posted January 07, 2013 07:26 AM            

Moon/Mars hard aspects can be explosive too, but more in a childish way.

Mercury/Mars
Mercury/Saturn
Mercury/Uranus hard aspects all have the potential to be "rude" and even cruel in speech.

posted January 07, 2013 09:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Saturn/Mars, for sure. Hard aspects especially.

Mercury/Saturn

**my experience**

---

I have mercury conjunction saturn

posted January 07, 2013 09:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedScorp:
Mean and callous? Hmmmm...Pluto, Uranus.

---

I can assure you am not callous

Uranus Square Sun
Uranus Trine Moon
Uranus Square Saturn
Uranus Opposition Chiron
Uranus Square Ascendant

posted January 07, 2013 10:17 AM            

Saturn opp Moon can make you quite callous, condescending even.

Earth signs in general can be a trifle callous at any given time, likewise I'd almost expect those ruled by fire to be able to easily achieve a meanstreak... lol

Not necessarily the same as being such, but you may appear as one or the other with Mars, Pluto or Saturn aspecting the ascendant, too I would believe.

My bet is on having strong or hard placements/aspects involving one of these planets, or an afflicted Moon or sometimes even Venus... to one or the other... I'd consider this in comparison with the personal relationship houses too... seeing 1st, 5th, 7th, 6th, 10th, 11th.... I think they'd show a persons inner nature with regards to the aspects of their rulers, and these planets...

But, I think also, that all the things that can make one very sweet and sensitive can be reasons they become the opposite... say during a transit for instance, or in bad synastry... something is triggered that will make them present the darker side of even the positives... (I've known just as many callous water-dominants as I have earth dominants... lol that's my own personal experience though... haha)

posted January 07, 2013 12:04 PM            

Sun conjunct Mercury (R) & Venus (R) in Aries together with a Leo Moon and Mars in Taurus opposite Scorpio Pluto. Moon is either squaring Mars & trining Uranus, or just squaring Pluto. Sun sextile Jupiter.

Moon in Aquarius square Saturn in Scorpio. Sun conjunct Mercury in Libra square Neptune in Capricorn. Venus conjunct Mars in Virgo. Mars quincux Jupiter in Aquarius. Venus sextile Pluto.

posted January 07, 2013 01:16 PM            

Mars square Pluto with a loose orb
Venus square Saturn orb is a bit tighter on this one
Moon opposite Neptune with less than one degree separating

These are the ones in my personal natal chart that indicates an inclination.

There's also three inconjuncts from Saturn to Ascendant, Mercury and Jupiter which might be an indication as well.

posted January 07, 2013 02:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jessica2407:
Reading on all these aspects, I think we all have the choice to be mean. Although sometimes mean feels good but when I posted this topic I was thinking more in terms of what make people really insensitive to other people's pain, or someone who breathes and sleeps on how to make other people suffer, someone who finds pleasure in the suffering of others. That kind of meanness I guess depends on the person himself/herself, because I think there must be more than astrology to who a person really is right?

---

right!!!

o~
(devil's advocate)

posted January 07, 2013 03:07 PM            

<3 Aqua G <3

posted January 07, 2013 03:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i think meanness comes from the enviroment and how people treat you mostly. its not an inherent trait. think of a puppy dog, if you treat it with love and kindness it will be friendly towards you and other people for the most part. but if you abuse it and treat it harshly it will become mean and distrustful of humans, it might even attack people without provocation. i'm just going to be very blunt here, for the most part i do not trust or feel empathy for women. mostly because they have treated me badly, so what do you expect?

---

agreed aspects and placements can show what type of environment someone grew up in.

posted January 07, 2013 05:42 PM            

I have some pretty gnarly aspects from Mars to both planets, and I can be *very* cruel (verbally) when I'm provoked into it - after all, my Mars is in Cancer, which is all about defense, not offense.

I have to really be set off/severely attacked to get to that point...and even then? I don't think I've ever actually gone as far as I could go with it...I think I have the potential to be much, much, much worse with what I say but always, no matter what, there's a limit there I won't let myself pass, even though there's been more than a few times where some people deserved that (and then some).

Then you have the people who are that way because they derive pleasure out of it, and just get off on trying to hurt people even if they haven't done anything to them...which is probably a Neptune issue (lack of empathy) working in tandem with an afflicted Saturn, Pluto, and even Jupiter. I say Jupiter because if Jupiter is your sense of right and wrong and it's afflicted, then obviously...you see where I'm going with that.

I've noticed something else also in recent years, which is that, people with heavily afflicted outers can turn into real monsters *if* they were also abused as children. It's like a recipe for disaster. There needs to be that innate potential (as indicated by the aspect - something like Mars square Pluto) combined with some sort of childhood abuse or trauma. It's like a stick of dynamite, and the abuse lights the fuse.

posted January 08, 2013 09:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i think meanness comes from the enviroment and how people treat you mostly. its not an inherent trait. think of a puppy dog, if you treat it with love and kindness it will be friendly towards you and other people for the most part. but if you abuse it and treat it harshly it will become mean and distrustful of humans, it might even attack people without provocation. i'm just going to be very blunt here, for the most part i do not trust or feel empathy for women. mostly because they have treated me badly, so what do you expect?

---

Not all women are the same...or may be you have a predisposition to get attracted to the wrong types of women...

posted January 08, 2013 09:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by StacyLewis:
It's the domain of an afflicted Saturn, and/or afflicted Pluto.

I have some pretty gnarly aspects from Mars to both planets, and I can be *very* cruel (verbally) when I'm provoked into it - after all, my Mars is in Cancer, which is all about defense, not offense.

I have to really be set off/severely attacked to get to that point...and even then? I don't think I've ever actually gone as far as I could go with it...I think I have the potential to be much, much, much worse with what I say but always, no matter what, there's a limit there I won't let myself pass, even though there's been more than a few times where some people deserved that (and then some).

Then you have the people who are that way because they derive pleasure out of it, and just get off on trying to hurt people even if they haven't done anything to them...which is probably a Neptune issue (lack of empathy) working in tandem with an afflicted Saturn, Pluto, and even Jupiter. I say Jupiter because if Jupiter is your sense of right and wrong and it's afflicted, then obviously...you see where I'm going with that.

I've noticed something else also in recent years, which is that, people with heavily afflicted outers can turn into real monsters *if* they were also abused as children. It's like a recipe for disaster. There needs to be that innate potential (as indicated by the aspect - something like Mars square Pluto) combined with some sort of childhood abuse or trauma. It's like a stick of dynamite, and the abuse lights the fuse.

Am I saying every single person with Mars square Pluto or Mars square Jupiter or Saturn that was abused as a child is this way? No, but I believe it's unfortunately rare that you won't find one that isn't. Because when you combine that level of trauma with that potential for anger...you'll be hard pressed to find someone that can transmute that kinda energy and be a positive individual, it takes a level of maturity and self-awareness that most people don't possess. So I think nine times out of ten, people with those experiences and those aspects, turn predatory towards others in one way or another themselves, and wind up being really nasty pieces of work. I've seen this theory bear itself out enough times unfortunately that I'm actually at the point where if I see a hard aspect like that in a chart and the person gives me the impression there was possibly abuse in their past...I steer clear of them.

---

posted January 09, 2013 12:09 PM            

Same goes for Merc-Saturn which I noticed someone here suggested. I definitely would not say Saturn aspects to Mercury can make one mean. Many people who have had benevolent souls, from Lincoln to Einstein, had a prominent Merc-Saturn aspect. This aspect can merely make one seem inhibited to speak or express thoughts, it might make one speak eloquently but not as frequently, and say things maturely and to the point. Again, this wizened straightforwardness can offend more sensitive people, but these people can be kind. They just don't mince words. Sometimes yes, it can make what they say awkward or a little offensive... but to me, these people don't strike me as 'mean'.

Now, some things that can definitely make one combative, quarrelsome, or difficult to get along with, in my experience:

1. Mars-Mercury aspects, especially when one of these rules the ASC or Descendant

2. Uranus in the 7th opposite the ASC

3. Uranus square the ASC in Scorpio or, Uranus-ASC square with Scorpio influences throughout the chart can make one seem magnetic and unusual but difficult to approach and even callous

4. Moon-Saturn harsh aspect. This is a big one for me. This is one of the few Saturn aspects that I have found to cause a lot of trouble in making someone actually seem 'mean'. Why? Because the Moon is a much more sensitive point to receive Saturn int terms of likability vs. Mercury and sometimes the ASC. Even those with Saturn-ASC can still be well-liked and sociable if they have a good chart rulers and a well-placed, well-aspected Moon. But from my experience, those with even positive Saturn-Moon aspects can come off as aloof and distant emotionally which can be hard to deal with. The opp. and square can cause some real emotional callousness on the outside, but shows that the person probably is very emotional but can't let themselves express it...

posted January 09, 2013 12:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:

Same goes for Merc-Saturn which I noticed someone here suggested. I definitely would not say Saturn aspects to Mercury can make one mean. Many people who have had benevolent souls, from Lincoln to Einstein, had a prominent Merc-Saturn aspect. This aspect can merely make one seem inhibited to speak or express thoughts, it might make one speak eloquently but not as frequently, and say things maturely and to the point. Again, this wizened straightforwardness can offend more sensitive people, but these people can be kind. They just don't mince words. Sometimes yes, it can make what they say awkward or a little offensive... but to me, these people don't strike me as 'mean'.

Now, some things that can definitely make one combative, quarrelsome, or difficult to get along with, in my experience:

1. Mars-Mercury aspects, especially when one of these rules the ASC or Descendant

---

posted January 09, 2013 01:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by stellar_moon:
I have both of these placements...Saturn and Mars in scorp square Merc Leo....
They are pretty difficult in respect to being able to communicate effectively. I censor myself often. I also, have Bruxism which is night time teeth grinding...as if there are things i need to say but dont so it comes out in my subconscious. I also have "confusional arousals" as a sleep disorder. sometimes ill be asleep but standing up and yelling and swearing (mars square mercury)but i dont remember. I wake myself up with the yelling but dont remember the nasty things Ive said. My dad does that too...I feel bad because my son has witnessed it. Im going to see a specialist today about the Bruxsim.
I wonder if there is anything in my chart that might explain why these energies play out a lot during my subconscious state.

---

Yes, these aspects more indicate difficulty in communication vs. being a mean person. The way you speak might seem mean but it doesn't indicate you have mean tendencies within. Often people with these aspects will have flawed communicative abilities but be very kind otherwise.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all these problems. I have Mercury square Mars too. I have my Mars in the 8th and it's almost in Leo. Mercury is in Scorpio. Mine manifests more like thinking about death as an escape, or writing horror stories... I also suffer from intense aggression issues and have a horrible mouth. My Mars trines Pluto too which adds to this.

posted January 09, 2013 01:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jessica2407:
I have mercury conjunction saturn

I can be mean, but am not a mean person..

---