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Author Topic:   Proof of Astrology
Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When people ask you to prove your one love, Astrology
what do you usually say?

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I say.....
"One group says that astrology in the West, the Tropical system, is often considered to be unscientific, New Age or Hippy or for those who are superstitious or eccentric and generally not accepted by rational logical thinkers like astronomers and scientists."

"The other group uses the astrology of the East, the Sidereal system which is scientifically accurate and true to the actual, measurable, observable positions of the planets in their orbits according to present day astronomers and scientists. It is called Vedic astrology or Jyotish the ancient astrology of India, where it is held in high esteem by many scientific, astronomically minded people and the public at large."
Vedic astrology is Sidereal astrology, which is also known as Fixed star astrology. Western astrology is Tropical astrology or the Moving star system, which is governed by the precession of the equinoxes.

Around 1713 ago in 283 AD the two systems were in unison, but since then the Tropical system has gradually moved away from the Fixed star system, due to the precession of the equinoxes, by over 23 degrees if you were born in the 1950’s and 24 degrees if you are born now. The Tropical System continues to move out further each year and will continue this motion for the next 11,000 years or so before it starts to move back again.

This means that a birth chart drawn up in the two systems can vary by more than 23-24 degrees. For example, if you consider yourself an Aquarian (Sun in Aquarius) in the Western system, it might be the case that your Sun is actually in Capricorn. In many cases this means that your chart will change significantly from the Western Tropical moving star system to the Vedic Sidereal Fixed star system.

However, the Vedic chart is scientifically accurate and will give significant accurate information about a person in terms of psychology, practical and spiritual areas of life, as well as pinpointing significant periods of destiny and change.

Vedic astrology has many extra tools to use for chart interpretation starting with the natal chart and transits as in Western astrology and also up to 60 divisional or harmonic charts. Each one for a different aspect of life eg marriage, successes, children or siblings and so on. Varshaphal -annual charts, Dashas- planetary periods (this is not transits), Shad bala, strength of planets and many more. In addition the interpretation is often different from the Western perspective.

Perhaps this is the reason why a growing number of Western, Medieval and Hellenistic astrologers are now choosing to use Sidereal rather than Tropical charts.

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"How to Convert an Astrology Chart from the Western Tropical, to the Vedic Sidereal System

If you already know your Western Tropical chart you can convert it to a Vedic Sidereal chart.

If you were born around or before 1952 you will need to subtract 23 degrees from each point of the chart.

If the birth is closer to 2008 or 2000 you will need to subtract 24 degrees from each point of the chart.
Example conversion method

For a rising sign or planet that is over 23-24 degrees simply subtract the 23-24 degrees.
Example : A person’s rising sign is at 28 degrees Virgo and their Moon is at 27 degrees Taurus. The person is born in 1957.
To convert to a sidereal chart, I will subtract 23 degrees from each.
After the subtraction, the rising sign is now 5 degrees Virgo. Moon is now 4 degrees Taurus.

For a rising sign or planets that are below 23-24 degrees, add 6-7 degrees and take the planet back one horoscope sign.
Example : A persons’ rising sign may be 10 degrees Aquarius and their Moon may be at 8 degrees Pisces. The person is born in 1957
After the subtraction the rising sign is now 17 degrees Capricorn and the Moon is now at 15 degrees Aquarius.

In most charts there will generally be a mixture of planets as well as a rising sign that will be a mixture of above and below the 23 degrees, so you will have to use both methods in the astrology chart."

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KarkaQueen
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posted November 28, 2012 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sidereal astrology is not accurate for me IMO .. me with an Aries Moon... no.. just no

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Desiring Shadows
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posted November 28, 2012 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Science says IF ASTROLOGY WERE AT ALL TRUE it would be a sign off... and they have a system that IS a sign off... and its the original system...
which path
am
i
going
to
follow?

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Desiring Shadows
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Posts: 1814
From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
Sidereal astrology is not accurate for me IMO .. me with an Aries Moon... no.. just no

Yeah, I know. I'd rather be a Libra any day. xD

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KarkaQueen
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From: Uranus
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posted November 28, 2012 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
If Science says IF ASTROLOGY WERE AT ALL TRUE it would be a sign off... and they have a system that IS a sign off... and its the original system...
which path
am
i
going
to
follow?


But but.. ARIES MOON AND SAG RISING.. COME ON NOW. D:

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KarkaQueen:

But but.. ARIES MOON AND SAG RISING.. COME ON NOW. D:

Lmao. Its your pick. I just wanted to let more people be aware of this xD

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KarkaQueen
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From: Uranus
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posted November 28, 2012 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desiring Shadows:
Yeah, I know. I'd rather be a Libra any day. xD
But its true....
factually.
im introverted, this and that
its more accurate for me, anyway

Maybe its only for some people, ill be like IQ now and perhaps in your past life you were connected to India.. OooooOooo

Plus it says Im a Capricorn Sun -_- And I think I have Venus in Aries there too.... thats just so wrong

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KarkaQueen
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posted November 28, 2012 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KarkaQueen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would gladly take Venus in Cancer in exchange for my 28 degrees Venus in Gemini.. if I were born a few hours ahead, or one more day id be a Venus in Cancer... :/

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Dancinggggggg

-----
Sidereal:Virgo-Scorpio-Gemini
Tropical:Libra-Sagittarius-Gemini

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doommlord
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From: israel
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posted November 28, 2012 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doommlord     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ive seen vedic and its horrible in my opinion for the way it consideres itself to predict ones "fate"

having a certain placement can bring illness to ones loved ones....what a nonsense

and i turn out to be a virgo with cancer moon and aqua rising....as if...

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AcousticGod
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posted November 28, 2012 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The interpretations are a bit different in sidereal if I'm not mistaken, which could account for the difference.

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by doommlord:
ive seen vedic and its horrible in my opinion for the way it consideres itself to predict ones "fate"

having a certain placement can bring illness to ones loved ones....what a nonsense

and i turn out to be a virgo with cancer moon and aqua rising....as if...


Yeah that does sound horrible. lol
When it comes down to it, the two systems would part u between the 2 signs...
Cancer or Libra and I def. think Cancer shines more. What do you think?

.if you want you can check out "Sign Guessing From Videos", that'd be cool...

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Ceridwen
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posted November 28, 2012 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I usually say: First prove love (or any other feeling) to me.


Cause in most cases people who ask me to prove astrology to them just want to point out all the flaws in that belief or doubt my sanity (often they will not just ask for proof but start with: You are such an intelligent woman in all other ares....)


But that is not what you meant, right?

Well, my aunt sometimes asks me about it, and if I can`t explain something to her about astrology, I know it is time to get back to the learning table and get my basics right again.
It helps me a lot talking with an openminded sceptic.

She was pretty impressed with Westrans study on progressed synastry btw.

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I usually say: First prove love (or any other feeling) to me.


Cause in most cases people who ask me to prove astrology to them just want to point out all the flaws in that belief or doubt my sanity (often they will not just ask for proof but start with: You are such an intelligent woman in all other ares....)


But that is not what you meant, right?

Well, my aunt sometimes asks me about it, and if I can`t explain something to her about astrology, I know it is time to get back to the learning table and get my basics right again.
It helps me a lot talking with an openminded sceptic.

She was pretty impressed with Westrans study on progressed synastry btw.


Wow, thats so cool! Thanks for sharing

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a linksie, ooh lah lah

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SaturnineMoth
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posted November 28, 2012 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaturnineMoth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband and I never see eye to eye on astrology - he's an extreme skeptic - I generally avoid trying to convince him of anything on the topic~ just because I hate disharmony, and it's really just a waste of time/breath.

Anyone so close-minded so to not see the mere possibilities of knowledge or spiritual insight offered by this field of study, are usually /not/ going to change their ways no matter how long you try to convince them otherwise - most the time they are already set in their narrow minded stance against it, if they're not remotely open to the idea, I'd rather avoid the dilemma/questions.

My husband is an extreme skeptic, although I think his upbringing has a lot to do with it~ his mother switched her faith to JW from Catholic (very old fashioned strict Catholic Portuguese family that turns to JW --- not at all welcome to ideas on the metaphysical or divination crafts.)!~ lol My MiL got into a huge fuss once when my husband and I were out taking pictures of the moon (eclipse) and stars one night~ she said the eclipse was a sign of the devil.................. serious?

I've had encounters with some people who were not set in any opinion but willing to debate the function and practicality or other words... scientific validity, in using astrology. Those people I enjoyed having exchanges with~ !!

I just ask that if someone isn't entirely set against the field to be open enough to say that even if to them - it is not a science - it still has science to it~ and like all sciences it evolves with our understanding of it... so, that (hopefully) they will understand why it is important to (not just me but) humankind to continue to learn from it/study it, and to let it room to "breath and change" the same way other sciences do.

if a person can tolerate that much, then, they've done well in my book, at least~

^^;

------------------
07° Vir ASC, 23° Cap SUN V, 23° Tau MOON IX

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Aeline
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posted November 28, 2012 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aeline     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hm... in vedic my ASC is Leo, and here's what they say about it: http://astrobix.com/horoscope/lagnapredi/leo


And it damned true! I see myself in that description totally! Much more than in tropical one - Virgo ASC. But maybe that's just my Leo Moon and SN.


Even this one, LOL:

you will have stout physique with broad shoulders. You will be sunny cheerful disposition, will have fearless eyes of grey tint, wavy hair with receding hairline. You will walk upright and talk straight

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Huh, thats awesome you found it to be true!

-----
(Just putting this out there, but in Vedic, my AC. is ACTUALLY Taurus, but because my sun/mercury/venus are in Virgo, and my 2nd is Gemini, I don't to want like to mislead people on my mutability... Because all in all, that Mercury energy IS there)
Sidereal:Virgo-Scorpio-Gemini
Tropical:Libra-Sagittarius-Gemini

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Aquacheeka
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posted November 28, 2012 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I usually cite either Percy Seymour's, Gunther Sachs' or Didier Castille's books, or the various other studies that have been conducted that prove Western astrology in particular has some validity.

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Desiring Shadows
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From: UNITED STATES, BABY
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posted November 28, 2012 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Desiring Shadows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I usually cite either Percy Seymour's, Gunther Sachs' or Didier Castille's books, or the various other studies that have been conducted that prove Western astrology in particular has some validity.

OMG REALLY
Do you own the books, or can you check them out and post some of that information online? bcuz Ive checked like everywher e

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Faith
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posted November 28, 2012 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes and Gary Goldschneider, author of The Secret Language of Birthdays (and two other Secret Language books) compiled a database of 25,000 people whose biographies he studied over the course of 40 years to chart out where attributes fall through the year.

He had this posted online for free at one time. You could see some of his charts.

Like, for my birthday, most people he studied had or have a strong poetic orientation, interest in the occult, troubled love lives, and a strong tendency toward self-sacrifice. I can get books out of the library for these people and see myself all over the place. In fact, a few times when I've been reading a book, I have KNOWN that the author is born on the same day as me, THEN I go to the internet to confirm it. Such was the case with a Nigella Lawson cookbook I picked up, and twice with astrology books (Stephen Forrest and some other woman whose name I forget.)

But Gary Goldschneider, who is a genius and was featured on TV as a prodigy when he was three...and went to Yale medical school...he has done that for every day of the year. I don't know how someone could pick up his books and not see accuracy unless they just refused to think.

My $.02

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