posted April 02, 2013 12:37 AM
I missed the question, what was it now?Are they masculine or are they portrayed as violent or are they as masculine or violent as you've found them to be portrayed?
Again, the element is what is feminine, not the natal. A person can have more feminine or masculine elemental energy in their natal - but they are not purely either or. Astrology doesn't function like this... as I said in KQ's topic before, it is a modern nuisance... yes, a nuisance! The elemental alignment with these energies was not meant to be used to genderlock signs. It is meant to give clarity on the balance of the powers they represent and how that power is expressed by those individuals who have them, and where they are being projected.
I'm not a Cancer but most of my friends are, although they are more women than men.
My oldest nephew is a Cancer Sun - he's was always a ham, photogenic, a bit moody (yes), a mama and nanna's boy (and I do find that a lot of the male Crustaceans that I've encountered do have attachments to their maternal figures), he's also into martial arts, has a bit of a temper (what 8 year old doesn't), and he's imaginative, and loves to look good (it's adorable to seeing him make sure his hair is just right before school). I use this example because it is a very pure format to judge from, he's an innocent child not changed by many transits and progressions, he's not tainted by society and all of its demands yet. This is a very pure expression of the energies in his chart, especially his Sun. So, does this make him "masculine" or "feminine"? NEITHER - it makes him consistent with what is being projected through his chart, and honestly, this is the normal expression of those energies (between his Sun, it's ruler, and his Cancer houses).
I also have two close (too close actually) relationships with a Cancer Sun and Cancer rising brothers. The Sun (by the age of 20) was and still is one of the most outwardly apathetic individuals I've ever met. They're both lean, yet muscular, they're both a bit attached to their mother (but in honesty - the Riser is far more attached). This too makes sense, his chart ruler is the Moon, he has Fire Moon (SAG) trine his Aries Sun. - So, while the Sun is much more passive emotionally, the Riser brother is prone to more moods and fits (nothing nearly as violent as you have me imagining with your summary of the perception of others you have detailed above though). The condition of a person's Sun sign is dependent on their ruler too (as well as any aspects they make), but the chart ruler also has to be taken into account. So someone with a Cancer Sun but Moon in Capricorn and rising anywhere else may be miles apart from a fellow Cancer Sun with Moon in (say) Sagittarius. And a non Cancer Sun with Cancer Rising and Moon in Pisces will be distinctly different from both the Suns above.
There are 12 houses each house is represented by a sign/element/planet both traditionally and natally - The Asc is the start of the natal but traditional order the Asc is Aries. - The wheel begins with masculine and ends in feminine element in alternating order preserving the balance. Everyone has 12 houses everyone has half feminine and half masculine energy to start with, only the Ascendant and placements will change that balance. The changed balance is then effected by transit, synastries, and progressions. That is part of the use for astrology to use these things to find balance in our lives or towards our life's purpose or whatever belief you have there. The tense aspects between the two energies in a chart have a purpose, and it isn't to give you a hard time for no reason... it is to condition you into a better person, to strengthen you, and push you towards something... now what that eventually is depends on your belief system for using astrology in the first place. If you are just into astrology for the purpose of nothing better than getting an idea of how your current relationship will go or why you are lacking in looks/personality/friends - then you aren't using the study how it was intended to be used and often aren't grasping the actual methods for determining those specific factors anyway. Which is frustrating and possibly insulting to the actual astrologers out there and to the work of those who gave us astrology. Astrology was created to give people a map of spiritual understanding with the universe, with life and their purpose here. Although it can be used to find many things and can be used effectively and accurately by those who take the time to actually study it as more than a casual hobby, it is often misused and misinterpreted by those who are not serious about it or use it more for entertainment than a tool. It is a tool, and while it may not be a science it is based on scientific concepts and designs. Each astrology has actual formulas and principles borrowed from both ancient and modern worlds and wisdom. The men and women back in the 11th century weren't concerned with "how manly the sheep is' nor did they say, "look at that crab, it's such a girly creature"! If you think that you need to study more.
Pretty much... I'd say you just need to study more and get your head out of the POPULAR this/that pages/arts -
And comparing astrological signs to fictional characters created by a 30 something Japanese mangaka who is noted for his work in creating "masculine" characters in ALL of his works over the years - is NOT the place to go looking for examples of actual sign traits. I thank you!
MASAMI KURUMADA MANGAKA
I can find you several articles on his works in Japanese if you'd like as well. The creator of this manga is renowned for making strong male characters - this is his niche and it is EXTREMELY traditional with male figures in Japanese literature going back to the earliest periods of such! (I have been a student of Japanese literature for several years now. And, still want to go back to school for EAS!) -
As for the number of characters in not just Kurumada's work but MANY others - that are CANCER signed - that is simple; and they are not ALL portrayed the same - Cancer is actually a VERY popular sign in the far East, the most popular sign in MANGA/ANIME - because of cultural and modern ties - The Moon is associated with the rabbit in Japan, and the Moon is associated with Tsukuyomi no Mikoto, brother of Ohirume no muchi no kami (Amaterasu). The pantheon of deities in ancient Japanese (Shinto) system are ruled by sky/land gods and sun/moon and wave/mountain and underworld. This is a very different religion than those in the West, and has very unique mythology surrounding it. Early folklore in Japan has more in common with Australian Aboriginal mythology and later Chinese mythology and later still Indian mythology than anything else - they use the Chinese astrological system, but have also preserved and incorporated their own lore into it~ They do the same with Western astrology today - the Crab = the Rabbit.
Cancer is a threefold sign itself - the crustacean, the wolf/wild dog, the hare/rabbit - are each symbolic of the moon sign - Also, Pisces has multiple animal symbols related to it, because of the mythology and shift of the poles, expansion of civilizations - there is Cetus (sometimes whale and sometimes frogs), Pisces, and often Cygnus. Scorpio is represented often by the Arachnid/Scorpion (half-Scorpion men/women), the falcon/buzzard (Horus/Isis -mind you this has more to do with constellations sometimes - here we have the southern cross), and despite the "Phoenix" being given to it today - the other symbol was originally the serpent (because the shedding of skin/Serpens, transformation). Each Water sign details what water symbolizes to the cultures who used this astrology and shared often quite similar mythology.
There are many such totems ingrained in astrology throughout history - and astrological signs are themselves taken from constellations taken from mythology. You seem to think that just because Taurus is a Bull, and Aries is a Ram and Leo is a Lion and Scorpio is a big scary Scorpion... Oo; that they are "MORE" of this or that~
No... the symbolic use of Taurus as a bull for example is one of the eldest and most universal - it even began the zodiac wheel for different civilizations - The bull was associated with the ultimate feminine power, unleashed by her, according to early Mesopotamian legends. The Bull, the Star, the Queen of Heaven. I always find it amusing when everyone says Algol is always a cursed star - sure it is when you are associating it with all the patriarchal societies who feared women having power, returning to power and what that meant - the entire story of not just Perseus and Medusa but of all Gorgones illustrates that power and how feared they were, the story of the Pleiades in most myths also shows what eventually became of the female power wielders. The Bull is the eternal guardian of divine feminine and Scorpionids the eternal guardian of divine masculine. They are cosmic guardian signs, and possibly the least engendered of the wheel.
Aquarius - also has very different mythologies at play, symbolic animals... at the front we have this "water bearer" - and we have the Eagle (or other sea birds), Aquarius is symbolic of sea and sky vs Capricorn symbol of earth and sea. The Water/Cup-bearing Aquarius is usually believed to go together with the eagle symbol - not apart. This is both Ganymedes and Zeus. Then there is the symbol of a Pegasus, legendary, powerful, winged horse, the most common and oldest symbol is water issuing forth either from flooding river/overflowing jar. (there is also a set of celestial dragons used for Aquarius and Leo, but that is more of blending from Eastern mythologies to Western, but the symbols should still be recognized)
Libra too has very interesting symbolism - although it is by itself a part of the symbolism for both Virgo before it and Scorpion after it. The symbolism through mythology attaches it to the owl and olive branch, or another constellation detail - the dove/crow & laurels. The scales have remained the most recognized and important, possibly having to do more with equinox (time) than the symbolism of the signs mythologies.
Anyway - the ancients have put a LOT of work into making these signs mean something, making them distinct, and finding the way they function, not to share that with just anyone either, but guard the wisdom for those who would use it properly and further their discoveries. Today we can get a lot of "fun" out of everything because they put this together for us. But, more and more we take it all less seriously and less seriously until it has no validity, and nothing is sacred anymore. We are so lucky to be able to go to a bookstore and pick up a book on astrology, page through it freely, just like that.. but, 2 centuries ago it was't that people all disbelieved it that they didn't know more about it, but that they feared it... today we have the opposite... people have no conscience for the tools of fallen civilizations, and no fear for what those tools can do, and for all that's happened... we have people now more than ever who completely disbelieve in any benefit of astrology. >.<;
I digress - you are looking at things far too superficially -
Even if Linda or any other professional astrologer says "____ sign is the most_____" - that is their personal opinion, and not a fact. And, the self-respecting astrologer does say "I believe" or "I find that" or "I think" something like that, before stating something like this... they are not speaking for everyone, they are speaking for themselves, and they know this. Linda did this while describing Capricorns as well, if I'm not mistaken. Using her personal experiences and saying that it came from those very clearly. Astrologers can do this, there's nothing wrong with that. They acknowledge to us that they are familiar with that from experience, so to help others recognize those things when encountering them as well, not to lock those in as stereotypes. It is those who interpret it as fact who are doing astrology the true disservice.
Anyway, I've had about as much of the gender role/genderlocking brouhaha as I can take lately. So I'll leave it at that... you take the most trivial mechanics out of the system and warp them into something they weren't meant to be. You need to study more, and familiarize with the actual depth, the philosophy, the science, and the mythological/cultural foundations of this study, instead of going in circles with misrepresentations of them time and time again, which is all I see you doing.
In closing there is no "MOST" in the signs. there is a "more likely" and there is a "more often"-aspect for things depending on placements, but there is no "MOST", only an individual can be "MOST" of something not an entire population of a sign. It doesn't work that way.
~ I wrote this all much earlier today - but my child shutdown my pc before I had the chance to post - I'll bump this thread and also link to your newest "Most" and "gender" specifying thread. But, I'm leaving it at that... hopefully you can get out of this shallow mindset and learn to incorporate astrological concepts into a more helpful and accurate outlet someday. But, I will refrain from posting in these from here on out. ^^
Good Evening/Morning~ tc
ps - using yahoo answers as a resource... *sigh* 
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γνωθι σεαυτόν
Lindaland
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posted April 01, 2013 09:38 PM
), whose gender energies do not conform as easily to society's ideals and thus are targets of others' irrational hostility stemming from their own gender-conformity insecurities. Break the cycle! Stop the insanity!