posted August 01, 2013 11:30 AM            

" looked at charts without the trans-Saturn planets;"
Yes I do that at times, too. Though in my own chart it leavs me pretty much without aspects at all. lol

"The midpoint example you gave is very helpful, too. Am I right to assume that the midpoints of stressful aspects in our charts (our personal squares and oppositions) would be VERY sensitive points in a synastry?"
Yes, you can BET on that.
Really.
It is like Dawn explains with the semisquare/ square. Put a planet at the midpoint and the whole thing will explode (according to the symbolism of the connected planets).

" For instance, my Sun/Neptune square from 11 Aquarius to 11 Scorpio would make someone's personal planet in hard aspect to 26 Sagittarius indicative of a person who could "clarify my identity" or something like that? Or in other words someone who could help me reconcile that internal tension, at least when they're around?"

You tell ME! Am I having that effect on you?

posted August 01, 2013 12:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
You tell ME! Am I having that effect on you?

My Sun-Mercury-conjunction is on 25-26 Sagittarius.

---

Heck, YAH! The way you express yourself (Mercury/Sun) helps me gain a clearer (less Neptunian fuzziness) understanding of myself (Sun). COOL!

posted August 01, 2013 01:37 PM            

"If MY strong Neptune (1st house, exact on AV, point of fixed-cardinal T-square with my Sun and Moon, and having my chart ruler in Pisces) conjuncts (within 1-1/2 degree orb) the midpoint of a certain someone's Venus-Mars square, I could be his s*xual fantasy?"

Yes, it could be, I guess. I am always a bit careful if it is the outer planets triggering the midpoint. however, they can bring a lot of intensity into it (albeit on a more unpersonal level maybe, or trans-personal).

I`d like to see your exact degrees though.

In your case it seems to be that you have the midpoint picture of Neptune=Sun/Moon, which speaks of a high level of idealism concerning relationship (and your own identity). Also gives that need for spirituality of course. However as always with Neptune it can also be about confusion, illusion and sometimes even dissolution / erosion.
However speaking synastrically of course there comes a great deal of charism, idealization and fascination with it.
Maybe it could also frustrate him. Your Neptune on his Venus/Mars-mp might show how you are sometimes more like a phantom to him. Tantalizing, but not entirely real. Just out of reach.

If there is more foundation to it, other aspects would show

(btw interestingly enough in my own synastry HIS Neptune, ruler of his ASC, conjuncts my Venus/Mars-mp exact).

What I wanted to say though, is whenever Uranus, Neptune or Pluto are in the play, the interaction might feel almost archetypical, like it has álmost mythical larger-than-life dimensions.
At the same time unless the person with the outer planet activating the midpoint has some personal planets aligned with said outer planets, they might not even be very aware of what they are doing to the other person.

(I am not completely sure, but if the outer planet conjuncts an angle tightly or rules an angle, esp the ASC or MC, there might be a greater chance they are aware of its impact).

posted August 01, 2013 01:43 PM            

(The Sun/Moon-mp is not just a point of identity, but has a lot to say about the relationships in your life).

posted August 01, 2013 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
(btw interestingly enough in my own synastry HIS Neptune, ruler of his ASC, conjuncts my Venus/Mars-mp exact).

---

"Maybe it could also frustrate him. Your Neptune on his Venus/Mars-mp might show how you are sometimes more like a phantom to him. Tantalizing, but not entirely real. Just out of reach."

Yah, I could see myself doing that very thing "semi on purpose" - like I don't want to disillusion/disappoint him, so I'd keep myself just beyond a firm grasp while at the same time creating some VERY fuzzy "bounderies" that I'd also like to "dissolve" -- oh, yeah, Neptune and I are muy simpatico! But I think some fantasy ideal is already a part of his psyche since he's made a video that portray this theme of seeking an illusive, masked woman, always showing up just a moment after she's disappeared. He's got his own Neptune (8 degrees away from mine) as the opposing point of a kite formation.

I've been looking at my own Venus-Mars midpoint more closely. Mine is at 14Tau06, so sensitive points if I include the semisquare and sesquiquadrate would be 14.06 of Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius and 29.06 of Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces? Or would I even include the ones in Gemini and Pisces since that means my own Mars and Venus are within 1 degree of those placements? Since HE has his Venus/Mars midpoint between 11.48-12.27 Scorpio (depending on time of birth), that would put HIS sensitive points at about 12 Aquarius, Taurus and Leo and 27 Sag, Pisces, Gemini and Virgo (if I should count the Sag & Virgo). That makes our DW get REALLY interesting since we'd each have those planets in hard aspect to each others' midpoints as well! And what I just noticed when typing this is that my Sun is in hard aspect (semi-square) to his Venus-Mars midpoint, too!

Hmmm. I can't imagine how two people with natal Venus-Mars squares wouldn't be impacted by this kind of synastry, even if all the "relationship signatures" aren't met. I think I'd still be wanting to "check it out", know what I mean? Like "Here's someone who "gets" my inner conflict and maybe, just maybe, I really CAN have everything I want as contradictory as that may seem".

posted August 01, 2013 05:05 PM            

Yes, sounds like me as well. Must be the Neptunian vibe in both of us. lol

"he's made a video that portray this theme of seeking an illusive, masked woman, always showing up just a moment after she's disappeared. "
That is intriguing (and revealing maybe?).

"so sensitive points if I include the semisquare and sesquiquadrate"
I only consider the conjunction, opposition and square.

The problem is that there has to be a line somewhere or else we will find the connection we hope for in ANY chart.
Sometimes it is not easy to know where that line is though, cause you donīt want to miss important patterns either.

However, for me with midpoints it is really only the direct ones and the square.

"Hmmm. I can't imagine how two people with natal Venus-Mars squares wouldn't be impacted by this kind of synastry, even if all the "relationship signatures" aren't met."
Oh the impact would be there, I agree. It just needs to be anchored and put into prominence.

posted August 01, 2013 05:36 PM            

"The problem is that there has to be a line somewhere or else we will find the connection we hope for in ANY chart."
LOL. Yah, I find myself chuckling a bit when I read some of the miniscule connections mentioned on some threads . . . and here I go doing it myself.
Excuse me while I go remove a beam from my eye!

"Sometimes it is not easy to know where that line is though, cause you donīt want to miss important patterns either." I'd like to think the important patterns will be pretty hard to miss. I mean it's pretty hard to miss the chicken and the noodles in the chicken noodle soup, even if you can't identify the different herbs and spices! And something strong like cayenne pepper would make itself felt.

"Oh the impact would be there, I agree. It just needs to be anchored and put into prominence."

What would anchor it? What puts it into prominence? Let me see if I can think through that one. I've got Libra/Aries ASC/DES so that makes Venus/Mars important in my chart since they are angle rulers, so I think it's already prominent from MY side, though it would probably need to tie to an angle/ruler of his chart or the ruler of his 5th or 8th to put in into prominence from HIS side. But what do you mean by anchoring it? Or is it the angles that anchor and something else puts it into prominence?

posted August 02, 2013 09:00 AM            

"I'd like to think the important patterns will be pretty hard to miss."
You would think so, right?

Look at thta chart, what are the two or three outstanding patterns to you? (I find it pretty easy chart actually. lol)

[IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/Darkdreamer_02/birthchart_zps5780461c.gif[/I MG]

"What puts it into prominence?"
Conjunctions to Angles.

I`ve been thinking about this lately, about doing or checking synastry charts for just the outstanding patterns that touch the angles (conjunctions first priority, then squares, then maybe other aspects).

Let me explain though what I mean by prominence: Sticking out, being noteable, being seen, being pulled to the foreground, taking centrestage, coming to awareness.

For example a very dominant pattern in a natal chart, if one planet is conjunct another personīs ASC, the tie to the ASC might pull it to the forefront, and the person with the planetary pattern might even feel ig more strongly or becoming aware of it with the angle person around. Like it puts a spotlight onto this (btw the Sun often can put such a spotlight onto other planets as well).

It is like this:
Someone puts a planet onto the other person`s angle.
The angle person has their antennas in reception mode, and will see this planet. Through that being seen, the planet person might become aware of the planets effects very strongly. Like it is suddenly blazing with energy and light.

But even if it does not work exactly like this, a conjunction to the angles surely gives a pattern centre stage.

It becomes impossible to ignore it, it is seen and received.

Now that doesn`t mean that patterns without angle-involvement cannot be significant. They can be VERY significant as a matter of fact.
They might just not SHINE so brightly, or being so easily acknowledged by others or the people themselves.

(BTW the luminaries and the nodal axis seem to act as intensifier of contact as well).

As example:
there are two aspect patterns that REALLY stick out in my parent`s synastry.

1st:
my Dad`s Saturn conjunct my Mum`s Venus-Mars-conjunction, and this one is conjunct his ASC as well.

2nd:
my Dad`s Moon and Sun having an opposition and square to my Mumīs Sun - while this is not tied to the angles, it involves 3 luminaries.

There is of course also my Mum`s Saturn conjunct my Dad`s Mars and his SN.
This is a very significant pattern for them, but is not just as noteable for others than the first two are.

"o that makes Venus/Mars important in my chart since they are angle rulers, so I think it's already prominent from MY side"
Yes, I was thinking about angle rulers in this regard, and have been also thinking they might be just as prominent, but from my observation that is not quite true.

What is definitely true is that they are EXTREMELY significant and needed for in depth connections.
however the conjunctions to the angles themselves seem to be vital to bring something to the surface, into consciousness.
Some kind of electro-magnetical field or something like that. I donīt know exactly why.

However, having angle rulers ON the angles in synastry, definitely seems to be something that you have to take into consideration VERY strongly.

posted August 02, 2013 01:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[BLook at thta chart, what are the two or three outstanding patterns to you?[/B]

---

Okay, I've just pulled up this chart.

The first thing that jumps out at me is the strong emphasis on the S/W hemisphere so this person is very relationship oriented (Western hemi) and more objective (Southern hemi). This is the chart of a very sociable person.

The second thing that jumps out is the Sun/Moon conjunction on the MC. Identity tied to public standing. Ego and emotions are in agreement and work together. This is squared by an angular Saturn from the 7th, so restrained in their expression and emphasized need for social approval/status; possibly restrained by a partner or what a "hypothetical partner" might want/think? I'd say this person is very conservative. But their Sun/Moon are in Sag, so probably not that comfortable, like their desire to be open and honest before the public is restrained.

A lot of mutable fire and mutable earth. Basically very mutable in general, so comfortable with change, very flexible and adaptable.

posted August 02, 2013 03:18 PM            

Just some remarks on this chart:

"and more objective (Southern hemi)."
I don`t use these terms as they are so wishy-washy to me. What does it even mean? Cause every individual is a subject and therefore subjective.

However how I see the Northern and Southern hemisphere is derived from what it represents.
Planets below the horizon are under the surface, in a very private realm, sometimes almost invisible, as this is the hemisphere of the night.
Whereas planets above the horizon belong to the half of the day, and are very much on display.

So yes the Southern-Western emphasis describes him as a people-oriented person whose personality-traits (esp. with Sun and Moon on MC) are very much on display.

Or as you put it:
" This is the chart of a very sociable person."

"This is squared by an angular Saturn from the 7th, so restrained in their expression and emphasized need for social approval/status; possibly restrained by a partner or what a "hypothetical partner" might want/think?"
I find this interesting actually, there seems to be an internal conflict in this chart.

On the one hand we have those signatures of a "free spirit", independent, happy-go-lucky, not a care in the world stance; and also suffering (or actually others suffer, he doesn`t really) from "Foot in mouth-syndrome" (Mercury in Sagittarius squared by Mars-Jupiter-conjunction, with Mercury ruling the 3rd house, Mars ruling the 1st and Jupiter the 10th house - it serves him careerwise though and is a bit of his very personal label. lol)

Everything`s good and happy and optimistic, and not taking things too seriously, liking to connect to people, sure, but on a quite independent level.

And then we see Saturn right on the DESC, squaring the Sun-Moon-MC.
And we see Pluto in 7th - actually we see the ruler of the 8th house in 7th, Pluto squaring VEnus in Capricorn in 11th.

What is that about all at once?
Saturn and Pluto in 7th - that is the mark of someone taking relationships VERY seriously, Pluto makes us think of profound depth and passion, too, especially as ruler of the 8th house. Jealousy and posessiveness possibly.
But hey wait, in the 8th house itself sits URANUS?

Uhoh, Pluto will not like that very much, neither does Saturn - Uranus wants to be free, even in the most intimate of relationships. Which fits the Sag-stellium as a matter of fact.

How will all of that go together?
Not to mention this extreme need for approval and appreciation and applause, from a partner as well as partnering in a more social context (ruler of 7th house in 11th and ruler of 11th in 7th).

But then there is this square of the ruler of 5th house and 11th house - not easy to harmoniz these. So much need for recognition, for being loved.
But wanting to remain free, independent, the nice funny guy. Charming and outgoing.

There is a LOT bubbling under the surface methinks. However, honestly, this would be an ideal situation to project his Saturn and pluto on the women he is with. Let THEM play jealous wife, so he can sort of be the big charmer.

However, his last girlfriend had a stellium of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter in Aquarius with Mars in Sagittarius. The gf before that had Mars in Sagittarius as well, at almost the same degrees, conjunct his Mercury. So he must like something about that degree-area.

The Aquarius gf probably spoke a lot to his Uranus in 8thhouse as a matter of fact.

"I'd say this person is very conservative."
Yes and no.
For all his creative, funny ways and openmindedness, he is very down to earth as well, with strong ties to his family and hometown.

So tell me how did you identify the basic pattern of this chart? What did you look for at first?

posted August 02, 2013 04:31 PM            

"But now just think about it, how easy would it have been if Ihad se the orb at 150%, including ALL possible minor aspects and at least a dozen asteroids (and I LOVE asteroids!)?" I can't go there! I'd be too overwhelmed. I'm still learning to identify the type of forest!

"Cause every individual is a subject and therefore subjective" Good point!

"Planets below the horizon are under the surface, in a very private realm, sometimes almost invisible, as this is the hemisphere of the night. Whereas planets above the horizon belong to the half of the day, and are very much on display." Much better way of looking at it. Thanks.

"there seems to be an internal conflict in this chart" I love internal conflict -- it resonates with me.

"Foot in mouth-syndrome"

"And then we see Saturn right on the DESC, squaring the Sun-Moon-MC. And we see Pluto in 7th - actually we see the ruler of the 8th house in 7th, Pluto squaring VEnus in Capricorn in 11th. What is that about all at once?" I'm hoping you'll tell me!

"Saturn and Pluto in 7th - that is the mark of someone taking relationships VERY seriously, Pluto makes us think of profound depth and passion, too, especially as ruler of the 8th house. Jealousy and posessiveness possibly." Whew! Thanks for answering that.

"But hey wait, in the 8th house itself sits URANUS? Uhoh, Pluto will not like that very much, neither does Saturn - Uranus wants to be free, even in the most intimate of relationships. Which fits the Sag-stellium as a matter of fact. How will all of that go together?" Kind of hard to imagine who's going to win this round!

"Not to mention this extreme need for approval and appreciation and applause, from a partner as well as partnering in a more social context (ruler of 7th house in 11th and ruler of 11th in 7th).
But then there is this square of the ruler of 5th house and 11th house - not easy to harmoniz these. So much need for recognition, for being loved.
But wanting to remain free, independent, the nice funny guy. Charming and outgoing.
There is a LOT bubbling under the surface methinks. However, honestly, this would be an ideal situation to project his Saturn and pluto on the women he is with. Let THEM play jealous wife, so he can sort of be the big charmer."

That would be one solution, yes. Interesting about the gf(s) and their Mars's on his Mercury.

So tell me how did you identify the basic pattern of this chart? What did you look for at first?

The first thing I looked at was hemisphere emphasis, not because I intended to look there first, but because it "jumped out" at me. Very difficult NOT to notice. I haven't developed a disciplined approach to this - that's the reason I started a thread on the topic of chart interpretation. The angular planets were the next to get my attention, especially since both luminaries were involved. If that hadn't been the case, I think I'd have looked to the sign of the Sun and house position, plus the Moon and its house.

posted August 02, 2013 05:44 PM            

"Much better way of looking at it. Thanks."
Thank you.

"I love internal conflict -- it resonates with me."
Yes, me, too.
But then I am having pretty similiar internal conflicts than he does I guess. Not so pronounced on the DESC and MC, but still, with my own Sag-Stellium plus Capricorn Venus squaring Pluto; and I also have the 5th house ruler squaring 11th house ruler.

The law of resonance I guess.

"Kind of hard to imagine who's going to win this round!"
I thnk the "secret" is to find a way to satisfy both. Which might not be easy. But only going for one would make things totally unbalanced.

" but because it "jumped out" at me."
Yeah, it was very obvious, right?

BTW this is MY chart
[IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/Darkdreamer_02/astroceri_zpsad2127f3.gif[/IMG ]

As you can easily see I have a North-Eastern dominance, with the ASC-emphasis.
I am pretty much the opposite. A lot going on under the surface and more defensive than is good for me. LOL

I guess this is ALSO a reason why I feel attracted to him.

posted August 02, 2013 06:47 PM            

I've printed both charts in case you don't want to keep the links on here. I'll take a closer look later. I'm working on "talking through" my thinking on that rectification. But, wow, you've got a loaded first house! Would I be right to think you've got a "commanding presence" when you want to?

posted August 03, 2013 05:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jkitty:
Hard, tight aspects to Saturn and the outer planets will also effect choice, particularly conjunctions and squares.That doesn't sound to ME like she's including minor aspects. I've now read quite a few articles from her archives and she doesn't mention any non-Ptolemaic aspects from what I can recall.

And she does specify that they be tight. My Sun/Neptune square has an orb of only 14 minutes, so yah, I take that old "dreamweaver" VERY personally. And no matter who you attract, you can always chose to walk away.

---

Ah, no, it doesn't. Maybe that's a good thing, saves us time getting every aspect down, haha. I know, you don't have to be okay with everyone you attract.

Wow. 14 minutes? That'd be strong, definitely.

Actually, I've been reading all of these synastry posts happily. They make things much clearer than squinting over my own chart does. Even if I'm still blurry over it, it still gives me a good read.

So I'm totally using this to bump this post Thank you, Lotus White and Ceridwen. I'm going to keep reading ^^

posted August 03, 2013 06:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:

I know this is all a hobby, but just look at all the work you must've put into getting these theories down and explaining them here. Again, thanks so much, more people should read this!

---

You are right, and still to me it sometimes feels more like an obsession, or as if I am married to astrology. LOL
So much time went into all the studying, researching, thinking it through, coming to conclusions, refining, branching out, getting back to the basics, starting from scratch one again, and repeat...

And I will never be "finished".

posted August 03, 2013 12:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Not much that accounts for that obsessive mental processes, with my Mercury being in Sagittarius, and only conjunct Sun.
(my tightest midpoint is Moon= Mercury/Pluto though, so maybe that is where it comes from)

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posted August 03, 2013 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by page one:
Maybe because Mercury is conjunct the midpoint of your Venus/Pluto square?

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It isn`t. My Venus/Pluto-midpoint is at about 21 or 22 Scorpio. Mercury at 25 Sag.

posted August 03, 2013 01:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
You are right, and still to me it sometimes feels more like an obsession, or as if I am married to astrology. LOL
So much time went into all the studying, researching, thinking it through, coming to conclusions, refining, branching out, getting back to the basics, starting from scratch one again, and repeat...

And I will never be "finished".

Not much that accounts for that obsessive mental processes, with my Mercury being in Sagittarius, and only conjunct Sun.
(my tightest midpoint is Moon= Mercury/Pluto though, so maybe that is where it comes from)

---

Yes, I can imagine that! It's an endless process, isn't it? Haha, it feels that much like one?

That midpoint does make sense. I mean, it's obviously something that makes you feel good, like with the moon. Maybe Saturn for the long-term focus and the Sagittarius/Jupiter for wanting to do it big and go all out?

posted August 04, 2013 07:06 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Yes, I can imagine that! It's an endless process, isn't it? Haha, it feels that much like one?

That midpoint does make sense. I mean, it's obviously something that makes you feel good, like with the moon. Maybe Saturn for the long-term focus and the Sagittarius/Jupiter for wanting to do it big and go all out?

I can't think of anything to ask on any synastry threads, but I've been taking notes and played around with my chart. Best way to remember everything.

---

Feel good?
Hmm, it is something I need to do emotionally I guess. Some inner compulsion there. Yes, it makes me feel good, but different than enjoying a warm summer day lazily sipping a cocktail on my terrace makes m good as well.

posted August 04, 2013 07:10 AM            

what do you need to know about my Jupiter?

Well except for that my Jupiter is extremely dominant in my chart - or actually it is the mutual reception of Jupiter and Neptune, holding the reins about a great part of my chart.

posted August 04, 2013 06:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
what do you need to know about my Jupiter?

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LOL. I don't know! It just looks like Superman under the effect of kryptonite or something. "Super Sag" is a bit woozy. I really haven't a clue about how intercepts work. So let's start with that. How does an intercepted planet work in a chart?

posted August 04, 2013 06:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
How does an intercepted planet work in a chart?

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Just like any not intercepted planet, too.

(I know there are diff. statements on this out there. But the others are wrong ).

There is nothing hidden about my Jupiter, and I can access him pretty well.

The only thing that might set the intercepted houses apart is that initially I may react with my Aquarius/ Uranus to any 3rd house stimuli, being followed by the Pisces/Neptune/Jupiter one.

But apart from that I have never really found an intercepted planet to be weakend. It is more important how he is integrated with the rest. And my Jupiter definitely is quite dominant.

posted August 04, 2013 08:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I know there are diff. statements on this out there. But the others are wrong

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