posted May 21, 2012 04:59 PM            

I'm pretty intent on trying to 'reverse-engineer' my Ascendant sign (because I know that there's no way that I can get anything more precise without a rectification), and in my efforts, I focused on planets I feel more than the others: I kind of feel as if my life is run by my Saturn singleton. And while my Mercurial energy has become apparent to me in terms of my un-comfortability in communication, I have made more headway with figuring out my Saturn's place in my chart.

What really jumps out at me, especially after an intense conversation on the subject, was how I don't really have fun, particularly in the Fifth house sense. I have a lot of free time, and as such, I assumed that the things I did with that free time counted as my form of fun... none of it is really self-expression, though, except for my extensive journaling-- which is often the only way I can organize my thoughts. I love music, but I don't often share that, or much of myself at all, with others all that well. I read the thread http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/008613.html that listed a bunch of descriptions of Saturn in 5th, and it, along with the writings that I've found, was sadly accurate. I couldn't believe that there was an astrological connection to my life-long refusal to indulge in creative pursuits because I was convinced that I was no good at any of it. I mean, only in the last three years or so have I felt enough of a need to sing and dance that I do so, even if only when I'm alone. In fact, the only time I feel like I am channeling my 5th/Leo energy is when I am at the arcade, which I rarely ever get to go to.

Funnily enough, I find this much easier to do than to attempt to place my more personal planets. I don't even know what to do with my Venus, since I barely know how I express it.

The point of all this, I guess, is: if I really, unshakably feel my Saturn is in the Fifth House, could anyone help me test having Virgo Rising? Please feel free to ask me more about how I came to this conclusions- I'll do my best to answer.

Btw, my Mom's account is that I was born in the afternoon, which is where I got the idea of Virgo Asc in the first place.

My chart with Virgo Rising and Saturn in 5th (though I know--even then--that there is a ton of variation):

Edit: I think there is a glitch with this pic.

posted May 21, 2012 11:48 PM            

Pluto's declination was 2S23 the day you were born. An early Libra Asc in the range of +/- 5 Libra would make a parallel to Pluto.

*Actually I would consider Cancer as well.

posted May 22, 2012 06:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Based on your picture here, I can pretty much guarantee that your correct Asc sign is not Virgo, but Libra. Saturn could still be in the 5th. However, it may be that Pluto is the x-factor here, since it can be parallel an early Libra Asc.

Pluto's declination was 2S23 the day you were born. An early Libra Asc in the range of +/- 5 Libra would make a parallel to Pluto.

*Actually I would consider Cancer as well.

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0 degree Cancer rising would put her Venus in the first house, causing a feel of both Cancer and Libra for an ASC.

Although if the mom is correct, a Cancer rising wouldn't be plausible.

With an early Libra it would keep your Saturn in the 5th, maybe.

What do you find more attractive in a perspective significant other? - Career status or philosophies of life?

posted May 22, 2012 10:20 AM            

Kannon, I had actually considered Libra as my rising, but figured that, since Saturn would be on the line of the 5th house rather than well into it, it might not fit as well. I'm glad to know that I seem Libra- I was never really able to tell what features of mine corresponded to which Ascendant Sign.
That's interesting about Pluto. I will look up Pluto conj. Asc. (The parallel acts like a softer version of the conjunction, right? I have to keep in mind that descriptions of Pluto conj. Asc won't be perfectly relatable in such a case, right?)

Sashar, I haven't really thought about whether I cared more about career status or philosophy of life in a partner before, but as I was thinking the question over, I kept coming back to the importance of what people think. I can't imagine caring more about my SO's status than what they believe in, the more I think about it. Thanks for posing the question. If you have any others, feel free to ask.

I don't know about Cancer rising, though... I'll put up another picture:

posted May 22, 2012 08:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScatterShock:
Sashar, I haven't really thought about whether I cared more about career status or philosophy of life in a partner before, but as I was thinking the question over, I kept coming back to the importance of what people think. I can't imagine caring more about my SO's status than what they believe in, the more I think about it. Thanks for posing the question. If you have any others, feel free to ask.

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The reason why I ask is because if the choice is between Virgo and Libra, that unaspected Venus is going to be a good "tell" as to which one it is. With Virgo, the Venus is sitting in the 10th house. With Libra, Venus should be in the 9th house.

It may be asking a little much (and may not help), but do you have a synastry chart with you and someone you care about (placing yourself at any birth time you want but with their correct time of birth). If so, could you post it and talk a little about the person?

posted May 22, 2012 09:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScatterShock:
Thank you Kannon and Sashar!

Kannon, I had actually considered Libra as my rising, but figured that, since Saturn would be on the line of the 5th house rather than well into it, it might not fit as well. I'm glad to know that I seem Libra- I was never really able to tell what features of mine corresponded to which Ascendant Sign.
That's interesting about Pluto. I will look up Pluto conj. Asc. (The parallel acts like a softer version of the conjunction, right? I have to keep in mind that descriptions of Pluto conj. Asc won't be perfectly relatable in such a case, right?)

Sashar, I haven't really thought about whether I cared more about career status or philosophy of life in a partner before, but as I was thinking the question over, I kept coming back to the importance of what people think. I can't imagine caring more about my SO's status than what they believe in, the more I think about it. Thanks for posing the question. If you have any others, feel free to ask.

I don't know about Cancer rising, though... I'll put up another picture:

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Parallels are just as strong as conjunctions. They are conjunctions of declination.

posted May 23, 2012 01:05 PM            

Kannon, thank you for clarifying by pointing out my forehead... I will comment on the description you've pointed to:

"LIBRA rising produces a rounded, ovate head that is normally smallish unless altered by planets. Even the chin tends to be rounded and with a dimple or cleft."--

"The energy is initiating and persuasive" (I'm don't really initiate or attempt to persuade unless I am working or interacting with someone even more reserved than me.)
"people smart and people-pleasing," (I wish this were true, but I don't really think so. Basically, I am not all that sure about my people skills at all.)
"aesthetic and tactile" (Um, if I understand this correctly: yes I have an eye for the beauty in things whether I use it or not, and yes, I prefer to feel things than just take them in with my eyes.)
"more cerebral than its fiery counterpart, Aries."--

"The voice can be especially soft or smooth (unless fire factors significantly energize things)."(I was told that I have a pretty voice...)
"The eyes and mouth are generally well-shaped and attractive, even if they are not models or beauty queens. The eyes are generally light, and in Caucasians can be of mixed color (blue-green). The skin is normally smooth, soft and complexion good." --

"One characteristic that can often determine a genuine Libra rising is a swayback. It is as if they are holding back their vulnerabilities and it becomes a permanent posture." (Huh. I don't know if I have a swayed back.)
"They have good taste and want to enjoy the good life. These people are lovers and people-oriented, initiating friendships easily." (Um, I am really reserved and shy. Also, I tend to force down my interests in the 'good life'...)
"Their charm and easy-going approach to people makes and impression." (... I don't know if this relates to me...)
"However, many are either indecisive or changeable, or love to argue for kicks." (I am definitely indecisive. ...And I may be a contrary sort at times, even if I don't like to argue with people.)
"The women especially will adorn themselves and know how to increase their attractiveness with bangles, jewelry and clothing." ( That's kind of funny. Accessories are pretty optional for me.)
"They can be people-pleasers, indulgent, procrastinating." (I definitely procrastinate... )
"They lead by persuasion." (Is that really leading? But yea, I prefer not to stand out in the front of the pack.)
"The men (and some women) often have a knack for mechanical things, machines, computers, etc." (I never really thought about the why, but I like tech and mechanical stuff, even though I actually don't do much tinkering or the like...)

In all, I don't really see myself in much of the personality description here. Just to check, I also looked at the Cancer Rising description. I was surprised to find that it fit me really well, personality-wise. However, in order for my chart to have Cancer Rising (zero degree so that Venus is in 1st house), I would have Pluto in 5th and Saturn in 8th. I looked up some work on what these planets' energies are like in those houses and they really didn't match me very well.

posted May 24, 2012 10:03 AM            

Yes, Venus in Cancer can change things a bit for a Libra rising person. However, this is my wife's Asc/ruler combination and she is clearly a Libra rising which I was able to discern the first time meeting her in person. This in spite of the fact that her (altered) birth certificate gives a time that suggests her Asc should be in Scorpio.

Don't take data on documents literally - or especially 'from memory' statements. These are notoriously unreliable for accuracy. Use these times as a starting place.

My rectification work has shown hospital documents to disagree with relatives who witnessed the birth by HOURS regarding birth time. This doesn't mean that this always happens, but that the documents and fuzzy memories should not be taken literally. Use it as a starting place.

I do one pro bono consult/rectification per month. I invite you to sign up for my June slot as it is still available.