posted June 09, 2012 12:04 AM            

i never really understood what this meant when i was younger, but as i get older, i feel like i'm sort of understanding what it means to be Plutonian. i always feel out of place all the time or misunderstood.

i have my Sun, Moon, Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio. i feel that my Taurus ascendant sort of masks this energy and i can get along with people on a superficial level, but now and again, people have told me that i intimidate them for reasons that i can't understand. this leaves me terribly lonely and frustrated as i can sort of see through people. i find things about their personality or character that i cannot just ignore.

posted June 09, 2012 12:38 AM            

sometimes i just want to sit in a dark room and dwell in the darkness.

i have a hardshell, but most people aren't deep enough to detect that i have kindness lurkign right underneath & a lot to offer, i'm alternative as they come.

where is your LILITH placed? it gives cludes as to how you can channel plutonian energy

posted June 09, 2012 12:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by seaofjoy:
like a huge dark abyssinal spiral? yup, welcome to my life. I have sun & moon forming a water grand trine w pluto in scorpio, not to mention both my mars & Venus unaspected (aka pure 8th house energy)

sometimes i just want to sit in a dark room and dwell in the darkness.

i have a hardshell, but most people aren't deep enough to detect that i have kindness lurkign right underneath & a lot to offer, i'm alternative as they come.

where is your LILITH placed? it gives cludes as to how you can channel plutonian energy

also have you met any little pisces before they help w the understanding

---

i get what you mean about the whole "people aren't deep enough to detect your kindness". i feel that i usually understand things differently than others. like kindness, for example. to me, being kind doesn't just mean doing a nice thing for someone. it is doing it because you have no obligation to make their lives easier. maybe my perceptions are just skewed.

i just checked, my lilith is in capricorn in the 9th house. i'm interpreting this as constantly evaluating my belief system. getting rid of what isn't working for me and building what does.

come to think of it, i've only met unevolved Pisces Suns. they frustrate me and spend too much time pitying themselves which brought me down.

posted June 09, 2012 12:57 AM            

I feel it isn't a total curse to be Plutonian. I feel being this way gives you laser sharp insights, something deeper and darker about you... that sets you apart from your peers, and makes you have potential to stand out. It can make you admired, but also lonely since some people can be very afraid, turned off or confused by a highly Plutonian person.

I've felt a lot of isolation, especially from H12 Pluto and also, all my Scorpio planets falling in the 11th. The latter has literally made people have a tendency to fall all over me because I am good-looking and 'weirdly cool' as in, someone with eccentricities that people eat up for whatever reason, but at my core I am extremely lonely. I've had a hard time dealing with people on a daily basis and cannot work a regular job when I get older as a result. I know I've been destined for something greater, more INTENSE than most people I know... I also contribute that to Pluto touching my MC positively. I, like you, cannot deal with the superficial, surface emotions and 'easy' relationships... it makes me feel hollow and even dead inside, like my life is being wasted. Pluto makes you have that ability to see through the farce and facade. While most other girls and guys were giggling and going on dates you were the one rolling your eyes and thinking how pointless such attitudes were, maybe? But at the same time, almost wishing YOU could be that carefree, right? I'm right there with you.

So it can be quite hard to be Plutonain, but in the end you can do something magnificent, unforeseen and absolutely incredible with all that energy. Unfortunately those keywords show it's not gonna be at a 9-5 job, most likely, with a simple 'easy' life. But who says 'easy' is good? Pluto MAKES us understand easy is NOT always good, life holds so much more. If you had been that giggling, immature and narrow-minded teenager, non-Plutonian, you'd actually have a worse time in the long run. Less sure about who you are, who you are meant to be.

posted June 09, 2012 03:43 AM            

My experience has been near-constant transformation. Always reinventing; tearing down to rebuild stronger and better than before.

That 'laser-keen' insight is pretty useful, too. Most can't handle that. They're too easily intimidated because of the intensity I naturally project. It used to bother me; as I've gotten older, however, I'm more comfortable being just exactly who I am. If they matter, they don't mind, as the old adage says. Or, more truthfully, it's my true friends, my real confidantes and those who truly -get- me that pass through this 'Plutonian gauntlet'. It filtres out those who will just waste my time and, in some cases, badly hurt me.

I say worry less about the loneliness and put greater effort in embracing your nature for all it is.

posted June 09, 2012 05:25 AM            

Few people ever see my "real" personality, and I've found that when I'm being brutally honest, people misunderstand me or freak out. I appear very frivolous and light-hearted but truth is, my depth and intensity of feeling go beyond the "ordinary". I think most people are surprised/weirded out when they find out how "heavy" and "serious" I actually am. I take things very seriously especially when it comes to feelings and my personal development. I always strive for improvement but I often wallow in darkness and self-destructive patterns, and that scares people. I have dark thoughts and if I share them, even with my closest friends, they don't seem to get it. I guess my vision of things is very different from that of most people. I always look for the deeper meaning, I don't take anything at face value. I want to find out the "truth" in everything. I have a pretty mystical vision of the world and I spend a lot of time thinking about the universe and how it works and affects us. In other words, my attention is focused on things most people don't even think about.

I like it that I am this way but I admit that loneliness is practically inevitable. It's hard to find someone who is willing to dig deeper and go beyond the superficiality and trivial stuff.

posted June 09, 2012 05:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
I definitely don't come across as Plutonian and for the longest time I didn't consider myself to be a "real" one. I still have some doubts as to how "Plutonian" I really am, because I don't scare people or intimidate them, I am actually quite light & nervous especially in social settings (Gem rising).

Few people ever see my "real" personality, and I've found that when I'm being brutally honest, people misunderstand me or freak out. I appear very frivolous and light-hearted but truth is, my depth and intensity of feeling go beyond the "ordinary". I think most people are surprised/weirded out when they find out how "heavy" and "serious" I actually am. I take things very seriously especially when it comes to feelings and my personal development. I always strive for improvement but I often wallow in darkness and self-destructive patterns, and that scares people. I have dark thoughts and if I share them, even with my closest friends, they don't seem to get it. I guess my vision of things is very different from that of most people. I always look for the deeper meaning, I don't take anything at face value. I want to find out the "truth" in everything. I have a pretty mystical vision of the world and I spend a lot of time thinking about the universe and how it works and affects us. In other words, my attention is focused on things most people don't even think about.

I like it that I am this way but I admit that loneliness is practically inevitable. It's hard to find someone who is willing to dig deeper and go beyond the superficiality and trivial stuff.

Sun/Mercury/Mars/Pluto in Scorpio
Moon square Pluto
and a bunch of other stuff

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posted June 09, 2012 05:43 AM            

Either way, don't be upset hey, you sound like an awesome girl. The right people will eventually come into your life. Hey you have us !

posted June 09, 2012 05:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Regardes - I am sure you can !
You seem like quite an interesting person.
I don't see why people wouldn't want to be friends with you, it's strange.
Maybe you come across as too intense or demanding?

Either way, don't be upset hey, you sound like an awesome girl. The right people will eventually come into your life. Hey you have us !

Have you looked at your transits, by the way?
Maybe Saturn is being hard on you.

---

I really am grateful for this forum, honestly. I would probably feel a lot worse without it.

I worry constantly that people find me creepy or weird or too intense, and I worry that it's too late to change things, even if I would try to be myself and relax more (very, very hard for me). I don't know that people care or like me or would be forgiving. I just want to be on good terms with people and I wish that they would be open to working on things with me, but I feel like it's too late and they'd only find me creepy for reaching out to them.

posted June 09, 2012 06:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Okay I don't wanna derail this thread here, but I'd like to talk about this with you, if you're okay with that? Could you send me an email, my adress is in the Astrology For Beginners forum, top left, right under the title there's my username and email ad.

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posted June 09, 2012 11:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I hate how I have to constantly bury my intensity and energy. I resent it, to be honest.

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You should. It leads to nothing good.

Out of curiosity, how old are you guys? Early / mid-twenties? Just curious.

-A.

posted June 09, 2012 12:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
I definitely don't come across as Plutonian and for the longest time I didn't consider myself to be a "real" one.

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That's really, really unfortunate to me. I'm -not- saying I don't have respect for -you-, but in -general-, I find it very difficult to respect those who won't be true to themselves in the spirit of being 'accepted'. This isn't something I've adopted since my youth, though. It's been acquired with age. So, it's safe to say, I have MORE respect for those who DON'T hide who they truly are. The disappointment of learning they've been hiding their true selves in favour of being liked by the group is MUCH greater than if I just knew right off the bat that we might have some issues bonding because of our joint intensity. And even then, it's hardly the end of the universe; just takes work. My closest friends are fellow Plutonians - with some Libra, Sag, Aquarius, and, oddly enough, Capricorn.

quote:

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I still have some doubts as to how "Plutonian" I really am, because I don't scare people or intimidate them, I am actually quite light & nervous especially in social settings (Gem rising).

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Look. Just because you CAN be a walking Tim Burton film, doesn't mean you HAVE to be. (You know what I mean by that, right? Within 5 seconds, you KNOW when it's Burton. The Elfman soundtrack. The darker, classic horror, intense lighting and shadow. Something's a bit 'off'. It's a Burton film.) Don't -discount- what you -are- just because you don't OWN it yet. And with as much Scorp and Plutonian placements as you've got - how can't you be? Again, it takes some time to grow into this. To really be it. It's even a bit daunting to -ourselves-. You know?

quote:

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Few people ever see my "real" personality, and I've found that when I'm being brutally honest, people misunderstand me or freak out.

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Leave 'em. Waste of your time. Trust me on this one. It may not be immediately obvious, but they are a waste. of. time. ONLY time it's necessary to try and 'befriend' these people is if they're your coworkers or colleagues - those with whom you HAVE to have an amicable relationship. And even then, never go out of your way. Be you, do your thing, and if they dig it - congratulations. You've made a new friend. Really. If they don't? F*ck 'em. Not worth your time.

quote:

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I appear very frivolous and light-hearted but truth is, my depth and intensity of feeling go beyond the "ordinary". I think most people are surprised/weirded out when they find out how "heavy" and "serious" I actually am.

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Because you're not being upfront with them about how you really are. I can take two tacks: respond with deep, impassioned emotion, or dry, biting sarcasm. I tend to do both, the older I get. But when something is REALLY going down, and I NEED my friends - I KNOW who they are, and I can be EXACTLY how I feel with them. And, if for some reason I can't, because they naturally have some difficulty with intensity, (some do, despite our bonding; they don't accept their own intensity, and I have to respect that) I still have to throw some honesty their way regarding their handling of the situation with me. As in, they're not really respecting the depth of my feelings here, and I'll only accept that for so long until my health starts to suffer - and my mental state.

quote:

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I take things very seriously especially when it comes to feelings and my personal development. I always strive for improvement but I often wallow in darkness and self-destructive patterns, and that scares people. I have dark thoughts and if I share them, even with my closest friends, they don't seem to get it. I guess my vision of things is very different from that of most people.

---

Hey, it's cool. Back to my Burton metaphor, we're all a bit Lydia Deetz in our youth. That takes awhile to grow out of. In fact, let's keep with the Winona Ryder thing, because that woman is a wonderful evolution of being Plutonian - at least via her character choices.

Just a few years later, she did one of my all-time favourite films, 'Heathers', playing Veronica Sawyer, a character she kinda even reprised in the latest Daniel Waters' project (which was amazing, BTW) 'Sex and Death 101'. Having been thisclose to once dating a homicidal personality in high school myself, I grokked it on something of a deeper level.

In fact, if any Plutonian / nervously becoming Plutonian / reticent Plutonian has NOT seen 'Heathers' - THAT is your soul's homework assignment. Go! Rent! Now!

Veronica's evolution is kind of OUR evolution. She's smart, and deep and dark and doesn't fit in. At all. In fact, she goes to great lengths TO fit in, because the 'Heathers' - a clique of the most popular girls who, of course, run the place - have decided to make her 'one of them' in accordance with their own agenda. This causes her to disregard her TRUE friends, (because they're not popular) and become as shallow and elitist as they are. Until she meets fellow Plutonian (Uranian, too, honestly) JD, who is the absolute opposite of the Heathers, and has opted for extreme measures when it comes to 'social activism'.

This movie is cathartic. I dare any Plutonian to NOT deeply identify with Veronica from start to finish - and, oh, is the finish a big one.

quote:

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I always look for the deeper meaning, I don't take anything at face value. I want to find out the "truth" in everything.

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Stay away from Sagittarians / those with a lot of Aries, and / or Fire who'd prefer TO be taken at face value, and quickly tire of all our constant obsessing. And watch a lot of 'The X-Files'. Mulder's another Plutonian who (unlike JD) has learnt how to navigate the social strata by staying true to himself, not giving a f*ck and becoming quite the antihero because of it. (The first film, 'Fight The Future' is excellent, too. But not the second. 'I Want To Believe' is more like one big episode without much point.)

quote:

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I have a pretty mystical vision of the world and I spend a lot of time thinking about the universe and how it works and affects us. In other words, my attention is focused on things most people don't even think about.

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That's a bit more Neptune, but I get you. Something, again, you just have to accept about yourself and get that most others won't. But stick to your guns. It's not worth losing who you are and having to backtrack and find it ALL again at some later date. Man, SO much TIME is just WASTED that way. I speak from experience.

quote:

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I like it that I am this way but I admit that loneliness is practically inevitable. It's hard to find someone who is willing to dig deeper and go beyond the superficiality and trivial stuff.

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Hard, but not impossible. And I'm going to intuit that you're young. Hit your thirties, that all starts to change. By this point, we've (mostly) just come to accept who we are, and f*ck you, if you can't handle it. Up until that point, pretty much sucks, in fits and starts. In my experience, I was never able to hang on to those who really, really got me. For some reason, we were always kept at a distance. I learnt how to accept myself for who I am, and NOW am starting to really reconnect these dots and build stronger relationships with those who are similarly patterned or oriented.

The hell to get here's been worth it.

Hang in there.

-A.

EDIT: D'oh! I was thinking of you, Regardes, but responding to what you resonated with which was said by Doux. My apologies. I just figured that out. Ha!

posted June 09, 2012 12:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Regardes - I am sure you can !
You seem like quite an interesting person.
I don't see why people wouldn't want to be friends with you, it's strange.
Maybe you come across as too intense or demanding?

Either way, don't be upset hey, you sound like an awesome girl. The right people will eventually come into your life. Hey you have us !

Have you looked at your transits, by the way?
Maybe Saturn is being hard on you.

---

Yeah, Regardes - you're Libran, right? Late? Saturn's seriously raining on our parade right now, if that's the case. 23* Libra. Super fun for those of us with Pluto around there, too. -finger twirl-

-A.

posted June 09, 2012 12:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Yeah, Regardes - you're Libran, right? Late? Saturn's seriously raining on our parade right now, if that's the case. 23* Libra. Super fun for those of us with Pluto around there, too. -finger twirl-

-A.

---

I'm very Libran--sun, Mercury, South Node, MC

And to just kick me even more, my Saturn return comes up in a few years.

posted June 09, 2012 01:07 PM            

people are attracted and repelled in equal amounts, i think. so what though...haters gonna hate. toning the intensity down doesnt work, it comes out as anxiety, socially. with the few close friends i have i am brutally truthful, they seem to value this and come to me with their issues.
with partners eventually it tends to do them in as i have a bad habit of stripping them down..to the bone. breaking down a personality to expose flaws, in order that they evolve. a little much for most, perhaps lol. im beginning to understand this now...

as mentioned in a post above i also see life in a philosophical way and interpret things in the context of the universe...and its message regarding evolution as a soul and a collective.
do people think im slightly mad when i talk on that level? yes...but if we dont relate at all then we dont choose to hang out, simple. there was a long time where i refused to talk about anything trivial, ever. i despised small talk and ostracized myself because of it. it made me so uncomfortable because it felt so unnatural. but ive had to learn to accept talking crap as part of everyday social etiquette. especially at work. it doesnt matter what you say..could be complete jibberish. people just need to feel connected or accepted on some level, no matter how trivial, so that is what they do to feel at ease. pluto finds it draining i think, and would prefer silence, lol.

people often find me stand offish and intense, for sure. a loner. little do they know - one is never alone when in constant conversation with the universe

posted June 09, 2012 02:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
Seriously, Saturn, just go die. In a hole. Right now. Probably my least favorite planet. No offense to Cappies, because I like you guys, but your ruling planet gets on my nerves >

---

-laugh- I can second this. I mean, I'm all for the lessons-learnt and all that crap, but it's been REALLY dragging EVERYTHING down this past year to the point where I have to remind myself I'm actually NOT clinically depressive. Really! But, man, these days, you wouldn't know it.

I'm sorry it's been such a drag on you, too. Is Neptune pulling the rug out from under you at every turn, too? It's squaring my Mars, opposing my Venus, and affecting the Mars, Moon, Venus, or Mercury of everyone on my project, on TOP of that.

So seriously not cool. They both need to decide to just take a week off and go to the pub. They can put it on my tab. At this point, I don't care.

posted June 09, 2012 03:08 PM            

I agree with you on all points, but as you know it can be quite difficult to just *be* yourself. My ASC is in conflict with almost everything else in my chart, which makes it hard to appear as I really am. It's not even a "mask", it's just part of my personality. I can't just ignore the Gemini energy or suppress it, it has to go somewhere. I just have to find a way to balance the quincunx energies.

But I know it's quite detrimental to my self to suppress the intensity and feelings. When I try to be rational and "fit in" for too long, I get lethargic and depressed, probably because I am not being true to myself.

It's a life-long process, I guess, and it will probably take me some time to truly feel comfortable with my own energy.

And yes, luckily I am quite young, so I have some time ahead of me, hopefully!

Thanks again for your insight, very helpful.

posted June 09, 2012 03:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I'm very Libran--sun, Mercury, South Node, MC

And to just kick me even more, my Saturn return comes up in a few years.

Seriously, Saturn, just go die. In a hole. Right now. Probably my least favorite planet. No offense to Cappies, because I like you guys, but your ruling planet gets on my nerves >

---

if it's hard having Saturn, must be hard who has it in their Sun, Moon like those Caps or those who have saturn conjunct their planets.

posted June 09, 2012 04:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
IndigoD, thanks a lot for elaborating, I appreciate it.

I agree with you on all points, but as you know it can be quite difficult to just *be* yourself. My ASC is in conflict with almost everything else in my chart, which makes it hard to appear as I really am. It's not even a "mask", it's just part of my personality. I can't just ignore the Gemini energy or suppress it, it has to go somewhere. I just have to find a way to balance the quincunx energies.

But I know it's quite detrimental to my self to suppress the intensity and feelings. When I try to be rational and "fit in" for too long, I get lethargic and depressed, probably because I am not being true to myself.

It's a life-long process, I guess, and it will probably take me some time to truly feel comfortable with my own energy.

And yes, luckily I am quite young, so I have some time ahead of me, hopefully!

Thanks again for your insight, very helpful.

And I'll make sure to watch that movie Heathers.

---

Anytime, and, oh, I'm with you. I joke that I'm on the road to perfecting (Virgo) the obsessive (Scorpio) need to go to extremes (Scorpio) to achieve the balance (Libra). Fun stuff!

So, balancing those quincunx energies is tough. One of my closest and oldest friends is a Sag/Cancer. Hoo-boy, has she had fun with that!

And you're absolutely right regarding that you shouldn't be suppressing ANY energy - but letting them all work together, even if they have to alternate. In fact, it's the Gemini rising which probably helps people -not- be -immediately- overwhelmed by OMG Scorpio. Guys probably have the worst of it, honestly. My best friend, a double-Sag, actually, has Cap rising, with Saturn in Scorpio, his Sun in the Scorpio dwad. He gives off a lot of Scorp, and is always secretly worried about 'creeping people out'. Which has ALWAYS made me blink. I just don't notice or see it. Hell, when he's being 'so attentive to where it's creepy' it's probably when I feel he's ACTUALLY paying attention. You know? So, it's perspective.

Ahh, you ARE young. Okay, good. I was overly image-conscious and concerned about not fitting in with the crowd all the way up until my late twenties, at which point I realised, y'know, all of this hell is just NOT worth it. When my closest friends are the ones who ACCEPT me for WHO I TRULY am, and all of the stress is taking its toll on my emotional and physical health. Really. It'll literally make you sick before long, all of that 'oh, God - what did that mean? Do they like me? Was I too forward? Why am I always coming on so strong? Why didn't he call me back? Was she offended by what I said? Oh, man, nobody's talking to me ... Augh!'

I STILL have moments where I call myself 'The Great Thread Killer', because it seems that most threads die when I respond to them. Illogical and insane as that is, we just look WAY deeply beyond the surface, into things that few others do - unless they're like us. We ferret things out. A lot of people are satisfied to just exist on the surface of life. For us, that's not even living. It's mind-numbing. You know what they say about the iceberg. Most don't even care to look below the surface of the water, even though THAT's where 80% of its mass actually lies, and some of the more gorgeous shots have been taken underwater.

Augh. They don't have the patience, or the desire, to dig deeper. It can be very frustrating. But you also have to just let them be and NOT let them (ironically) intimidate you out of being you.

Veronica Sawyer remains among my favourite characters for her ability to go through a full-on transformation, displaying so many shades of Scorpio in a single role. A genuine evolution. You'll enjoy 'Heathers' - if you enjoy a good, intense dark comedy. But what Plutonian doesn't?

' ... C-C-Corn Nuts!'

posted June 09, 2012 04:30 PM            

I hope I'll be able to think the same way as you do, and care less about what *other* people think of me. I'm actually not that bad (SN on ASC), but still self-conscious (Virgo Moon, anyone?). But really you make some very good points. That's why I love interacting with older people, you guys can always give a greater perspective on things and dedramatize the situation. I really need that because I tend to get lost in my own mind and (sometimes quite narrow) vision of things.

So, again, thanks a lot for writing these replies, oh and I always enjoy your other replies in other threads as well. Yep, I'm totally being generous today (can't hide a Venus/Jupiter conjunction forever, ya know?). Tee hee.

My curiosity is now triggered, I can't wait to watch that movie! Should be interesting.

Okay Saturn will soon cross my Venus/Jupiter AGAIN for the last time just before leaving Libra so I guess it's time for me to reassess my relationships and really think about what I want from them. Gonna be fun! But I know it's for the good.