posted April 19, 2012 11:48 AM            

http://www.astro.c om/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=vwjfileKFJfdV-u1331894290&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=23&smon=3&syr=2012&hsy=2&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=

just called my 41 yr old son out
after years of misery and blame--suddenly saw it wasn't me but him. i will have a lot of ups and downs and a long period of mourning because i won't see him unless he gets counseling and he won't do it, he will never 'fess up. cure for stockholm syndrome?

posted April 19, 2012 01:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Dear Lady,

How has your son abused you? I am enquiring out of concern and curiousity. I'm in my 40s myself.

---

yes, mostly verbally and emotionally, only once physically a long time ago when he was 16--he is now 41. when i am near him i feel a tension in him and i think he has to restrain himself from hitting me. it just comes over him and i feel sorry for him but we both suffer from the tendency to sympathize with our abusers.

posted April 19, 2012 02:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hskahn:
yes, mostly verbally and emotionally, only once physically a long time ago when he was 16--he is now 41. when i am near him i feel a tension in him and i think he has to restrain himself from hitting me. it just comes over him and i feel sorry for him but we both suffer from the tendency to sympathize with our abusers.

---

I'm terribly sorry. There are no excuses for being rude to your mother, much less hit your mother.

posted April 19, 2012 02:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I'm terribly sorry. There are no excuses for being rude to your mother, much less hit your mother.

---

well, i've made a million excuses for him but now i have to stop because i must and i don't expect a good result bec i think it's brainwashing. can u look at my chart? here's the link:http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=vwjfileKFJfdV-u1331894290&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=23&smon=3&syr=2012&hsy=2&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=

posted April 19, 2012 02:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hskahn:
well, i've made a million excuses for him but now i have to stop because i must and i don't expect a good result bec i think it's brainwashing. can u look at my chart? here's the link:http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=vwjfileKFJfdV-u1331894290&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gw&sday=23&smon=3&syr=2012&hsy=2&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=

---

posted April 19, 2012 03:10 PM            

Now for your natal,
Issues with the children in general are a H5 matter. I don't use Equal houses so I've entered the data & have a Placidus chart.

--You have n.Neptune in Libra in H5 sq to Venus in Cancer. This is a marker for being deluded in general in romantic relationship. Yes it can attract abusers simply because Venus/Neptune people seem so unguarded and vulnerable. As it's in the 5th it correlates to issues with romantic partners and children as well. So this is not a new thing for you. On the other hand, you have ability to seduce partners. So the energy could be used either way. Neptune in Libra generation, they are v.idealistic in their partnerships, a v.romantic ideal they have in mind; that just adds to the issue here. You wanted to believe in an ideal child, an ideal relationship, to live the dream, as if it was in a movie. But reality happens.

--Also there is Mars in Libra in H5, in a sq to Venus in Cancer as well. This can indicate timing problems in relationships. Regarding the child, you wanted a good relationship but they were out of your grasp maybe with friends, or when they wanted to get closer, you were busy with something. There is something off here. Libra Mars is not the most assertive so maybe you spent a lot of energy on trying keep the peace in this matter if it ever resulted in frustrations.

--Ruler of H5 is in H4. Much of your joy comes from your family/home life, or at least you want it to be that way. This is where your creative energy is focused so it renders you fertile & interested in this area, paying a lot of attn to it. But you want it to run on a certain course since the ruler is Merc in Virgo (also your ASC ruler), can be picky & can also get back picky and cutting behavior. We get back what we give out.

Now for the progressed chart so I can tell you more about the current situation,

Highlighted some things here for reference,

--First, going back to the 5th. In that purple rectangle there you can see t.Saturn (red) has passed over your Mars late last yr, that is a definite marker for abuse, but more than that Mars/Saturn is sadistic. You have your p.Mercury (in green) [which we've already seen connected to your H5] coming up to conj the n.Mars as well. Keep in mind t.Saturn retros as far back as 22 Libra, then it will turn direct. So expect the pressure to increase gradually from now until some time in early Oct re:this exact matter. After that, t.Saturn is on your n.Sun in the 6th, so the pressure then will be on work matters, on health matters, on getting a stable fixed routine. Also sa.Pluto (in blue) is coming up to your Mars. I agree that it would best to maintain some sort of distance if you feel that you are in danger. But I think more than that, that is a v.good time to stand your ground and stick up for yourself. Saturn in Libra reminds us that relationships need to consist of balance, of each one gaining something in return for something, and that proper boundaries need to be erected. This is v.good for you now, because it keeps you from losing yourself in another, living for someone else. It's a hard lesson but a good one. Saturn is exalted in this sign. Also don't assume that the other person will listen to you, just like us Mars in Libra folk love to assume. Not everyone will see our point of view just because we see theirs. So know the limits, that's what Saturn says. Like I say your Mars is 22 & t.Saturn is going to come back to this so if you think this is the last you've heard from him it's likely that that is not the case. You're going to be dealing with this throughout the summer & early into the fall while Saturn is still in Libra.

--I mentioned Mars/Saturn for abuse. It comes up again in your 4th, blue rectangle. This time it's t.Mars conj p.Saturn there. This is an influence that is of shorter duration than the above. But t.Mars is at 3 Virgo today, same degree as p.Saturn, but it's quickly moving on. It will stay conj for the rest of the month & up until early May. This time it's in Virgo tho, not Libra as the other. Mars Virgo wants to clean house and strip away what is not *working* so that we can be at our healthy & productive best. p.Saturn in the 4th brings to mind a sense of loss in the home, but also a more stable foundation once that loss has been grieved, that is the positive manifestation.

--Now to the top of the chart, by your Moon. We have t.Uranus there in Aries. It's now at 7 degrees so it's in applying conjunction. Moon/Uranus can indicate a sudden change to the immediate family situation, very common. So you have the Moon in Aries, which is pretty independent & doesn't want to take any crap. They tend to be straight shooters. Uranus is coming up and egging it on, pushing it to activate quite strongly. You want to make sudden changes possibly to prove that you are not one to be messed with, to stage your own rebellion in the name of freedom. So I can see here how you would view the break as a positive. Just keep in mind it is a transit. It will pass, so remember what you eject suddenly out of your life will not always return. But it's a positive to stick up for yourself. Moon rules your 3rd house of short journeys, communications, so if you suddenly for example stopped talking to him/visiting him, I could see that with this association. You have Moon in 11th so it has high ideals & you want to live for those instead of what your H5 has been giving you.

--Last thing I saw after looking rather quickly is t.Pluto now at 9 Capricorn, is crossing your sa.SN exact. Natally you have Pluto in the 3rd in Leo which can come across as arrogant & forceful in communications, but likely that people listen when you speak since it's not afflicted... But then it's trine to Jupiter in the 7th in Sadge which can be quite boastful. In any event I think this leads to being proud of the decision that you're making. The point is that it's natally tied to communication, passing over the SN in the 8th, you can see an ending there of sorts, wanting to make a clean break from a past pattern.

posted April 19, 2012 04:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Did you 2 ever talk as adult-to-adult and air your grievances? If there is abuse then it's covering up something but you also have to accept your hand in the matter, since this is the child you raised. Now you have to deal with the consequences, but it'd be unfortunate for the entire relationship to be lost.

[b]Now for your natal,
Issues with the children in general are a H5 matter. I don't use Equal houses so I've entered the data & have a Placidus chart.

--You have n.Neptune in Libra in H5 sq to Venus in Cancer. This is a marker for being deluded in general in romantic relationship. Yes it can attract abusers simply because Venus/Neptune people seem so unguarded and vulnerable. As it's in the 5th it correlates to issues with romantic partners and children as well. So this is not a new thing for you. On the other hand, you have ability to seduce partners. So the energy could be used either way. Neptune in Libra generation, they are v.idealistic in their partnerships, a v.romantic ideal they have in mind; that just adds to the issue here. You wanted to believe in an ideal child, an ideal relationship, to live the dream, as if it was in a movie. But reality happens.

--Also there is Mars in Libra in H5, in a sq to Venus in Cancer as well. This can indicate timing problems in relationships. Regarding the child, you wanted a good relationship but they were out of your grasp maybe with friends, or when they wanted to get closer, you were busy with something. There is something off here. Libra Mars is not the most assertive so maybe you spent a lot of energy on trying keep the peace in this matter if it ever resulted in frustrations.

--Ruler of H5 is in H4. Much of your joy comes from your family/home life, or at least you want it to be that way. This is where your creative energy is focused so it renders you fertile & interested in this area, paying a lot of attn to it. But you want it to run on a certain course since the ruler is Merc in Virgo (also your ASC ruler), can be picky & can also get back picky and cutting behavior. We get back what we give out.

Now for the progressed chart so I can tell you more about the current situation,

Highlighted some things here for reference,

--First, going back to the 5th. In that purple rectangle there you can see t.Saturn (red) has passed over your Mars late last yr, that is a definite marker for abuse, but more than that Mars/Saturn is sadistic. You have your p.Mercury (in green) [which we've already seen connected to your H5] coming up to conj the n.Mars as well. Keep in mind t.Saturn retros as far back as 22 Libra, then it will turn direct. So expect the pressure to increase gradually from now until some time in early Oct re:this exact matter. After that, t.Saturn is on your n.Sun in the 6th, so the pressure then will be on work matters, on health matters, on getting a stable fixed routine. Also sa.Pluto (in blue) is coming up to your Mars. I agree that it would best to maintain some sort of distance if you feel that you are in danger. But I think more than that, that is a v.good time to stand your ground and stick up for yourself. Saturn in Libra reminds us that relationships need to consist of balance, of each one gaining something in return for something, and that proper boundaries need to be erected. This is v.good for you now, because it keeps you from losing yourself in another, living for someone else. It's a hard lesson but a good one. Saturn is exalted in this sign. Also don't assume that the other person will listen to you, just like us Mars in Libra folk love to assume. Not everyone will see our point of view just because we see theirs. So know the limits, that's what Saturn says. Like I say your Mars is 22 & t.Saturn is going to come back to this so if you think this is the last you've heard from him it's likely that that is not the case. You're going to be dealing with this throughout the summer & early into the fall while Saturn is still in Libra.

--I mentioned Mars/Saturn for abuse. It comes up again in your 4th, blue rectangle. This time it's t.Mars conj p.Saturn there. This is an influence that is of shorter duration than the above. But t.Mars is at 3 Libra today, same degree as p.Saturn, but it's quickly moving on. It will stay conj for the rest of the month & up until early May. This time it's in Virgo tho, not Libra as the other. Mars Virgo wants to clean house and strip away what is not *working* so that we can be at out healthy & productive best. p.Saturn in the 4th brings to mind a sense of loss in the home, but also a more stable foundation once that loss has been grieved, that is the positive manifestation.

--Now to the top of the chart, by your Moon. We have t.Uranus there in Aries. It's now at 7 degrees so it's in applying conjunction. Moon/Uranus can indicate a sudden change to the immediate family situation, very common. So you have the Moon in Aries, which is pretty independent & doesn't want to take any crap. They tend to be straight shooters. Uranus is coming up and egging it on, pushing it to activate quite strongly. You want to make sudden changes possibly to prove that you are not one to be messed with, to stage your own rebellion in the name of freedom. So I can see here how you would view the break as a positive. Just keep in mind it is a transit. It will pass, so remember what you eject suddenly out of your life will not always return. But it's a positive to stick up for yourself. Moon rules your 3rd house of short journeys, communications, so if you suddenly for example stopped talking to him/visiting him, I could see that with this association. You have Moon in 11th so it has high ideals & you want to live for those instead of what your H5 has been giving you.

--Last thing I saw after looking rather quickly is t.Pluto now at 9 Capricorn, is crossing your sa.SN exact. Natally you have Pluto in the 3rd in Leo which can come across as arrogant & forceful in communications, but likely that people listen when you speak since it's not afflicted... But then it's trine to Jupiter in the 7th in Sadge which can be quite boastful. In any event I think this leads to being proud of the decision that you're making. The point is that it's natally tied to communication, passing over the SN in the 8th, you can see an ending there of sorts, wanting to make a clean break from a past pattern.

Best wishes,
[/B]

---

thank you v. much for this. i really needed it. i looked at my lunar return and was surprised to see its strong positive energy. I consulted the I Ching and it was also meaningful and positive. it is hard for me to defend myself and i feel way out on a limb. i'm a placidus person, too, so i speak that language--don't know much equal house.

my son and i don't us usually talk, we don't talk often and we tend to argue unless we talk baseball. he pushes my buttons. hard to find common ground. he thinks i'm a bleeding heart liberal and he will say all kinds of racist, sexist, ageist, things to me. he's a good guy so i always feel socked in the jaw. more than that, he boxes for his sport.

yes, i had the ideal in mind in wanting to have a child (1970). i also lost a little girl late in a pregnancy that fell apart in the 7th month (in 1973).i wanted my child to be all the love i didn't have in a troubled lonely childhood. i married a batterer (yes, he battered me before we married and before i became pregnant) and by the time i left the marriage my son had witnessed a lot and i'm sure he wanted to be protected from his father and so identified with his/mine abuser. i've known that for a long time but haven't known how to use that info in a productive way.

i am rather passive (nep trine asc) but fight back (mars libra deposits moon in aries) rather ineffectively. i've taken meds for depression most of my life. i'm sensitive and he has aries rising, saturn in 1st, sun-cancer/mars-leo conjunction, moon in aquarius in the 11th, venus in virgo so maybe he pokes me bec he wants me to be stronger. instead i freak: venus in cancer--i guess needs a lot of love. with sat on my sun i tend to feel cut off emotionally and down on myself.

my son has my survival skills but i was too out of it to say i raised him--everything was always chaotic and as he got older i had no clue how to meet his needs. my own childhood was so weird and deprived and i was so unhappy and lonely, i was an incompetent person altogether, not stupid but confused deeply. i wanted to find happiness having a child and i can't regret him but it has always been out of control. he by the way is doing very well--marriage, kids, job, dogs--everything i wanted for myself he has which is great. on some level i was a great success if a parent matters. i never demanded respect. he's always treated me as he saw his father treat me and has always chafed at my perceived weakness. i am a sitting duck for emotional and verbal abuse--i go belly up very easily. people tell me all the time that i'm too nice so i'm trying to firm up my margins but when i do i feel like taking a dive down a hole.

thanks so much for your work for me.

xo

posted April 19, 2012 04:55 PM            

t.Saturn is coming back to 22 Libra,
it will be at that exact degree from 6/8/12-7/11/12.
From 6/8-6/24 it is retrograde, and on or about the 25th it turns direct.
Stays direct from 6/25 then moves past that degree on 7/12 and continues on so that's the last hit,
but it stays at 22 for quite a while. Those seem to be key dates re:this matter, which is likely a test.

posted April 19, 2012 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Thanks for the feedback. Happy that he is doing well otherwise as that is what parents wish. As an aside, I see that Mars rules your 12th of self undoing, so that is a place to look at if you feel that you might be your own worst enemy in a matter.

t.Saturn is coming back to 22 Libra,
it will be at that exact degree from [b]6/8/12-7/11/12.
From 6/8-6/24 it is retrograde, and on or about the 25th it turns direct.
Stays direct from 6/25 then moves past that degree on 7/12 and continues on so that's the last hit,
but it stays at 22 for quite a while. Those seem to be key dates re:this matter, which is likely a test.

Funnily enough my n.Mars/Saturn are conj @ 19/21 Libra. So it's fitting that I'm looking at this matter in your chart. I too have recently undergone tests regarding boundaries in relationships & the limits of seeing anothers' view to the detriment of my own (classic Libra Mars).[/B]

---

thanks a million for helping me with this context. i have been wondering lately about my cardinal t-square which is being triggered by pluto in cap and sat in libra. i worked so hard to be conscious of the recent mars retro and sure enough on the last day when it was stationery, i lost control and i fell into the trap which presented itself.

mars--definitely the deal with my self-undoing. i can do really well and then i feel hurt and the pot boils over. with my son, it's an ongoing issue. i realize that for us when we are in a room together, or even on the phone, it gets so tense that it is almost like his father is in the room with us. our connection is sort of haunted--some lingering shadow of evil. i wish we could talk but he clicks off when i get upset and then when i a regain my stability nothing therapeutic happens and when i get upset again and he tunes me out again. he ignores me when i need help and ignores me when i am okay. i need more tlc than he can give bec of his busy life--like it is to late for us to find now what we missed in his childhood. it is huge loss for me. i feel he has found excellent ways to meet those needs that i'm still not finding. i've always been a person sort of mired in the past and in my depression.

it is very true what you point out about the idealism which prompted my pregnancy--i wanted to create a situation to solve my problems and make me happy and feel needed and loved. I didn't realize how far it was from point A to point B and i have been stuck in a very awkward space since. i was trying to get over the past--the sun/saturn conj in my 4th--but i learn that first i have to shine a light on the mess to navigate an exit. then the mess is so digesting that i can't take my eyes off it. interesting that i have been a serious ballet student many years. i stumble badly in life but it is also an issue for me to move from one place to another with some grace and aplomb--i have a good deal of talent that i really can't manage.

i do a lot of astrology for others and i really needed some help from someone else. thank you v much. you have given me a lot to re-read.

the next 6 months pluto and saturn will be playing on the edges of my t-square and uranus will be bumping my moon. it's drawing a grand square, roughly. the venus retro upcoming. how do you see this mix?

posted April 19, 2012 10:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Thanks for the feedback. Happy that he is doing well otherwise as that is what parents wish. As an aside, I see that Mars rules your 12th of self undoing, so that is a place to look at if you feel that you might be your own worst enemy in a matter.

t.Saturn is coming back to 22 Libra,
it will be at that exact degree from [b]6/8/12-7/11/12.
From 6/8-6/24 it is retrograde, and on or about the 25th it turns direct.
Stays direct from 6/25 then moves past that degree on 7/12 and continues on so that's the last hit,
but it stays at 22 for quite a while. Those seem to be key dates re:this matter, which is likely a test.

Funnily enough my n.Mars/Saturn are conj @ 19/21 Libra. So it's fitting that I'm looking at this matter in your chart. I too have recently undergone tests regarding boundaries in relationships & the limits of seeing anothers' view to the detriment of my own (classic Libra Mars).[/B]

---

============================================================================================================================================
thanks a million for helping me with this context. yes, his being successful in his life is the main thing or SHOULD be. i have been wondering lately about my cardinal t-square which is being triggered by pluto in cap and sat in libra. i worked so hard to be conscious of the recent mars retro and sure enough on the last day when it was stationery, i lost control and i fell into the trap which presented itself.

mars--definitely the deal with my self-undoing. i can do really well and then i feel hurt and the pot boils right over--i never know when i am so close--it happens so fast. with my son, it's an ongoing issue. i realize that for us when we are in a room together, or even on the phone, it gets so awkward that it is almost like his father is in the room with us. our connection is sort of haunted--some lingering shadow of evil even though i know we both try hard to rise above our troubles. i wish we could talk but he clicks off when i get so intense/upset and then when i a regain my stability nothing therapeutic happens and when i get upset again, he tunes me out again. he distances me when i need help and ignores me when i am okay which is his idea of normal and maybe that's right. i need more tlc than he can give bec of his busy life--it is to late for us to find now what we missed in his childhood. it is a huge loss for me. i feel he has found excellent ways to meet those needs that i'm still not finding. i've always been a person sort of mired in the past and in my depression. do you have a take on a direction for me that could meet more needs. i work with children in pre-k and after-school programs. i like to be with children so i am not interested in more lucrative administration posts. i don't want to tell other people what to do, i want to do my thing. i have thought of a religious life--a buddhist nun……i'm not an artist but art in my life is important. i appreciate nature but like to live in the diverse world of a big city.

it is very true what you point out about the idealism which prompted my pregnancy--i wanted to create a situation to solve my problems and make me happy and feel needed and loved. I didn't realize how far it was from point A to point B and i have been stuck in a very awkward space since. i was trying to get over the past--e.g. the sun/saturn conj in my 4th--but i learn that first i have to shine a light on the mess to navigate an exit. then the mess fascinates me and i examine it endlessly--merc in virgo. interesting that i have been a serious ballet student many years. i stumble badly in life but it is also an issue for me to move from one place to another with some grace and balance--i have a good deal of talent that i manage poorly. not much ground/earth in my chart--venus in an earth house, mercury in an earth sign, saturn plop on my Sun.

i do a lot of astrology for others and i really needed some help from someone else. thank you v much. you have given me a lot to re-read.

the next 6 months pluto and saturn will be playing on the edges of my t-square and uranus will be bumping my moon. it's drawing a grand square, roughly. the venus retro upcoming. how do you see this mix?

Helene
kahnhs@yahoo.com

posted April 19, 2012 11:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mercuranian:
im not condoning abusive behavior, but he probably resents you for expecting him to fill the hole you had from your love deprived childhood with his love. also he probably resents you for bringing him up in such a chaotic environment. i have the same problems with my mother. she calls me abusive and fails to see how she abused me my whole life whether consciously or unconsciously. (not saying you're an abuser i don't know you).
what's his pluto doing in his chart? how's his moon aspected?

---

yes, i quite agree with you @ your mother and can certainly see a connection bet her and me. then i wonder what her childhood had been like and what her probe are and whether or not she was playing with a full deck. i was more like my mother, it was more a matter of benign neglect but her relationship with her mother was very abusive and she was certainly not that bad with me and i was certainly better in that sense than she was. she unfortunately moved in with her abusive mother with me so while it was awful for her it was beyond that for me, a baby. i just hung out in relative poverty bec my son's father told me he would kill me if i tried to get money from him. after 5 years of my being battered i would say we were both, my son and I suffering at the very least from PTSS which really inhibited my ability to make a decent life for us. kids don't much care about what their parents problems were but knowing about what my mother had to rise above helped me deal with my feelings of being unloved and unwanted--which in fact i was. but i at least understand why.

his moon is in the 11th house in aquarius opposite 5th house mercury in leo. the moon is square saturn in taurus in the 1st which is opposite neptune in scorpio in the 7th. Neptune, moon, saturn, and mercury form a loose fixed grand square. he has aries rising. his pluto is in virgo in the 6th trine his saturn sextile his sun in the 4th. sun in cancer is conj his mars in leo and mars is the ruler of his chart (aries rising)

thanks for chiming in.

posted April 20, 2012 12:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Just quickly for now,
You have t.Neptune in Pisces in 10th in applying opp to p.Saturn in the 4th. You're being challenged right now to show compassion both to yourself, your son, and to his father if you can. Home/career matters could be confusing/dissolving. It may be difficult if you've been in a destructive pattern for some time & only see negativity on the horizon, but it will pave the way for change and help to combat the depression from the losses. Saturn/Neptune can symbolize a loss of faith. If you don't see any big picture rationale for things to get better in time, then you might need to forcefully induce it by taking on the role of the healer for yourself to get through the hurdle. I can say this to you because you can't show compassion when you don't acknowledge any mistakes or wrongdoing, and you have. So compassion for yourself is the next immediate step. It may involve more sadness because the depression might make you think that you don't deserve it. It's a trick that the mind plays because it gets stuck in a pattern. More later.

---

i've made lots of mistakes and wrongdoing but i am very hard on myself. i am ashamed of myself yet i'm pretty open about that i think i was an incompetent mother. i don't forgive myself but i do know that i don't feel compassion for myself and i feel very sorry for ben but happy he survived me as a mother. i hope in my panic and mental illness that i did him some sort of good. i had negative role models and maybe that's all i was for him--an example of someone he didn't want to be like. i always feel like i want to kill myself so i am self-punitive. i go to the ER when this gets too intense so i don't feel in danger. i tried once and it was unplanned and an impulse but i could've died so i'm aware that i can go off on an angle.

my psychiatrist can't understand why i am so hard on myself lol. i have been in therapy forever, i am faithful to my meds since i had a real live nervous breakdown 4 years ago, i worked with a shamanist years ago and did some journeying which was interesting, i've spent years as a zen student and did a lot of meditation, of course, and also had a kensho which has helped me very much with a sense of Oneness with others and the universe. i am definitely open to being more of a healer to myself--i think i could do tis as a leo with neptune in the 5th trine the ascendant.

yes.

posted April 20, 2012 12:11 AM            

It seems like there is a safety concern esp. if you notice him holding back and restraining himself. He'll explode. I think it's best to figure out his want. It seems he feels hurt or vulnerable.

Maybe he blames you for pitting them with the father, who was abusive. I assume the father did hte same to him. Maybe he feels like no one was there to protect him and he blames you for not being strong enough?

In any case, let him do the talking but not in front of you. Tell him to use a voice recorder or write a letter to you. Tell him you want to correct the wrongs you might have committed against him because you love him and want to see him free from pain. I don't recommend having him tell you face to face because it will be less thoughtful and reflective for him, he might get riled up and act upon it, and you are a sitting target.

After you get the info, refute nothing. Mull over what he said to you. If in his position, does it make senes to feel that way? Remember some cry and then some get angry. We react differently. But can you agree on the point where he says he hurts? If yes, then acknowledge it. Let him know what you hate having put him in that situation and that it hurts you every single day. Tell him you wished you were stronger and would have protected him better. Tell him that you love him and see potential in him to be a great human being. Tell him you admire him for xyz. Basically make him feel good about himself.

You acknowledge his pain, and that helps take the frustration out of him.
You detail his pain, and that helps him know for sure that you get it.
You acknowledge you weakness, and that helps him know that you are being realistic and fair.
You make him feel better by telling him how you love him and through genuine compliments, and that helps to bring him to a new place.

You are still and will always be the mothr of that child even if he's a 100.

I know you went though a lot of pain. It's nice to have someone to count on right? I hope that by doing this his anger is released in a constructive and mature way as to allow healing .... for the both of you.
I know you have guilt and anger too. It won't help if you continue in the same course with your son. You want him to heal so that you can heal.

I hope that helps. I also hope I didn't seem like a know-it-all. I'm definitle not an expert in r/s matters as I have my own problems. Yet, I have had trouble with my parents for the wrongs they never admitted to. It still affects me. I wish with all my heart that they would understand what they put us through and not cry about their vicitmization. In the end they were the adults, we were the vulnerable kids that they were meant to protect.

posted April 20, 2012 02:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Lonake, You're awesome!

hskahn, my heart goes out to you. Huge HUGS!

---

big hugs back

posted April 20, 2012 08:37 PM            

I think what you've hands on your hands for a while, is the issue of the Moon/Venus/Neptune tsquare. You have both of your feminine significators connected to Neptune, but then you have your ASC Gemini ruler as Mercury in Virgo. It sounds like you're trying to understand this dynamic, but from the perspective of the head and not the heart. I really feel for you on this one. I know the anxiety that can plague a strong Virgo influence like that. And added to it now are the other bodies that have solar arc'd or progressed to that sign.

Why I brought up t.Neptune in the last post (when you were looking for more info on the t.cardinals) is because it was sounding like you were trapped in a role of martyr perhaps. And with the Neptune in your 5th, wanting for your son to save you, I do get that you had and have a lot of your well being wrapped up in him from the get-go. But I would add that the 5th rules other matters than romances & kids, you have a wealth of creative energy there, waiting to be utilized. And I ask, is it possible to transfer some of those dreams re:the son and an ideal relationship, to other ventures. You mentioned ballet, and all the ways that it fits with h5/Libra symbolism, and I agree, but can you think of others? Libra symbolizes also 2 people, maybe someone you can partner with to make art, or to take partner dancing lessons, the kind where you are paired off. I really think the energy that you want your son to give back to you, is something that is within yourself already, waiting to be re-awakened. I think if you open up a new network in that way, that you won't have so much pressure/so many things weighing on the interaction with your son, if you can sort of farm out all that energy you have to other people, other interests then that would really help to tone down this tense interaction.

Also, this is something that you will be dealing with for a few yrs, that t.Neptune. And it is in Pisces at the top of your chart. I am really glad that you are open to taking on the role of the healer for yourself and here is why, the Virgo/Pisces axis is that of the healer (in whatever form they choose) but that axis heals wounds. Your t-square, what is being filtered into the 5th, has the Neptune that you've been struggling with. To unlock the Neptune/Pisces energy in any way for you will be a positive thing. You sound like you're very much on the Virgo end with the self-criticism. You have to know, that as strongly recriminating as you are to yourself, that there is a whole other side to the coin, Pisces, which is there with the same amount of energy, waiting for you to open up to it. The challenge from t.Neptune is one sign of that. Another is sa.ASC coming up to n.Pluto. An aspect of transformation. You really have the tools that you need right now, everything that you need to take the next step. But the question remains, can you get past that mental block? Neptune energy says to take a leap of faith, show compassion to yourself, and feel your way around this new place.

^ That's what I've been mulling over re:Neptune which I do think is the core issue for now.
One thing that could get in the way of opening to this is the Saturn in Leo conj the Sun. Something about that one says to me that there might be a feeling that you don't deserve to feel that Leo joy/enthusiasm that emanates just from being alive. Pisces & Leo have a few things in common, they're insanely romantic and incredibly creative. If you don't want to put out any slapdash piece of art, that is fine, but I think you would be helped by giving yourself permission to get your hands dirty, to muse, to be playful. If you want to get a timer and do it for 5 minutes that's cool too, to just see how it feels. You do get some of that from working with children, which befits a Saturn in Leo, but can you take on their energy as your own?

Back to tsquare specifics,
I like to say that when there is a tsq, that the energy of the missing leg needs to be incorporated. Grand cross is better than a tsq, believe me. And if you're not born with it, it can still be yours for the taking, by conscious action. So your missing leg is definitely in Capricorn, and I would mark it at around 10 degrees. It falls in the 8th. Now you just combine Cap w.H8 and we are now cognizant of the energy to incorporate. And yours is really interesting regarding your situation. Cap/H8 takes intimacy in a deadly serious manner, there is no fluff here, no flings. There is a fear to get close, but with a *discerning* eye, the capacity to enter into a deep relationship with another is there. There is sincerity and responsibility attached to every intimate encounter with another, but that intimacy is more than just sex, it is when you leave yourself emotionally bare and naked in your pain thereby allowing the other person to do the same. No anger, no recrimination, just intimacy. Just being happy to be able to share your honest experience with another and for them to be able to do the same after the fear of being vulnerable subsides. That is the bond, that is the H8 goal. Go back to your n.Neptune/Moon/Venus with not many limits or standards in place. Capricorn in the 8th is part of the answer.

posted April 20, 2012 11:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Linda Jones, hskahn

I think what you've hands on your hands for a while, is the issue of the Moon/Venus/Neptune tsquare. You have both of your feminine significators connected to Neptune, but then you have your ASC Gemini ruler as Mercury in Virgo. It sounds like you're trying to understand this dynamic, but from the perspective of the head and not the heart. I really feel for you on this one. I know the anxiety that can plague a strong Virgo influence like that. And added to it now are the other bodies that have solar arc'd or progressed to that sign.

Why I brought up t.Neptune in the last post (when you were looking for more info on the t.cardinals) is because it was sounding like you were trapped in a role of martyr perhaps. And with the Neptune in your 5th, wanting for your son to save you, I do get that you had and have a lot of your well being wrapped up in him from the get-go. But I would add that the 5th rules other matters than romances & kids, you have a wealth of creative energy there, waiting to be utilized. And I ask, is it possible to transfer some of those dreams re:the son and an ideal relationship, to other ventures. You mentioned ballet, and all the ways that it fits with h5/Libra symbolism, and I agree, but can you think of others? Libra symbolizes also 2 people, maybe someone you can partner with to make art, or to take partner dancing lessons, the kind where you are paired off. I really think the energy that you want your son to give back to you, is something that is within yourself already, waiting to be re-awakened. I think if you open up a new network in that way, that you won't have so much pressure/so many things weighing on the interaction with your son, if you can sort of farm out all that energy you have to other people, other interests then that would really help to tone down this tense interaction.

Also, this is something that you will be dealing with for a few yrs, that t.Neptune. And it is in Pisces at the top of your chart. I am really glad that you are open to taking on the role of the healer for yourself and here is why, the Virgo/Pisces axis is that of the healer (in whatever form they choose) but that axis heals wounds. Your t-square, what is being filtered into the 5th, has the Neptune that you've been struggling with. To unlock the Neptune/Pisces energy in any way for you will be a positive thing. You sound like you're very much on the Virgo end with the self-criticism. You have to know, that as strongly recriminating as you are to yourself, that there is a whole other side to the coin, Pisces, which is there with the same amount of energy, waiting for you to open up to it. The challenge from t.Neptune is one sign of that. Another is sa.ASC coming up to n.Pluto. An aspect of transformation. You really have the tools that you need right now, everything that you need to take the next step. But the question remains, can you get past that mental block? Neptune energy says to take a leap of faith, show compassion to yourself, and feel your way around this new place.

^ That's what I've been mulling over re:Neptune which I do think is the core issue for now.
One thing that could get in the way of opening to this is the Saturn in Leo conj the Sun. Something about that one says to me that there might be a feeling that you don't deserve to feel that Leo joy/enthusiasm that emanates just from being alive. Pisces & Leo have a few things in common, they're insanely romantic and incredibly creative. If you don't want to put out any slapdash piece of art, that is fine, but I think you would be helped by giving yourself permission to get your hands dirty, to muse, to be playful. If you want to get a timer and do it for 5 minutes that's cool too, to just see how it feels. You do get some of that from working with children, which befits a Saturn in Leo, but can you take on their energy as your own?

Back to tsquare specifics,
I like to say that when there is a tsq, that the energy of the missing leg needs to be incorporated. Grand cross is better than a tsq, believe me. And if you're not born with it, it can still be yours for the taking, by conscious action. So your missing leg is definitely in Capricorn, and I would mark it at around 10 degrees. It falls in the 8th. Now you just combine Cap w.H8 and we are now cognizant of the energy to incorporate. And yours is really interesting regarding your situation. Cap/H8 takes intimacy in a deadly serious manner, there is no fluff here, no flings. There is a fear to get close, but with a *discerning* eye, the capacity to enter into a deep relationship with another is there. There is sincerity and responsibility attached to every intimate encounter with another, but that intimacy is more than just sex, it is when you leave yourself emotionally bare and naked in your pain thereby allowing the other person to do the same. No anger, no recrimination, just intimacy. Just being happy to be able to share your honest experience with another and for them to be able to do the same after the fear of being vulnerable subsides. That is the bond, that is the H8 goal. Go back to your n.Neptune/Moon/Venus with not many limits or standards in place. Capricorn in the 8th is part of the answer.

^ This last bit I'd encourage you to think about for a while because I'm v.interested in your thoughts on the matter. Incidentally t.Pluto is conj this point and it's influence here can be a guide for the future after it passes.

---

Linda Jones, hskahn
I think what you've hands on your hands for a while, is the issue of the Moon/Venus/Neptune tsquare. You have both of your feminine significators connected to Neptune, but then you have your ASC Gemini ruler as Mercury in Virgo. It sounds like you're trying to understand this dynamic, but from the perspective of the head and not the heart. I really feel for you on this one. I know the anxiety that can plague a strong Virgo influence like that. And added to it now are the other bodies that have solar arc'd or progressed to that sign.

Why I brought up t.Neptune in the last post (when you were looking for more info on the t.cardinals) is because it was sounding like you were trapped in a role of martyr perhaps. And with the Neptune in your 5th, wanting for your son to save you, I do get that you had and have a lot of your well being wrapped up in him from the get-go. But I would add that the 5th rules other matters than romances & kids, you have a wealth of creative energy there, waiting to be utilized. And I ask, is it possible to transfer some of those dreams re:the son and an ideal relationship, to other ventures. You mentioned ballet, and all the ways that it fits with h5/Libra symbolism, and I agree, but can you think of others? Libra symbolizes also 2 people, maybe someone you can partner with to make art, or to take partner dancing lessons, the kind where you are paired off. I really think the energy that you want your son to give back to you, is something that is within yourself already, waiting to be re-awakened. I think if you open up a new network in that way, that you won't have so much pressure/so many things weighing on the interaction with your son, if you can sort of farm out all that energy you have to other people, other interests then that would really help to tone down this tense interaction.

Also, this is something that you will be dealing with for a few yrs, that t.Neptune. And it is in Pisces at the top of your chart. I am really glad that you are open to taking on the role of the healer for yourself and here is why, the Virgo/Pisces axis is that of the healer (in whatever form they choose) but that axis heals wounds. Your t-square, what is being filtered into the 5th, has the Neptune that you've been struggling with. To unlock the Neptune/Pisces energy in any way for you will be a positive thing. You sound like you're very much on the Virgo end with the self-criticism. You have to know, that as strongly recriminating as you are to yourself, that there is a whole other side to the coin, Pisces, which is there with the same amount of energy, waiting for you to open up to it. The challenge from t.Neptune is one sign of that. Another is sa.ASC coming up to n.Pluto. An aspect of transformation. You really have the tools that you need right now, everything that you need to take the next step. But the question remains, can you get past that mental block? Neptune energy says to take a leap of faith, show compassion to yourself, and feel your way around this new place.

^ That's what I've been mulling over re:Neptune which I do think is the core issue for now.
One thing that could get in the way of opening to this is the Saturn in Leo conj the Sun. Something about that one says to me that there might be a feeling that you don't deserve to feel that Leo joy/enthusiasm that emanates just from being alive. Pisces & Leo have a few things in common, they're insanely romantic and incredibly creative. If you don't want to put out any slapdash piece of art, that is fine, but I think you would be helped by giving yourself permission to get your hands dirty, to muse, to be playful. If you want to get a timer and do it for 5 minutes that's cool too, to just see how it feels. You do get some of that from working with children, which befits a Saturn in Leo, but can you take on their energy as your own?

Back to tsquare specifics,
I like to say that when there is a tsq, that the energy of the missing leg needs to be incorporated. Grand cross is better than a tsq, believe me. And if you're not born with it, it can still be yours for the taking, by conscious action. So your missing leg is definitely in Capricorn, and I would mark it at around 10 degrees. It falls in the 8th. Now you just combine Cap w.H8 and we are now cognizant of the energy to incorporate. And yours is really interesting regarding your situation. Cap/H8 takes intimacy in a deadly serious manner, there is no fluff here, no flings. There is a fear to get close, but with a *discerning* eye, the capacity to enter into a deep relationship with another is there. There is sincerity and responsibility attached to every intimate encounter with another, but that intimacy is more than just sex, it is when you leave yourself emotionally bare and naked in your pain thereby allowing the other person to do the same. No anger, no recrimination, just intimacy. Just being happy to be able to share your honest experience with another and for them to be able to do the same after the fear of being vulnerable subsides. That is the bond, that is the H8 goal. Go back to your n.Neptune/Moon/Venus with not many limits or standards in place. Capricorn in the 8th is part of the answer.

^ This last bit I'd encourage you to think about for a while because I'm v.interested in your thoughts on the matter. Incidentally t.Pluto is conj this point and it's influence here can be a guide for the future after it passes.

IP: Logged

Linda Jones, hskahn
I think what you've hands on your hands for a while, is the issue of the Moon/Venus/Neptune tsquare. You have both of your feminine significators connected to Neptune, but then you have your ASC Gemini ruler as Mercury in Virgo. It sounds like you're trying to understand this dynamic, but from the perspective of the head and not the heart. I really feel for you on this one. I know the anxiety that can plague a strong Virgo influence like that. And added to it now are the other bodies that have solar arc'd or progressed to that sign.

Why I brought up t.Neptune in the last post (when you were looking for more info on the t.cardinals) is because it was sounding like you were trapped in a role of martyr perhaps. And with the Neptune in your 5th, wanting for your son to save you, I do get that you had and have a lot of your well being wrapped up in him from the get-go. But I would add that the 5th rules other matters than romances & kids, you have a wealth of creative energy there, waiting to be utilized. And I ask, is it possible to transfer some of those dreams re:the son and an ideal relationship, to other ventures. You mentioned ballet, and all the ways that it fits with h5/Libra symbolism, and I agree, but can you think of others? Libra symbolizes also 2 people, maybe someone you can partner with to make art, or to take partner dancing lessons, the kind where you are paired off. I really think the energy that you want your son to give back to you, is something that is within yourself already, waiting to be re-awakened. I think if you open up a new network in that way, that you won't have so much pressure/so many things weighing on the interaction with your son, if you can sort of farm out all that energy you have to other people, other interests then that would really help to tone down this tense interaction.

Also, this is something that you will be dealing with for a few yrs, that t.Neptune. And it is in Pisces at the top of your chart. I am really glad that you are open to taking on the role of the healer for yourself and here is why, the Virgo/Pisces axis is that of the healer (in whatever form they choose) but that axis heals wounds. Your t-square, what is being filtered into the 5th, has the Neptune that you've been struggling with. To unlock the Neptune/Pisces energy in any way for you will be a positive thing. You sound like you're very much on the Virgo end with the self-criticism. You have to know, that as strongly recriminating as you are to yourself, that there is a whole other side to the coin, Pisces, which is there with the same amount of energy, waiting for you to open up to it. The challenge from t.Neptune is one sign of that. Another is sa.ASC coming up to n.Pluto. An aspect of transformation. You really have the tools that you need right now, everything that you need to take the next step. But the question remains, can you get past that mental block? Neptune energy says to take a leap of faith, show compassion to yourself, and feel your way around this new place.

^ That's what I've been mulling over re:Neptune which I do think is the core issue for now.
One thing that could get in the way of opening to this is the Saturn in Leo conj the Sun. Something about that one says to me that there might be a feeling that you don't deserve to feel that Leo joy/enthusiasm that emanates just from being alive. Pisces & Leo have a few things in common, they're insanely romantic and incredibly creative. If you don't want to put out any slapdash piece of art, that is fine, but I think you would be helped by giving yourself permission to get your hands dirty, to muse, to be playful. If you want to get a timer and do it for 5 minutes that's cool too, to just see how it feels. You do get some of that from working with children, which befits a Saturn in Leo, but can you take on their energy as your own?

Back to tsquare specifics,
I like to say that when there is a tsq, that the energy of the missing leg needs to be incorporated. Grand cross is better than a tsq, believe me. And if you're not born with it, it can still be yours for the taking, by conscious action. So your missing leg is definitely in Capricorn, and I would mark it at around 10 degrees. It falls in the 8th. Now you just combine Cap w.H8 and we are now cognizant of the energy to incorporate. And yours is really interesting regarding your situation. Cap/H8 takes intimacy in a deadly serious manner, there is no fluff here, no flings. There is a fear to get close, but with a *discerning* eye, the capacity to enter into a deep relationship with another is there. There is sincerity and responsibility attached to every intimate encounter with another, but that intimacy is more than just sex, it is when you leave yourself emotionally bare and naked in your pain thereby allowing the other person to do the same. No anger, no recrimination, just intimacy. Just being happy to be able to share your honest experience with another and for them to be able to do the same after the fear of being vulnerable subsides. That is the bond, that is the H8 goal. Go back to your n.Neptune/Moon/Venus with not many limits or standards in place. Capricorn in the 8th is part of the answer.

^ This last bit I'd encourage you to think about for a while because I'm v.interested in your thoughts on the matter. Incidentally t.Pluto is conj this point and it's influence here can be a guide for the future after it passes.

IP: Logged

posted April 22, 2012 02:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lonake:
Yeah I lose what I write too sometimes. Glad to help
I would expect more changes to your relationship throughout the summer.

---

my son, after all this time and all these years, told me yesterday that he didn't have any bad memories of me during his childhood. it could mean he doesn't remember me but i was there sometimes very much in the background. this i know. i don't have many memories either but i was afraid i did bad things i didn't remember. i feel like i was on a cross died for my sins--known or unknown to me--and so i start again. i think we have forgiven each other now. it is interesting that he chose this way to do it. i feel like i've met him for the first time. i feel like i've met myself again. it will take some time to make a fresh start don't think as parent and child we ever fell in love

what you say about ballet is on time bec a ballerina i know is forming a group and she invited me to be part of it. it have been v inconsistent in my life bec of my depression. but what you say makes me think i should try to be part of this. that this can be me as my healer.

i think the neptune at the top of my chart has to do with the man i have been with for 7 years for whom i left a 25 year dead marriage with a man i love very much and am still in close contact and we've never divorced but it is over. i have traveled with my neptune man to italy numerous times when neptune was crossing midheaven into the 10th house. he is now 85 (10th house) and is a black and white photographer v well-known in his field and a san francisco icon. he has been a real healer to me, he is my angel. he is can poor with about a million fine negatives that he doesn't want commercialized and pluto in the 8th i think is about the fact that he is going to leave me in charge of his estate (if he thinks i can handle it). It is like ansel adams has been commercialized but some great artist have not been and they are standards of an artistic stream. how i will build a foundation so that his work is not lost is unknown to me now. i have noticed that natal and progressed pluto will conduct my progressed ascendant i i think this is a likely time for their to be some transformation with respect to both my husband and my love.

i think that the grand square that is forming now is a period for possible integration is i can keep my head on straight and make mature and selfless decisions.

I have also applied for a regular job in the school district in which i've been subbing for 5 years now. it is a part-time, short-term position but it would be an start in a more solid direction. i have taken under my wing a child i met in a pre-k classroom a year ago. i saw that she has everything is takes to be a ballet dancer. her mother is single, is chinese immigrant from indonesia-- her father left at the beginning of the pregnancy--i take her to ballet and pay for it and a friend of mine will help pay for her next year if her mother doesn't send her to australia to live with her aunt while she finishes school in the states as it is very hard for her. so i help as no one helped me and i am good to the children i teach in school. so it is a healing circle and i hope i can help heal my son too. he has a strong wife and children he works hard to support and they are very good to the children who thrive happily but i think he will be happier if i can join their circle.

so this is where it is. thanks for taking me to heart and i look forward to your feedback because i know there is more to learn from you about my chart, my Self. my religious path has been Zen Buddhism though i was born jewish and most recently was baptized as a catholic. i feel close to it all but don't really practice anything.

love