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Author Topic:   Please Help: Sun contra-parallel Saturn vs. Saturn in the 5th House
ScatterShock
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Registered: May 2012

posted May 30, 2012 08:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScatterShock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW: Also posted on "Astrology for Beginners".

Hi!
I'd been looking at my chart some more since talking about my Saturn in this thread ( http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/213764.html ) and remembered to look at the declinations of my planets. I found that I have Sun (17' 20" N) contra-parallel Saturn (18' 53" S) with a 1.33 orb. Since this is like an opposition, I looked up Sun opposite Saturn and found out that the descriptions of this aspect apply to me too well! What I find troublesome is that these traits, on the whole, seem to also apply to Saturn in the Fifth- which was why I was so certain that I had that house placement (and therefore Virgo or Libra rising).
But with this development, I don't know how to differentiate the two: do I have Sun contra-parallel Saturn (and therefore, no longer any claim to Libra rising?) or Saturn in Fifth?

Maybe a better phrasing of my question might be: Where does the overlap between these elements of the chart end? I mean, I've never been in a relationship so I can't really discount Saturn in 5th on those grounds, but what other evidence can I use to prove or disprove either one?

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ScatterShock
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posted May 31, 2012 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScatterShock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...bump...

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ariesdragon
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From: Jupiter
Registered: Jan 2012

posted May 31, 2012 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ariesdragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey SS if I knew I'd totally help you
Hopefully someone knows...

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ScatterShock
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posted May 31, 2012 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScatterShock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you.

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VenusDiSirius
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Posts: 3199
From: Saturn-free H12 ;)
Registered: Aug 2010

posted May 31, 2012 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Orbs for declinations is 1 degree! And in order to feel parallels you would require Sun/Saturn action in the natal,via aspects. Natural ruler of H5 is Sun,and therefore Sun/Saturn aspect can be similar to Saturn in H5 interpretions.

Now,onto H5 Saturn - yes,one can't subscribe a specific situation or personality feature to one planet,aspect only(cause they are interconnected*),but you can observe it as a trigger,underlying cause,pre-cause,etc. But,from my experience,and I don't bother myself with idling notions that every person is complex,you can break down chart to one theme,which in turn can correspond to one planet's influence : position,aspect.
I know couple of H5 Saturns that indeed have difficulties in romance,while having chart that promises more : good H1/7/5 rulers (in easy aspects),nice Moon/Venus or Venus/Mars aspects; the Saturn vs H5 is so prominent because of their natures that clash,Saturn is serious and restricting while H5 deals with light-hearted,jolly and fun matters. Traditionally,Saturn is in its fall in the H5 so that would also make lessons required by Saturn's demand much more harder. The thing with Saturn is that you have to be a pupil,sit down and mug things up. And having to learn how to have fun is contradictive,right? And not to mention silly,cuz Saturn doesn't really chill but,to learn how to romance as well,I mean,one can learn pick up lines,but romance is more than that,and I can see somebody with this placement to hinder themselves (a saturn side-effect) which results in having so little experience (and Saturn needs this,needs to have well threaded ground) and therefore confidence (which is required if you want a romance life). So,it is a vicious circle up to the point where Saturn can step up,and that can take some time,and this is the hardest part of this placement,having to wait so long,lagging behind your peers,etc. Once a friend told me (with this placement) that she feels she had never been young,not really. She is a cute stellium Gemini,Leo Rising,and yet she has always felt that Saturn. But,she did warmed up a bit,and not too late,mind you,she is almost 24, but she had to stop limiting herself and take a plunge. Saturn is in the constant need of experiences but as an observer,not a participant (!!) Just like a student she came to the point where she had to stop reading about histories that happened to other people and step outside. That's the time when Saturn's lesson are ripe and beneficial - when you start dealing with the problem. Many just say -oh,I can't do,it is just too hard- and continue to stagnate. So,feeling akward at a party?? Make sure you visit every bloody one

*except when you have,for example,H5 unaspected Leo Sun,it would be almost impossible to connect this to the rest of the chart

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ScatterShock
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posted May 31, 2012 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ScatterShock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for answering, VenusDiSirius.

The thing is, I have read few forum posts here and on AstroWeekly that discuss different viewpoints on the way that Parallels and Contraparallels work and it kind of struck me how very exact the orbs have to be (compared to the amount of leeway aspects in the longitudinal chart get). Like you said, most people stick to the <1 degree orb- while I've seen up to 1.5 as acceptable as well, but I find it extremely difficult to ignore the connection I made when it fits so well. Also, I didn't think that declinations had to match up to something in the main chart. It makes it seem like they're supposed to be much weaker than longitudinal aspects.

As far as Sun opp. Saturn goes, I am hard on myself, I prefer not to 'get loose' (unless I am among family), I don't stick to new things if I can't get them right away- though I'm trying to deal with it. From what I've read, it's like my Saturn sits on my Sun. And I am enough of a novice that maybe I don't yet have a more nuanced understanding of how these (or any of the other, really) planets work together, but when I read something as relevant as say, CafeAstrology's, description of Sun opp. Saturn I can't let that go.


quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
I know couple of H5 Saturns that indeed have difficulties in romance,while having chart that promises more : good H1/7/5 rulers (in easy aspects),nice Moon/Venus or Venus/Mars aspects; the Saturn vs H5 is so prominent because of their natures that clash,Saturn is serious and restricting while H5 deals with light-hearted,jolly and fun matters. Traditionally,Saturn is in its fall in the H5 so that would also make lessons required by Saturn's demand much more harder. The thing with Saturn is that you have to be a pupil,sit down and mug things up. And having to learn how to have fun is contradictive,right? And not to mention silly,cuz Saturn doesn't really chill but,to learn how to romance as well,I mean,one can learn pick up lines,but romance is more than that,and I can see somebody with this placement to hinder themselves (a saturn side-effect) which results in having so little experience (and Saturn needs this,needs to have well threaded ground) and therefore confidence (which is required if you want a romance life). So,it is a vicious circle up to the point where Saturn can step up,and that can take some time,and this is the hardest part of this placement,having to wait so long,lagging behind your peers,etc. Once a friend told me (with this placement) that she feels she had never been young,not really. She is a cute stellium Gemini,Leo Rising,and yet she has always felt that Saturn. But,she did warmed up a bit,and not too late,mind you,she is almost 24, but she had to stop limiting herself and take a plunge.

Yea, I would have thought that I was pretty good at having fun, but I guess not really since I don't actually like to join in with stuff unless I've watched and listened and quarreled with myself over it first. The only time I'm not like that is when I'm with family. Then, I just don't hesitate quite as long!
Um, while I have felt like 'everyone I know' is ahead me of socially, I have also certainly felt like I was/still am a kid (likely because of my Capricorn NN! ).

quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius
Saturn is in the constant need of experiences but as an observer,not a participant (!!) Just like a student she came to the point where she had to stop reading about histories that happened to other people and step outside. That's the time when Saturn's lesson are ripe and beneficial - when you start dealing with the problem. Many just say -oh,I can't do,it is just too hard- and continue to stagnate. So,feeling akward at a party?? Make sure you visit every bloody one

This is super relevant to me. Yea, I prefer to stand back for the most part, and usually by the time I feel comfortable participating, the time has passed! Ugh, stepping outside! I am still at the 'stagnant' part. Social life isn't something I've been very good at.
Hmm, you've given me stuff to think about. I suppose that things would be much clearer if I already knew what my rising sign is, though.
Thank you again.

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