posted May 02, 2013 03:08 PM            

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Without putting too much examples, more leaders that shaped the destinies of countries tend to be Capricorn than any other signs after Pisces (and the Pisces who become leaders of nations tend to have Capricorn Moon or Ascendant and are often Capricorn Dominants) an Astrologer once told me.

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posted May 02, 2013 11:57 PM            

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Originally posted by mirage29:
SaturnineMoth
(I just found above-referenced thread, and just read this one.... What's up with all the "patriotism" talk?... Something going on?)

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no idea mirage~ <3

I give up, really. You can be as pragmatic and credible and concise as possible in responding to some folks.

There are very clear distinctions to being a patriotic person and being a nationalist. I tried to explain this without filling up pages and pages as though I were in class presenting some argument for political sciences, and I tried to tone things down to a elementary level for easy reading comprehension. I'd have just posted a page full of links, but I'd rather smack a stone with a wet rag and pray for rain than rely on anyone else to expand their minds when it is against their nature to receive information from any other source than their own, (fractured reasoning)...

~___~ hoping to conjure a storm out of thin air somehow makes more sense these days, no?

Especially in these threads... sorry, but it's true. I've spent more years studying subjects like this (astrology, mythology, archaeoastronomy, anthropology, archaeology, cultural diversities, philosophy, theology) and actually out there living than the OP has been alive. And, I know~ I'm still relatively young, and still a student. Every other acquaintance I have, if I mention them at all, hasn't been an online one, meaning... I've met many people and been many places. So that when someone is trying to share their experience or wisdom or theories with me, I will listen, I may not embrace everything, I may need time to ponder the efficiency or plausibility or nature of something they share... but, I will respect them and hear them out without malice or ignorance; ignorance being the worse of the two for them to resort to, given the green behind their ears is obviously showing.

I really wish I knew more of the Pisces crowd here at LL though... my faith in the purpose and workings of the Descendant have taken a serious blow. Every so often, I have to force myself to pause and remember how Moonfish and anonymidarkness are the complete antithesis to what I perceive in here, and then I feel a little more at peace with the cards I've been dealt (natally). But, of course, I best not be inflating what will no doubt be perceived by it to be a compliment to that delusional ego and emphasis on what nobody here can confirm is truly Scorpionic in their chart... otherwise it will be worn as a badge like in their other threads where someone's annoyance with them was taken as them having some enviable, hate-inducing, wicked, "different" (read: cool) personality from their supposed Ascendant. It's a discredit and shame for other Leo, Scorpio, Pisces though... even if I'm the only one bothered with it to this degree and speaking up, I'm not the only one bothered by it, of that I'm certain. And, I'm glad I'm not here enough to respond lately. lol But, since I am now... >.>; ;<.< Someone tell me the last time I made a league of references comparing /astrological/ stereotypes to /fictional/ characters or vis-a-vis~ and do let me know what level of naivete would allow for one to do so quite often (not to mention all that subjective, over-generalizing, stereotype embracing, only grasping, and barely so, the bare fundamentals of astrology at the same time making such matter-o-fact claims in their validity based only on "my own experience above all else" sensibility)? Oh, do tell...

But, yeah... enough virtual mud-slinging. I hate politics.

But, I will support the country that gave me the opportunities I had, the life I was given... there are a good 12 dozen or so that would have only made life more difficult (in some cases extremely so), where (especially women) those like me would have had far less opportunities. First world or third... whether you love or hate the government or figure anywhere in between is pointless when you don't understand the difference between a patriot and a nationalist and an absolute wingnut, all the same...

seeing things clearly (as a Capricorn or any other sign) means seeing what you have had that so many others have not (which if you live in USA, should be pretty obvious, but with the geographically-politically challenged individuals out there~ hmm... there are more than 190 countries right now, and an estimated 80+% are classified as developing, meaning they are between "third-second-world" trying to catch up to the progressed first world countries). I have had a lot, and I chose to be grateful, and give respect where it is due. It's simple as that really, end of story.

(it's usually given in estimate as being about 192-194 countries, depending on politics/region... it's usually given to be between 84-85% of the world now termed as "developing" where the term "third world" was usually used in the past. Many of the "would be" first world countries are actually pseudo- 2nd-3rd or 1st-3rd... so it is hard to classify them. But, USA is recognized as being wholly 1st world, "developed"... progressed~)

But, yes~ ^^; I don't get into things anymore mirage, unless I feel I can really help someone somehow or the post is directed at myself (by sign/degree/transit etcetcetc... of course!) Everything else is usually a waste of time, and apparently so are responding to threads that do "target" you for a personal response as well now, or so it would seem.

I suppose if I had a dick it would matter, but such is the way the OP thinks. Capricorn's need to have a dick to be patriotic. ya'okay, buddy... I get it. ^^
And, apparently patriotic means only sticking around in fair weather for your country and never feeling as though you owe it anything or could help it any. That's patriotism today, I'm guessing... if that's what you mean by patriotic then, no... I am not patriotic. lol

------------------- ~ ~ ~ ~
adding into this whole "leaders" analysis...
just looking at the big three here... where available (* = questionable accuracy)

*just* the big 3~ posting charts for everyone in each nation/background would take forever and a day... /leader/ (not given as good or bad~ but successful, tyrant or near do well... doesn't matter)... these are the few I had time to explore tonight~ very intriguing some of these people~ <3

aaron burr - aqua/aries/aqua
abdoulaye wade - gem/cap
abdullah badawi - sag/tau
abe lincoln - aqua/cap/aqua*
adolf hitler - tau/cap/lib
alexander hamilton - cap/vir/sag*
ariel sharon - pis/tau/aries
aung san suu kyi - gem/lib
fdr - aqua/cnc/vir*
fidel castro - leo/lib/gem*
franklin pierce - sag/leo/ari*
abdel gamar nasser - cap/aqua/sag
george washington - pis/cap/tau
henry kissinger - gem/lib/gem
ho chi minh - tau/tau/tau*
indira gandhi - sco/cap/leo
jacques chirac - sag/sag/aqua*
james buchanan - tau/cap/cnc
james k polk - sco/cnc/cap*
james monroe - tao/cap/aqua*
jawaharlal nehru - sco/leo/sco*
jfk - gem/vir/lib
john quincy adams - cnc/cap/leo*
john tyler - ari/vir/ari*
stalin - sag/lib/cap
kofi annan - ari/cnc
mahatma gandhi - lib/leo/lib*
mao zedong - cap/leo/cap*
magaret thatcher - lib/leo/sco
martin van buren - sag/sag/sag*
mikhail gorbechev - psc/leo/lib*
muhammed ali jinnah - cap/ari
nelson mandela - cnc/sco/sag
Queen Elizabeth II - tau/leo/cap
saddam hussein - tau/sag/gem
thomas jefferson - ari/sag/aqua
vladimir lenin - tau/aqua/sco
winston churchill - sag/leo/vir
yasser arafat - vir/tau/cnc
eleanor roosevelt - lib/cnc/sag
emmeline pankhurst - cnc/vir/aqua*
rosa parks - aqua/cap
margaret sanger - vir/leo/leo*
hillary clinton - sco/psc/leo
benezir bhutto - gem/lib
condoleezza rice - sco/cnc/aqua
queen rania - vir/vir
shirin ebadi - gem/leo

The list of female leaders is so short because well... let's face it, women have not yet had the same opportunity to take a leading role in their countries political arena.
history favours male leaders because women were kept away from the frontlines, and subjugated by prejudice and still are in many places today. ~___~

so just because you don't SEE~ the same number of women matching up to their male counterparts of any sign... shouldn't really be counted as emphasizing their lack of patriotism or leadership capability.

one thing one would note going through the charts and looking at the entire wheel of these celebrated/notorious leaders... the greatest and most successful and progressive rule came from those who had "splatter" charts (more or less, diversity)... many have two axis signs emphasized. (cardinal/mutable or fixed/cardinal). whereas some of the most notorious seem to have a single energy dominating all others... (saw quite a few fixed dominants with crazy neptune/pluto/angle contacts... enough to make one go... "hm") ^^;

there are also a few differences when trying to find even moderately successful in some form of global/national/political leadership among the women... that their signs do not seem to share the same pattern as the men. But, that could change, women have to adapt to get the same success.... for those same pathetic reasons as stated above and elsewhere on these boards. (sexism...)
so you will see a lot of women who have leo/gemini/aquarius are quite commonly recognized, (over the possible others that aren't yet being heard or taking the chance)...

(though actual research isn't as interesting as making blanket assumptions based on personal acquaintances and a tiny minority of complete strangers on the cyberweb who have almost no interest in political hogwash whatsoever in common, amirite, OP?!)

hmmmmm
I wish I could have found more on benezir bhutto... ~

posted May 03, 2013 09:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Niddi:
Also, I don't understand why your love has to be restricted to a certain land with certain people, I care about humanity altogether and this world as a whole. So that is my view as a cappy.

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posted May 03, 2013 04:49 PM            

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Originally posted by MorteImperator:
Why is there such a huge contrast between the male and females in regards to the concept of "Country and Nationalism"?

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I can't give you an astrological answer, but when I was 6 I was shunned by other girls my age in the neighborhood and had to play almost strictly with boys for 4 years, and after that I tended to have a foot in both Boy & Girl World, and they were different in many ways.

At that young age girls played games like "house" and even then we were being brainwashed to believe the entire purpose of our lives was to marry a man and raise children but asserting ourselves was discouraged (yet manipulation, especially by being pretty & charming, was encouraged even by adults), whereas boys played gun games (like I recall a Cold War game where boys would hide and "snipe" with toy guns at cars pretending they were Russian tanks), and they were raised early to not only be assertive in daily life but to be good soldiers, heroes who put their lives on the line. I've read somewhere that girls grow into women wondering if she can handle giving birth (and she must be ready for it) while guys grow into men wondering if they could die for their country (and encouraged to keep quiet if they don't think they can or would).

Even as we got older it remained the same for both in new ways. For example, relatives told me that it was "just as easy to fall in love with a rich guy as a poor guy" (the advice being hang around the rich as you'll be better off), which blends in so well with all the Disney we were raised on of marrying princes (who are seen as belonging to other countries, especially if you're raised in the Americas). That means domestic matters, including wealth, are much more important than nationalistic (and are ironically more practical in love than men when it comes to financial concerns, that is women are less likely to believe "all you need is love" than men). Of course if we're expected to leave our families to marry into another (and in movies like The Litter Mermaid the heroine even left her entire world to be with a man she didn't even know!) then what is leaving a country for another man (especially a "prince")?

posted May 03, 2013 08:14 PM            

I think Cap men are also naturally tough and competitive and thus seem almost ideally suited to join or at least be supportive of the military. Especially since the style of the military is so Cappy: perfect order and restraint. I wonder if for some of them, patriotism might just be a secondhand emotion with militarism or the whole idea of "fighting to defend one's values" being the real interest.

The only Cap guy I ever dated joined the Marines right out of high school and got a big USMC tattoo on his arm.