posted March 03, 2013 02:24 AM            

Look at venus-pluto aspects and how they resemble venus-mars in the obsessive desire aspect. But of course if it's only mars it'll lack that pluto depth. Mars does not resemble pluto, but pluto has some qualities of mars.

Or how about uranus afflictions and how they can be cold kind of like saturn afflictions. But with saturn there's that trademark comittment/staying with a relationship out of duty tendency of capricorn. Aquarius doesnt do that. So how is it co-ruled by saturn? Aquarius leaves a relationship when it pleases. While capricorn stays out of duty, while sometimes squeezing the happiness out of you with too much criticism/demands/lack of emotion. That is so saturn. But if aquas are co-ruled by saturn how come they dont do that at all ever? But rather make you feel liberated renewed excited and happy to be with them, feelings typical of uranus influence in synastry/composite? While sometimes leaving u feeling insecure bc they need their space, yes. But they dont criticize u or squeeze the happiness out of you like saturn/capricorn.

posted March 03, 2013 02:47 AM            

Having the sign ruler in the 1st is almost the same thing as having that sign on the ascendant, as far as appearance, personality, and attitude goes. Look at how astro.com describes both as giving a person the same qualities: http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtpt21_e.htm

posted March 03, 2013 02:59 AM            

Dont think i know one pisces who is self-confident. That seems so much more like a sagittarian thing.

Maybe neptune just shares a lot of the qualities of jupiter, without the overconfidence, hyperenergeticness and impulsiveness. Not to mention bluntness :P Mercury conjunct jupiter here. Also I feel jupiter can be arrogant and holier than thou (think mercury in sag or natal sun opp jupiter with their tendency to preach)....sags can be like that but pisces are accepting and not arrogant at all

Remember that jupiter and neptune both symbolize idealism. (As well as excess and waste) --both qualities of both pisces and sag. If u dont agree neptune symbolizes excess and waste what about pisces' or neptunian people's excessive dreaming, lack of realism, and drug use

"yet Neptune is not the only mischief maker when it comes to addiction problems, ... The other planet involved with addiction and substance abuse is Jupiter." http://www.squidoo.com/AstrologyChartAspectsPlanetsinAddiction

posted March 03, 2013 03:26 AM            

"There tends to be tremendous ambition with Jupiter. There is a sense that, “I am so wonderful; I have to share it with everyone!” There is just so much to do and so much to give out (Saturn is also ambitious, but from a sense of lack, of never having enough; so he works hard to get more and more). People with Jupiter singletons tend to be part of the elite of whatever group or social strata they identify with as their community. This is a manifestation of aspiration toward superiority and a sense of inflatedness. The extreme of this is the Superiority Complex, and the psychopathology may be expressed as thinking oneself to be the Virgin Mary, Christ or Buddha. Jupiter is associated with the manic phase of the bipolar syndrome or manic-depression. The Superiority/Inferiority Complex is particularly common where there is a difficult aspect between Jupiter and Saturn, especially if both are singletons."
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/singletons/jupiter/jupiter.htm

posted March 03, 2013 03:55 AM            

Aries is driven to identify and establish self. He accomplishes this through the raw drive to overcome anything which challenges his trajectory, will, or cause (Mars). The world of Aries is an infinite, raw, and unforgiving beast endlessly challenging Aries to rise to the occasion and adapt. Aries's establishment of Self is the result of transformations brought about by the environmental challenges he overcomes (Pluto).

Scorpio's task is to experience and interact with, the true essence of all things. She accomplishes this by having emotions which penetrate with x-ray accuracy, beyond appearances and into the raw depth of the world around her. At the essence of Scorpio is the experience of unedited truth, the harshness of reality without filters (Pluto). This makes Scorpio's world an emotional battlefield. She is shaped by the challenges of her environment into a master tactician, constantly acquiring strategies for manipulating self and environment to mitigate/overcome the violence (in the sense of vehemence, ferocity, or fervor) she experiences (Mars).

posted March 03, 2013 04:28 AM            

Xiiro; do you think there might be 'reasons' for why a co-ruler might outrule the primary ruler? Does it just happen? Like if you look at a chart of a Pisces that is really active, silly, cheerful, and generally Jovian, with Jupiter ruling Pisces and it suddenly made more sense, is there a point where there's a default change and it's like "Well Jupiter's taking over, Neptune"? And why? Is there even a "default" or does Jupiter just rule Pisces sometimes because that's the way the cookie crumbled?

posted March 03, 2013 04:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Found something on the jupiter/saggie arrogance that I had felt was there:

"There tends to be tremendous ambition with Jupiter. There is a sense that, “I am so wonderful; I have to share it with everyone!” There is just so much to do and so much to give out (Saturn is also ambitious, but from a sense of lack, of never having enough; so he works hard to get more and more). People with Jupiter singletons tend to be part of the elite of whatever group or social strata they identify with as their community. This is a manifestation of aspiration toward superiority and a sense of inflatedness. The extreme of this is the Superiority Complex, and the psychopathology may be expressed as thinking oneself to be the Virgin Mary, Christ or Buddha. Jupiter is associated with the manic phase of the bipolar syndrome or manic-depression. The Superiority/Inferiority Complex is particularly common where there is a difficult aspect between Jupiter and Saturn, especially if both are singletons."
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/singletons/jupiter/jupiter.htm

I don't think pisces acts like that at all. Sounds like a saggie thing only.

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What the writer failed to mention (or quite possibly comprehend) is Jupiter believes everyone should be as impressed with their self as he is. Sure, a singleton or heavily aspected Jupiter could manifest as a superiority complex, but even those people believe others are just as capable of being superior people. Jupiter looks out and sees the world filled with gods; a vast sea of stars on their way to explode into super novae.

Jupiter manifests in Pisces by instilling her with the understanding that even the meek and insignificant have potential to be great. Another less commonly discussed feature of Pisces is their endless emotional endurance. You can whip and whip and whip a Pisces until they are black and blue, but they will endure it to death. If they feel there is a reason to endure a trial, they rarely question their ability to take it. This often manifests in Pisces relationships, as they will do anything for the people they love.

posted March 03, 2013 05:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Xiiro; do you think there might be 'reasons' for why a co-ruler might outrule the primary ruler? Does it just happen? Like if you look at a chart of a Pisces that is really active, silly, cheerful, and generally Jovian, with Jupiter ruling Pisces and it suddenly made more sense, is there a point where there's a default change and it's like "Well Jupiter's taking over, Neptune"? And why? Is there even a "default" or does Jupiter just rule Pisces sometimes because that's the way the cookie crumbled?

EDIT! I guess what got me wondering that is...my Pluto is in its own sign, while nothing really points to my Mars being more dominant (or perhaps it's the tight square to Mars...?). Yet I feel it is.

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I have seen charts where a person's Sun is so insignificantly referenced, that the person doesn't identify at all with either ruler. Some people assign different rulers depending on day or night birth times. This topic is a very fringe astrology one, because to a traditionalist there are no co-rulers.

I don't think there is a default threshold personally. Charts are fluid, just like people. One person's sensitivity is another person's tolerance and it takes a lot of study sometimes to estimate what those threshold are for each individual chart.

When it comes to Mars and Pluto you start to compare very overt and blatant energies with very covert and occluded energies. Pluto is intense and its results may be undeniable, but it does all its work in very deep places. Having such strong emphasis on both extremes often results in the creation of two personalities. A solid persona and shadow one. The solid personality is the one everyone interacts with, including your self. While the shadow personality works on an almost autonomic level.

You are still young and there is a lot more of your personality to discover. I know that sounds a bit presumptuous, but you and I both have similar energies and it's something I experienced. For me, the fire and earth in my chart created a very well established solid persona, but it took me may years to get a handle on the part of myself that was running around and rearranging furniture while I slept. Being a very introspective person, I would see the results of my shadow self, but didn't really know how to find it. Even today it's an active learning experience.

I see a rich Pluto in you, but I agree, at least right now, you are much more Leonine and Martian. You should check out your annual progressed charts from birth to now. It can help put into perspective how your learning experiences have shaped your view of your natal chart. Something else to consider, the last time Pluto was in Scorpio was in 1736 (which was back when Scorpio was officially ruled by Mars). All the stereotypical harshness of Pluto could completely smooth out when it gets back home. I know having Pluto in Libra feels very different than what you normally read about Pluto. Everything is less obsessive and severe; more just and pretty. =)

posted March 03, 2013 05:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
But jupiter is optimism and self confidence.

Dont think i know one pisces who is self-confident. That seems so much more like a sagittarian thing.

Maybe neptune just shares a lot of the qualities of jupiter, without the overconfidence, hyperenergeticness and impulsiveness. Not to mention bluntness :P Mercury conjunct jupiter here. Also I feel jupiter can be arrogant and holier than thou (think mercury in sag or natal sun opp jupiter with their tendency to preach)....sags can be like that but pisces are accepting and not arrogant at all

Remember that jupiter and neptune both symbolize idealism. (As well as excess and waste) --both qualities of both pisces and sag. If u dont agree neptune symbolizes excess and waste what about pisces' or neptunian people's excessive dreaming, lack of realism, and drug use

"yet Neptune is not the only mischief maker when it comes to addiction problems, ... The other planet involved with addiction and substance abuse is Jupiter." http://www.squidoo.com/AstrologyChartAspectsPlanetsinAddiction

"Indulgence, or over-indulgence, in food, wine, drugs, and good times are some of the dangers that lurk in Jupiter's" http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/singletons/jupiter/jupiter.htm

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I'm a self-confident Pisces
It's taken time and learning to treat myself as well as I treat others, but nobody could convince me I'm anything less than freaking awesome anymore... Their loss if they don't see it

I do however, have Jupiter in Pisces in my 8H.

And Sagittarius is intercepted in my 5th house, where my Mars/Uranus are conjunct and I think this is where my inner fire comes from. I'm so very passionate about the things/people that I love, and I think Jupiter in the 8th makes me constantly seek the truth about the things I believe, so, I'm a pusher..in the words of "Mean Girls" lol.
I can't tell if I feel their (Neptune/Jupiter) effects directly on my sun separately though.

posted March 03, 2013 05:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Aquarius doesnt do that. So how is it co-ruled by saturn? Aquarius leaves a relationship when it pleases.

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I think that is an astrological misconception for the most part. AT least I have not noticed that, though I have noticed URANUS acting that way, but not Aquarius in general.
Aquarius is not only co-ruled by Saturn, but is a fixed sign. Since it is also an Air sign, his fixed-ness is mostly focused on mental things.
Aquarians can be endlessly stubborn, and it comes down to what they THINK.
If they think the relationship is worth it, they can be endlessly devoted and maintaining it or clinging to it just like any Saturnian person.
To be honest especially the Aquarian men I have met tend to really hold on to their relationships for better or worse (though of course often they will have strong Saturnian placements as well; however out of the head I remember two Aqua-girls with heavy stellium in Aqua, including Sun, Moon, Venus and MErcury in both cases, who had very lasting relationships, and stayed long past the relationship`s selldate.They didn`t have any Cappy placement or strong Saturn; not even Scorpio or Taurus or Libra - with that much Aqua there was not much room for any other sign in the personal signs. lol)

However, if Aqua thinks the relationship is NOT worth it, nothing will keep them back.
Whatever they do, it is always to their OWN terms. Maybe that is the difference to Capricorn. Aquarius makes his own set of rules, and that is his guiding light.

posted March 03, 2013 06:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Dont think i know one pisces who is self-confident. That seems so much more like a sagittarian thing.

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posted March 03, 2013 06:28 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Or how about uranus afflictions and how they can be cold kind of like saturn afflictions. But with saturn there's that trademark comittment/staying with a relationship out of duty tendency of capricorn. Aquarius doesnt do that. So how is it co-ruled by saturn? Aquarius leaves a relationship when it pleases. While capricorn stays out of duty, while sometimes squeezing the happiness out of you with too much criticism/demands/lack of emotion. That is so saturn. But if aquas are co-ruled by saturn how come they dont do that at all ever? But rather make you feel liberated renewed excited and happy to be with them, feelings typical of uranus influence in synastry/composite? While sometimes leaving u feeling insecure bc they need their space, yes. But they dont criticize u or squeeze the happiness out of you like saturn/capricorn.

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I most definitely believe in co-rulers, especially with your example of Aqua.. Both because of my own Aqua Venus who needs freedom and space and seeks out the weird "rebel" intellectual, but once I find someone I'm really interested in... I'm definitely fixed and committed. Aquarius is fixed after all. But also because of my tendency to attract/be attracted to Aqua placements.. (they land in my 8th house)

And maybe you haven't seen it personally but Aquarius will definitely stay in an unsatisfactory situation out of duty but also make plenty of demands of their own. That is their dual nature, they won't follow the rules necessarily but they will make sure you play by theirs.

As far as synastry/composite goes, I'm a Cap sun and had very strong both Saturn and Uranus with an Aqua Sun and let me tell you Saturn won out overall but it was a constant tug of war with Uranus as well lol...

If you're really interested, I don't really talk much about this relationship but I'd definitely be willing to post synastry/composite with this person because it really is relevant to your OP lol

posted March 03, 2013 12:29 PM            

Xiiro, the reason why pisces are wiling to do anything for those they love aka are self-sacrificial, is not Jupiter, but Neptune. Hello, Neptune rules self-sacrifice?

posted March 03, 2013 12:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
I know plenty of pisces dominants that are not escapists or have typical neptunian attributes.....
A lot them are very conventional, cheer leaders, football players all types of athletes. I remember more of the popular kids in my school were pisces.
Do you know many marital artists have mars in pisces. Because the energy of jupiter and neptune that gives focus and strength.

Jupiter is also very powerful in pisces because rules it, so I don't how you can discredit that..

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posted March 03, 2013 01:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
The only convincing reply I've gotten so far...

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posted March 03, 2013 03:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
Xiiro, the reason why pisces are wiling to do anything for those they love aka are self-sacrificial, is not Jupiter, but Neptune. Hello, Neptune rules self-sacrifice?

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I'm not debating that Pisces is geared toward unconditional love, but Neptune is not what gives Pisces the bravery to endure and eventually sacrifice. Neptune is just as capable of pretending nothing is wrong, or running and hiding from a bad situation, as loving something unconditionally. It drives the "with the stream" fish in the Piscean duality, which runs away from discomfort or challenge and basks in effortlessness. The "against the stream" fish understands challenge and strife result in evolution and the uplifting of self/others. This is the Jovian fish.

Jupiter instills its children with a sense of invulnerability (among other things), or more precisely put, a fundamental comprehension of our immortal nature. There is a very "capable of overcoming" side to Pisces that is similar to Sagittarius. Pisces however, tends to be more secretive with it as they prefer to be underestimated and later shine.

This is why Sag jumps off cliffs and dives to the bottom of the ocean, because nothing inside tells them they can't do it. It is the same reason Pisces will throw their self between a bullet and a loved one, because when they have a cause (like loving someone) nothing inside them tells them they can't do anything. Of course Pisces is going to manifest with MORE Neptunian traits, but the Jupiter is definitely in there.