posted August 02, 2013 04:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The few times I did that (I think 2 times before in all my life. lol) it was only to thank someone for the great show and give a feedback to certain points.

But my friend, who is a dancer (nowadays semi-professional, but she has had her exam at the Royal academy of dance), once told me how imporant it is for a performer to get a feedback that is more than just blind applause. Something that tells them what exactly it was thy did well, and how she would never experience that as bothering (if the viewer who came to her was serious and thoughtful and respectful about it.)

Ironically he stated the very same thing in a n interview of recent years.

I thought this was an interesting point; I never had thought about it this way.
But I experienced it myself after writing a little theatre piece for church and later on for school and [b]my pupils performing it, and I realized that as nice as the applause was, the verbal feedback was more important; for the kids of course, but also realized that it was very important for me, having parents come up to me giving their opinion on certain aspects of the show, or even of the way I teach. [/B]

---

We're BOTH teachers. And I agree completely on the importance of clear specific feedback for a performer, especially when it's coming from someone who's knowledgeable. Hearing "I enjoyed your performance" or "You were amazing" is nice but "I was very impressed with your fluid control in that adagio movement" or "What a deeply moving soliloquy you delivered in the 2nd act" is SO much better!

posted August 02, 2013 04:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
We're BOTH teachers. And I agree completely on the importance of clear specific feedback for a performer, especially when it's coming from someone who's knowledgeable. Hearing "I enjoyed your performance" or "You were amazing" is nice but "I was very impressed with your fluid control in that adagio movement" or "What a deeply moving soliloquy you delivered in the 2nd act" is SO much better!

---

Exactly.

posted August 02, 2013 04:42 PM            

I've got a multi-subject credential and teach elementary school up through 6th grade. I'm actually working as a substitute teacher -- which makes perfect sense since I've got Uranus transiting my 6th house! I prefer to teach 4th, 5th, 6th where they're more independent but not TOO "big for their britches" yet. If I had to choose one subject to teach all day, I'd choose math -- that's my FAVORITE.

posted August 02, 2013 06:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The problem if you limit the rectification to this approach is that various statements of his could be the expression of very different planetary configurations.
I tried to keep that in mind. I've actually played with various possibilities, kind of an exercise to see what else could account for something. It feels like trying to pick a lock -- getting all the tumblers to work together.

But okay, show me what you`ve got (and then search his biography for some important events in his life )

---

Thank you!

Okay, here's what I'm working with:

Based on his date of birth, planetary placements between 12:01am and 11:59pm are: Sun Capricorn 19.48-20.49, Moon
Aires 12.15-25.25, Mercury Sagittarius 26.40-27.47, Venus Sagittarius 27.24-28.39, Mars Virgo 26.03-26.15, Jupiter Taurus
16.06R-16.06D-Jupiter went direct that day between 3-4am, Saturn Pisces 2.11-2.17, Uranus Virgo 14.39R-14.37R, Neptune Scorpio 19.33-19.34, Pluto Virgo 16.12R-16.11R, Chiron Pisces 15.09-15.11. North Node Gemini 22.39. He has no planets/known points in Cancer, Leo, Libra, or Aquarius. He's air void and very mutable. He's got a Grand Trine(s) between his Sun, Jupiter, Uranus/Pluto+Mars. With Neptune opposing Jupiter he's got a kite formation. If you include Chiron opposing his Uranus/Pluto, he's got a 2nd kite formation. Both pairs of relationship planets square (Sun/Moon and Venus/Mars).

I'm looking for themes in his interview that aren't easily accounted for with the known placements. What stands out?

Now here's what he has to say about himself[my comments are in brackets]:

Status: Never married, no children (Note: This was probably written about 2006/2007; he would have been over 40 at that point. Newspaper article from 9/6/12 states that he's single. Don't know if he was married and divorced in that interval.) [This makes me think he's got either a retrograde planet ruling the cusp of his 7th or Saturn or a retrograde planet inhabiting the 7th. It might also be the result of the squares in his chart between S/M and V/M]

Ideal woman: "It's more of how they carry themselves. I like a strong woman, someone who has a really good sense of humor, someone I can imagine being a really good friend. I like a woman who's independent, has a good balance of her life too,
but I also like to spend a lot of time with someone I'm with. Even just going to get groceries, or stuff like that." [A strong woman makes sense with that Aries Moon and the sense of humor makes sense with his Sag Venus. "Really good friend" makes me think of Aquarius, so possibly cusp ruler in 11th, Uranus in 7th or Aquarius DES since he has no planets in Aquarius. Has a good balance in her life gives a Libra flavor -- 7th ruler in 7th? -- but once again no planets in Libra. "Time" makes me think of Saturn again. No idea about the rest of that.]

I can't resist a woman who: "love's to live life to it's fullest and is spontaneous." [I hear Sag Venus/Aries Moon here]

Ideal date: "Sometimes I don't have a lot of time to spend with someone so I'll try to make it as special as I can. I'll plan a surprise date, something special, out of the ordinary. Just going someplace fun and hanging out. I love being with someone and having private time with them. A nice dinner where we could sit and talk and get to know each other." ["Surprise date" makes me think of Sag/Aries - yah she'd need to be spontaneous - but "out of the ordinary" makes me think of Aquarius again. "someplace fun" just seems very 5th house. "sit and talk" seems very Mercury and he has that Mercury/Venus conjunction in Sag. The emphasis on "nice" dinner sounds Venusian but most of this seems to fit with known placements.]

I'd call back after a first date ... "if we went out and we couldn't stop laughing." [That sounds SO Jupiter/Sag! Ruler of 5th in Sag is a possibility.]

I'd never date a woman who ... "plays games."

How I show I care: "I give my full attention - and I'm very affectionate."

On loyalty: "Yes. It's important to be honest with your feelings."

Is being in love important to you: "Of course, I'm very passionate - love …. it's what inspires me." [Fiery Moon/Venus. Venus in 5th? Sun in 7th? What planets rule "inspiration"?]

On relationships: "I'm a long term relationship guy. When I'm in, I'm in completely. I'm very serious once I'm with
someone. It's just that person. If I'm not, I'll date when I have time. I want a family and kids." [Sounds traditional, Cappy]

Top relationship keys: "The most, I think, really is you just want to be best friends. Still you have to have a little
mystery, you have to keep it new. And definitely keep doing romantic things." [There's the "friends" theme again - Aqua or Uranus or 7th ruler in 11th. He has Pluto conjunct Uranus, so that could account for the "mystery" bit. It also sounds like there's somekind of connection between the 5th/7th]

A woman in a relationship with me can expect ... "It won't be the same thing day after day - my life is really crazy sometimes. So it's always changing and I just try to keep it fresh." [More of the Uranian influence -- maybe on 6th?]

What I expect: "Respect. That's really big for me. It's tough to find someone who can be a good friend and then also have
sexual. You have to have passion in the relationship." [Sexual what?-That was dropped in the interview. But in general, this speaks to me of his Sun/Moon square and his Venus/Mars square]

When I'm in love ... "I'm really giving. I just want to make the person feel like there's no one else. That they're very, very special."

What makes me feel close to a woman: "When you can laugh together, If I know I can tell her everything inside and I know she's going to understand me." [This sounds like 8th house intimacy. Here's the thing on laughing together again. Maybe a connection between Jupiter and the 8th or Sag on 8th cusp? Hmmm...Pisces is also traditionally ruled by Jupiter -- musn't forget those traditional rulers! Maybe some aspect from Mercury to his Moon? Or a connection from Mercury to 8th house ruler? Or Moon in 8th?]

Greatest relationship lesson: "Don't move too fast. Build a friendship first." [Sounds like he's trying to control that
impatient Aries Moon There's that "friendship" theme again.]

What makes a woman marriage material: "If she can be a really good friend, a strong person, who loves life, loves to do something different each day." [More on the friendship, strength, love of life, spontaneousness -- well, at least the
guy's consistant and knows what he wants!]

What makes sex good: "When it's not planned." [Doesn't sound like his Virgo Mars or Cappy Sun have any say over his 5th/8th!]

I feel sexiest when ... "I'm on stage because I can just let it go. I'm really just throwing it out there, I just try to
put al my emotions in what I'm playing, so I think people can see that I'm just really passionate about what I do." [Connection between 5th or 8th or their rulers to the 10th? Connection between Moon and MC? Or Moon and 5th?]

Sexiest thing a woman can wear in private: "Sexy shoes." [This makes me think of Pisces because of rulership over the feet. Foot fetish? Neptune in 5th/8th?]

What puts me in the mood: "Getaways - even for a weekend … someplace romantic.[Sounds like more of the Sag Venus influence on 5th or 8th]

What makes me a great catch: "Once you have my heart - You know I'm going to give everything to the relationship."[Interesting for someone who on one level wants to commit but as of 40+ has never been married? Could be those squares between his relationship planets holding him back. Or something about his 7th - retrograde ruler or Saturn.]

Me in a word: "Passionate." [Fiery Moon/Venus]

Education: "I was very athletic when I was young - played a lot of sports. I was also a bookworm - kind of a nerd. I remember having to wear glasses that were always taped together because I would break them playing football. When I turned about 13, 14, everything changed for me - I just fell in love with music and started playing guitar. I would practice up to 8 hours a day, before and after school - it was my passion!" [Mars in 5th? But he's an air void, too.]

On his music: "My music is a fusion of styles …I love to take people on a musical journey...I hope this show appeals to the
hearts and souls of people of all ages, cultures, and musical boundaries..." [Possible connection between 5th and 9th.
Then again he's got that Grand Trine with Jupiter trining Sun so that could be it, too.]

Others may not see: "I think once people meet me, they know what I'm about." [Possible conjunction/flow from Sun or Moon
to ASC or MC]

Interests: "I love to travel. I love seeing different acts, music, theater, anything cultural. The Arts. I like anything outdoors - tennis, hiking, or just a drive along the beach." [Venus in Sag coming through loud and clear! This also sounds
like a connection between 5th/9th or Jupiter/Sun]

Turn ons: "Anything that's creative, innovative, unique, in other people. I love meeting different people from different cultures. That's a big turn on. I think it's very interesting. I love people with a good sense of humor, that's a big turn on for me." [Creative-Leo/5th. Innovative/Unique-Aquarius/Uranus]

Turn offs: "People who don't look into your eyes when they're talking to you."

Travels: "I try to go to research music... I love traveling to another country and experience the music, culture, and people - then I'll write a cd with the flavor of that country or region...Growing up in corn fields I always dreamed of exotic places and longed to travel." [Sounds like his Saggy Mercury -- but then he CREATES something from the experience so this seems tied to the 5th. However he does have a trine from Jupiter to his Sun to account for this. Dreaming of exotic places seems to connect Neptune/Pisces/12th, Jupiter/Sag/9th and Moon/Cancer/4th]

Spirituality: "You have to believe, you have to have faith. It's basically the golden rule, if you follow that, I think you're good. You have to have certain morals and certain ethics because it's like karma, everything that goes around, comes around. That is true. You try to learn from everything. I surround myself with people who have similar ideas and values." [This guy uses the phrase "Keep the faith!" as a signoff at the end of his shows. He has also, both in his shows and in his videos, lifted up his guitar like he was making an offering (reminds me of a Catholic priest lifting up the host or chalice). He's got that opposition between Jupiter and Neptune in his kite formation and he's very public about this since he does it as part of his show while at the same time being very ambiguous about who/what he actually believes IN. It sounds like Jupiter or Neptune must either rule his MC or be near the MC.]

Staying healthy: "I try to work out everyday - whether it's the treadmill or tennis - I try to eat healthy too."

What touches my soul: "Anything with genuine emotion. I'm somewhat sentimental, I hate to say it, but yeah I am. I'm
sensitive. I think a lot of artists we wear our heart out there, it's always out there. I am guarded, but you still have
to open up." [I can hear the Sun-Moon square! It also sounds to me like Moon near or aspecting MC.]

posted August 02, 2013 09:26 PM            

So next I started checking possible chart configurations at hourly intervals for the day of his birth to see what happens and eliminate any that just wouldn't seem to work with what's know about him.

Midnight - Sun in 4th, Moon in 7th, Saturn in 5th, rulers of 5th and 7th in the 12th house. [Hardly!]

1am - Sun in 3rd, Moon in 6th, Saturn still in 5th, but now we've got 3 planets in the 11th, including the rulers of the 7th and 5th cusps. [This might explain the friendship emphasis, but what about his career? This still doesn't look like the chart of someone who performs their own compositions in public.]

2am - Sun in 3rd, Moon in 6th, Saturn now in 4th, still 3 planets in the 11th, but 5th ruler in 1st, 7th ruler in 2nd [not a likely candidate]

3am - Sun in 3rd, Moon is now in 5th, Saturn still in 4th, 3 planets now in 10th. Moon in 5th might be someone who's dramatic in their emotional expression and Cancer is now on the cusp of the 9th, so there is a 5th/9th connection. But there's nothing to show a "friendship" theme for relationships and the 5th/9th could come from Sun/Jupiter in his GT or his Saggy planets. [Not a strong contender]

4am - Saturn has moved to the 3rd, Jupiter is now in 6th, Neptune moved to 12th, otherwise not much different from 3am [Not
promising]

5am - Sun now in 2nd with Moon in 4th. Jupiter has moved to the 5th and that's something, but 7th ruler in 1st and 5th
ruler in 10th with nothing in the 11th house or 7th to account for "friendship" [Not likely]

6am - This one holds some possibility: Sag is rising with Mercury/Venus and Sun in 1st. Moon is in 4th on the IC so this
person would be emotional at the core of his being and with the square to a 1st house Sun MIGHT be willing to put them on
display. Jupiter is still in 5th and he has at least Neptune in the 11th. But 5th/7th house rulers are in 1st. Neptune
in the 11th rules his 3rd house. [Still not too likely]

7am - Empty 5th-ruler in 12th, empty 7th-ruler in 3rd, empty 11th. [NOT]

8am - This one shows promise! Sun is now on the ASC and Moon in 3rd could indicate someone who communicates their emotions and puts his Moon at the point of a Yod with Neptune and Uranus/Pluto. The Neptune/Jupiter opposition is on his
MC/IC (someone who's core is spiritual/optimistic and communicates that in a vague but public manner?) 5th house ruler is in the 11th. Ruler of the 7th is the Moon in 3rd. There is nothing about his 7th to account for a delay in getting
married. Sag is on the cusp of the 12th (dreaming of exotic places?) [I printed this one for further analysis later]

9am - Sun/Moon now 12th/3rd Neptune/Jupiter 9th/3rd (Neptune still within 10 degrees of MC - Career as a musician/artist who dreamed of exotic places?) Ruler of 7th in the 12th. Uranus/Pluto conjunction in 7th and both are retrograde [print this one]

10am - Another one that has potential. Sun is now in the 11th and rules his 7th with Uranus/Pluto+Mars in 7th. Sag on MC. But the empty 5th with ruler in 3rd bothers me and the Saturn on the ASC bothers me even more. [print it anyway]

11am - 5th house ruler in 3rd. 7th house ruler in 10th on MC and Mars is on the DES. [Unlikely]

Noon - Moon in 12th but on the ASC, Sun in 10th and rules the 5th, Neptune in 7th doesn't sound like someone who knows what
he wants in a partner and Saturn in the 11th? [Don't think so]

1pm - Jupiter in Taurus on the ASC (sound too corpulant!), ruler of 7th in the 5th, Uranus in the 5th. Sun is still ruling
the 5th but is now in the 9th which seems more likely and Sun is still near the MC [Print]

2pm - Chiron in the 11th? Ruler of 7th in 12th. Ruler of 5th in 8th. Saturn in 10th. [No]

3pm - Saturn still in 10th, now near Mc. Sun in 8th. Moon in 11th, but ruling 2nd. Ruler of 5th in 7th. Ruler of 7th in 12th. [Unlikely]

4pm - Moon and Jupiter are now in the 11th but Moon rules ASC and Sag is intercepted in the 6th. Saturn in his 9th doesn't sound like someone who travels extensively [No]

5pm - Jupiter in 11th ruling 6th house. Sun in 7th. Moon in 10th. Neptune is now in 5th, which sounds good, but 5th ruler in 3rd and 7th ruler in 9th. Still have Saturn in 9th. [No]

6pm - Empty 5th, empty 7th, empty 11th. Ruler of 7th in 8th. Ruler of 5th in 3rd. [No]

7pm - Now we have Aquarius on 7th. Saturn is on the cusp of 7th/8th (could be in 7th depending on house system) which could account for the delayed marriage. Also 7th cusp ruled by a retrograde planet. Moon is in 9th near the MC (7 degrees) and Jupiter is in 10th with Sag on cusp of 5th and Mercury/Venus in 5th (seems to reinforce the tie between travel and being inspired by his travels to write music). Ruler of 11th in 5th. I like the Jupiter/Neptune being so near his MC/IC again, but this time reversed. [One more to print for closer examination]

8pm - Same basic positions as above but now Jupiter/Neptune tighter on MC/IC and Sun is now in 5th along with Mercury/Venus and Saturn is clearly in the 7th [Print!]
.
9pm - Sun still in 5th but Mercury/Venus now in 4th and Moon has moved to 8th. Ruler of 5th in 5th. Ruler of 7th in 3rd.
Empty 11th. [Unlikely]

10pm - Same as above but now has Uranus/Pluto on his ASC [Unlikely]

11pm - Empty 5th, 7th, 11th. Ruler of 5th in 12th. Rule of 7th in 2nd. [No]

11:59pm - Empty 11th, Saturn in 5th, Moon in 11th. Ruler of 5th/7th in 12th. [No]

Whew. Glad to have narrowed down the playing field! I've printed out six possibilities for further examination: 8am, 9am, 10am, 1pm, 7pm & 8pm. Of those six, I think I can safely eliminate the 10am (Saturn on ASC with Chiron in 1st house?) and 1pm (Saturn and Chiron in 11th/Ruler of 7th in 5th/6th?) Don't know what came over me on those two!

posted August 03, 2013 12:00 AM            

So I'm sitting here with all 4 charts spread before me and what do I notice first? There is a major difference between
the two evening charts and the two morning charts. Not only is the Jupiter/Neptune opposition flipped, but the movement of
the Moon results in additional aspect patterns for the morning charts. AMs have the Moon as the point of a yod configuration with Neptune and Uranus/Pluto in sextile. And...

(Whoa, Jupey! Down boy! Just because his Moon now has a semi-square to Saturn is no reason to get your hopes up. Now let's be reasonable here. Show some restraint! Take the philosophical approach here -- do you really want his poor, afflicted Moon to be under any additional stress? That's right! Good boy.)

Okay, I'm now going to (try) and (objectively) focus on what this means and most of all, if it works with what we know
about him. His Moon now has at least a minor aspect to EVERY SINGLE PLANET IN HIS CHART. Now what the heck does that mean?! Shoot! It also puts his Moon smack dab on my DES. (Jupey looks up again with interest but manages to sit still.) I don't NEED any more angle contact!

The 8am chart gives him a Capricorn ascendant with the Sun right on his angle from the 1st house, Moon is in 3rd, Jupiter
is in the 4th conjunct his IC with Neptune in the 10th within 5 degrees of his MC. This is a VERY angular chart. He's got
both luminaries in the PM hemisphere plus two more planets, so the AM/PM is pretty evenly distributed. He's also got a 6/4
split between his eastern and western hemispheres with both luminaries in the western. Hmmm. Seems to lean a bit to the
private/less social and that doesn't seem right. This particular time splits his Mercury/Venus between the 11th/12th houses but that could change with a different house system or with a change of just a few minutes but something to keep in mind. This would make the Moon rule his 7th so ruler of 7th in 3rd? But ... oops I was wrong. Moon does NOT aspect his Mercury/Venus. That doesn't sound like someone who'd want to share "everything that's inside him" with a partner. BUT
Mercury DOES rule both the 5th and the 8th, so still possible. But what would cause the delay in marriage? There's nothing in the 7th, only Mercury inhabits the 11th (maybe Venus too), and Moon rules the 7th -- none of those are retrograde or likely to manifest in such a strong "friend" theme in relationships. I'll go on to look at the others and only come back to this if there's nothing that seems more promising.

The 9am chart gives him Aquarius rising with the Sun in his 12th ruling his 7th house cusp. It puts Uranus/Pluto (both
retrograde) in his 7th as well which might give the "friend" theme and also indicate a delay in getting married. It ALSO puts the rulers of his 5th/8th in the 11th house which would serve to reinforce the theme. Hmmm. Neptune in the 9th could be someone who "dreamed of exotic places" and it's still within 10 degrees of the MC. If the time is adjusted a few minutes later it would make Jupiter ruler of his 10th. That actually sounds better than Neptune 10 degrees from the MC. Oh! This chart puts his Moon in an INTERCEPTED 3rd house. The point of a yod in an intercepted house -- how would that work? I don't know -- something still feels off. Let's check out the PM charts and see what we get.

(Jupey is disappointed about the lack of Moon-Saturn aspects but tries to be brave.)

The 7pm chart takes away some of the affliction from the Moon. We're now back to a Solar-Lunar square plus the Moon now
gets a nice trine from his Sagittarius placements. Three planets in Q1, 3+Sun in Q2, 1+Moon in Q3, 1 in Q4. Moon in 9th is about 7 degrees from his MC which would seem to work with both the love of travel and the "putting his emotions on stage". Jupiter in 10th could account for his public "keep the faith". Saturn could be in 7th or 8th depending on house system so that could account for the delay in getting married and also taking relationships seriously. Also Aquarius is on the 7th and could account for the "friend" emphasis for a partner. Pisces on 8th -- foot fetish -- sexy shoes? Mercury/Venus in 5th with Sag on cusp. 5th house Mercury might account for the "bookworm" Hmmm. 1st house ruler in 6th? 9th house ruler is Pisces - "dreamed of exotic places" especially with Neptune in 4th, so in his childhood among corn fields. Oh, and the ruler of his 12th house is in the 9th This seems like a really good match!

The 8pm chart still gives him a Leo rising. Placements that changed is that Saturn is now clearly in the 7th and Jupiter is within 2 degrees of the MC. But most importantly is that his Sun is now in the 5th house and becomes his chart ruler.

It seems that the PM charts with the Leo ascendent work best. 7pm puts the Moon closer to the MC. 8pm puts Jupiter closer. The Chart ruler could be in the 7th or 6th. (In other interviews he talks about his work ethic, so either could work in that respect. Actually, he mentioned it in this one, too, but I edited down and didn't include it since the Cappy Sun and Virgo Mars already would indicate a man with a strong work ethic.) The MC also changes from late Aries to Taurus. That could put the ruler of the 10th in either the 2nd (Mars) or the 5th (Venus). Either could work for his career; don't know if Libra or Scorpio work better for the 4th (ruler of 4th in 5th or ruler of 4th in 2nd-both traditional and modern). He has mentioned having two older sisters but both 7pm and 8pm charts would put the 3rd house ruler in the 5th with a sextile from Saturn. But the part about "tell her everything inside and know she's going to understand me" makes me favor 8th house ruler on IC -- like he wants to share from his core -- and that would favor the 8pm. (Neptune on IC? I wonder if one of his parents was alcoholic?) 8pm also would give him a nice trine from his Moon to his ASC.

So at this point I feel stuck. I'm feeling fairly confident that he must have a Leo rising. But degree?

posted August 03, 2013 05:55 AM            

"1am - Sun in 3rd, Moon in 6th, Saturn still in 5th, but now we've got 3 planets in the 11th, including the rulers of the 7th and 5th cusps. [This might explain the friendship emphasis, but what about his career? This still doesn't look like the chart of someone who performs their own compositions in public.]"

Actually it could be. Luminaries in 3rd house or ruler of ASC or MC or 5th house in 3rd house are pretty common for people who perform, as this is the house where they show/ communicate their Self.

(I have found especially the ruler of 1st and 5th house in 3rd house, or the ruler of 3rd house in 1st or 5th house to come up often in that case).

What is the ASC here? What house does Sun rule?

The 11th house is very strong in people who operate in public or at least with their social environment; it is just as much a career-house as the 10th house, it is just a little more "personal".

"

2am - Sun in 3rd, Moon in 6th, Saturn now in 4th, still 3 planets in the 11th, but 5th ruler in 1st, 7th ruler in 2nd [not a likely candidate]"
Why not?

5th house in 1st house - creative (or sexual) expression of ones emotional state (5th house) is shown in one`s Selfpresentation (1st house) - typical performer-configuration, as long as there is also a connection to the 10th or/ and 11th house in some way.

With the Saturn in 4th house, there should be something significant about his childhood or original family, parental issues (could be very different though, Saturn in 4th could mean feeling oppressed by a parent as well as extremely supported, resulting in a feeling of high responsibility and strong ties to the home and family).

erson would be emotional at the core of his being and with the square to a 1st house Sun MIGHT be willing to put them on
display. Jupiter is still in 5th and he has at least Neptune in the 11th. But 5th/7th house rulers are in 1st. Neptune
in the 11th rules his 3rd house. [Still not too likely]"
Iw ouldn`t be too quick to dismiss this one.
He is a singer after all - and gaining recognition and wanting to be appreciated (also a 11th house symbolism) through the way he communicates or sings/ speaks/ thinks (3rd house) would make sense.

I did already mention the 5th in 1st placement.

"

Neptune still within 10 degrees of MC "-
Too wide to be counted as connected to the MC

"10am - Another one that has potential. Sun is now in the 11th and rules his 7th with Uranus/Pluto+Mars in 7th. Sag on MC. But the empty 5th with ruler in 3rd bothers me and the Saturn on the ASC bothers me even more. [print it anyway]"

Ruler of 5th in 3rd makes much sense (don´t bother about 5th being empty; remember the chart of Mr Sag? Empty 5th house as well, but a very prominent 5th house ruler on MC and conjunct Sun).

With Uranus-Pluto-Mars in 7th something should be very noteable or even dramatic about relationships.

Saturno n ASC - hmm, is he very reserved?

"11am - 5th house ruler in 3rd. 7th house ruler in 10th on MC and Mars is on the DES. [Unlikely]"
Why?

"1pm - Jupiter in Taurus on the ASC (sound too corpulant!), ruler of 7th in the 5th, Uranus in the 5th. Sun is still ruling
the 5th but is now in the 9th which seems more likely and Sun is still near the MC [Print]"
Could be.

"Saturn in his 9th doesn't sound like someone who travels extensively [No]"
Problem with Saturn is that we sometimes overcompensate in these areas.
For example my friend has Saturn in 3rd house - she is a master communicator. She has been honing that skill over years, perfecting it (cuse she perceived a lack in herself; a lack that never was existent btw) - but the result is that she has always been seeking out these situations where she had to communicate extensely, there was a lot of compulsion to it, whereas I with my Jupiter in 3rd house, just blurt out with whatever I think, without even thinking about the reasons for that. lol)

"8pm - Same basic positions as above but now Jupiter/Neptune tighter on MC/IC and Sun is now in 5th along with Mercury/Venus and Saturn is clearly in the 7th [Print!]"
Could be.

posted August 03, 2013 06:02 AM            

HOnestly I think we could be close on target or we could be MILES away, even if our astrological deductions are sound.

In the case of Mr Sag, after seeing him and later also hearing him talk, reading his thoughts, would I EVER have picked a chart with Saturn on the DESC?
Or Mars-Jupiter in 6th house?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So let me suggest a different approach.

You met him. Tell me about his self presentation. How did he come across to you?

And I insist on 5 events from his life, as I already mentioned.

For example you are pretty convinced he has Leo - ASC (though from my own experience I had to realized that what was so Leonine to me, really was the Sun on the MC. lol And it makes sense, as he is a performer and you and me both met them, when they were in a social function, so we are more likely to see the MC than the ASC, though there coudl be a blend).

Anyway, we could try out the Leo-ASC chart you favour (or any of the other charts you fafour).

posted August 03, 2013 11:52 PM            

When I evaluated the charts, I chose to focus on finding those that could explain the emphasis on "friendship" as a qualification for a significant partner since none of the known planets seem to account for that in themselves. Explaining his career was secondary in my consideration.

But your points are well taken and very helpful. I've still got quite an ego-centric understanding (I understand things better if I can relate from my own chart) when doing astrology. For example, my 10th house ruler in 10th is trining my chart ruler and my 5th house ruler falls in either 10th or 11th depending on house system. I can relate to someone like that enjoying performing on stage; your comments and insights help me to expand beyond that for which I'm thankful.

BTW, here's my birth info if you care to draw one up: **edit**

So we've both got our eyes on men who are a few years younger than us and born in the same month

It's the 5th house Saturn that made me disqualify the 1am chart. It's not just that he performs (he's an instrumentalist, not singer btw), but that he composes his own music, directs and appears in his own videos, etc. Perhaps that would be different if he were writing lyrics. I could see lyrics being 3rd house. So you think this is one I should consider more seriously even with Saturn in the 5th like with what you mentioned about your friend and her overcompensating?

In the 2am the 11th house planets rule the 1st, 4th and 6th houses. Nothing to tie the 11th with the partner as a "friend". Or did I miss something?

"6am - [Still not too likely] I wouldn`t be too quick to dismiss this one.. . "

Again, looked to find something to account for friendship as a key relationship factor.

"Neptune still within 10 degrees of MC "-
Too wide to be counted as connected to the MC" Yes, I thought so too, but thought it might have some pull if it was the most elevated planet.

"Ruler of 5th in 3rd makes much sense (don´t bother about 5th being empty; remember the chart of Mr Sag? Empty 5th house as well, but a very prominent 5th house ruler on MC and conjunct Sun)."

Yes. The empty houses don't bother me if the placement of the ruler seems right.

"With Uranus-Pluto-Mars in 7th something should be very noteable or even dramatic about relationships." Not at all, so that would seem to disqualify this.

"Saturn on ASC - hmm, is he very reserved?" Noooo. Very warm, gracious, regal. I think Leo/Sag/Sun/Jupe influencing prominent angles or his Mercury/Venus or Sun in tight aspect.

"11am - 5th house ruler in 3rd. 7th house ruler in 10th on MC and Mars is on the DES. [Unlikely] Why?"

Mars on his DES would influence what he's looking for in a partner. It's also dispositor of his Aries Moon which is intercepted in the 1st house and the Moon rules the 5th in this chart which is empty. I think that would make it really difficult to access those 5th house energies with an intercepted luminary ruling. Plus nothing in the chart would account for the partner/friend theme.

Trying to find more info on him is TOUGH; believe me I've tried! He isn't forthcoming about his age and I only got that info because he's listed as the president of his own independent record label which is public record. I only got THAT info by following links that have since been deactivated. I absolutely, positively REFUSE to try any of those "background check" services. SHUDDER! That just sounds too much like stalking someone.

Because he's so private about his age, I can't get any significant dates/events because I've run across conflicts when trying to pinpoint those. Like in this interview he talks about 13/14 being when he really fell in love with the guitar but in another it appears he got his 1st guitar at 11. When did he move to CA? Same thing! Conflicting years (possibly typos in newspaper articles?). So what can I do? All my research has run up against conflicting info or brick walls (short of paying for a background check-NOOOOO)!

posted August 04, 2013 06:28 AM            

No, you have to limit it to 1-3 possible birthtimes.

"I chose to focus on finding those that could explain the emphasis on "friendship" as a qualification for a significant partner"
Ruler of 7th in 11th house
Ruler of 11th in 7th house
strong aspect (conjunction and square esp., maybe opposition= between the rulers of 11th and 7th house.
Aquarius in 7th house could indicate this, too, but more subtly though

Uranus in 7th is not so specific (to friendships) as Uranus can have very different symbolism as well.

"So we've both got our eyes on men who are a few years younger than us and born in the same month "
Yes

(falling back into bad stereotypical astrology for a moment I could relate that to GEmini on the cusp of my DESC. )

"It's the 5th house Saturn that made me disqualify the 1am chart. It's not just that he performs (he's an instrumentalist, not singer btw), but that he composes his own music, directs and appears in his own videos,"
In this case Saturn could be very fitting, as he is often strong in composers, especially if they have more classical or structured "lines" in their compositions.

Also a ruler of 5th house in 10th house might be fitting for someone who needs to have so much control about the output of his creativity. People with ruler of 5th house in 10th house usually are their own bosses, or at least need a high level of independence in their professional lives.
They need to organize their careers themselves, instead of having it organized for them (by a government or some other kind of authority).

BTW Mr Sag has the ruler of 5th house conjunct his MC, too, and by now he has been forming his own band, and having a high level of control about the output (along with the other bandmembers of course, but it is clear who is Numero Uno in this kind of set up). I think it is important for him so he can play or perform whatever he wants and likes, instead of just performing after other peoples directions. Actually he has also been directing several plays and musicals by now.
Ruler of 5th in 10th along with the square to Saturn probably - you could easily get misled by his compliant Pisces-ASC and easygoing Sag-stellium, thinking he is just a big playful charming boy, which definitely is a side of him, but there must be a lot of determination and willingness to put hard work into his goals to make a living from this.

And I think the same goes for your guy. To be able to assert himself in this line of work and still be himself, doing his own thing (to a certain degree at least), he needs a will of steel, a sense of structure and organization (as well in his compositions as in organizing his career).

For these things Saturn definitely comes to mind. He will not have a weak Saturn, no I don`t believe so.

"So you think this is one I should consider more seriously even with Saturn in the 5th like with what you mentioned about your friend and her overcompensating?"
Possibly.

"In the 2am the 11th house planets rule the 1st, 4th and 6th houses. Nothing to tie the 11th with the partner as a "friend". Or did I miss something?"
Is Venus part of the stellium in 11th house?Sometimes that can indicate that already, especially if the 7th house ruler is maybe in the 3rd or even 9th house.

"Not at all, so that would seem to disqualify this."
Definitely.
highly unlikely that Mars-Uranus-Pluto in 7th will go unnoticed.

"Noooo. Very warm, gracious, regal. I think Leo/Sag/Sun/Jupe influencing prominent angles or his Mercury/Venus or Sun in tight aspect."
Yes, that seems more like it. But let´s also keep in mind that this could show up at his MC instead of his ASC.

"I think that would make it really difficult to access those 5th house energies with an intercepted luminary ruling. "
No, interception means nothing.

Well, at least not what so many say it means.
Or do you get the impression my chartruler Jupiter is very subdued, hardly noteable (it is in my 3rd house, intercepted of course)=

"he's listed as the president of his own independent record label which is public record."
Ruler of 5th house in 10th house. LOl

"Because he's so private about his age, I can't get any significant dates/events because I've run across conflicts when trying to pinpoint those"
Then it will be pretty impossible to really be sure aobut his ASC, even with all the finetuning we already did. We NEED to see if the timers fit real life events.

However, guarding personal information - is a very 3rd/ 12th house thing to do.

posted August 04, 2013 06:50 AM            

8:02 p.m.

posted August 04, 2013 06:58 AM            

The creativity is there in the Stellium in the 5th house with a suggestion of a high idealism (Mercury-Venus) in terms of creativity as well as sexuality.

The ruler of 5th house is conjunct MC being part of a Grand trine.

The ruler of 10th house is also in 5th house, and conjunct 2nd house ruler Mercury, showing how he earns his money (and gains self-value) from using his creativity in terms of his vocation or career.

Saturn in 7th could make for a certain delay in marriage, or at least a control-factor when it comes to relationships.

there is not much to account for hte friendship theme in terms of relationship though, except for Aquarius on the DESC and maybe the ruler of 11th house being conjunct Venus in 5th house.

Well, maybe it`s enough, friends could become lovers here.

Nothing here that backs up the secrecy about his identity or biography though. (well maybe Neptune in 4th suffices)

posted August 04, 2013 07:46 PM            

"Also a ruler of 5th house in 10th house might be fitting for someone who needs to have so much control about the output of his creativity. People with ruler of 5th house in 10th house usually are their own bosses, or at least need a high level of independence in their professional lives.
They need to organize their careers themselves, instead of having it organized for them (by a government or some other kind of authority)."
This describes him! The two evening charts I was favoring both put Jupiter in 10th as ruler of his 5th.

"BTW Mr Sag has the ruler of 5th house conjunct his MC, too, and by now he has been forming his own band, and having a high level of control about the output (along with the other bandmembers of course, but it is clear who is Numero Uno in this kind of set up). I think it is important for him so he can play or perform whatever he wants and likes, instead of just performing after other peoples directions...thinking he is just a big playful charming boy, which definitely is a side of him, but there must be a lot of determination and willingness to put hard work into his goals to make a living from this."
OUR two guys sound like kindred spirits!

"And I think the same goes for your guy. To be able to assert himself in this line of work and still be himself, doing his own thing (to a certain degree at least), he needs a will of steel, a sense of structure and organization (as well in his compositions as in organizing his career)."
Yes. I've heard/read him refer to the "music business" and I very much see him as being a businessman behind the artist. He seems like the type that would be able to succeed in WHATEVER he sets himself to accomplish. It's part of the appeal he holds for me.

"For these things Saturn definitely comes to mind. He will not have a weak Saturn, no I don`t believe so."
Saturn would be exalted in Libra/7th house.

"Is Venus part of the stellium in 11th house?" No, it's his Virgo placements that fall in the 11th with the 2am chart.

"Yes, that seems more like it. But let´s also keep in mind that this could show up at his MC instead of his ASC."
The evening charts that I favored put Jupiter in his 10th; 8pm puts it about 2degrees from his MC in addition to the Leo rising.

"Or do you get the impression my chartruler Jupiter is very subdued"
No. That's the reason it surprised me. When I noticed that it was intercepted, it made me wonder just how strong he would be if it wasn't intercepted. Made me think of Superman in the presence of kryptonite, still strong as an ordinary man but not as powerful as you might expect with so many houses ultimately under his direction.

""he's listed as the president of his own independent record label which is public record."
Ruler of 5th house in 10th house. LOl"

I DID find two definite dates for him dealing with his music companies:

Filing date for the first company is 07/15/2003. He's registered agent and listed as president. This company was dissolved.

Filing date for the second company is 7/27/2011. His MOM is listed as registered agent. Both he and his mom are listed as managing members. This company is still active.

Not exactly glamorous bits of personal information, but I think they would count as significant for someone who's a "take charge" business type.

"However, guarding personal information - is a very 3rd/ 12th house thing to do."

What about Pluto ruling the 4th house cusp and Neptune in 4th? That seems like someone rather guarded/vague about his home/family/core. And if Moon is ruling 12th house, maybe protecting his mother?

posted August 04, 2013 08:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
BTW can you give me a name for him,t hat I can refer to? Doesn`t have to be his real name, just some kind of name, as I want to play a round with his chart in Solar Fire and have to add a name to the data-input.

---

posted August 04, 2013 10:23 PM            

This is a quote from an interview he gave:
"That was in 1999. I was at a crossroads in my life. I was playing rock 'n' roll and I just wasn't into that lifestyle. I heard the Spanish guitar on the radio one day, while driving. I had never really thought about playing Spanish guitar before, but it just captured my soul. That very day, I made up my mind: "I'm changing. I want to learn this style.""

And from another source:
“In L.A., I was at a crossroads in my life,” he said. “I was just getting out of a relationship and wasn’t into the rock and roll lifestyle.”

So it sounds like 1999 was a pivotal year both for relationship and career.

From the second source there's also:
Then, in 2003, after sending a tape of his show ...to PBS, the artist got his big break.

1st PBS special in 2006/2007, 2nd PBS special in 2009 and touring during the interval between. (Source dated September 25, 2009 says "finished a second PBS special last week" so that's more definite)

He also moved from Nebraska to California in 1994 to pursue a music career.

He got his 1st guitar at 11. Perhaps he didn't really get that into it until 13/14 and that could account for the age discrepancy.

posted August 05, 2013 12:35 AM            

I've also been playing around on Planetwatcher.com and in 1999 when he was at a relational crossroads and had that epiphany experience that made him change his instrumental style the North Node was between 3.59 - 22.46 Leo, Uranus was between 11.00 - 14.47 Aquarius, and Neptune was between 1.05 - 3.10 Aquarius. That might explain a relational break up and a sudden change in his musical "identity". Additionally, Saturn was between 26.47 Aries and 10.25 Taurus so perhaps transiting his mid-heaven? Compared to playing Rock n Roll, his new style could be considered more "serious" or "conservative".

On 7-15-2003 Jupiter was at 20 Leo.
On 7-27-2011 Jupiter was at 8 Taurus.
Those could be his approximate ASC and MC and if Jupiter is actually the ruler of his 5th, then perhaps a transit from Jupiter to the angles might prompt something like this?

posted August 05, 2013 06:05 AM            

"OUR two guys sound like kindred spirits!"
Maybe thy are.

Bunny`s Saturn is conjunct Mr Sag`s SN.
and Mr Sag`s Neptune is conjunct Bunny`s SN. Actually Mr Sag`s Sun-Moon-MC from 26-28 Sag falls near onto Bunny`s Mercury-Venus-SN. lol

"Made me think of Superman in the presence of kryptonite, still strong as an ordinary man but not as powerful as you might expect with so many houses ultimately under his direction."
Well, I think my Jupiter is really strong as it is. AS it is also essentially dignified in domicile in Pisces, plus dispositing all of these planets and in mutual reception with Neptune.
Hard to say if it could be any stronger, unless it was angular probably. lol

posted August 05, 2013 06:21 AM            

SA Venus and Mercury exactly square the natal MC (in solar arcs as in midpoints the conjunction, opposition and square simply means that something is activated, but not that it is good or bad).

Venus rules his MC;

of course SA Venus also activates his Jupiter, and therefore the 5th house ruler in 10th house - configruation.

Definitely makes a lot of sense.

There was no strong transit setting it off.

However, the transiting nodal axis triggered his natal nodal axis.

And the transiting Uranus (and Pluto) were triggering his SA MC-Jupiter-conjunction (Uranus was applying to the exact square again).

For the 2003-event there are no strong positive arcs to his MC
However interestingly SA Neptune was exactly conjunct MC-ruler Venus, which usually speaks of high idealism, but low realism, and unfortunately often appears together with the dissolution of what Neptune touches.
And you said it did not work out?
in 2003 I mean?

posted August 05, 2013 06:36 AM            

Crossroads, lifechanging events - I found this on this:

"Life-changing aspect maker symbols are:
Transiting or Solar Arc Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto conjunct, square, opposition to Sun, Moon, or an Angle.
Solar Arc ASC or MC conjunct, square, opposed Mars, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.
Secondary Progressed Moon conjunct, square, or opposed Saturn." http://newwayastrology.tumblr.com/post/10330222867/life-changing-projections-i-see-prediction-not-as

(good astrologer btw; he is sometimes a little bit too much standing on a soapbox for my taste - and that with my Sagittarianness. lol- and Imay not agree with every little tiny detail, but he knows his stuff; I have learned quite a lot from reading his articles).

posted August 05, 2013 06:50 AM            

SA ASC conjunct natal Mars on 26 Virgo

while I am not overly happy to see Mars on ASC for the dissolution of a relationship (I rather had seen an URanus, Neptune or Pluto there), it might signal a strong push for individualization in his life.
Maybe he sacrificed his relationship for his goals.

this SA ASC also squares Mercury and will go on squaring Venus of course.

SA Jupiter exactly on the natal NN - defnitely a fated time in his life, one that calls for expansion (and with Jupiter tied to his MC -w ell you know).

There is also - and now things get interesting -

SA Uranus and SA Pluto squaring his natal Sun in the 5th house, as ruler of 1st house.
Uranus of course rules the DESC so it brings issues about relationships into consideration, too.

Transit Uranus would have been between 11-15 Aquarius this year, electrocuting his MC.

Transit Neptune-SN conjunction woul have been conjunct the SA Mercury-Venus - dissolution of a love relationship`? Glamourization of either love or career?

well but now the 2011 event doesn´t fit the timeframe anymore. so back to square one.

But no for me now, this is a little exhausting. lol

posted August 05, 2013 06:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[BFor the 2003-event there are no strong positive arcs to his MC
However interestingly SA Neptune was exactly conjunct MC-ruler Venus, which usually speaks of high idealism, but low realism, and unfortunately often appears together with the dissolution of what Neptune touches.
And you said it did not work out?
in 2003 I mean?[/B]

---

Hmmm. Neptune being involved actually makes sense. He incorporated the 1st label and also sent that tape to PBS in 2003. But he didn't work with the choreo to stage the 1st special until December 2005, over two years later, and the show didn't air until 2006. So that certainly sounds like high idealism and low reality. Also interesting that the term "dissolve" is used in referencing to ending a company.

posted August 05, 2013 07:21 PM            

To what did you adjust it?

"well but now the 2011 event doesn´t fit the timeframe anymore. so back to square one."

I also tried an adjustment to 7:32pm and tried the "Natal, Transits & Progressions" at ASTRO.com. For the 7/27/2011 with that birth time I get the Progressed MC conjuct the Natal N.Node, T.Jupiter conjunct the Natal MC and T.Pluto conjunct the Natal Vertex. Not sure if that works, if the right stuff is activated and suitably "ripe" for a transit or if it's all just meaningless.

I'd been focusing on the nodes because of something I read here: http://www.moonvalleyastrologer.com/the-moons-nodes/

"When the North Node transits the Ascendant, the individual is in a “coming out” phase. Personal timing tends to be fortunate, and there is a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Things begin to click, as there is an air of self-sufficiency, with others responding more readily to any personal efforts undertaken by the individual...At the same time, the transiting South Node on the 7th house cusp shows that others may tend to be somewhat like extra weight to carry..."

For 1999, with the North Node transiting Leo and the South Node in Aquarius, PLUS Uranus transiting Aquarius (Uranus conjunct South Node exact on May 15, 1999), that sounds to me like a prime set up for a relationship failing and a change in (musical) identity happening at about the same time IF this is happening on his ASC/DES angle. AND the Uranus/Nodes conjunction would have gone exact right on the degree of ASC with the 7:32pm birth time. That same date puts T.Saturn within 1 degree of his N.MC and T.Jupiter within 1 degree of his N.Moon. His P.Asc would be conjunct his N.Uranus within 1-1/2 degree orb.