posted December 30, 2012 12:21 PM            

Found this article, don't know how reliable it is, just that I relate to most of the things said.
http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/mercury-pluto-insight-or-inquisition/

I want to know if there are other people here who have this aspect and how do they deal with it? Sometimes I see through people's actions and I will gut that person alive with words and boy I do that so well!Plus I do tend to get very passionate when am discussing a topic that I love so it gets very intense for me at times that I can actually feel the pressure of the room moving up a notch.

posted December 30, 2012 02:26 PM            

"But there is a more profound realisation here too. It is not actually so much what is said that concerns Mercury – Pluto, but indeed what is not said."

The article also mentioned that being too aware and perceptive about what lies beneath can often feel like a handicap. When I am seeing clients, it's a great skill, but in my interpersonal relationships, especially with my family and with men, it just plain sucks. It's sort of like trying to convince someone to look at the elephant in the room. They might see something in their peripheral vision, but they are determined not to turn their heads and look at it dead on because then they would have to acknowledge it (and do something about it). Most of the time, the aspect bites me in the ass because I know the things that other people are not saying and I am able to get them to admit it. No one likes that unless they are paying you for it! Lmao.

"Able to delve into the deeper and more innate realities of interaction they can often see cause where others cannot; they see the subtle motivations that are in fact pre-cognitive, and in a very real sense they do not need the words to arrive at an understanding. In fact, the Mercury – Pluto person can often be frustrated at the depth of their understanding because words are ultimately a rather blunt instrument when trying to convey the profundity of their insight and this creates another signature of the contact of course: Mercury Pluto despises the superficial and capricious."

That last paragraph is so true for me and it's been making me feel a fair bit unbalanced lately. I feel incredibly frustrated since my family is more comfortable living on the surface of things, not dealing with the truth and they are very charming to your face until you leave the room and then they will happily rip you to shreds. Sometimes I wish I didn't know or understand these things because I feel like I would have much happier relationships. I usually try to live by the saying "What other people think of me is not my business" but lately I've found that really challenging.

I think that the main difference between a Mercury-Pluto and a Mercury-Mars aspect is that Pluto goes so much deeper in to the subconscious, dark and taboo. Mars manifests as actions - the tangible and physical - whereas Pluto is more concerned with those things which are more difficult to manifest and/or not as easily expressed.

Thanks for that article! Sometimes it's nice to feel astrologically validated

posted December 30, 2012 03:37 PM            

Anyhow, and I have said this before, but I read people in patterns and I hear nuances in their voices they cannot hide from me. It's a blessing and it's torture. Former because I can detect bs from far away and latter because sometimes people I care about lie and eventhough they try their hardest to hide it, they can't.

Sometimes it's also very hard for me to speak at all. I will have everything very well formulated in my mind but then it comes out as complete nonsense and it makes me feel slightly......below par on the IQ scale. When this happens I can get very frustrated and simply yell "I don't know" in sheer desperation and frustration.

posted December 30, 2012 03:54 PM            

He is an arrogant bully. Also, because he is a cheater, he questioned me constantly. For example, we rented a house near an elementary school. The kids would walk by my house every day going to & coming home. One day, one of the kids apparently unlatched and opened the gate. Either that, or a meter reader came through and didn't fully close the gate.

So he comes in from work and says, "Why did you leave the gate open?" and I say, "I didn't" followed by the plausible explanations of how it might have been opened. He says, "No, you must have gone somewhere. Where did you go?"

When I continue with "I haven't been anywhere" he freaked out, called me a liar, said I must have been going to see someone and then demanded I choose between him and this alleged lover. It was ridiculous as I had been home all day.

Same thing when I decided to put on eyeliner or nail polish. It was always "who are you trying to impress?" when I was just trying to make myself feel pretty. He was this way WITH EVERYONE... even his children. Apparently, no one is truthful and everything is BS.

It made it impossible to speak to him because there was no convincing him that he was the paranoid one. He also talked about picking up nuances in people's voices but that was intimidation and bullying making the other person feel dominated and helpless...of course their voices will change. Duh.

Honestly, in my experience, there is no positive outcome speaking to him about anything because he trusts nothing at face value.

posted December 30, 2012 03:58 PM            

He does seem very perceptive to the BS of his colleagues at work and he often predicts which one will be fired before they actually get fired.

posted December 30, 2012 04:20 PM            

The difference between them is that Mars-Mercury is combative and openly so, Mercury-Pluto is suspicious and secretive. Both are sharp, Mercury-Mars is less deeper though, more aggressive, while Mercury-Pluto is more profound and more painful. Both can be cutting, but Mercury-Pluto can also be poisonous. Mercury-Mars is prone to having angry words coming out of their mouth, Mercury-Pluto controls every word coming out of their mouths and unlikely to do so - more like smothering hateful words rather than rage-filled cursing typical of Mercury-Mars.

I lean more towards Mercury-Pluto than Mercury-Mars (unless I am really, really p!ssed off and no longer care what anyone would think of what I say, just need to get it off my chest and need to do that NOW, urgently so! - then I am very Mercury-Mars). I am naturally suspicious and prone to intellectual obsessions - it was philosophy when I was in high school, then astrology, then medicine, then psychology or spirituality. When I get into that sort of "phase" I devour every little piece of information I can get on the subject, I literally could read about it non-stop, no sleep, no food, no outside contact. I am very good with tiny details people would not even notice. Say I am.. erm.. going through your things (I wouldn't do that now, but used to when I was younger and more immature). I will first memorize the exact position of each object, every single fold of a certain piece of paper and place everything precisely the same way I found them, so that you would never know I was there. Lying to me is futile. I always find out, sooner or later. It is the suspicion that eats me up, though. I won't stop until I find out, no matter how long it takes or what I have to do to get there (initially I take the indirect route, until I get so mad with you that Mercury-Mars takes over and then I confront you about it).

Psychological mind games are a second nature to me. I grew up with them, they are a part of me. I dislike that profoundly because I decided to live differently than I was programmed to, and rarely resort to them, but when I do.. Oh man, you should see me in action! Planning every word, the tone of my voice, the precise timing of each blow, anticipating the exact reaction I will obtain and planning things further along. I rarely, if ever, find people who can think things one step faster than me - IF and only IF I am in Mercury-Pluto mindframe. I am very good at this sort of strategy, can easily pick up what would work with someone and what wouldn't. But it all has to happen WHILE I am in Mercury-Pluto realm. Because I have other aspects to my Mercury (like a trine to Moon and Neptune or opposition to Saturn), which have a completely, completely different MO. But when I am Mercury-Pluto I could easily be a spy or secret agent lmao! I could verbally or psychologically shred someone apart if I wanted to (but I will never want something like that).

Pluto is about power. Mercury-Pluto is about mental, intellectual or psychological power. It is having the mental ability to dominate and subdue another. It can be a secret weapon but also your own undoing. It is dangerous to play such games, but when in serious danger or threat, pretty much guarantees survival because the person thinks MANY steps ahead, not just one.

posted December 30, 2012 11:09 PM            

Having the square, I can relate to being completely obsessed about certain subjects to the point of no food, no contact, staying up all night till morning searching and studying.

I am also sharp-tongued without being angry or trying. This angers my grandparents to no end. I can't even talk to any of my water sign relatives or offer help without them raising their defenses.

Not sure about extreme ability to memorize every single detail...I have too much fire for that and details sometimes get long forgotten after I lose interest in a subject. I will rarely call a person a liar to their face, I am more the type to smile, nod, and doubt. I can tell when someone is speaking and they don't mean what they are saying. Sometimes I can catch lies, but not if I'm in love. Ugh. Doubt is a natural mental state for me. I can be paranoid. I will write a status on FB and then go back and delete it.

I don't know, though. Sometimes my Mercury-Saturn opposition censors this aspect. I am NOT manipulative in any shape or form. My Leo planets would not allow this... I would be caught onto before I can even start to. That and I have no water planets not even my 8th house and Scorpio Pluto in the 12th helps manipulation of others. I can however sense manipulation in others, having it happen so often.

posted December 31, 2012 12:08 AM            

quote:

---

Sometimes I can catch lies, but not if I'm in love. Ugh. Doubt is a natural mental state for me. I can be paranoid. I will write a status on FB and then go back and delete it.

---

posted December 31, 2012 12:22 AM            

quote:

---

Mercury-Mars may indicate a verbal warrior lol. If they have Moon-Mars, this person is good at being argumentative and can debate till the cows come home. I just think of someone who is quick on their feet in communication.

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posted December 31, 2012 12:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
Even here, I have, I think, gotten into heated arguments really like once or twice in 6 years. If I'm not the one starting the argument, it can be difficult for you to make me take part in it, as I consider it a sign of weakness to give answer to being provoked. But there are also times when I take impersonal things very personally and get inflamed fast (Mercury-Mars). But since almost everything is is fire, it vanishes quickly too. I keep grudges though, sometimes. Most of the times. Okay, I remember all of them.

---

posted December 31, 2012 01:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Geeky:
My ex-hubby has his Mercury sextile Pluto.

He is an arrogant bully. Also, because he is a cheater, he questioned me constantly. For example, we rented a house near an elementary school. The kids would walk by my house every day going to & coming home. One day, one of the kids apparently unlatched and opened the gate. Either that, or a meter reader came through and didn't fully close the gate.

So he comes in from work and says, "Why did you leave the gate open?" and I say, "I didn't" followed by the plausible explanations of how it might have been opened. He says, "No, you must have gone somewhere. Where did you go?"

When I continue with "I haven't been anywhere" he freaked out, called me a liar, said I must have been going to see someone and then demanded I choose between him and this alleged lover. It was ridiculous as I had been home all day.

Same thing when I decided to put on eyeliner or nail polish. It was always "who are you trying to impress?" when I was just trying to make myself feel pretty. He was this way WITH EVERYONE... even his children. Apparently, no one is truthful and everything is BS.

It made it impossible to speak to him because there was no convincing him that he was the paranoid one. He also talked about picking up nuances in people's voices but that was intimidation and bullying making the other person feel dominated and helpless...of course their voices will change. Duh.

Honestly, in my experience, there is no positive outcome speaking to him about anything because he trusts nothing at face value.

---

Am so sorry that you had to live such an horrible experience. Am glad he is an EX!

Are there other pluto aspects in his chart? or was it only mercury sextile pluto?

posted December 31, 2012 01:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by violet7887:
I have Merc trine pluto.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I know just what you mean, I do not take beating around the bush very well and I only like things straight to the point. Although I can be a master at mind games I actually despise them. People either like this or are intimidated and dont. To be very honest I could care less about the people that dont. I'm very black and white that way mostly. I also think this can sometimes give you a slightly hot temper (well, either this or its the combination with my moon and merc conjunct mars) interesting part is i never notice this about myself but others around me point it out.

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SPOT ON!!! feels like hugging for this haha!

posted December 31, 2012 07:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ail221:
Yup right there. I didn't have arguments often usually once I do blow my top its after a few situations and it slowly builds up until. I excuse myself and that person from the room and let them have it. It isn't a two-way street, I say what I have to say and they stand there and take it. Once I have said what I need to say the flames do go out rather quickly. I agree it is a sign of weakness to give a answer after being initially provoked I am guessing your a fire mercury as well.

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posted December 31, 2012 08:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hera:
I have Mercury conjunct Mars AND Mercury opposite Pluto.

The difference between them is that Mars-Mercury is combative and openly so, Mercury-Pluto is suspicious and secretive. Both are sharp, Mercury-Mars is less deeper though, more aggressive, while Mercury-Pluto is more profound and more painful. Both can be cutting, but Mercury-Pluto can also be poisonous. Mercury-Mars is prone to having angry words coming out of their mouth, Mercury-Pluto controls every word coming out of their mouths and unlikely to do so - more like smothering hateful words rather than rage-filled cursing typical of Mercury-Mars.

I lean more towards Mercury-Pluto than Mercury-Mars (unless I am really, really p!ssed off and no longer care what anyone would think of what I say, just need to get it off my chest and need to do that NOW, urgently so! - then I am very Mercury-Mars). I am naturally suspicious and prone to intellectual obsessions - it was philosophy when I was in high school, then astrology, then medicine, then psychology or spirituality. When I get into that sort of "phase" I devour every little piece of information I can get on the subject, I literally could read about it non-stop, no sleep, no food, no outside contact. I am very good with tiny details people would not even notice. Say I am.. erm.. going through your things (I wouldn't do that now, but used to when I was younger and more immature). I will first memorize the exact position of each object, every single fold of a certain piece of paper and place everything precisely the same way I found them, so that you would never know I was there. Lying to me is futile. I always find out, sooner or later. It is the suspicion that eats me up, though. I won't stop until I find out, no matter how long it takes or what I have to do to get there (initially I take the indirect route, until I get so mad with you that Mercury-Mars takes over and then I confront you about it).

Psychological mind games are a second nature to me. I grew up with them, they are a part of me. I dislike that profoundly because I decided to live differently than I was programmed to, and rarely resort to them, but when I do.. Oh man, you should see me in action! Planning every word, the tone of my voice, the precise timing of each blow, anticipating the exact reaction I will obtain and planning things further along. I rarely, if ever, find people who can think things one step faster than me - IF and only IF I am in Mercury-Pluto mindframe. I am very good at this sort of strategy, can easily pick up what would work with someone and what wouldn't. But it all has to happen WHILE I am in Mercury-Pluto realm. Because I have other aspects to my Mercury (like a trine to Moon and Neptune or opposition to Saturn), which have a completely, completely different MO. But when I am Mercury-Pluto I could easily be a spy or secret agent lmao! I could verbally or psychologically shred someone apart if I wanted to (but I will never want something like that).

Pluto is about power. Mercury-Pluto is about mental, intellectual or psychological power. It is having the mental ability to dominate and subdue another. It can be a secret weapon but also your own undoing. It is dangerous to play such games, but when in serious danger or threat, pretty much guarantees survival because the person thinks MANY steps ahead, not just one.

Mercury-Pluto got me out unharmed from 3 rape attempts. I never lifted a finger (though I was ready to fight till the death - that is Mars-Pluto talking now), I simply manipulated them into letting me go, unharmed. The last guy apologized for the discomfort he caused me after I was done with him.

---

I'm so glad you got away from that. I was just reading about this girl who was raped and mutilated in Delhi recently.She died yesterday during surgery.

''Mercury-Pluto controls every word coming out of their mouths and unlikely to do so - more like smothering hateful words rather than rage-filled cursing typical of Mercury-Mars.''

SO TRUE. I NEVER curse when am angry.Actually when I'm angry am at best mentally that is.

''Pluto is about power. Mercury-Pluto is about mental, intellectual or psychological power. It is having the mental ability to dominate and subdue another. It can be a secret weapon but also your own undoing. It is dangerous to play such games, but when in serious danger or threat, pretty much guarantees survival because the person thinks MANY steps ahead, not just one.''

posted December 31, 2012 10:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belba:
Jessica 2407, that article is just genious, and a this is a great topic.

Mercury sextile Pluto is actually my tightest aspect, but I've never paid much attention to it. I also have Mars squaring Mercury.
My mother has been, as far as I can remember, verbally abusive. It took some time to build up my confidence back, after the most turbulent times, we still fight though, on a daily basis.
I'm the type of person that shows anger verbally. I am very passionate about the topics I hold close to my heart, such as injustice in the society, and I despise any kind of ignorance, that is based only on person's wish not to dwell on the topic.
Sometimes I feel paralised, because I think I can't express all the thoughts properly, having all this knowledge and not being able to share it with others. I am an intellectual snob, tend to be arrogant, I admit it.
But I don't boast around and try to dominate in the conversation, am a good listener too, always analyzing the things other say.
I have the ability to get to the core of things, seeing where the problem lies, very perceptive, my friends often ask me for an opinion. The thing that hurts me most, is, that my closest friends highly value my judgement, my advice, but my family just ignores it. I've tried many times to confront my mother with her issues, to improve her life with advising her, but she just doesn't listen, and says I'm just being rude and ungrateful?? Maybe it's the martian way of putting it, I know I'm quite temperamental in conversing.
Hmmm, what else could be connected with this aspect? Oh, and yes, I strongly feel the caracters in the movies, books and in theaters.

---

This hits a soft spot for me. My mother too has always and will always be a verbally abusive person. That's the only way she knows how to express her anger. She manipulates emotionally and she is very good at roller-coasting you on a guilty trip. It's is very hard for me having to deal with what spews out of her mouth. It's pure venom.

posted December 31, 2012 11:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
This hits a soft spot for me. My mother too has always and will always be a verbally abusive person. That's the only way she knows how to express her anger. She manipulates emotionally and she is very good at roller-coasting you on a guilty trip. It's is very hard for me having to deal with what spews out of her mouth. It's pure venom.

Seriously what is it with pluto aspects that make people want to abuse you? eithe verbally, physically sexually? Why is that?

---

So sad to hear it.. I know how it feels.. my mother has a scorpio mercury, and the word venom is spot on. She loves to humiliate and insult. Does it to my father even more so, and I always wonder where he gets patience to stand it, almost never makes a stand against it, just silently bearing all the pain..I've come to the point when I question myself, whether he's a bit of a masochist (pisces sun, cancer moon).
Emotionally manipulative.. yes, all the time. When I moved out, she would say that I'm ungrateful and question me, if I really hate her. when it really was for me a way to become fully independent (I'm still a student). She was actually so persuasive, that I moved back, after less than a year, she promised me, that she would give me peace, personal space and never reproach me with my way of living.. It was fine for few months, but then just got worse. Now she keeps saying I wasn't able to live alone and came weeping back..
She's hurt me so many times,that I now know that I might never have a good relationship with her, perhaps only, when I definitively move out, and have a physical distance with her... Do you have any indicators in your own chart of a turbulent relationship with your mother?

posted December 31, 2012 01:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jessica2407:

SPOT ON!!! feels like hugging for this haha!

Actually it gives you a passionate anger. I ALWAYS ALWAYS mean what I say, although sometimes I'm sorry for having hurt another person especially if that person is someone I love very much. Am sorry for the hurt i have caused NOT for the truth I have told. I think all the power resides in words, so I would feel bad because I SHOULD have been less harsh in my communications. However with people I don't really care i won't feel any remorse. I love sarcasm, irony,and I am a master when it comes to sarcastic remarks. I also tend to judge people intellectually. I know it's wrong, but I can't help it.

---

I can completely relate to this too. The only time when it doesn't work out for me is when someone I love has done the same thing to me over and over and over again and has seemingly ignored any truth I have expressed and then my Moon square Mars kicks in and I lose it. That's when I can become mean and really bring the hammer down but I do not relish the thought of having hurt someone and I always feel bad after the fact - but like you mentioned, not for speaking the truth but more so the harshness of my tone or maybe word choice.

I love this topic. I can truly relate to what everyone has said, at least to some degree if not completely.

And Belba, what you just wrote about other people trying to repress (or in my experience either invalidate or deny) someone's inner strength and power ---that really resonates with me too. That is the kind of family that I grew up with and I've recently gotten to the point where I have begun seriously distancing myself from them for that very reason.

For example, I went through quite a lot of abuse as a child in my family home and when I brought it up with my mother for the hundredth time, she commented that I was very angry and very hard to live with as a child! When I suggested that perhaps I was angry due to living in an unsafe and abusive environment, she asked me what I thought my responsibility was in the abuse! (She actually asked me that with a straight face.)

Does anyone else relate to what the article mentioned about secrets and/or lack of communication growing up? From a psychological point of view, it makes perfect sense to have communication (and therefore the truth) denied as a child and then feel as though the truth needs to come first, often at the expense of everything else.

I swear, just reading this thread is like a group therapy session for me!