posted November 03, 2011 08:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tuxedoMask:
yeah, that's exactly it. what the chiron person has been scared of feeling in a close relationship, is what the other person then feels after the relationship.. most of the time, they get involved with someone they share lots of their problems with.. it's not really at the beginning and there can be lots of testing the waters first but then eventually, it does turn into one of those things where they're aware of each other's soft spots probably more than most couples and can really get close to one another.

the other person becomes their shoulder, or the other person has a story that touches a soft spot in them; it's really the wound, though.. the part of it that sucks, is that sometimes chiron may find those relationships more comforting because the other person is already in a sense, 'wounded' so they feel they have someone to share pain with. it's cute at first, but then it can turn into something similar to that movie 'misery', that probably still runs on Lifetime.

i think it's worth the chiron person to definitely get involved in some sort of therapy so that the chiron has a way of working it's way out before it takes a toll on what could be very rewarding relationships.. because if not, then the chiron can reach a point in the relationship where they don't feel much else for the relationship and then reacts in what they've been scared of feeling all along passing the wound over to the other person. i think i've read it several times online "hurt people, hurt people".

as in the cases with people that have histories of abusive relationships.. the abused, at some point or another, becomes the abuser. a book that i'm sure most everyone has read 'a child called it'; kinda similar.. the boy was treated terribly by his mother and he decided to write the story and get it out so as to not treat his children the same way.

lots of the chiron story is also dealing with a lot of family karma.. there is a certain way to break the cycle and the pattern but it doesn't happen unless the person is wiling to really go deep and look at it all for what it is and recognizing it as it happens and what they're learning from the situations that they're attracting.

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My best friend from high school who I was friends with for 10 years has chiron in the 7th. Since the beginning I felt that she put a limit to how close we could get. I always felt she didn't let our friendship grow, it was her way of staying and been in control.

Eventually she met a new girlfriend and started calling her bestfriend bc she went to her for a crisis instead of me and she was a nice girl so she was there for her but had only known her for like a month.

This really hurt me a lot, I didn't cry for it but it hurt me enough that I stopped hanging out with her bc I got tired of her not letting our friendship grow and felt that it was always what she wanted to do and there was not a balance of give and take. to top it off she didn't come to me who had been friends with her for many years when she needed support and went to someone else who shortly after meeting starting calling her best friend. She ended up been friends with that girl for Maybe a year. After this I haven't been able to be best friends with a girl again.

I feel like am starting to perhaps open up again at least through this board with females and the other day I had a great video chat with my gemini childhood girlfriend that I grew up with and it felt so darn nice.

Thanks for your wonderful input. I have chiron in the 7th in whole sign system but in default system I have chiron in 6th. I think this perhaps means that both are relevant to me?

I suppose the goal is to gain awareness of the hurtful behavior we learned that we are now inflicting on others so that through this awareness we then have the power to stop the self defeating behaviors that hurt our personal relationships and keep them from growing.

posted November 03, 2011 08:11 AM            

Can chiron in the 7th be expressed by the following?:

posted November 03, 2011 08:14 AM            

what i've noticed by watching someone who had that placement, is that eventually, they have to go back and acknowledge that no one was to blame for their pain..

one in particular had a relationship.. the person moved across the country to move with them and as the relationship unfolded, the chiron in 7th started growing tired of it.. eventually, they begun to have an affair and told the other person that if they were to ever have one, they'd prefer to be single and break up with them rather than to cheat behind their back... well, they lied to them as they were cheating.

eventually, the person packed their stuff after they were kicked out, to move all the way back across the country to go back to their original home..

the chiron person didn't end up with the affair person, mind you.... a few years down the road, chiron met someone else.. chiron had been wanting a kid for a looong time and were told they'd never be able to carry.. well, with the new person that they met, they unknowingly got pregnant..

they had the baby and right after, husband had to go to another city for work.. while over there, chiron was left with newborn by themselves and once the husband returned, as they spent a few days in the bed together, after about 4 or 5 days of being home, they confessed to them that they had been cheating on them while they were away at work.

posted November 03, 2011 08:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by amelia28:
Tuxedomask,

Can chiron in the 7th be expressed by the following?:

Husband and I both have lets say abandonment issues and getting involved with him got rid of these abandonment issues for me but he still has them. Does this mean that he is expressing my wound and as a result I am not feeling it bec he is feeling it for me?

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posted November 03, 2011 08:45 AM            

Hubby's mother sent him to boarding school far away when she remarried bc stepfather felt disconvenient by his teenage presence.
His mother didn't fight for him so we share this wound of not been fought for.

posted November 03, 2011 08:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tuxedoMask:
as far as chiron in the sixth, only thing that i can say about that is something that i read about people doing things that they feel are of service or for the 'better good' and how they do it because of an innate feeling they have inside and sometimes, by trying to do good, they can not realize that by following certain protocols or things of that nature, that they're treating the 'greater good' as if it were a puppy mill, providing the same remedy to different people going through different things.. classic example would be a therapist in a mental hospital for example.. the hospital represents the twelfth and the chiron person would be the one to represent the sixth.. the doctor goes in and out of the hospital for work, they have their own lives, and they don't internalize the things tat are happening in said facility so they could then medicate or sedate the patients to keep em calm or make their jobs easier thinking it might be doing good but in reality, might not be doing any good at all.

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posted November 03, 2011 09:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
lol I feel like dumping him in other words forgetting he exists. I'm in one of those dark moods.

how can you just ignore it btw? just makes me feel as if they don't care.

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posted November 03, 2011 10:36 AM            

Dear tuxedoMasc,

I have been reading through your replies and wanted to ask you to shed some light on the placement of Chiron in my 4th and the connections it has with two men significant for me:
- the Chiron of the 1st man fells in my 4th;my Chiron fells into his 11th where his own is
- my Chiron fells into the 8th of the 2nd men, where his own is.

posted November 03, 2011 11:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tuxedoMask:
i think you're dealing with what a lot of people deal with at the offset of a lot of relationships which is going beyond your comfort zone... it's a step.. why you're feeling resentful is because you feel as if your efforts were not acknowledged and it means something much bigger to you to extend yourself that way.. no idea why you've been so emotionally guarded or what you've grown up around to teach you that u should be that way but what you feel, is probably VERY similar to what the venus in Cancer felt when they reach out for something.. if they meet with something like laughter, it reacts in the similar way you might feel right now and they really close off and nurture themselves.. i think i said it before, one really can choose just how far and intimate they can become with a venus in Cancer by how far they can really push their comfort zones.. a venus in Cancer will sense it.

but if it's on/off and a reluctant of a thing, all signs go up to protect and nurture the self and not really the other..

u could be upset, it's normal and a lot of girls and partners get upset when they've gone ahead to do something nice and then something like that happens but it think it's much more meaningful for you because you tried something that you normally wouldn't do.

it may feel like he put his friend over you but to him, it's totally reasonable as just the other day, you laughed in his face in an intimate setting because u didn't wanna cuddle; you're throwing him mixed signals.. i think u should talk about it.

he's probably not doing anything to get back at you, i don't know what he has in scorpio of if he is spiteful but the friend thing might just be true..

something i feel compelled to mention though, is that you should talk about what's important to you and what you feel and be open to listening to his point of view in regards as to what he feels and where he stands, too..

don't do it expecting a reward or expecting to be laid.. do it if you're interested in perhaps learning to develop intimacy and broaden your scope of sensuality/emotion..

that's something u can carry with you regardless of whether you're with him or not way into the future.

i find some people do gift giving with the same skeptical apprehension. they give expecting to be praised for their gift even when the gift was never asked for or if whether or not the other person liked it.

i'm not saying the gift thing is your case but if you do favors for someone and expect to do the favor your way, are you doing the favor for the other person, or do u do it for yourself so that you'd be thanked and praised rather than to be of help?

it's not a lack of respect.. he will notice that you made the effort to show him u cared and that won't go unnoticed even if it goes unmentioned.. watch his behaviour towards you and you'll see genuine affection.

where is your chiron, just out of curiosity? and what do you have in leo or capricorn? i think i can only say that capricorn finds such things to be a personal insult and hide behind some saturn like bravado where they command respect out of insecurity or fear of feeling vulnerable... most things in leo i find take a similar approach but hide somewhere and lick their fur til they're prim and proper and ready to ace the world again with their dignity..

but leo doesn't demand it, it earns it; commands it without having to say anything and really sticks it's nose up at those who don't respect the regal but capricorn is the one that makes the fuss about it and gets all personally insulted and then seeks to get back at the other or something of that nature.

i remember in the sex and the city movie miranda was all in a fuss when her bf cheated on her after they tried having sex one day and he wanted to make it last long and she just asked him to get it over with so that she could work in the morning after it had been MONTHS since they had sex..

he cheated on her and told her about it but what she was more upset about, was that she changed who she was for him.. it felt like she sold herself out on his behalf.

the lesson in that story or what i'm trying to say is, to not do it FOR them... if you're not comfortable spending money on him, like u said, it says a LOT about how u feel about that guy and where u stand.. when you like the person and genuinely feel ok in doing something like buying them a gift without expecting something in return, i think you can know that you care..

most of your things i think deal with safety.. u may not feel safe enough to reach out to someone else and rest assured that you'll be ok so you treat em with a 50ft pole.

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to the poster that said he might be doing this to ge back at me because I laughed at him the other day. That situation where I reacted by laughig at him sulking over not wanting to cuddle happened 9 months ago lol!

But back to tuxedo. I guess it just hurts because I don't do this for anyone. Not even my friends or family. I'm very "closed" off in the doing something kind department. I dont necessarily do "selfless" acts, because I always found I came to regret it. And felt unappreciated so I just never do nice things for others... and after having him clearly upset that he had no food to eat etc. I wanted to meet him halfway an showed that I cared and that I am listening and I DID promise him I would do whatever it took to make this relationship work... aka not running away and wanting to quit after one bad thing happened... so I wanted to make something for him. So when that situation came up I was very upset... Add to the fact that he hasn't even contacted me yet... but whatever. I will let him deal with what he has to do. The thing I noticed with Gemini suns though is they rarely apologize even though they know they are wrong so.. we will see... I just was feeling unappreciated i really went out my way to do something nice and it went to the garbage...

The reason for my emotional closing off is due to a lot of emotional pain in my past all in childhood:
1. Having to be around a bully of a narcissistic mother I I had no self esteem. Nada.
2. Having to be constantly let down and abandoned by my father.
3. Always reacting emotionally to situations in matters to friendships or family life and suffering for it, so I had to shut down emotionally in order to cope.
4. Being taken advantage of by men and my nicety or kindness, being played used etc.

So after all of that including my self esteem/self worth issues I don't use my emotions very much, if at all and if I feel them I experience vulnerability something I do not ever want to feel after my childhood I suppress and suppress and years of suppressing emotions has turned me into quite a robot/ with the numbness or detachment, but I have sought out therapy, still am in therapy. I've read upon Chiron in Leo, how the natives never received attention in childhood were not allowed to express themselves, creatively etc, abandonment etc that describes it perfectly but I never connected it to th 7th house. My way of self protection is to run away from vulnerability (it ruined a lot of healthy friendships in my past..) or to shut down emotionally. So when I went out of my way to do something I do not normally do it hurt, more than hurt, it ran deeply, reminded me of past situations. I couldn't "feel" that hurt but it was obviously something enough for me to shed a tear(and I don't cry rarely cry, if I do it's a single tear drop than it stops I just cannot cry like a normal person, I wish I could though, it probably feels nice to cry)

What you are saying is very interesting.. I'll continue to read. just thought I'd give some input. It sounds silly but I really feel like not being selfless at all or even trying to. stuf like this always happens idk may be being melodramatic here.

I also control my relationships a lot. I control how much effort I put into it... I control how much things I share. A lot of my failed relationships started off with,
THeM making and effort sharing stuff etc
while I wouldn't if at all.. not because I didn't care but because I didn't want to get hurt because getting hurt in any kind of relationships digs deep for me. Very deep.

I notice though when I actually put effort it I get the same treatment i gave to others.

posted November 03, 2011 12:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
I need some input here.

I was originally supposed to see my guy this Saturday but, since I have consideration for him, I really need to study for exams next week so I told him last night if we could reschedule, he said tonight would be fine. I explained to him I was going to be busy and couldn't plan whatever activities we had for Saturday. SO he said Tonight. So here I am, *actually* wanting to go out of my way to plan a nice meal for him since the last time I didn't he sulked and was upset. And since I read some of you guy's responses about Cancer placements loving food etc. I got excited and planned the evening out. So, 15 minutes ago i call him and ask him what time he wants to get ready etc. Than he gets quiet and tells me,
"Im sorry, Babe. But a situation just happened" I said, "Oh what situation?" he said "My friend, Alex, well he has family problems and his dad is very upset with him and he got kicked out, so I offered that he could stay at my place tonight." This was me: "................................ . . . . . ................................................................ . . . ." He asked, "babe?" I said "............. . . ." You know trying to take in the bullsh*t LOL. I said, ".............." he asked again "babe?" I said in my most chipper voice, "Okay! Okay great! Thats fine. Okay, I need to go now." and he interrupted with, "Babe wait. Im sorry, he just needed my help. But why can't we go with our original plans for Saturday?" I said "Its cool, I gotta go Don't worry." And he said "What do you mean? I asked you a question why can't we go back to Saturday?"
1. I was furious that he probably wouldn't have called me UNTIL I did...
2. In that moment I felt really annoyed that he put his friend over me. (yeah maybe thats a little self-centered..)
3. Instead of being angry i kind of lost all feeling. And it still continues. RIght now I don't even want to speak to him. I don't know why, I don't know if I am personally being selfish or what...

I am more upset of the fact that relationships are hard for me, I do not put others before me, and with this guy I kind of am, I mean I am trying to understand his ways, I am trying you know? And the fact that I cooked for him.. that really upsets me. I don't cook for just anyone.. I am taking his needs in and wanting to accommodate them. So I don't know, it just upset me. Now all the food is going to waste. And apart of me feels like closing off from him. I most likely will just not speak to him for a week or two, thats how upset I am. I also prefer not to speak to people when they've upset me. I truly feel he probably wouldn't have called to even tell me the "Situation" unless I did. Im curious if someone with a lot of cancer placements would act that way?

Do I have a right to be upset, or am I just being childish and selfish?

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posted November 03, 2011 12:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
You definitely have the right to be upset.
BUT consider that: 1) he didn't know that you were cooking for him and 2) he would tell you about his friend; you just happened to call him first.
If I were you, I would take my time to cool down and then eventually call and explain that you had a surprise for him and so his cancelling upset you.
I think it's normal that he wants to help his friend. I would love to hear a man is so generous with his friends.
What I did not like though is that he insisted in meeting on Saturday when you had told him that you will be busy with exam prep. He didn't seem to respect your time or availability even though you had explained to him that you were not going to be available then. That is not good. I would insist NOT to meet until I have the time for it.
You are not so abnormal with relationships if this is a hardship you deal with. Misunderstandings like these are routine for close relationships. Don't worry.

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posted November 03, 2011 12:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
I guess I was being a little blinded by my own fury.. I actually do think its really endearing that he is that compassionate. It definately impresses me..But you are right I should take time to cool off. im clearly still a bit upset haha. And sometimes he needs to hear reminders, I didn't remind him again last night because I was very upset and I didnt want to talk while being upset. I think that kind of made up upset that I couldn't talk or give him any details about why I was busy etc.. because I was upset and I dont like talking while being upset because I get very mean and nasty haha

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Yes, it makes perfect sense. Best not to talk to someone when upset. I would (try to) do the same. So it's wise that you didn't insist in anything when you talked on the phone. Relax, calm down, cool off, dont' call until you feel OK with him. Then, call and explain why you got upset so he knows that that hurt! And then remind him that it's not a good time for you to meet due to your exam.

I think you are doing WAY better than you think. I agree with the others that you definitely make efforts to care for him. That's pretty sweet. You're a better gf than you think, hun!