posted March 16, 2013 11:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Interestingly most people with Asperger's whom I've engaged with seem to take their own feelings very seriously.

Typically people with Asperger's have a weak sense of empathy, owing to a lack of electrical stimulation in the part of the brain that generates empathy. This makes it difficult for them to sense how others are feeling and react to subtler forms of communication, which women often use. It's not game playing for most women, it's just a quieter way of conveying things, and empathy is often the key that unlocks the meaning.

There's nothing to loathe about it. If you can just be okay with others being different from yourself, you should be fine.

---

posted March 16, 2013 12:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
That is one of the biggest misconceptions about aspergers there is. We do have empathy but we express it in different ways. failing to see nebulous and vague signals isnt a lack of empathy, heck most people have trouble picking up on them. If you are angry with me passive aggressively slamming doors and cabinets wont get the message across to me all it will do is annoy me and make me think"geeze.. wtf is her problem?"I would know you were angry, but i wouldnt know you were angry at me,how could i? Now ,if you were to come to me and tell me you were angry at me and explain why I would have "empathy". To be honest I have read extensively on the subject of nonverbal communication and have tried to be mindful of it and use it and in my experience it has little to no value. the problem with nonverbal communication is people can fake it very effectively, people fake smiles all the dang time and they can also fake sadness to get your sympathy.Prejudging people based on "nonverbal communication" is very shallow in my opinion. I have been written off as an a-hole or creep because i'm not smiley and flamboyant 1,000 times and its ridiculous.If I had written people off on first impressions I wouldnt have met one of my best friends. I still remember when he moved into the apartments we lived in. If i were to judge him by his body language I would have thought he was angry and anti-social, but that would have been wrong, he is actually one of the friendliest and funniest guys you could ever hope to meet if you actually talk to him. But most people (especially women) would write him off as an a-hole/creep before they ever talk to him and thats a shame. The biggest pitfall of relying on nonverbal communication is its all based off of assumptions.You assume the guy smiling is a nice guy even though he may be a serial rapist and you write off the guy who looks stern/mean even though he may have just donated a kidney to save a little boy's life.The bottom line is you cant know somebody until you have talked to them and have heard their story. Heck my mom still cant read me. She still assumes i'm upset if i dont smile after living with me for 20+ years,this is just more evidence that nonverbal communication is mostly bs(imo).I'm of the opinion that open/honest communication is the best route to go and people would save themselves alot of misunderstandings and frustration by doing the same.

---

^ ^ ^

Ugh. My mom's angry all the time, so I just ask her if she's mad at me all the time. And she yells a lot when she's mad at anything. Like, she yells over the smallest, stupidest **** . So because I can't trust her nonverbal communication I just come out and ask to save time.

Actually, though, I'm quite lucky and have been able to pick up on a lot of nonverbal stuff. BUT! Not anger or sadness usually, and that's pretty important stuff. Also, just weird things with strangers is difficult to understand. It's hard for me to tell how, like, a cashier is feeling or something like that, unless they make strong and obvious facial expressions.

posted March 16, 2013 12:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
That is one of the biggest misconceptions about aspergers there is. We do have empathy but we express it in different ways.

---

Will you allow that you express it in a way that might not get across to non-Aspies, hence the reigning "misconception"?

I saw this show that made a convincing case for Aspies truly lacking empathy~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoxE8_1eeWk

And the Aspie girl my daughter is friends with had to be trained to ask questions that normally people will ask, based on empathy. When my daughter tripped and hurt herself, the Aspie walked on like nothing happened until her mother called her back and reminded her, "You should ask if she's okay."

I'm not making this stuff up to be mean or annoy you. It's a real symptom of Asperger's.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
failing to see nebulous and vague signals isnt a lack of empathy, heck most people have trouble picking up on them.

---

I see a difference between subtle (the word I used) and nebulous or vague, but I suppose it's a matter of positive versus negative connotation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
If you are angry with me passive aggressively slamming doors and cabinets wont get the message across to me all it will do is annoy me and make me think"geeze.
wtf is her problem?" I would know you were angry, but i wouldnt know you were angry at me,how could i?

---

This kind of thing happens, true, but it's not the kind of communication failure I was talking about.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Now ,if you were to come to me and tell me you were angry at me and explain why I would have "empathy".

---

Would you, or would you get defensive and say that my reasoning is invalid for XYZ reason? Because that's how most people respond to anger.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
To be honest I have read extensively on the subject of nonverbal communication and have tried to be mindful of it and use it and in my experience it has little to no value.

---

That doesn't mean it has no value for others. That's my whole point. Some people rely heavily on body language, gestures, and "vibes"in their interactions. I'm one of them...these are the cues I follow.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
the problem with nonverbal communication is people can fake it very effectively, people fake smiles all the dang time and they can also fake sadness to get your sympathy.

---

The problem is when people aren't perceptive enough to sniff out fakeness.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Prejudging people based on "nonverbal communication" is very shallow in my opinion. I have been written off as an a-hole or creep because i'm not smiley and flamboyant 1,000 times and its ridiculous.

---

I agree it can be shallow, but it can also be life saving, as when I decide to err on the side of caution and not sit next to a dude who is inaudibly seething about something on the bus.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
But most people (especially women) would write him off as an a-hole/creep before they ever talk to him and thats a shame.

---

Especially women? You seem to have written off most women there as a-hole/creeps, which is also a shame.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
The biggest pitfall of relying on nonverbal communication is its all based off of assumptions.

---

There is much more to it that that, it's a whole other language, and you can make educated guesses based on experience.

Malcolm Gladwell's book Blink talks about how scientists have decoded the emotional language in facial cues; some people have done the same thing more or less outside the lab; it's a matter of perception and sensitivity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
You assume the guy smiling is a nice guy even though he may be a serial rapist and you write off the guy who looks stern/mean even though he may have just donated a kidney to save a little boy's life.

---

Not me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
The bottom line is you cant know somebody until you have talked to them and have heard their story.

---

That's how you feel about it and I agree the story is important. But I also know that I can't know someone really until I meet them in person and observe them physically.

posted March 16, 2013 01:25 PM            

I saw this show that made a convincing case for Aspies truly lacking empathy~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoxE8_1eeWk

And the Aspie girl my daughter is friends with had to be trained to ask questions that normally people will ask, based on empathy. When my daughter tripped and hurt herself, the Aspie walked on like nothing happened until her mother called her back and reminded her, "You should ask if she's okay."

I'm not making this stuff up to be mean or annoy you. It's a real symptom of Asperger's.

posted March 16, 2013 08:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
no, that is not a symptom of aspergers.

---

quote:

---

Asperger's Syndrome-Symptoms during childhood:

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.

Dislike any changes in routines.

Appear to lack empathy.

Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others' speech. So your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. And his or her speech may be flat and hard to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.

---

bold mine http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms

quote:

---

Asperger's syndrome symptoms include:

Appearing not to understand, empathize with or be sensitive to others' feelings.

---

https://www.mayoclinic.com/health/aspergers-syndrome/DS00551/DSECTION=symptoms

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
believe it or not we are individuals and have our own unique personalities.

---

Granted. And maybe someday you will believe the same thing about women. But the diagnosis of Asperger's is mainly based on one's social behavior and reading of social cues. So if you have that diagnosis your personality probably has something in common with other Aspies.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I was only 3 when i did that, does that sound like a person who lacks empathy?

---

posted March 16, 2013 09:10 PM            

A lot of them are actually kind and gentle souls.
Thats the sad thing they're just misunderstood.

posted March 16, 2013 09:24 PM            

Not saying they are unkind, not trying to trash anyone...but sometimes the appearance of a lack of empathy corresponds to an actual lack of feeling, a lack of understanding where other people are coming from.

posted March 16, 2013 09:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerosene:
I agree aspies have emotions but they're unable to express them to others, this does not mean they consciously treat people like **** ...
Thats just a bad person ahahaha

A lot of them are actually kind and gentle souls.
Thats the sad thing they're just misunderstood.

---

posted March 16, 2013 09:57 PM            

The Aspies I've known, and whose memoirs or articles I've read, are all very capable of articulating where they are coming from. But they may have trouble caring about where others are coming from, unless they "get" how the other people are communicating...and it's usually a very blunt and direct mode of communication the Aspies strongly prefer.

All I'm saying is, just because someone doesn't like communicating that way, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them either.

posted March 16, 2013 10:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
@YTA:

The Aspies I've known, and whose memoirs or articles I've read, are all very capable of articulating where they are coming from. But they may have trouble caring about where others are coming from, unless they "get" how the other people are communicating...and it's usually a very blunt and direct mode of communication the Aspies strongly prefer.

All I'm saying is, just because someone doesn't like communicating that way, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them either.

You and aquaguy seem quick to put down anyone who can't match your frankness.

---

posted March 16, 2013 10:28 PM            

As one who hopes to go off grid herself, I marvel at how too opposite problems can have a similar solution... I socialize mostly online because I'm hypersensitive (Pisces moon/Rabbit/whatever), and in real life people's vibes and emotional issues start clinging to me like heavy drapes after a while.

posted March 16, 2013 10:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i have come to see "normal" people as extremely hypocritical because they demand that i cast aside a the things that make me who am i am and do things i dont want to do yet they call me unreasonable and insensitive. A good example is my mom still tries to get me to eat foods that are utterly offensive to me. one of the things common among aspies is we have very sensitive senses (sight,smell,sound,taste) and certain things can be utter torture for us. the smell of certain foods can literally make me physically ill yet my mom still guilt trips me and views me as stubborn/immature for having that reaction. she insists i'm just being narrow minded and an a-hole even though its well documented that lots of aspies have the same problem. she has no empathy for me when it comes to things like this and doesnt seem to care or understand that i didnt choose to be born with a hypersensitive sense of taste/smell, she insists on badgering and guilt tripping me about it. she has caused so much strife for no reason and refuses to just let me be.

---

posted March 18, 2013 04:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Lastly, swampys...on your blog, you said "I'm about to start calling all those girls ***** and telling them all the reasons they should just kill themselves"...

That is just not okay and you should stop and re-evaluate yourself and your life.

---

posted March 18, 2013 04:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hanneli:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
[b]Lastly, swampys...on your blog, you said "I'm about to start calling all those girls ***** and telling them all the reasons they should just kill themselves"...

That is just not okay and you should stop and re-evaluate yourself and your life.

---

posted March 22, 2013 09:43 AM            

Faith, ugh, it's awful to feel so overwhelmed. Sorry you go online for that. Does it give you a bit of a break from real life? Message boards do give you the chance to step away from the conversation and go back when you feel less overwhelmed. If it helps, from what I've seen of you, you come across as very level-headed!

Okay, now the real topic. I have PDD-NOS, which is a form of autism, but it falls into the misc. category. It looks like autism but I don't have all the traits for Aspergers. Most of you don't really know me, so I don't know if I've ever given off that vibe. (I had to look this up.) For me, I've grown into it so much I don't really think of it anymore.

So here's the POV of someone who is like that, and has grown up around other Aspies/PDD-NOS auties (my dad has it, so do my three rl friends and I attended special education as a teenager). I'll have to disagree on the "no empathy", but I do agree on that it doesn't show... unless pointed out. A lot of us are so stuck into our own heads that it doesn't really occur to us that we should check on other people. Especially people with heavy air would have some trouble getting out of their safe space - their heads. Security is so important to us. I've learned to pay close attention to and pick up on it, again, only because people around me kept pointing it out. If any of you seem a bit callous, I don't think it always has to be like that. But if you want to put yourself out there, you'll have to leave your safe space, which can be very scary. Your giving up the only thing you know about. Kind of like walking away from your South Node (using astro here).

Have any of you known it for just a short time? It really feels like me when I just found out. If so, have you thought about seeking out an Aspergers support group in real life? I know there's tons of information on the internet or in books, but I think some practical experience would help a lot. Getting to talk to people like you, who are also still trying to get used to it would make you feel understood - which your posts are asking for. Everyone needs a little support and someone who lets you talk now and then, and this way you would get what you need. With you guys and your horrible childhood, you probably grew up around people who didn't want to understand.

Oh and in my opinion, you can't really tell by a chart whether someone might be an Aspie. It's in the subtleties - like the eyecontact and body language like Faith said - not in the bigger things. That's why a lot of them usually feel so alone and on the outside: it's not visible, and so people think you're just making excuses. I don't know if my chart gives any clues.

Another thing uhm... if you feel like you can't talk about it yet, how about writing it down? Some freewriting to get a grasp on how it plays out for you. No textbook stuff, just write what pops into your head. You can organise later. Like which specific foods make you sick, etc. (I have it with sound and bright lights. Triggers my migraines, too.) Then when somebody asks, you may be able to explain it even if it's from out of nowhere.

So please think about it. I think you guys would be a lot happier if you found someone you can talk to.

Maybe your parents aren't trying to understand because they feel guilty for not having seen anything. They have to admit that, and that's a tough job, especially if it took so long for you to find out. It's hard for you guys because they're taking it out on you, so please remember it's their problem. I know it doesn't make you feel better, but I thought I'd say it.

Hope you're not too weirded out by someone you barely know joining here. If anyone else has already suggested this, sorry for that. You're not alone and there's some people on this board who obviously care - why else would they keep replying to your threads?

posted March 22, 2013 11:20 PM            

I shouldn't have said that "typically" Aspies have no empathy. It was a misunderstanding on my part.

I never would have guessed you are on the autistic spectrum from your writing, although your intelligence and attention to detail, now that you mention it, is indicative I think. And it's part of the reason why I usually enjoy talking to Aspies, though sometimes I feel a bit mentally insecure around them.

You come across as very interested, selfless, and caring. Right from the start I thought you were a great person, and I really appreciated your interest in how I perceived your country.

I think your post here was for aquaguy and YTA, but I wanted to make sure you got a response, after you took the time to be so considerate and helpful.