posted January 01, 2013 01:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
So sad to hear it.. I know how it feels.. my mother has a scorpio mercury, and the word venom is spot on. She loves to humiliate and insult. Does it to my father even more so, and I always wonder where he gets patience to stand it, almost never makes a stand against it, just silently bearing all the pain..I've come to the point when I question myself, whether he's a bit of a masochist (pisces sun, cancer moon).
Emotionally manipulative.. yes, all the time. When I moved out, she would say that I'm ungrateful and question me, if I really hate her. when it really was for me a way to become fully independent (I'm still a student). She was actually so persuasive, that I moved back, after less than a year, she promised me, that she would give me peace, personal space and never reproach me with my way of living.. It was fine for few months, but then just got worse. Now she keeps saying I wasn't able to live alone and came weeping back..
She's hurt me so many times,that I now know that I might never have a good relationship with her, perhaps only, when I definitively move out, and have a physical distance with her... Do you have any indicators in your own chart of a turbulent relationship with your mother?

I think that Plutonian people are mostly picked on because they show inner strength and depth, and that's what others will always try to repress. It's just a sign of other's weakness.

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ummm, let's see I have moon sextile chiron. Chiron is positioned in the 4th H. The Moon represents the Mother right, and everything that has to do with emotions.Have read an article on the net that when chiron aspects any of your personal planets, the latter become chirotic. It relates to past life struggles that are echoed in the subconscious level in this life.I think am meant to heal my wounds in that area so that I can help others heal, especially those who have the same wounds.

posted January 01, 2013 01:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
I can completely relate to this too. The only time when it doesn't work out for me is when someone I love has done the same thing to me over and over and over again and has seemingly ignored any truth I have expressed and then my Moon square Mars kicks in and I lose it. That's when I can become mean and really bring the hammer down but I do not relish the thought of having hurt someone and I always feel bad after the fact - but like you mentioned, not for speaking the truth but more so the harshness of my tone or maybe word choice.

I love this topic. I can truly relate to what everyone has said, at least to some degree if not completely.

And Belba, what you just wrote about other people trying to repress (or in my experience either invalidate or deny) someone's inner strength and power ---that really resonates with me too. That is the kind of family that I grew up with and I've recently gotten to the point where I have begun seriously distancing myself from them for that very reason.

For example, I went through quite a lot of abuse as a child in my family home and when I brought it up with my mother for the hundredth time, she commented that I was very angry and very hard to live with as a child! When I suggested that perhaps I was angry due to living in an unsafe and abusive environment, she asked me what I thought my responsibility was in the abuse! (She actually asked me that with a straight face.)

Does anyone else relate to what the article mentioned about secrets and/or lack of communication growing up? From a psychological point of view, it makes perfect sense to have communication (and therefore the truth) denied as a child and then feel as though the truth needs to come first, often at the expense of everything else.

I swear, just reading this thread is like a group therapy session for me!

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Same here. Writing all down helps

posted January 01, 2013 06:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
ummm, let's see I have moon sextile chiron. Chiron is positioned in the 4th H. The Moon represents the Mother right, and everything that has to do with emotions.Have read an article on the net that when chiron aspects any of your personal planets, the latter become chirotic. It relates to past life struggles that are echoed in the subconscious level in this life.I think am meant to heal my wounds in that area so that I can help others heal, especially those who have the same wounds.

All my past relationships were doomed already because I was so unstable emotionally at that time and now I see myself as a different person and I know deep down it is ALL because I feel differently about my mother now.I fly beyond and above her nasty remarks and her psychological attacks now. I know who I am, although I do regret certain things have done and said against my father when I was completely blinded by her so called maternal love. I think the worst thing that a woman can do to her children is use them as a weapon.

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I think moon sextile chiron tells a lot about that your relationship with your mother. According to what you've written, you've got all figured out, but I'll still write few words, if you don't mind. I'm just overwhelmed with the therapeutical dimension of our debate and I get to see things more clearly if I write them down

Chiron is usually painful, but in a therapeutic way, it cleans and gives you a crystal clear view on the planet it aspects. It gives you a lot of potential, imho, to learn a lot from your Moon – Mother, and 4th house – your roots, family, subconscious patterns you've perhaps »inherited«, to get to know your emotional being even more, to it's core. When you get to know yourself completely, only then you can devote yourself to helping others. That pain enables you to rise like a Phoenix, stronger and brighter, showing light to people who struggle with pain, which is something you can relate to.

Do you have any idea where you could use that healing power? It doesn't really have to be in a professional way, but it would be a shame to neglect this potential you have

You »fly above«... hehe, it's no wonder I used a Phoenix metaphore the way you feel right now is almost identical to mine... It's so good (not good in a smugly way) to know someone who has that kind of experiences and share it with you... For years I felt guilty and unworthy of her love, after all the anger has ran out, bitterness has come and took over my whole being, and regardless of me constantly telling myself I'm not the (only) one responsible for our arguments, I subconsciously felt guilty. When I was a little girl, I even used to think I am the one that has to save my parent's relationship.
Oh, and all the conspiring against our father.. Tell me about it. She used to tell everything to me and my sister, bi**ing about every move he made, inciting us against us... She has no close friends and so she could only confide us.. I soon realized how wrong was that, especially when I saw my father's suffering. And I regained my confidence only when I made some really good, close friend, with them I got to know my real self. Only that I am still afraid that I might not be able to have a normal relationship.

posted January 01, 2013 06:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:

Does anyone else relate to what the article mentioned about secrets and/or lack of communication growing up? From a psychological point of view, it makes perfect sense to have communication (and therefore the truth) denied as a child and then feel as though the truth needs to come first, often at the expense of everything else.

I swear, just reading this thread is like a group therapy session for me!

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Sorcha, everything you've written.. Actually I've ran out of words. I feel you *hug*

About the lack of communication.. Hm, don't know how did it show with me.. I was, as a child, the one who never talked about my feelings, just carried the pain inside me and cried in secret. There was no proper communication between my parents, it was usually just my mother's verbal assaults and father not being able to respond, just sulking quietly. There was very little talk about positive feeling and signs of affection, and a lot of reproachs. I still struggle with this, not that it's hard for me to say loving things, it's just that I seldom remember it's great expressing affections verbally. But I'm getting better with time

posted January 01, 2013 07:22 AM            

I have Chiron Square Sun
Chiron Sextile Moon
Chiron Square Saturn
Chiron Opposition Uranus
Chiron Conjunction Lilith
Chiron Square Ascendant

EVERYTHING was painful at a specific point in my life, on the family front,professionally and my love life, everything. I used to have a big ball of hurt lodged in the place of my heart. BUT I have learnt SO MUCH. These experiences have helped me grow SO MUCH emotionally. You can't imagine. I could have become revengeful, someone full of resentments and negative thoughts, I am not. Not even against my mother or father. I feel so sad for them now.

I think trying to make a relationship work is a bigger challenge in life. I have this burning thing inside of me to have a HAPPY FAMILY one day, it's like a personal challenge for me, breaking all the chains, and emotional restrictions. And I know God will help me in that task.

''Do you have any idea where you could use that healing power? It doesn't really have to be in a professional way, but it would be a shame to neglect this potential you have ''

I feel I have a purpose in that sense. I don't know yet HOW, but I have this gut feeling that I will some time along the way

'' When I was a little girl, I even used to think I am the one that has to save my parent's relationship.''

You've said so well. I used to feel 'responsible' for their fights, well that was what she made me feel, and I was only about 7 years old and it was like that for years. When they fight she will always use me a shield.

''Oh, and all the conspiring against our father.. Tell me about it. She used to tell everything to me and my sister, bi**ing about every move he made, inciting us against us... She has no close friends and so she could only confide us.. ''

It's like you are telling the story of my life my friend! Even NOW, she is jealous of the bond I share with my sister. We are very close, my sister and I and she views that as a conspiracy against her.She tries to divide us, incite one against the other, but she won't succeed.

''I soon realized how wrong was that, especially when I saw my father's suffering.''

try to be there for your father, it's important for him and for you.

'' Only that I am still afraid that I might not be able to have a normal relationship.''

I know exactly what you mean, am afraid too. But we have to show and prove to yourselves that we are not our parents, because only then we will be able to break those past life chains.

I'm so glad to have you sharing so much. Feel good HUGS.

My difficult aspects ( I think) in addition to my chiron aspects are

Sun sq uranus
saturn sq uranus
moon trine uranus ( am not sure on this one)

posted January 01, 2013 12:56 PM            

Aspects to Pluto from any of the personal planets are profoundly problematical. but as ever, the first and most effective step on the path to cure must be to recognise the behaviours and take responsibility for them. Owning up to our Plutonic compulsions, shining light upon them – uncomfortable though it may be – is often powerfully effective in transforming them: indeed, in many cases an “instant cure” is entirely possible.

I have:
Sun square Pluto
Mercury trine Pluto
Venus sextile Pluto
Mars trine Pluto

as well as..

Jupiter square Pluto
Uranus semi-sextile Pluto
Neptune sextile Pluto

With Pluto touching almost my whole chart, any kind of statement about ONE Pluto aspect being "problematical" and in need of a "cure" quickly overwhelms me. It's too much of a thinking assignment right from the start...and my Pluto-Mercury doesn't like being told outright what it is and is not, what its sickness is and cure involves.

Mercury Pluto, in keeping with other applications of Lord Hades deals with hidden, sinister and subtle aspects of communication and of course the mental processes that underpin them.

Yeah so I wonder what this guy is thinking?

these people talk, often exhaustively although without necessarily revealing much of substance about themselves.

That sounds like a put-down.

I reveal a lot. If anything, I reveal more than your average person.

posted January 02, 2013 12:20 AM            

Me?

Pluto dominant.
Mercury in Scorpio.
Pluto in Scorpio.
Mercury exactly conjunct Pluto.
Merc/Pluto exactly conjunct Jupiter.
Sun widely conjunct Merc/Jup/Pluto.
Sagittarius Sun ruled by Jupiter.
Merc/Jup/Pluto square Mars.

You want a Mercury-Pluto person? Look no further.

Someone mentioned Mercury-Mars giving a blow, but Mercury-Pluto giving the killing blow, and yes, that is entirely true. I'm verbally combative, though in a playful way. But if you actually manage to get me angry (and you have to push me pretty far to get me angry) I will completely destroy you.

This is because I have a creepy instinctual understanding of people. I will know exactly what to say to psychologically wreck people and their self-esteem without it having ever been brought up. I would never stoop to "You're fat!" in a serious confrontation with someone when "No one likes you because they can't trust a manipulative, attention-seeker who creates pathetic facades in your desperate attempts to emulate anyone who gives you the time of day because you don't have enough of a backbone to be your own person and then expect to garner pity from your supposed helplessness" cuts straight to the heart of the matter.

I'm kind of infamous for catching lies, if only because EVERYONE talks to me about their dramas and I can point out when something seems wrong or there's a contradiction. The only friend who consistently avoids telling me about her personal life is the one who is scared of how easily I call her on her bullsh*t.

Unfortunately, the whole "socially awkward because they come off as interrogative and suspicious" is very true. I'm not comfortable approaching strangers to talk to because I always feel like I'm coming on too strong and sound like I am really self-absorbed and boring (even when I tell myself I'm probably not), and when strangers approach me every defense mechanism I have goes up immediately and I look like a deer in headlights. Combined with the "despises the superficial and capricious" thing, and I'm the absolute WORST at small talk.

It's kind of lonely because it's hard to make friends when you scare people away like that.

I can attest to the fact that the Mercury-Pluto thing picks up little things about people. I can pick up vibes from people that are amazingly accurate, so I can tell almost immediately whether I'm going to like someone or if I'm going to be in danger around them. It's actually helped a couple of friends on a few occasions.

I can also sound very authoritative. Everyone listens to me when I talk, and I've been told that I always sound like I know what I'm talking about and have very sound logical reasoning behind what I say. It makes me into one of those quiet types who can immediately control the attention of everyone in the room if I choose to speak. (Which is a little intimidating for me too; everyone suddenly turns and stares blankly at you and you feel really self-conscious because you think they all think what you're saying is dumb or weird or inappropriate.)

I'm not particularly secretive though. I may not necessarily go out of my way to tell people about myself, but anyone can ask me just about anything about myself and I'll tell them. There's no point in shrouding it. And if you're open about something, no one can use it against you.

I'm not manipulative, either. Although I can come off as far more calculating than I really am. I'll cut straight to the heart of something and everyone will be caught off guard because they'll think I wasn't paying attention or I pointed out something very accurate that no one else had noticed before.

posted January 02, 2013 02:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by inaworldofsong:
Oh Pluto.

Me?

Pluto dominant.
Mercury in Scorpio.
Pluto in Scorpio.
Mercury exactly conjunct Pluto.
Merc/Pluto exactly conjunct Jupiter.
Sun widely conjunct Merc/Jup/Pluto.
Sagittarius Sun ruled by Jupiter.
Merc/Jup/Pluto square Mars.

You want a Mercury-Pluto person? Look no further.

Someone mentioned Mercury-Mars giving a blow, but Mercury-Pluto giving the killing blow, and yes, that is entirely true. I'm verbally combative, though in a playful way. But if you actually manage to get me angry (and you have to push me pretty far to get me angry) I will completely destroy you.

This is because I have a creepy instinctual understanding of people. I will know exactly what to say to psychologically wreck people and their self-esteem without it having ever been brought up. I would never stoop to "You're fat!" in a serious confrontation with someone when "No one likes you because they can't trust a manipulative, attention-seeker who creates pathetic facades in your desperate attempts to emulate anyone who gives you the time of day because you don't have enough of a backbone to be your own person and then expect to garner pity from your supposed helplessness" cuts straight to the heart of the matter.

I'm kind of infamous for catching lies, if only because EVERYONE talks to me about their dramas and I can point out when something seems wrong or there's a contradiction. The only friend who consistently avoids telling me about her personal life is the one who is scared of how easily I call her on her bullsh*t.

Unfortunately, the whole "socially awkward because they come off as interrogative and suspicious" is very true. I'm not comfortable approaching strangers to talk to because I always feel like I'm coming on too strong and sound like I am really self-absorbed and boring (even when I tell myself I'm probably not), and when strangers approach me every defense mechanism I have goes up immediately and I look like a deer in headlights. Combined with the "despises the superficial and capricious" thing, and I'm the absolute WORST at small talk.

It's kind of lonely because it's hard to make friends when you scare people away like that.

I can attest to the fact that the Mercury-Pluto thing picks up little things about people. I can pick up vibes from people that are amazingly accurate, so I can tell almost immediately whether I'm going to like someone or if I'm going to be in danger around them. It's actually helped a couple of friends on a few occasions.

I can also sound very authoritative. Everyone listens to me when I talk, and I've been told that I always sound like I know what I'm talking about and have very sound logical reasoning behind what I say. It makes me into one of those quiet types who can immediately control the attention of everyone in the room if I choose to speak. (Which is a little intimidating for me too; everyone suddenly turns and stares blankly at you and you feel really self-conscious because you think they all think what you're saying is dumb or weird or inappropriate.)

I'm not particularly secretive though. I may not necessarily go out of my way to tell people about myself, but anyone can ask me just about anything about myself and I'll tell them. There's no point in shrouding it. And if you're open about something, no one can use it against you.

I'm not manipulative, either. Although I can come off as far more calculating than I really am. I'll cut straight to the heart of something and everyone will be caught off guard because they'll think I wasn't paying attention or I pointed out something very accurate that no one else had noticed before.

Actually, now that I think about it, Mercury-Pluto's kind of like my superpower. Cool.

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