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Author Topic:   A love of tragedy
sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always wondered what could make someone have an attraction to, an appreciation for things that are melancholic and tragic. Sad movies, TV, books etc. But even beyond that - feeling deeply touched and almost permanently affected by stories of suffering, loss, and addiction, almost to a point of feeling fulfilled from exposing yourself to these kinds of things. Some people avoid these kinds of things, yet others seem drawn to them.

What placements do you think denote this? It is a Pisces thing, merging with sorrow others feel? Could Scorpio and 8th house placements be thrown in, as a lack of fear towards heavy topics?

Feel free to share if you identify with this post, and what your placements/aspects are that you feel could make you this way.

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"Perfect love casts out fear."
-Anthony de Mello

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lalalinda
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posted September 30, 2012 01:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first part "an appreciation for things melancholic and tragic" could be a strong Saturn influence.
They're calm and wise and very comforting.
Think Capricorn Ascendant

The second part "feeling deeply touched and almost permanently affected" is empathy and that would fall under Pisces, or in aspect to Neptune or any 12th house activity, especially if Jupiter and/or the Moon is involved.

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"For all those who believe, expect a miracle.”
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anonymidarkness
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posted September 30, 2012 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have gemini moon in the 8th,scorpio stellium,pisces stellium,prominent pluto and I dont like happy endings.I was just wondering why I love reading accounts of people telling how their loved ones who died told them “I will come back,keep this ready,blah blah” before they died in some tragic events.Could be because of my mercury square pluto as well.I also dont like the movies in which the hero is near his death but suddenly he gets powerful,kills all his enemies,it does not happen in the real world.I think its the 8th house stuff.In the case of pisces,I think its because of their love for feeling their emotions,they can also imagine that they are the ones suffering from it and get drowned in it.

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Lotis White
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posted September 30, 2012 01:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I’ll chime in with my opinion.

I can actually quite enjoy fiction entertainment that has bit of darkness in it, and I don’t mind if the central hero or heroine of the story has to struggle through some tragedy and pain, as long as the ultimate end of the story is a happy one. Without the happy ending part I don’t think I’d want to bother with a story.

When I was a teen I read the story of ‘Tristan and Isolde’ as a paperback novel (Anyone familiar with this story knows that it’s a tragedy). It had such a sad ending that it effected my quite strongly . Like I actually felt really, really sad myself and had to distract myself by doing other things for a while, to take my mind off that ‘down’ feeling that I was having. I was very young back then though.

In general, even now, I’d say that darkness is okay as long as there’s a happy ending to the story. Pointless sadness is not my thing.

I’m a Capricorn Sun, with Moon in Cancer in the 8th house (probably why I don’t mind dark topics), and a stellium of planets in Sagittarius, including my Asc, Venus, Mercury and Neptune (probably why I need a happy ending). Mercury and Neptune are in the 12th house (I really enjoy stories that involve hidden, secret things, as well as an element of the supernatural, this could relate to my 8th house Moon as well). Mars is in Leo also (I do like there to be something epic and exciting about fiction entertainment story lines I take an interest in too!).

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Aquacheeka
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posted September 30, 2012 01:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an obsessive love of horror and that unsettled tension in certain types of horror (Home Movie, Paranormal Activity). What could be responsible for that? Scorp influence?

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lalalinda:
The first part "an appreciation for things melancholic and tragic" could be a strong Saturn influence.
They're calm and wise and very comforting.
Think Capricorn Ascendant

The second part "feeling deeply touched and almost permanently affected" is empathy and that would fall under Pisces, or in aspect to Neptune or any 12th house activity, especially if Jupiter and/or the Moon is involved.


That makes so much sense Linda. Thanks for these awesome insights. I never considered Saturn could play into it but maturity and wisdom could definitely lead one to have an appreciation for what's more melancholic and bittersweet versus all things upbeat and happy.

I have Saturn in the 3rd square my ASC and I can attest to this. I appreciate things that are subtly melancholic. I'm also seen as a bit depressive to other people with an appreciation for depressive literature... like Plath and Sexton.

I totally agree with the 12H/Neptune statements also. I could see people with 12H Moon or Jupiter or having a planet that disposits Jupiter and/or Moon in the 12th making one feel this way too.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I have an obsessive love of horror and that unsettled tension in certain types of horror (Home Movie, Paranormal Activity). What could be responsible for that? Scorp influence?

Yes, obsessive love of horror is definitely the macabre of Scorpio mixed with some 5th house stuff probably. Like ruler of the 5th in the 8th, or conjunct Pluto for example.

I can totally agree with you on the love of all things macabre, weird and tense... from Midnight Syndicate music to all horror movies and the Chiller channel on TV. I have my 5th house ruler in the 8th, conjunct a Black Hole, and trine Pluto. So you might want to check out your 8th, what Pluto's doing, if you have any Scorp planets and what they're contacting, etc. I say the 5th since it's naturally our enjoyment/pleasure house and if you seek pleasure in the darkness (8H/Scorp/Pluto), well, there you go. That's a possibility.

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Lava Flower
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posted September 30, 2012 02:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lava Flower     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have my Cancer moon in the 12th opposite Saturn exact, NN in the 8th and I relate to this so so much. Nothing moves me like a tragic story, or rather nothing did until I turned my life into what may end up a tragedy and since then, they lost their appeal. I won't say exactly what I always wanted to experience (because its messed up and embarrassing), but now that I'm living exactly that, I am in agony, its truly a nightmare and the worst part of all, its not just myself that I have hurt.

I'm not sure exactly what in my chart contributed to my manifesting what I wished for but I am now scared of my own shadow.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lotis White:

In general, even now, I’d say that darkness is okay as long as there’s a happy ending to the story. Pointless sadness is not my thing.

I’m a Capricorn Sun, with Moon in Cancer in the 8th house (probably why I don’t mind dark topics), and a stellium of planets in Sagittarius, including my Asc, Venus, Mercury and Neptune (probably why I need a happy ending). Mercury and Neptune are in the 12th house (I really enjoy stories that involve hidden, secret things, as well as an element of the supernatural, this could relate to my 8th house Moon as well). Mars is in Leo also (I do like there to be something epic and exciting about fiction entertainment story lines I take an interest in too!).


I can see where the Sagittarius optimism shines through beyond the 8H Cancer Moon in your above statements. Those Sadge planets seem to pull you emotionally from the 8th a little bit which is certainly a good thing. My Sadge ASC is the one thing in my chart that, at times, pulls me away from the darkness of things too, at least on the outside. Makes me feel more hopeful/less depressed.

I have an 8H Mars and I can attest to what you're saying too. I like things that are dark and supernaturalism doesn't bother me, I crave it.

Pluto is in my 12th and disposits my Mercury, so I always feel like I have a bit of a 12th house Mercury... how does this play out for you? I always feel like this gives me a mind that seeks darkness and profundity in life.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 02:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lava Flower:
I have my Cancer moon in the 12th opposite Saturn exact, NN in the 8th and I relate to this so so much. Nothing moves me like a tragic story, or rather nothing did until I turned my life into what may end up a tragedy and since then, they lost their appeal. I won't say exactly what I always wanted to experience (because its messed up and embarrassing), but now that I'm living exactly that, I am in agony, its truly a nightmare and the worst part of all, its not just myself that I have hurt.

I'm not sure exactly what in my chart contributed to my manifesting what I wished for but I am now scared of my own shadow.


I am so sad to here this Lava. I empathize with you. I actually, if this is even possible to you, DO somewhat understand what you mean by this... since something similar happened to me if you can believe it. I turned my own life into a tragedy also about 1.5-2 years back. I know how badly it hurts. I am so sorry.

I have my NN in Scorpio which seems to be similar to 8H NN so I can relate. I also have Scorp Jupiter which seems like good things come to me, enlightening things when I uncover life's darknesses. It's conjunct my NN too.

Moon-Saturn opposition sounds tough, even tougher with 12H Moon. I think 12H Moon is quite a sensitive and profound Moon. It takes courage to get through life's lessons with it. You're a brave soul, so don't ever give up.

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Aquacheeka
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posted September 30, 2012 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Yes, obsessive love of horror is definitely the macabre of Scorpio mixed with some 5th house stuff probably. Like ruler of the 5th in the 8th, or conjunct Pluto for example.

I can totally agree with you on the love of all things macabre, weird and tense... from Midnight Syndicate music to all horror movies and the Chiller channel on TV. I have my 5th house ruler in the 8th, conjunct a Black Hole, and trine Pluto. So you might want to check out your 8th, what Pluto's doing, if you have any Scorp planets and what they're contacting, etc. I say the 5th since it's naturally our enjoyment/pleasure house and if you seek pleasure in the darkness (8H/Scorp/Pluto), well, there you go. That's a possibility.



That's really interesting I have my moon in the 8th and it's trine Pluto. I'm also a Pluto Scorpio kid. Otherwise I don't have any Scorp in my chart. I mean... Pluto squares my entire chart pretty much, but by sign, not by aspect.

I'm sooo excited about October coming around, man. The Walking Dead is back, American Horror Story is back, and "Sinister" opens soon

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Lotis White
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posted September 30, 2012 02:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I have gemini moon in the 8th,scorpio stellium,pisces stellium,prominent pluto and I dont like happy endings.I was just wondering why I love reading accounts of people telling how their loved ones who died told them “I will come back,keep this ready,blah blah” before they died in some tragic events.Could be because of my mercury square pluto as well.I also dont like the movies in which the hero is near his death but suddenly he gets powerful,kills all his enemies,it does not happen in the real world.I think its the 8th house stuff.In the case of pisces,I think its because of their love for feeling their emotions,they can also imagine that they are the ones suffering from it and get drowned in it.

Funny, I'm like the opposite of you. When it comes to fiction I need me some happy endings. I guess that's because I see real life as tragic enough with out adding to in my fantasies as well. I've got Jupiter in the 7th house so when relationships end tragically in fiction that's the thing that bothers me the most. In the book 'Tristan and Isolde' that I read, he died of an illness not knowing that Isolde had come for him, and probably believing that she didn't give a rats as$ about him, so to speak. That's the part that really bothered me. If they got to see each other one last time, and say goodbye in a loving way I don't think the story would have bothered me so much. The fact that their love was left unspoken and unresolved, and that he believed she didn't even care for him anymore, was what really got me. I guess, sometimes I'm even okay with one of a pair of lovers dying in a story, so long as they get to have closure with each other and say goodbye properly.

My attitude towards non-fiction entertainment is totally different. Like if I'm watching '48 hours Mystery', 'Dateline', or a documentary about serial killers, I become more of a clinical observer. Here, I want to know all the details in an unflinching way. The attitude I take becomes totally different from when I'm watching a movie or reading a novel (where I drift into my own idealized fantasy world). I'm More realistic and matter of fact about non-fiction things. This probably comes from my Capricorn Sun, and also partly from my 8th house Moon, and Saturn in Virgo.

There's a big difference between what I like in my fiction entertainment choices, and what I'll look into with non-fiction stuff. My personal belief system helps with this though. I believe in life after death and reincarnation. So when I hear about real-life tragic stories, although I can feel compassion for the trauma or pain that person went though, I know that the person who died has simply moved on. The saddest thing about death to me is separation from loved ones still living. Other then that, death to me is just a transition from one stage of existence to another. Not that I'm ready to die yet myself, I've still got things I wanna do in this life! My point was that my beliefs help me to handle the notion of death better then average. From my perspective it's not the end.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 02:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

That's really interesting I have my moon in the 8th and it's trine Pluto. I'm also a Pluto Scorpio kid. Otherwise I don't have any Scorp in my chart. I mean... Pluto squares my entire chart pretty much, but by sign, not by aspect.

I'm sooo excited about October coming around, man. The Walking Dead is back, American Horror Story is back, and "Sinister" opens soon


Ah, that makes so much sense - we both have an 8H planet trine Pluto. I'm also a member of the Pluto in Scorpio generation.

Just having the 8H Moon and Moon-Pluto is enough to add an impact to your life. What house does your Moon rule? I'm curious to know now.

OMG... I am so excited for Halloween too. Already deciding on what really twisted decorations to get and it isn't even Oct. 1st yet. Been watching all my favorite Chiller series, and Dead Like Me, and all the Friday the 13th movies, and getting my pumpkins to carve, and - gotta stop myself, I'm getting way too hyper. LOL.

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Lava Flower
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posted September 30, 2012 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lava Flower     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I am so sad to here this Lava. I empathize with you. I actually, if this is even possible to you, DO somewhat understand what you mean by this... since something similar happened to me if you can believe it. I turned my own life into a tragedy also about 1.5-2 years back. I know how badly it hurts. I am so sorry.

I have my NN in Scorpio which seems to be similar to 8H NN so I can relate. I also have Scorp Jupiter which seems like good things come to me, enlightening things when I uncover life's darknesses. It's conjunct my NN too.

Moon-Saturn opposition sounds tough, even tougher with 12H Moon. I think 12H Moon is quite a sensitive and profound Moon. It takes courage to get through life's lessons with it. You're a brave soul, so don't ever give up.


Thank you hun I'm sorry about your experience as well. Have you healed or come to terms with the situation? Is your NN in the 12th then? Mine is in Pisces.

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Lotis White
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posted September 30, 2012 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I can see where the Sagittarius optimism shines through beyond the 8H Cancer Moon in your above statements. Those Sadge planets seem to pull you emotionally from the 8th a little bit which is certainly a good thing. My Sadge ASC is the one thing in my chart that, at times, pulls me away from the darkness of things too, at least on the outside. Makes me feel more hopeful/less depressed.

I have an 8H Mars and I can attest to what you're saying too. I like things that are dark and supernaturalism doesn't bother me, I crave it.

Pluto is in my 12th and disposits my Mercury, so I always feel like I have a bit of a 12th house Mercury... how does this play out for you? I always feel like this gives me a mind that seeks darkness and profundity in life.


Hi Sweet-Scorpion,

How has it influenced me? Well, I really love metaphysical/paranormal/supernatural topics. Both in fiction and non-fiction ways, and like you, I feel I crave this type of stuff. I don't mind the occasional horror film although, again, as mentioned previously, I prefer those that do have something of a happy ending. There might be a few exceptions to this though. Because I quite enjoyed the 'Paranormal Activity' films, the 70's film 'Carrie' with Sissy Spacek (poor Carrie White, she was so misunderstood not evil), and the movie 'Drag Me To Hell'. I also like non-fiction reality paranormal shows like 'Long Island Medium', 'The Unexplained', and 'Haunting Evidence'. These types of shows are right up my ally.

Also, along with having Mercury in the 12th and Moon in the 8th house... My Aqua 3rd house cusp ruler is Uranus in Scorpio, probably enhancing my interests.

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Heartless
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posted September 30, 2012 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heartless     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ooooh for someone who doesn't cry i love tragic/unhappy endings. happy endings disappoint me. it's all fake fake fake. as well as things 'romantic' which my H8 and H12 will crush to bits!

but maybe i'm just an arse!?!

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Ceridwen
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posted September 30, 2012 06:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus or Moon to Pluto
probably also some strong Neptune aspects in there.


I am a sucker for these kind of things. It is almost scary how much I can be touched by TV, films, music etc, to the point I find parts of myself through them.

You wouldn´t expect that from an Aqua Moon though, would you?

Well I "blame" most of all my Venus-Pluto-square.
And secondly I blame the fact that the dispositor of my Sag-stellium, including ASC, is in Pisces in 3rd house (4th house in equal) squaring Neptune on the ASC.
And Neptune is conjunct Mars in the 12th house, which rules my IC.

So for me it is Pluto/Neptune, and the relevant houses are 3/1/4 (for the Neptunian aspects) and 1/10/5/12 for the Pluto-Venus aspect (Pluto also rules 11th house and Venus 6th house, but I don´t know if these are so relevant in this instance).

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Ceridwen
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posted September 30, 2012 06:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh and I like happy endings, too. Let them struggle all the way, but give them peace and love and hope in the end, please?

Lotis White,
I am totally fascinated with Tristan and Isolde (was writing a paper on these in university), and like you it struck me so much. I actually tend to look these asteroids up in synastries to see where tragedy might keep lovers apart (well, not only tragedy from the outside, but where they stand in their own way as well).

Well, I guess it is not hard tosee astrologically why.
ISOLDA is on 3 Aries on my IC squaring TRISTAN on 3 Capricorn (only 2 degrees off my VESTA and 3 degrees off my Venus).

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RegardesPlatero
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posted September 30, 2012 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like tragedy in the arts, but not in real life.

As in, I can enjoy it in music, film, TV, books, etc. (as long as it isn't graphic/gory/make me sick and queasy--I appreciate more emotional tragedy than physical), and can enjoy seeing how it profoundly affects a character, but I don't like it happening to me.

I don't like happy endings if they seem out of place/forced. I like to have a balance of sad and happy endings, endings that seem one way but are actually another (example: one that seems sad, but something good comes of it, or vice versa), and open endings.

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amowls**
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posted September 30, 2012 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls**     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a Pisces Venus. The love stories that touch me the most are the ones that don't have happy endings.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I "blame" most of all my Venus-Pluto-square.
And secondly I blame the fact that the dispositor of my Sag-stellium, including ASC, is in Pisces in 3rd house (4th house in equal) squaring Neptune on the ASC.
And Neptune is conjunct Mars in the 12th house, which rules my IC.

So for me it is Pluto/Neptune, and the relevant houses are 3/1/4 (for the Neptunian aspects) and 1/10/5/12 for the Pluto-Venus aspect (Pluto also rules 11th house and Venus 6th house, but I don´t know if these are so relevant in this instance).


Awesome insights Ceridwen. I totally agree with all your comments. Especially the Mars-Neptune conjunction. I feel that Mars-Neptune aspects make one have an appreciation for the melancholic, profound and artistic. I have the opposition with my Mars in the 8th.

A Pisces planet dispositing all your planets could also make sense.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I like tragedy in the arts, but not in real life.

As in, I can enjoy it in music, film, TV, books, etc. (as long as it isn't graphic/gory/make me sick and queasy--I appreciate more emotional tragedy than physical), and can enjoy seeing how it profoundly affects a character, but I don't like it happening to me.

I don't like happy endings if they seem out of place/forced. I like to have a balance of sad and happy endings, endings that seem one way but are actually another (example: one that seems sad, but something good comes of it, or vice versa), and open endings.


Ah, this sounds so Libran to me. Especially the dislike of stuff that's seen as gruesome or nasty. That balance of happy and sad, the realistic elements of some unhappiness combined with natural happiness... totally screams Libra to me.

Open endings are my favorites too. Just so I can wonder about the fates of the characters with some sadness but also potential happiness being possible. These kinds of endings are actually my favorite since I like that Libran balance of happy/tragic too. Like one of my favorite sort of open endings in a pretty depressing film is when Mark Renton is walking away and fades out at the end of 'Trainspotting'. You never really know what's going to happen to him since he could easily get addicted again from his history as an addict, but it makes you feel bittersweetly happy since he has the money and got the hell out of there.

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RegardesPlatero
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posted September 30, 2012 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Ah, this sounds so Libran to me. Especially the dislike of stuff that's seen as gruesome or nasty. That balance of happy and sad, the realistic elements of some unhappiness combined with natural happiness... totally screams Libra to me.

Open endings are my favorites too. Just so I can wonder about the fates of the characters with some sadness but also potential happiness being possible. These kinds of endings are actually my favorite since I like that Libran balance of happy/tragic too. Like one of my favorite sort of open endings in a pretty depressing film is when Mark Renton is walking away and fades out at the end of 'Trainspotting'. You never really know what's going to happen to him since he could easily get addicted again from his history as an addict, but it makes you feel bittersweetly happy since he has the money and got the hell out of there.


well, I am a Libra

though I have Venus in Scorpio...dun dun dun.


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sweet-scorpion
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posted September 30, 2012 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
well, I am a Libra

though I have Venus in Scorpio...dun dun dun.


Same here! I do have the infamous Scorpio Venus too... fun, isn't it? Sigh

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RegardesPlatero
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posted September 30, 2012 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Same here! I do have the infamous Scorpio Venus too... fun, isn't it? Sigh

There are things that I do like about this placement--I used to really hate it, but have come to appreciate it as I've gotten older.

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