus governs Taurus at night. I like also that it is not conj Algol and is conj an angle.
Jupiter I also like because either if it's in 10th or 11th it's still a good placement and it has a good trine to the Sun. Jupiter is in the 10th and Saturn is in the 9th so I would give those extra points to Jupiter and not Saturn since Saturn is opp Mars.
Mars and Saturn I would discount due to their being opposed each other.
Mercury is too close to the Sun. But it is in the 2nd while Venus is in the 3rd, so I would say that is extra points for Venus there.
So if pressed I would say Venus first, then Jupiter.

Jupiter conjuncts Antares... *sigh* While Venus conjuncts the Martian Nodes, which is said to be very unfortunate for women. 3 rape attempts, but let's not go there.

Now I'm even more confused! LOL

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Well at least you have a choice lol. OK OK Fixed stars,
Jupiter - Antares, Rastaban, Venus not so strong there.
Well traditionally any Jupiter in Sadge is in domicile so you could take that route?

ETA,
In the first system of triplicity, a night chart would look at Moon's element, yours is Fire so the resultant planets to watch are: Jupiter/Sun/Saturn.
When you go that way you have strong Jupiter with accidental dignity as well. Sun is exalted and trine Jupiter and in succedent. Saturn loses some face but it is not in an evil house, just a weakened one. Tho the aspect to Mars throws it off.
Combine that with Jupiter conj Antares could yield more insight.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lonake:
^ My chart doesn't even have one, but a lot do.

Your chart doesn't have a LOG?

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
-

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Jupiter probably has more power to act than Venus does, being angular (it IS in the 10th because it's retro, hence returning to the 10th and not heading into the 11th). And Jupiterian things come very easily to me, whereas with Venus, though I yearn for it, it's always a struggle because it's unaspected and some kind of an "outsider" in my chart, not being included to the party.

So I think, after all, that Jupiter is my LOG. But he's retro, so I guess a modest life for me lol. That's alright, as long as I'm happy.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted October 17, 2011 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is very traditionalistic idea,having in mind that planet in cadent house is bad,and of bad outcome and influence. I understand the logics though - planet needs to act.

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Lonake
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posted October 17, 2011 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hera:
whereas with Venus, though I yearn for it, it's always a struggle because it's unaspected and some kind of an "outsider" in my chart, not being included to the party.

So I think, after all, that Jupiter is my LOG. But he's retro, so I guess a modest life for me lol. That's alright, as long as I'm happy.



That's an interesting take for Venus, sounds like something the ancients would say.

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Hera
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posted October 17, 2011 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I read it now. I guess Jupiter wins hehe.

I'm kinda liking your Mercury, in triplicity and angular. Saturn is too afflicted IMO. I'm also liking Jupiter in term, angular, trining the Sun, Asc ruler.

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lalalinda
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posted October 17, 2011 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
bump

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