posted July 26, 2013 05:41 PM            

My IC is at 20Cap07 with Jupiter at 21Cap04 and Saturn at 23Cap08. Because these two planets are on an angle, it magnifies their importance. However, Jupiter and Saturn are very different energies. Jupiter is accidentally exalted in the 4th but in its fall by sign. Saturn has rulership by sign but accidentally in detriment by house.

So I check the aspects. I've got Uranus in the 11th at 24Leo18 in quincunx to Saturn (which makes the traditional and the modern rulers of my Aquarius Sun in tension). The orb is a trifle wide for quincunx to Jupiter, but since Jupiter is so near to Saturn, it could be pulled into that anyway. The only other aspects to this conjunction are from Pluto in my 11th at 7Vir29 on my North Node at 6Vir18 which forms a sesquisquare and semisquare to South Node.

Overall it seems like the two energies are pretty much in balance. At this point in my life, I'd say that I've learned to "drive with the terrain" and gently apply gas when going upward and gently cover the breaks when there's a downward slope. I'm "optimistically realistic" or "humorously cynical" or have a sort of "controlled abandon".

BUT, how should I understand this conjunction when I do a synastry? If someone's planet or luminary conjuncts it, it would be in Capricorn which is ruled by Saturn anyway so they might LIKE having contact with my Saturn, but would that make my Jupiter annoying? Would it simply "energize" them but in a balanced way? Would it feel like getting their head/heart/drive/affections or whatever smashed between two equal and opposing forces?

And what about a square? Would it make a difference if their planet is squaring from Libra (my 12th or 1st houses) or from Aries (6th/7th)? Would my planets just fuel whatever planets they have making the square but in a way that they can't quite name? Or would my conjunction not have much effect because they seem to balance out in how I've come to work with them? I guess the same questions go with softer aspects as well.

I'm in a bit of a "Catch-22" here in who to ask. Those that I have "skin" relationships with aren't into astrology (and some would be offended if they knew of my renewed interest). Those that get the astrology only relate to me over the internet, so I don't know if they would even feel it enough to answer.

posted July 28, 2013 08:13 AM            

Secondly, it is not easy to project how it will be felt, without an actual example, as it always also depends on the other`s chart.

However I will try my best...

" Because these two planets are on an angle, it magnifies their importance."
yes, keep in mind though, that this is the deepest and most invivible place in your chart (as it is the midnight-point, deep deep below the surface).

While planets on all angles are equally important, it is the planets on the ASC and even more so on the MC that are easily seen and noted by other people.

The planets on the IC and DESC are just as important and esp. in terms of the IC describing an very deep inner quality (I call it "the womb of your soul" even though I have no idea why I am calling it like that, the expression was just there someday. ).
Also since the IC marks the beginning and the DESC The midpoint of the Western hemisphere, the one that orients itself to other people, it might be exceptionally important in relationships, where the IC describes more your inner attitude towards other people (and also describes whom or how you let anyone come close; nothing is closer to your soul than your IC. Total vulnerability and nakedness there, stripped bare of all defences, just like a child, in a way. Which might be why it also relates to the early home). The DESC might be a little more obvious to the outer world as this is when the line is crossed, where things come to light (upper hemisphere is the hemisphere where we have light or are in the light) and where you encounter actual others.

" However, Jupiter and Saturn are very different energies. "
Yes and no. Different yes, but complementing each other.
Taken together and if you can get them to stop the squabbling, they can make for a great balance. Maybe the cautiousness of Saturn will win out though, as not only is it at home in Capricorn, and it also means that the ruler of the IC itself (Saturn) is in the 4th house. That is deep, but in the careful way Saturn is.
Saturn might also be having the last word, because Jupiter listens to him.
I wouldn`t say Jupiter is weakened because he is in detriment (maybe he is, I donīt know; I wouldn`t call it weakened, it is rather that he has to act in ways that are foreign to him. Tone down his broad expansive enthusiastic ways a little. Which can be good. CAuse a Jupiter out of control can be really really overbearing at times. Believe me, I have Jupiter at home in Pisces in interrelationship with angular Neptune - I may feel totaly comfortable, yes, but where is the grounding elements to keep my dreams in reasonable ways? It can easily get too much; luckily my Jupiter also trines my singleton SAturn; Jupiter and Saturn are quite important in my chart in relation to dispositor trees; they are directing all other energies.).

True to my Jupiter tendency to talk too much and without punctuation and flitting here and there, where the ideas seem to pull me (Jupiter in Pisces in 3rd house in mutual reception and squared by Neptune, ruler of 3rd house, angular on the ASC), I havbe almost forgotten what I wanted to say.

Ah yes, Jupiter listens to Saturn, as Saturn is the dispositor (as natural ruler of Capricorn).
Had Jupiter been in Taurus, he would have listened to Venus.
And thus it shows how the Jupiter-energy will be expressed or how its expression will be modified.
Here in the calm and more structured ways of Saturn.

BTW Saturn as ruler of the IC in 4th house would probably point o some stuff surrounding the parental axis or experience in the childhood. (Noel Tyl and Basil Fearrington always say that whenb they see something like this in 4th or 10th house).
With Jupiter and Saturn here - did you experience your parents as quite different? Or were you getting ambiguous messages as a kid?

Like I did, my Mom would one day ask me why I was being so sad and introverted (when I was just being not talking much at all) and how I should be happier and more outgoing; and the next day when I was laughing about something (okay it was just a thought flitting through my mind that made me laugh; I can entertain myself. lol) and she would tell me to stop laughing without reason, as this would seem as if I was stupid.

(btw I LOVE my mom to bits, and she is a great supportive mom; but we all may be getting messages we do not process that well, even without malevolent intention of our parents).

In my case I have Pluto on the MC square its ruler Venus in 1st house. (My mom is a Scorpio btw and I feel in my case the 10th house is associated with my maternal family)

Oh sorry I got distracted AGAIN. Is there a Neptune-Mercury-aspect out there?

posted July 28, 2013 08:23 AM            

But as I said there it is likely that SAturn will take the lead and guiding the conjunction, and of course he can profit from the ease of Jupiter.

" "drive with the terrain" and gently apply gas when going upward and gently cover the breaks when there's a downward slope. I'm "optimistically realistic" or "humorously cynical" or have a sort of "controlled abandon"."
It shows that you have found a way to integrate both energies successfully.

"BUT, how should I understand this conjunction when I do a synastry? If someone's planet or luminary conjuncts it, it would be in Capricorn which is ruled by Saturn anyway so they might LIKE having contact with my Saturn, but would that make my Jupiter annoying?"
Nno, not necessarily. Actually I think this might serve them well.
They have the support of Jupiter, the fun, but in the rather controlled and not overbearing way they need, and the stability Saturn can provide.
And for you it would touch you at the deepest point in your soul.

however of course it depends how their luminariy is integrated in their own chart.

"And what about a square? Would it make a difference if their planet is squaring from Libra (my 12th or 1st houses) or from Aries (6th/7th)?"
I think the square to Libra would be probably easier to accept, the square to ARies would be very difficult (SAturn is exalted in Libra and in detriment in Aries).
however the square of Saturn to a luminary can put quit some stress on them, though it also often occurs in long lasting relationships. It really depnds how their own relationship to Saturn is.
If they have their luminary conjunct Saturn in Libra for example, it might be exactly what they need, even though the intensity of it still can be tough.

BTW even if your planets are in balance, they do not cancel each other out. They are always both in play.

posted July 28, 2013 01:15 PM            

"Secondly, it is not easy to project how it will be felt, without an actual example, as it always also depends on the other`s chart.
However I will try my best..."
Thank you!!! Your explanation of the differences between angles and how readily they're noticeable to others is very helpful.

"Taken together and if you can get them to stop the squabbling, they can make for a great balance. Maybe the cautiousness of Saturn will win out though, as not only is it at home in Capricorn, and it also means that the ruler of the IC itself (Saturn) is in the 4th house. That is deep, but in the careful way Saturn is.
Saturn might also be having the last word, because Jupiter listens to him. . . Ah yes, Jupiter listens to Saturn, as Saturn is the dispositor (as natural ruler of Capricorn)."
Now I'm picturing my Jupiter as a jovial large-breed dog on a leash trying to "jolly" a morose Saturnine master into a better mood. Hmmm. Come to think of it, I DO feel like I have to "work at" the Jupiter a bit more. Yes, it DOES feel like Saturn has the upper hand, but he's quite fond of his "pet" and likes to keep him happy; he understands that he needs some "jollying".

posted July 28, 2013 01:48 PM            

"however of course it depends how their luminariy is integrated in their own chart."
I need more help understanding this such as what could trigger problems. I'd like to grasp this in general, but as a "learning tool" I'll be specific about a current interest: Cappy Sun in my 4th tight on my IC/Jupiter/Saturn which he has squared by his Aries Moon falling in my 7th house right on my Part of Fortune. His Aries Moon is also in a tight square to my IC/Jupiter/Saturn. He's very "Jupitarian" with a Mercury/Venus conjunction in Sagittarius. I don't have his birth time (sigh) but I'd be in stunned disbelief if he didn't have Leo rising which would put his Mercury/Venus in his 5th and his Moon in his 9th. Everything in his chart seems to "fit" so well with everything that I know about him, his interests, his career, etc. In sum, he really fits my relationship "ideal". His Saturn (solar dispositor and possibly his chart ruler as well) is in early Pisces. The ONLY aspect that his Saturn makes in his chart is an out-of-sign sextile to the late Saggy Mercury-Venus conjunction. The only other possible aspects to his Saturn could be from ASC/DES or MC/IC depending on birth time.

"I think the square to Libra would be probably easier to accept, the square to ARies would be very difficult (SAturn is exalted in Libra and in detriment in Aries)." Darn!!! As stated, my 7th house ruler is Mars in Cancer. I thought that an Aries Moon would make a nice (compliment? not quite sure what the correct term is) to that. Sigh.

"however the square of Saturn to a luminary can put quit some stress on them, though it also often occurs in long lasting relationships." And I suppose his Aries Moon doesn't need any more stress if it's already squared by his own Sun. Or does that actually make it easier since he's used to having his Moon stressed from that angle? Please help me understand.

"BTW even if your planets are in balance, they do not cancel each other out. They are always both in play." Yes, I can see that now. Thanks so much for sharing your insights/experience and helping me to gain a better understanding! Much appreciated!!.

posted July 28, 2013 04:50 PM            

"Now I'm picturing my Jupiter as a jovial large-breed dog on a leash trying to "jolly" a morose Saturnine master into a better mood."
LOL

" Hmmm. Come to think of it, I DO feel like I have to "work at" the Jupiter a bit more. Yes, it DOES feel like Saturn has the upper hand, but he's quite fond of his "pet" and likes to keep him happy; he understands that he needs some "jollying"."
That`s a good metaphor actually.

"There's a "family history" reason for this that I don't want state out here in cyberspace."
You donīt have to. It`s interesting though how just a simple sentence triggered that memory and "stuff" in you. You have good awareness of it though.

And honestly? I think everyone has parental issues. Different ones of course.

posted July 28, 2013 05:27 PM            

"Cappy Sun in my 4th tight on my IC/Jupiter/Saturn which he has squared by his Aries Moon falling in my 7th house right on my Part of Fortune. His Aries Moon is also in a tight square to my IC/Jupiter/Saturn. He's very "Jupitarian" with a Mercury/Venus conjunction in Sagittarius."

Too much information, my head is going to explode.

Visuals are easier to grasp.

But trying here.

The first information that goes throug my filters are these:

- the guy has a square between the luminaries (possibly a conflict between the way he feels and acts or simply is; since it is between luminaries it is corestuff in his chart)

- this Sun-Moon-square overlays your angles, not only that but the 4th and 7th house, the angles very directly dealing with relationship
(you are strongly affected by him; being around you will bring his Sun and Moon strongly to the forefront. It will be what you notice about him straight away)

Time for a breathing pause and think about the little but pivotal information we gathered.

His luminaries are affected, your angles are (is one of his luminary conjunct Ic or DSC in your chart btw?) - since this happens on your receptive angles, it could be that he might not notice the powerful effect he has on you, or might not be effected equally (it is different if we talk about the ASC and MC).

It is a possibility, but does not have to be true.

He has got that tension between cardinal earth and cardinal fire; one thing we already know for sure, he is not a "weakling". There is quite a lot of steam, energy, and determinedness, sometimes singlemindedness inside of him. Could be steamrollerlike. (His Sag-stellium might soften that a bit; giving him a little more flexible approach, but the steeliness of his will is still very much at the core of his being).

Next what I would check is, where does it fall in his chart? What does it rule? (Drat, no birthtime, so we can`t say that - but hey wait a moment! Then we do not even know IF the Sun-Moon-square is really active, as Moon is timesensitive. The signbackground probably will remain, so there is an inner tension or conflict, but how acutely it will be felt or expressed depends on his birthtime and placement of the Moon)

So we can`t unfortuantley check which areas are affected for him.

So next, I want to know what in your chart relates to his Sun and Moon.
For him to experience this as significant, there need to be strong aspects to your planets (Significant does not mean easy; but if he really has Sun-Moon-square, he couldnīt do anything with easy anyway).

So here we have your Jupiter and Saturn conjunct his Sun.
Very strong aspects there. You are very supportive of him (his biggest fan?) and Saturn-Sun also is, well not even glue, it is cement!

Now how does he like it?
Well imagine a chart with Gemini-Sun opposite Uranus, having such a synastric conjunction to Saturn. Can you feel the difference?

Now here we have a Capricorn Sun, thus his Sun listens to Saturn, and your Saturn conjuncts his Sun. So this is familiar territory to him. The Self should be Saturnian, that makes sense (as what is in our natal always feels natural to us).

However, but then we see his Aries-Moon getting this square by Saturn (don`t concern yourself too much with the Jupiter-square; Jupiter-aspects are providing a lot of ease, even in squares; the only problematic thing about them could be overdoing something, but as soon as you have tension aspects from Saturn, URanus, Neptune or Pluto these will definitely call for more attention. ).

Anyway, ouch. Not onlyis your Saturn squaring his Moon, but his Moon is in Aries, and Saturn is in detriment there. No this Moon does not like Saturn AT ALL (exception being if his own Saturn was aspecting his Moon).
So your Saturn plays into that inner tension of his Sun-Moon-square.

While his Sun welcomes your Saturn, his more emotional side does not. Suddenly things get too overbearing, too stuffy, too SERIOUS. Yes, he knows he wants serious (Sun in Capricorn), but he needs more fire, zest, enthusiasm (especially with the fire element being so pronounce by Moon in Aries and the Sag-planets).

BTW where is his Mars?

The interesting thing here is though, that his Moon in Aries and your Mars in Cancer are in mutual reception, which gives a weird understanding for each other`s vulnerabilities.

With that Saturn - Moon square he could be quite vulnerable to feeling too easily critiscized, even if you will jsut be practical or rational.
Aries Moon does not want rational or cautious, Aries Moon wants to ignite a spark and not think about any kin!d of possible limitations. And definitely not about rules others dictate or - God forbid, society! Eww!

(this is on an emotional level though, so it can go totally unconsciously)

On the positive side though, these Saturn aspects provide the potential for stability, and making things having a long duration.

"The ONLY aspect that his Saturn makes in his chart is an out-of-sign sextile to the late Saggy Mercury-Venus conjunction. The only other possible aspects to his Saturn could be from ASC/DES or MC/IC depending on birth time."

We would have liked to see an aspect of his Saturn to his Moon here, or even Saturn in Cancer.
So here the whole weight of Saturn has to be carried by his Cappy Sun.
It is a bit about balance, and it could be that your Saturn is too serious for him in the end (though probably could also act as structuring stabilizing influence).

I would carefully examine the dispositors of your SAturn and his Moon, too.
Sometimes that helps bridging the differences.
For you this is clearly Capricorn, but where is his Mars?
if his Mars was in any way connected to Saturn, or in the dignity of Saturn, that might help.

" Darn!!! As stated, my 7th house ruler is Mars in Cancer. I thought that an Aries Moon would make a nice (compliment? not quite sure what the correct term is) to that. Sigh."

Yes, there is this understanding as I said. Mutual reception. And also in terms of your 7th house of partnership. However I think it would be more appealing to you than him.
Your ARies DESC of course loves his Aries Moon.
However HIS Moon gets the square of your Saturn, as we have just analyzed. It might be more difficult for him. That doesn`t rule out attraction though.

" And I suppose his Aries Moon doesn't need any more stress if it's already squared by his own Sun. Or does that actually make it easier since he's used to having his Moon stressed from that angle? Please help me understand."
As contradicting this sounds, it could be both.

I think though that he wouldn`t be really touched by a too harmonious synastry. That just isn`t what he carries inside. With this inner tension in him he probably will seek or be able to live a more challenging synastry as well.
But of course there is a point it can get too much.
It would be good if there were some harmonizing aspects, too (to his Moon I mean, from your chart).

And even if not, possibly there are other "green-light-areas" in your synatry.

posted July 28, 2013 08:41 PM            

I think I mixed up the terminology :eyeroll: I was thinking of her post on masculine/feminine ideals: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/211116.html
I get confused because looking to the sign of my Mars for my masculine ideal and looking to the ruler of my 7th amounts to the same thing for me!

"- the guy has a square between the luminaries (possibly a conflict between the way he feels and acts or simply is; since it is between luminaries it is corestuff in his chart) - this Sun-Moon-square overlays your angles, not only that but the 4th and 7th house, the angles very directly dealing with relationship (you are strongly affected by him; being around you will bring his Sun and Moon strongly to the forefront. It will be what you notice about him straight away)"

Yep, you've got that right on all fronts. It's that internal conflict about him that I find so fascinating. He's like a Franklin stove -- very fiery in a practical way.

"His luminaries are affected, your angles are (is one of his luminary conjunct Ic or DSC in your chart btw?) - since this happens on your receptive angles, it could be that he might not notice the powerful effect he has on you, or might not be effected equally (it is different if we talk about the ASC and MC)."

That's good for me to keep in mind. His Sun is within 1 degree of my IC regardless of his birth time.

"He has got that tension between cardinal earth and cardinal fire; one thing we already know for sure, he is not a "weakling". There is quite a lot of steam, energy, and determinedness, sometimes singlemindedness inside of him. Could be steamrollerlike. (His Sag-stellium might soften that a bit; giving him a little more flexible approach, but the steeliness of his will is still very much at the core of his being)."

Oh, yah. Definitely!

"Next what I would check is, where does it fall in his chart? What does it rule? (Drat, no birthtime, so we can`t say that - but hey wait a moment! Then we do not even know IF the Sun-Moon-square is really active, as Moon is timesensitive. The signbackground probably will remain, so there is an inner tension or conflict, but how acutely it will be felt or expressed depends on his birthtime and placement of the Moon)"

I've checked Moon position from 12:01am to 11:59pm and his Moon is between 12Aries15 and 25Aries25. His Sun is between 19Cap48 and 20Cap49. They're definitely in square, only the strength of the orb in question; it couldn't be more than about 7-1/2 degrees. And, honestly, the guy LOOKS like a lion! I'd be dumbfounded if he didn't have Leo rising. If I'm right, that would put the square pretty tight. I'd love to get his exact birth time just to see if I'm right.

"So we can`t unfortuantley check which areas are affected for him."

I know

"So next, I want to know what in your chart relates to his Sun and Moon. For him to experience this as significant, there need to be strong aspects to your planets (Significant does not mean easy; but if he really has Sun-Moon-square, he couldnīt do anything with easy anyway)."

Yah, that's part of the appeal here on my side. I LIKE the complexity. I'd be bored with someone who didn't have internal conflict. Coincidently, we both have tight natal Venus-Mars squares. His Mars is in Virgo within 3d. Mine is out-of-sign from Venus at 27Pis59 in my 6th house to Mars Rx at 0Can13 in the 9th. Interesting that -- 6th house corresponds to Virgo and 9th house corresponds to Sagitarrius. It also gives as a tight DOUBLE Venus-Mars opposition with a very tight Venus-Venus square. And Venus and Mars are rulers of my ASC/DES. SH*T I wish I had his #@* birth time!!!

"So here we have your Jupiter and Saturn conjunct his Sun. Very strong aspects there. You are very supportive of him (his biggest fan?) and Saturn-Sun also is, well not even glue, it is cement!"

Righter than you know! And his Saturn falls within 4D of my South Node and within 2D of my Chiron. (Off topic: I enjoyed reading about your parents' Saturn/South Node conjunction in the archives. My parents were originally from Poland as well.)

"Now how does he like it?" GOD, I wish I knew! :whimper:

"Now here we have a Capricorn Sun, thus his Sun listens to Saturn, and your Saturn conjuncts his Sun. So this is familiar territory to him. The Self should be Saturnian, that makes sense (as what is in our natal always feels natural to us).
However, but then we see his Aries-Moon getting this square by Saturn . . .
Anyway, ouch. Not only is your Saturn squaring his Moon, but his Moon is in Aries, and Saturn is in detriment there. No this Moon does not like Saturn AT ALL (exception being if his own Saturn was aspecting his Moon). So your Saturn plays into that inner tension of his Sun-Moon-square."

And might throw off his inner equilibrium? What about if his Moon turned out to be in the 10th? Or his Saturn in the 1st? Would that also make a Saturn contact easier for him? I'm trying to grasp the theory here.

"While his Sun welcomes your Saturn, his more emotional side does not. Suddenly things get too overbearing, too stuffy, too SERIOUS. Yes, he knows he wants serious (Sun in Capricorn), but he needs more fire, zest, enthusiasm (especially with the fire element being so pronounce by Moon in Aries and the Sag-planets)."

And my ONLY fire placements are Moon and Uranus (solar dispositor) in Leo.

"BTW where is his Mars?"

Virgo, tightly squaring his Mercury/Venus :eyeroll: Yah, he's got the "scorched earth" down REALLY well. His Mars lands in my 12th house, his Mercury/Venus in my 3rd.

"The interesting thing here is though, that his Moon in Aries and your Mars in Cancer are in mutual reception, which gives a weird understanding for each other`s vulnerabilities."

Yah, I feel very tender towards that fiery Moon of his. I don't WANT to hurt it or make it upset. My Jupiter wants to make it happy and indulge it

"With that Saturn - Moon square he could be quite vulnerable to feeling too easily critiscized, even if you will just be practical or rational. Aries Moon does not want rational or cautious, Aries Moon wants to ignite a spark and not think about any kind of possible limitations. And definitely not about rules others dictate or - God forbid, society! Eww! (this is on an emotional level though, so it can go totally unconsciously)"

Aries Moon wants what he wants when he wants it! Cute in small quantities, but I can just feel my Saturn putting on the brakes, or at least hoping his own Sun will

"We would have liked to see an aspect of his Saturn to his Moon here, or even Saturn in Cancer. So here the whole weight of Saturn has to be carried by his Cappy Sun."

Curious to know how a "Pisces flavored" Cappy Sun would play out. Then again, he's turned making music and painting into a livelihood, so I guess I've just answered my own question!

"It is a bit about balance, and it could be that your Saturn is too serious for him in the end (though probably could also act as structuring stabilizing influence)."

He has his Saturn on my Chiron, in my 5th house. Maybe we can negotiate for an exchange of hostages

"I would carefully examine the dispositors of your SAturn and his Moon, too. Sometimes that helps bridging the differences. For you this is clearly Capricorn, but where is his Mars? If his Mars was in any way connected to Saturn, or in the dignity of Saturn, that might help."

His Mars in Virgo at about 26D would trine his Sun. His Mars would also trine my Saturn with a 3D orb. Hmmm. That actually sounds pretty good. In fact, we'd have a MUTUAL Mars-Saturn trine -- his Mars to my Saturn and my Mars to his Saturn. :happydance:

"Your ARies DESC of course loves his Aries Moon. However HIS Moon gets the square of your Saturn, as we have just analyzed. It might be more difficult for him. That doesn`t rule out attraction though."

That's what I was afraid of. I rather hoped the Jupiter would help balance. Oh, well.

"As contradicting this sounds, it could be both. I think though that he wouldn`t be really touched by a too harmonious synastry. That just isn`t what he carries inside. With this inner tension in him he probably will seek or be able to live a more challenging synastry as well."

Actually, that's very much what I was thinking from my own internal tension. He seems the type that takes those internal tensions and creates beautiful, passionate, fiery works of art from it -- they inspire him.

"But of course there is a point it can get too much. It would be good if there were some harmonizing aspects, too (to his Moon I mean, from your chart)."

Going by the possible range of his Moon for that date, it COULD be trine my Uranus in Leo or sextile my Sun or Mercury in Aquarius.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for all the time on this. You're been very helpful. I believe I've gotten a better understanding now of how to go about analyzing how my Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in synastry.

posted July 29, 2013 05:29 AM            

Def. a square the.

" And, honestly, the guy LOOKS like a lion! "
Well, that can be misleading.

We were once discussing the possible ASC of someone here on LL, and the majority was sure he would have a Leo ASC (including myself); his looks, his manierism, his Self-presentation. Everything.

Well in the end I walked up to him and asked him for his birthtime. Turned out he was having a Pisces ASC. But his Sun was on the MC - so that is where the Leonine vibe might have been coming from.

"I'd love to get his exact birth time just to see if I'm right."
Well, why donīt you ask him?

"Coincidently, we both have tight natal Venus-Mars squares."
I donīt believe in coincidences. And that one is definitely a mirror-pattern, triggering resonance.

"It also gives as a tight DOUBLE Venus-Mars opposition with a very tight Venus-Venus square"
Sounds undeniably hot.

But could also be the Laurence Olivier-VivienLeigh-kind of hot (in the end too hot to handle, but unforgettable for both of them).

"And his Saturn falls within 4D of my South Node"
I forgot to mention. Conjunctions and squares to either node need to always be accessed, too.

And yes, I know how they say Saturn-SN is a separative aspect, I havenīt seen it like this though.
There is a celebrity I share a DW Saturn-SN-conjunction with (one is exact, the other 5 degrees). I WISHED it was more separative.

But it is entirely possible that since my parents share this aspect and I experienced its athmosphere that I am subconsciously drawn to that karmic energy.

For me however it is a "hard to let go" aspect, even if you know you should.

"And might throw off his inner equilibrium? "
Yes.

Though his inner equilibrium isn`t that present on itself either. Hard to feel equilibrium with the Sun-Moon-square. But the tension makes someone productive and creative, as the energy has to be expressed someway.

"What about if his Moon turned out to be in the 10th?"
Moon in 10th could help.
Though I am not so sure anymore about the comparision of houses and signs. I know that I used to see them as exchangeable (like Venus in Aries resonating with Venus in 1st house for example), but to be honest I have seen only little evidence of it in real life.

There were instances when I noticed how an 8th house Venus seemed to have a great understanding of a Scorpio.Venus though, but usually htere were other indicators of this present.

As of now it seems there is a stronger correlation between planets and signs, with the houses somehow being different.

Well, I am an example for this, with my stellium in 1st house, it should be similiar to Aries, but it`s not.
my Venus isn`t Aries-like at all despite being in 1st house.

" Or his Saturn in the 1st? "
Saturn in 1st would give him a strong Saturnian vibe, which could help. However it is again more associated with his physicalSelf but not his emotional one.

"And my ONLY fire placements are Moon and Uranus (solar dispositor) in Leo."
Moon is always quite a biggie.

"Virgo,"
Well, that is at least an earthelement and should get along with Capricorn.
However I am not sure if it is enough.

"but I can just feel my Saturn putting on the brakes, or at least hoping his own Sun will"
That is how Saturn is thinking. Yes.

"His Mars would also trine my Saturn with a 3D orb."
No I wasnīt talking about synastry. Just basically saying if the dispositor of his Moon had a conjunction to Saturn, that might help a little.

" we'd have a MUTUAL Mars-Saturn trine -- his Mars to my Saturn and my Mars to his Saturn. :happydance:"
Interesting. How wide ar the orbs?

Since we have already found out that there is a tension between your strong Capricorn side and his Aries side, it is interesting that this comes up again in the aspects. Since it is harmonious aspects, maybe it gives you something to work with and come to some kind of an agreement (though it will never be an easy situation).

posted July 29, 2013 07:02 AM            

And with his SUN on my angle, he could simply be "leonized" to me by contact. However, everything I know of him seems to fit with the Leo rising, too.

"Well, why donīt you ask him?" I intend to do that next time I see him (if he even knows).

"I am not so sure anymore about the comparision of houses and signs. I know that I used to see them as exchangeable (like Venus in Aries resonating with Venus in 1st house for example), but to be honest I have seen only little evidence of it in real life. . . As of now it seems there is a stronger correlation between planets and signs, with the houses somehow being different. "

That's helpful to know.

"Saturn in 1st would give him a strong Saturnian vibe, which could help. However it is again more associated with his physicalSelf but not his emotional one."

And he just doesn't have that!

""we'd have a MUTUAL Mars-Saturn trine -- his Mars to my Saturn and my Mars to his Saturn. :happydance:" Interesting. How wide ar the orbs?"

About 2 degrees for my Mars to his Saturn and less than 3 degrees for his Mars to my Saturn.

"how well do you know him btw?"

I know quite a bit ABOUT him, but that's not the same thing. Here's a cut from a previous thread:

WOW! I did a composite of my natal and an "event" where I met a performer and we made eye contact that lasted for about 10 seconds that left me tongue tied; I've been fixated on him ever since. I could estimate the time of that encounter to within about a 15 minute time frame. The transits to the composite of my natal and this "event" (only counting conjunctions) are as follows:
T Venus conj. C Antivertex - 0 deg. 4 min.
T Venus conj. C ASC - 1 deg. 39 min.
T Mars conj. C Pluto - 1 deg. 11 min.
T Nnode conj. C Sun - 1 deg. 0 min.
T Jupiter conj. C Uranus - 0 deg. 47'
T Pluto conj. C Neptune - 0 deg. 39 min.
T Moon conj. C Venus - 0 deg. 52' (used Planetwatcher to get Moon's degree for the time).

The composite geometry itself is quite shocking with THREE separate kites:

Grand trine of Moon-Mercury-Chiron with Mars opposing Chiron, all with less than 3 degrees of orb.

Grand trine of Moon-Chiron-Pluto with Neptune opposing Moon, all within 5 degrees of orb.

Grand trine of ASC-Sun/Mercury-Jupiter with Venus opposing Sun, all within 5 degrees of orb.

AND there is a Grand Cross of Venus opposing Sun/Mercury and Mars opposing Chiron with Sun/Mercury-Venus-Mars-Chiron all squaring each other.

The Vertex is conjunct the DES, so those axes are right on top of each other within 2 degrees of orb.

The Nnode is conjunct the IC, so those axes are also aligned within 5 degrees of orb.

I've never seen anything like this! I'm holding my breath until he performs again in my area. I've GOT to meet him again!!!

posted July 29, 2013 10:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jkitty:
"secondary houses"

I think I mixed up the terminology :eyeroll: I was thinking of her post on masculine/feminine ideals: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/211116.html
I get confused because looking to the sign of my Mars for my masculine ideal and looking to the ruler of my 7th amounts to the same thing for me!

---

Hi Jkitty,

Looks like I'm late to this thread.

Ceridwen's already done such a thorough job of answering your questions, I feel like there's not much I can add, but I'll give it a shot. Forgive me if I rehash some of what's already been pointed out.

Yay! Someone else dug up my old thread on Masculine/Feminine ideals...

Yeah, when you look up the house ruled by the sign that Mars is in for women, and Venus is in for me, it gives you more details on what we're attracted to specifically about the opposite sex.

Jkitty, If a guy has his Capricorn Sun in the house ruled by the Sign of your Mars, this indicates that he naturally behaves in a way that fits with your taste in male behavior. He would press your buttons as a 'guy', and you find his style appealing in this way.

His Moon in your 7th is a good sign also. Your Mars ruling the Dsc, is in Cancer, and this fits well with his Moon being the placement in your 7th house. I believe Ceri pointed this out already.

About the Saturn/Jupiter configuration, with this conjunct the Ic, it describes how you'll act (or even just be) when you're in your own personal haven. When you retreat from the outside world, you become a practical minded realist, and this would dominate with Saturn dignified in Capricorn and ruling Jupiter also in Capricorn. But there'd also be an added burst of humor and positivity there, from Jupiter's side. Even if you feel the need to 'get real' once you're safe and sound, getting 'real' dosen't mean forgetting to laugh, and or have a positive attitude. The vibe I get here is a very level-headed approach to things when you're in the confines of your personal space, and a tendency to shear you're idealism and sense of duty with those that are, or like, family to you.

With Uranus in quincunx to this configuration in Leo in the 11th, there is an odd disjunction between your social persona, and how you really are at home. When in group settings you have a fun, effervescent, quirky, sort of persona. You also come across socially as very open-minded and curious. At home you're more no-nonsense and sensible, as well as 'jolly' in a sense.

In your private haven, you'll be more honest about what you consider stupid and irresponsible, and your right/wrong opinions, and beliefs. If the same person we're to view how you act in a social circle versus how you act with close-knit loved ones, or in private, they might scratch their heads and wonder "Is this really the same person?" . The difference in approach between these two areas of life are a bit incongruent.

My guess is that when the Uranus to Saturn/Jupiter quincunx is activated in synastry, that this incongruence comes into play. A person with an Aries Moon trine your 11th house Leo Uranus may enjoy the smooth flow they have with you, when the two of you are just hanging out together, outside of your personal world. There'd be an electric intrigue there. However, when they try to come closer, into your more private inner world (A classic example would be moving in together), they'll find themselves coming up against the square from your Saturn/Jupiter conjunction in the 4th house. Their spontaneous style of emotional expression would clash with you’re more controlled, practical attitudes at home. There may be a blockage here, with need for compromise of some kind. Squares take effort but they are not impossible to navigate. Of course, with this guy we don't know how close of a trine/square we're going to have, since we don't know the exact degree of his Moon.

With Sun square Moon in his chart he has his own dynamic inner tension, between the wild force and fire of behind the emotions of an Aries Moon, with the controlled, 'planning' tendencies of a Capricorn Sun. My guess is he has a sort of 'pressed' intensity about him. This inner tension that he has would fall across your 7th and 4th houses. If his Moon trines you're Uranus from your 7th house, you'll find him likable, and fascinating, in how he expresses his inner-child and vulnerable self. But this conflicts somewhat with his sense of identity... As well as your sense of how you want things at home.

His Sun, which is his will, and determination, fall into your 4th house. He naturally validates what you need to feel secure and safe, and his intentions match your need to feel comfortable, and have a sense of belonging with another. It's an instinctive feeling of closeness. However sometimes his Aries emotions would spill out in ways that you have resistance to, or feel uncomfortable about, even though you 'like' him, and find him interesting.

Overall...

There'd be a push/pull dynamic involving his Moon to your Cap Saturn/Jupiter and Leo Uranus, which highlights the difference between a superficial association and being 'super-tight'. This very push/pull would be reflected in his own personality. The private 'inner you' would welcome the strength and support of his Sun, but sometimes have issues with his emotional expression. The partnership/social you would, in contrast, enjoy, and have fondness for his Fire Moon. The quincunx of his Sun to your 11th house Uranus means his Capricorn side matches somewhat awkwardly with your 'social persona'. One possible manifestation of this is that there may be people in your social group that find the two of you an odd pair, at least in part. Or there may be a side to his nature that doesn't 'fit' exactly right with your friends.

His Sun conjunct your Saturn/Jupiter indicates that his identity, and sense of intention meshes well with your sense of duty, as well as your positivity, and morel outlook. He'll likely appreciate how your attitude in these areas supports what he's aiming for, or would like to achieve in life. Since his Sun is in Capricorn itself, that fact that Saturn is on the Sun should not be too much of a bother at all. And the Sun always enjoys Jupiter, as they are both fire planets. So I don't see either Saturn or Jupiter as a 'problem' in conjunction to a Capricorn Sun. These two planets conjunct give a balanced, level-headed approach between optimism, and a 'better safe then sorry' attitude. He is likely to agree with and appreciate this balanced side of you nature.

This synastry indicates that there'll be issues to overcome in a relationship, but it's far from completely unmanageable. The Sun in your 4th house would make for good 'glue', and his Moon in your 7th encourages his suitability as a partner for you.

We'd need the rest of the synastry to get a full picture, though.

Back to analyzing synastry in general...

When I'm doing a synastry comparison the first thing I look for is direct 5th, 7th, and 8th house synastry. Both house overlays and house-ruler aspects. I also take into account Vertex connections which are a favorite of mine too...

After I've checked out these, I'll check the secondary houses for the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, for enhancements to what I've already found. The secondary 7th house especially can provide some exciting 'hits' if they are missing elsewhere in the synastry. This is where you take the Dsc sign, and look at the house ruled by that sign.

Another 'secondary' that I check is the Mars/Venus thing. I've seen some pretty exciting 'hits' in synastry with these too. They seem to relate to how we like the opposite sex to behave, and what we see as 'appropriate' and attractive in these terms. Our conceptions of gender really come into play here.

I guess a guy could check his Mars secondary house, if he wanted to know more about his preconceived notions of how he feels he should behave as a 'Man', so to speak. A women would do the same for her Venus secondary house to garner more on her own tendencies.

For asteroids, my personal favorites to check are Juno, Eros, and Psyche.

Hope that helped

posted July 29, 2013 11:37 AM            

"Yay! Someone else dug up my old thread on Masculine/Feminine ideals..."
And several others; I've been searching the archives using your name and Ceridwen's to educate myself. I admit some of it is over my head though.

All your insights into my Jupiter/Saturn and Uranus ring true for me.

"If his Moon trines you're Uranus from your 7th house, you'll find him likable, and fascinating, in how he expresses his inner-child and vulnerable self. But this conflicts somewhat with his sense of identity... As well as your sense of how you want things at home. "

Interestingly enough, I can't imagine wanting to set up house with ANYONE. I'd prefer a committed relationship in the s*xual sense but one where we just "visit" each other -- kind of like royalty with "his chambers" and "her chambers". Sure, come over and stay for a week or so, but DON'T move in!

"and a sense of belonging with another. It's an instinctive feeling of closeness."

Yes.

"Overall...There'd be a push/pull dynamic involving his Moon to your Cap Saturn/Jupiter and Leo Uranus, which highlights the difference between a superficial association and being 'super-tight'. This very push/pull would be reflected in his own personality."

And mine! I've got a Sun-Moon opposition, but I think mine is easier to deal with than his would be.

Since his Sun is in Capricorn itself, that fact that Saturn is on the Sun should not be too much of a bother at all. And the Sun always enjoys Jupiter, as they are both fire planets. So I don't see either Saturn or Jupiter as a 'problem' in conjunction to a Capricorn Sun. These two planets conjunct give a balanced, level-headed approach between optimism, and a 'better safe then sorry' attitude. He is likely to agree with and appreciate this balanced side of you nature."

That's good to know. Instinct told me he'd like the Jupiter, but your explanation of WHY makes so much sense.

"Back to analyzing synastry in general..." Ah, yes, this is what I need!

"When I'm doing a synastry comparison the first thing I look for is direct 5th, 7th, and 8th house synastry. Both house overlays and house-ruler aspects. I also take into account Vertex connections which are a favorite of mine too..." What about Vertex or Antivertex to a midpoint? Is that significant? Actually, my Vertex is continuously "on" since I've got Neptune sitting on the AV and my Sun squaring it. (Vertex at 11Tau11, Neptune at 11Sco17 and Sun at 11Aqu03, so it's REALLY tight!) So I guess I'm asking this question TWO different ways: How would it work for me with my "antenna always up" and how would it work in general for someone without a loaded Vertex? [HIS Venus-Mars mp would fall between 11Sco48 and 12Sco25 depending on time of birth so of course I'm curious ]

"After I've checked out these, I'll check the secondary houses for the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, for enhancements to what I've already found. The secondary 7th house especially can provide some exciting 'hits' if they are missing elsewhere in the synastry. This is where you take the Dsc sign, and look at the house ruled by that sign." So with Aquarius on my 5th, Aries on my 7th, and Taurus on my 8th, I'd check my 11th, 1st and 2nd -- is that right?

"Another 'secondary' that I check is the Mars/Venus thing. I've seen some pretty exciting 'hits' in synastry with these too. They seem to relate to how we like the opposite sex to behave, and what we see as 'appropriate' and attractive in these terms. Our conceptions of gender really come into play here."

This is where I've gotten a bit confused since my 7th house ruler IS Mars. But just to clarify, for Mars as ruler of my 7th I should look to my 1ST house since that's the natural home of Aries (Mars in general regardless of what sign occupies in a chart), but to get more understanding of my masculine ideal, I'd check my 4TH house since that's the natural home of Cancer (MY specific Mars placement) -- yes?

"I guess a guy could check his Mars secondary house, if he wanted to know more about his preconceived notions of how he feels he should behave as a 'Man', so to speak. A women would do the same for her Venus secondary house to garner more on her own tendencies." So my 6th house Venus in Pisces would look to the 12th house which is empty and has Virgo on the cusp. My Mercury is in Aquarius. So on the "convent to brothel scale", my body is firmly locked behind convent walls but my mind is "kinky". Yah, I think I can cover the Madonna-***** thing pretty well!

"For asteroids, my personal favorites to check are Juno, Eros, and Psyche." My brain is pretty full right now assimilating the basics, but I'll definitely keep those in mind!

"Hope that helped". Yes! Thanks so much!!

posted July 29, 2013 01:07 PM            

"And the Sun always enjoys Jupiter, as they are both fire planets."
Yes, exactly. I didn`t say too much about Jupiter in my last posts, because there is only so much I can say in one go.
So i concentrated on the "issues" or possible ones. However, honestly, having Jupiter in aspect with the luminaries or even angles or personal aspects is such a nice thing. And a conjunction to Sun is just delicious.
Jupiter definitely introduces an element of fun (or enjoyment), expansion and support.
It is not as electric as Uranus, but stimulating in his own way.

posted July 29, 2013 01:30 PM            

"I did a composite of my natal and an "event" where I met a performer and we made eye contact that lasted for about 10 seconds that left me tongue tied;"
Sounds a bit like my story.

Just in my case I didn`t even really pay attention to him at first. he just coincidentally was on the castlist of some concerts I visited (because of other people), and he made me feel uncomfortable, because he seemed to be aware of me and in fact often noticed me even before I did notice him. LOL
He also made the dark room lighten up like there was suddenly a sun in there, and for some reason he mad me feel more myself.

After that repeated experience (it took time to sink in for me, at least 2 years), and me thinking to have really lost it now, I decided to see him on stage and really just to see if he was still that good in a coherent play/ musical.
I was captivated, and for totally differnt things I usually like in performers.
But it was really just his performing skills I admired.
Well, after the very emotional performance, I should simply have been going back to my hotel, and I tried, several times, but somehow ended up at the stage door. (had you asked me before, I would not even have been able to say where it was).

So, I decidd that I could wait a few minutes there and see if he comes out and simply ask him for his birthtime. And for me to prove to myself that I just liked his stagepersona and that he is a very ordinary guy in real life.

Well, after some minutes I realized how crazy that was, (I am not waiting at stage doors! Ever. Not a fangirl!) and just wanted to turn and leave, when the door opened, and he came out.
There were some other girls there, but he looked at me and came straight at me, until the girls stepped into his way.
Anyway it was a bizarre encounter/meeting, I guess I have told about it before.
Actually he did call his parents to ask them for his birthtime. lol
But not going into details here, it was just a chat with a performer, but the encounter left me shaken and as I slowly came to realize forever changed.
When I looked into his eyes, it was like coming home. Or at least like I had known him before, somehow it felt like childhood, too.
I later learned that he was growing up in the very city, my great grandmother was living and we were visiting at least twice every month, when I was a child.

Well, after that short encounter, which probably meant nothing to him, but turned MY world upside down, I went into hiding. Staged a disappearance act.
I certainly didn`t want to cross paths with him again.

Of course it never happens like I plan it, right?
Me hiding away lasted for 2 years, then I gave up, thinking he would not remember anyway, so I could show my face again.
So I showed up at a private concert of his in a very small tavern, and somehow managed to almost bump into him on the stairs.
The smile and greeting he gave me is certainly something I am going to treasure forever. HOwever I donīt really think he recognized me as the crazy astrology-woman. (lol), but he is just a friendly and open guy and was looking forward to his concert (this one would be the birth of his band and many concerts to follow).

I now and then attended concerts or performances, but didn`t talk to him again (I didn`t mean to bother him).
Oh wait, not entirely right. During one show he singled me out of audience, teasing and torturing me and challenging me (he had been looking for someone to volunteer in a game - and yes I knew that game from my childhood but somehow had the feeling only him and me ever played it before, considering the puzzled faceds of the rest of the audience. lol- and I had been staring very very interested at the column a the other side of the room, and he just couldn`t resist pointing that out, how much I was trying to ignore him. LOL)

Well, but apart from that, nothing, not really, yet when going to concerts I always maange to cross path with him before, usually in a distance, but it is like I am not supposed to stay invisible. And it feels so awkward to me.

However, as of know we are in ignoring mode again. LOL
I donīt even know if I should say Hello when I see him somewhere, cause I donīt really know him, yet I have of course met him once or twice, as superficial that was.

But as it is now I do not know how to react anymore.
He probably doesn`t care or donīt remember anymore, or doesn`t know either. I have no clue.

It is complciated. My Neptune conjunt his Mercury and squaring his Mars-Jupiter-conjunction in action.
I usually donīt act that evasive.

Add to that that after having seen him somewhere, I am constantly hearing his voice inside my own head, which maks it hard to sleep (our Psyches are conjunct by 1 degree).

And no, I donīt know what he is to me. I have given up finding a category for it. It is just weird. But still in a way it is fun, too.

posted July 29, 2013 02:23 PM            

My infatuation didn't happen immediately either. I've had one of his CDs for years (a store I was in "happened" to be playing it, I liked it, so I bought it). I enjoyed his music, thought of choreographing a dance solo for myself to one of his numbers, but never gave HIM a second though.

Spring 2012 one of my sisters was visiting me and we were listening to his CD while driving somewhere. She looked at the CD case and commented that "he's a good-looking guy". I STILL didn't give him another thought.

A few weeks after she left, I was listening to the CD again; this time I took a closer look and got curious. I researched him on-line to see what I could learn about him. Found some interviews, music videos, etc. It was the taped interviews that did it. I LIKED this guy. That's what prompted me to go see him perform live; I wanted to experience him for myself and see if I felt any actual chemistry or if their was something about him that would turn me off (I'm VERY easily turned off; my infatuations rarely last long. I think it's my Venus/Mars square or my Moon/Sun opposition that does it).

I purchased a VIP ticket which includes a sort of a "receiving line" with some of the performers after his show where they sign CDs and stuff. I wasn't really prepared for this. I should have held back to the end of the line so I could have taken some time to get him talking. Knowing how many people were waiting behind me, I didn't feel like I could engage him in any kind of meaningful conversation, so I basically thanked him and left.

Like you, I don't "do" the fan thing. I can't even bring myself to join Facebook to connect with him on his page like so many of his fans do. My Aquarian Sun REFUSES to be part of the crowd and my proud Leo Moon will not condescend to being cast among the commoners.

And so I wait biding my time for a second "skin" opportunity to present and agonize over all the possibilities that his chart may present.

On a side note: I DID have a weird experience just after exiting the theater with a woman who was trying to hook me up with her son. (This is what I get for attending a concert alone -- I get to be evaluated like potential breeding stock :rolleyes . It occurred to me that my "event chart/natal composite" could have included that, too, since it happened within moments of my leaving. But I tend to think that couldn't have been very significant since I brushed her off as quickly as possible and never considered meeting her son even for a moment. It was kind of flattering in an appalling sort of way, but what kind of man would need his mom to find him someone -- know what I mean?

Thanks again for sharing your story. It's SO nice to know you can relate

posted August 02, 2013 06:32 AM            

In this case MR conj (JP & SA) may require a lot more support from surrounding aspect to help you maintain balance.

Your greatest benefits, however, will be when planets are in sextile and trine that (JP conj SA). That is the kind of stuff that legends are made from.

Synastry aspects and transit aspects are equal aspects for the same date and time. I suggest that you investigate 2014 transits. You will be able to see your JP & SA in action.

http://risingpeople.wix.com/synastry-aspecting#!in-the-closet-astro-tools/c1s43

slowpoke

posted August 02, 2013 07:46 AM            

", I was listening to the CD again; this time I took a closer look and got curious."
Interestingly for you happened it the other way round than it did for me.
Well, usually when I started to like some performer, it also happened after some background-research for me, and I was taken by their interviews mostly. Cause nothing cools my interest more quickly than if someone is gullible or uncommunicative or I donīt know what.

In this case though it was different; the infatuation started when I met him, when I was exposed to his "physical energies". I don`t know how to really put it.
And at that time I certainly didn`t know anything about him.
#except that it drove me crazy that he felt as familiar as if he had always been a part of my life or as if I had known him or met him during my childhood and somehow forgot about it.

" I wanted to experience him for myself and see if I felt any actual chemistry or if their was something about him that would turn me off"
Yes, I find that important, too. Even though you can sense certain chemistry even if you donīt see someone live, if you do, something changes, or gets set in motion, set off. I don`t know. like a kickstart or something like that.

"(I'm VERY easily turned off; my infatuations rarely last long."

While unfortunately i can get a little obsessed (usually mentally though), it is also true for me, that i can get very easily turned off. Actually it is not easy to turn me ON to begin with.
Also, especially in terms of singers/ actors/ and such, I get bored easily.
And I hate boredom.

This is something that captivates me about Mr Sag, as well. He can be very goofy and even silly, sometimes almost annoyingly so (though he can also be extremely selfcritical, coming in a neatly wrapped ironical funny cover), but one thing he never is, is boring.

"I purchased a VIP ticket"
I did so, too, for the "Three musketeers" musical in november. But I did it by accident!
I just didn`t want to sit too far back, as this takes away from the theatrical experience for me, and only later noticed that sitting in 2nd row also entailed apparently having a VIP ticket, which includes:

- being personally welcomed before the show with champagne
- canapes during the intermission
- after the show: coctails and smalltalk with the leading actors.

Well, my first thought was to give back the tickets! I mean, I really didn`t know that before, I just wanted to see the show. LOL
I mean, I am not BUYING a right to talk to somone, I feel a little silly and pathetic doing that.
On the other hand, it seems to be a normal extra after certain events nowadays; hey after all I could have bought my right to talk to Ian Somerhalder and Paul Wesley last year as well.
As a matter of fact I had such a ticket for the Paul-Wesley-session, but knew from the beginning Iwouldn`t use it. I was instead listening to a lecture about the vampire cult throughout the centuries. lol

So I KNOW that it is pretty normal and just part of the job, doing these autograph sessions and panels and small talk thingies, during conventions, it is just when it comes to myself, I feel a little awkward about that.
On the other hand now that I have the ticket it would be een more silly to NOT use it, right?

" I didn't feel like I could engage him in any kind of meaningful conversation, so I basically thanked him and left."
Yes, I understand that. Is there a chance you can meet him maybe offstage, at the stagedoor, when there are not so many fans around? Of course without disturbing him.
Actually when I did that, I also felt awkward about it, cause I thought he deserved having his time off after the performance he delivered. As a matter of fact it was me who ended our chat, cause I had realized that we had already been chatting for over 20 minutes, and I didn`t want to steal his time so to speak, keep him from being where he really wanted (with his colleagues for a drink I guess). I really didnīt mean to bother him in any way. And as a matter of fact I had already tried to end the talk after 10 minutes, (cause he did not know his birthtime anyway), but he told me to wait; greeted someone who passed us and whom he knew, then took out his phone, called his parents and while talking came back to me, and suddenly it was like almost half an hour later.
But really, I didn`t mean to steal his time, as I said.
As I know now, he is not a very introvert person, and likes to connect to many people. He is very different in this regard. lol

"I can't even bring myself to join Facebook to connect with him on his page like so many of his fans do"
Yes, he has a facebook page, too. I actually am registered with facebook, but only use it to read important informations/ announcements.

". My Aquarian Sun REFUSES to be part of the crowd and my proud Leo Moon will not condescend to being cast among the commoners"
LOL
I guess my Aquarian Moon might be responsible.

posted August 02, 2013 09:17 AM            

Me, too! I don't easily feel an attraction, but you already know what his planets are doing to my angles/rulers - gives an idea of just how strongly my chart needs to be activated for it to even register with me.

"But I did it by accident!
I just didn`t want to sit too far back"

Same here! I asked for a seat near the front on an aisle; I wanted to sit close enough to "feel his vibe". If it wasn't for the couple sitting next to me, I wouldn't have even known that it was a VIP ticket. I was in line to get the free CD that my ticket included and that became the receiving line. As I said, I was completely unprepared for the receiving line bit and missed out on anything that was included before the show began.
However, next time I WOULD buy the ticket on purpose for the chance to talk to him again (but I draw the line at flying to HAWAII to see his show!). I feel more comfortable with buying a VIP ticket then waiting by a stage door. I guess I feel like I've got a bit more control/guarantee/right/whatever. And your correct that it is now pretty common to do things like this, so it could be "all in a day's work" for him. I feel more comfortable with that than taking him by surprise.

posted August 02, 2013 12:03 PM            

But I just recently noticed how my Jupiter, my chartruler, sets off all his angle rulers. And since Jupiter squares my ASC, my ASC is part of the configurations as well.

"gives an idea of just how strongly my chart needs to be activated for it to even register with me."
Yes, I need REALLY strong aspects, too.

In this case I didn`t have a chance but had to pay attention.
There are so many things I could mention, buto ne thing that always makes me shake my had is how my DESC-ruler is conjunct his MC, and his DESC-ruler is conjunct my ASC.
Especially considering how we met - for him it was associated with his profession, while I was there as a private person- the astrology of it just leaves me speechless.

But that is just the scratching of the surface.

Angles, anglerulers, luminaries especially.

" I feel more comfortable with that than taking him by surprise."
Nay, no surprise there.
It is pretty common in Europe - at least in Germany and Austria- for fans to gather at the stagedoors, and respectfully (most of the times) ask for a photo or an autograph or something like that.
Actors who donīt like that will usually either say that they donīt like that or taking the frontdoor as a matter of fact

But even taking that into account, I think I wouldn`t have talked to him. I was practically on my way out again, and I would not have said a word (but silently just walked away no matter how silly THAT would have seemed :laughing , if it hadn`t been for him approaching me and taking me by surprise.

posted August 02, 2013 12:58 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[BIt is pretty common in Europe - at least in Germany and Austria- for fans to gather at the stagedoors, and respectfully (most of the times) ask for a photo or an autograph or something like that.[/B]

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We're much more mercenary here in America. Performers want to get PAID for schmoozing with their fans, hence the premium ticket price. It's like a form of prostitution or something; if you're going to kiss the butts of your fans, you don't just give it away Honestly, I think the Euro way is much more charming and gracious.

posted August 02, 2013 03:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
Ceri, I'd like to backtrack for a moment. When I mentioned that I thought he had a Leo ascendant, I based that on more than just his appearance. It was actually based more on things he stated about himself in a print interview that he did several years back, so it was more like an attempt at chart rectification. If I posted excerpts from that interview and shared my reasoning, would you take a look at that and see what you think?

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For a chart rectification you need even more than that.
At least 5-10 important events in his life, and then we can try a rectification starting with Leo as possible ASC, seeing if it fits.

posted August 02, 2013 03:35 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
It's like a form of prostitution or something;

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That is actually what I had been thinking about that when I saw I had bought a VIP ticket and what that entails. That I don`t want to support prostitution.
I guess I tend to overdramatize sometimes. lol

Well, as you can see we are adapting more and more to the American ways, but in the normal shows, it really is like this, fans can try to talk to the performers after the show and either they want to, or they won`t. Free will.

Personally have never asked for a photograph or autograph, cause I am not realy interested in that, and if that is what I need to start a talk, something`s wrong (for me).

The few times I did that (I think 2 times before in all my life. lol) it was only to thank someone for the great show and give a feedback to certain points.

I didn`t do that for a long time, cause I thought what would anyone care about what you are thnking, why bothering them with your opinion?

But my friend, who is a dancer (nowadays semi-professional, but she has had her exam at the Royal academy of dance), once told me how imporant it is for a performer to get a feedback that is more than just blind applause. Something that tells them what exactly it was thy did well, and how she would never experience that as bothering (if the viewer who came to her was serious and thoughtful and respectful about it.)

Ironically he stated the very same thing in a n interview of recent years.

I thought this was an interesting point; I never had thought about it this way.
But I experienced it myself after writing a little theatre piece for church and later on for school and my pupils performing it, and I realized that as nice as the applause was, the verbal feedback was more important; for the kids of course, but also realized that it was very important for me, having parents come up to me giving their opinion on certain aspects of the show, or even of the way I teach.

It certainly broadened my understanding about the importance of feedback; certainly not for all people (some want to be left alone I guess), but then again I am not a true introvert I guess.

While I may seem so, and keep a lot under the surface (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus are all below the horizon), I get the feeling that I am not really introvert, maybe more shy or hesitant sometimes, but then again except for Cappy Venus, my personal planets are all in Sag and Moon in Aquarius).

posted August 02, 2013 03:55 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
For a chart rectification you need even more than that.
At least 5-10 important events in his life, and then we can try a rectification starting with Leo as possible ASC, seeing if it fits.

For events marriage, death of parents, moving , illness, promotion or something like this are good ones to incorporate.

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