posted July 30, 2013 07:32 PM            

A natal chart needs to be analyzed for its relationship signatures before we can compare it to another chart for compatibility. I don’t see this much talked about in astrological circles anymore, though it was once considered the most important part of a synastry. Because if what I have to offer doesn’t fit your inner pattern of what a partner is, you will not consider me as a potential mate, no matter how many interaspects we have between our charts. This inner script of partnership determines for us who is a potential partner and who is not. . .

The Basics:

According to Jungian psychology, we each carry a male and a female archetype within us. This inner image of other determines who we consider as partnership material. One of the great advantages of astrology is that it provides an illustration for that archetype. We have a map that gives us a short cut to understanding our mysterious, internal ‘other half.’

Traditionally, we take a look at Moon/Venus for men and Sun/Mars for women, and add that to the sign on the Descendant and any planets there. (Planets there are often projected onto the partner.) Hard, tight aspects to Saturn and the outer planets will also effect choice, particularly conjunctions and squares. A man with Venus tightly bound up with Pluto will choose partners who will bring him intense Plutonian experiences, for better or worse. He may choose relationships that begin with intense passion, then devolve into power struggles. A woman with Sun/Uranus may find herself attracted to intellectuals or constantly involved in long-distance relationships. On the one hand, yes, the partner is teaching us more about our relationship to these planets, but on the other, this planetary placement is simply a part of who we are, and will not change. Our inner scripts are pretty much set from birth. We may choose better partners as we learn about ourselves, but our basic inclinations to partnership will not change. If a woman has Sun conjunct Pluto, she may evolve from choosing controlling partners to men who have a more positive expression of the Scorpio archetype, but the basic inclination to Pluto will remain.

Example: A man has Venus in Pisces, Moon in Capricorn. He meets a woman who is a Capricorn with Sun conjunct Neptune. Her Sun is in the sign of his Moon. Her Sun/Neptune also fits his Piscean inclinations. There are no direct aspects between the charts in the traditional sense, but it doesn’t matter in terms of initial attraction. Whatever differences arise, he sees this woman as a natural partner. Add the fact that he has Aquarius on the Descendant and she is loaded with Aquarius planets. Even without direct aspects, his Aquarius Descendant is looking to fill the gap of ‘not I,’ which she happily supplies.

Example: A woman has Mars conjunct the Descendant. Of her male signatures, her Mars is in Pisces and her Sun is in Virgo in the 12th. The Neptune influence is strong here, but the standard gentle Piscean archetype is thrown by the very prominent Mars. Her longest and deepest relationships have been with very artistic (and ambitious) Aries men, and Mars has been prominent in nearly all of her previous relationships. This is enhanced by the fact that Mars rules her eighth house. She chooses men who live out her Mars, even though her own Mars is highly developed.

In the first example, there are no obvious aspects between charts, and yet the relationship is going the distance (so far) as the inner script is so well fulfilled. Searching for traditional ‘Venus trine Mars’ type aspects would reveal nothing about why these people are together. In the second, it would be easy to assume that the Piscean type would dominate, without understanding the importance of the Aries/Martian influence on the angle. It also illustrates the permanence of planetary influence. Even when we claim the relationship planets of the opposite sex for our own, (living out Sun/Mars for women; Moon/Venus for men) they still influence our choice of partner.

Sometimes, it works one way and not the other. You may fill my script, but I may not fill yours. When this happens, I think of you as partner material, and you think of me as a friend. The inner script often explains a lot about one way attractions. I may have Mars in Aquarius and the Sun in Leo in the 9th. You may be a Sag with Mars in Leo and an 11th house Moon, and I may be floored by your fire and air. However, your Moon in Cancer and Venus in Virgo may have nothing to do with my planets or placements. I will see you as a potential partner, but you will not see me that way. These basic signatures need to be looked at before we begin looking at interaspects.

posted July 30, 2013 09:24 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
Even when we claim the relationship planets of the opposite sex for our own, (living out Sun/Mars for women; Moon/Venus for men) they still influence our choice of partner.

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This. I dislike the underlying assumption that everybody has major 'projection issues'. I am attracted to the placements of my 7th house, but I feel I own it, and use it for my self just fine. Same with my Sun and Mars.

posted July 30, 2013 09:48 PM            

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
[BAlso wanted to add that the 5th, and the 8th house are part of our attraction 'pattern' too. And, interestingly, Uranus and Neptune expand on male/female archetypes in the sense of what we consider glamorous. [/B]

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Really? Uranus and Neptune? I can understand Neptune as the higher octave of Venus, but why Uranus? Why not Pluto (higher octave of Mars)? Would you explain please?

Hmmm. I thought my Neptune leanings were because I have an exact square to my Sun.

posted July 30, 2013 11:48 PM            

Her:
Sun in Cancer in 2nd house
Mars in Cancer in 1st house in hard aspect to Saturn in Pisces in 10th house
Sag on DES with Jupiter in Cancer in 1st

Him:
Moon in Aries in 10th house in hard aspect to Uranus in 4th
Venus in Taurus in 11th
Cappy on DES with Saturn in Cancer in 12th

He's a match to her ideal because:
His Moon in Aries a mutual reception for her Mars in Cancer (Moon rules Cancer and Mars rules Aries). He's also got Cancer rising.

His Venus in Taurus is a match for her 2nd house Sun since Taurus is the natural ruler of the 2nd

He's got a loaded 12th house with Sun, Saturn and Mercury residing there. This fulfills her Saturn in Pisces in the 10th; plus his Moon is in his 10th house.

He's got Cancer ascendant which fulfills her descendant ruler being in Cancer.

Overall, it looks like he is everything that she wants in a man.

Now let's see how well she fits his ideal:
She's got a loaded 1st house with Mars, Moon and Jupiter residing there. This fulfills his Aries Moon since Aries is the natural ruler of the 1st.

She has 4 planets in Cancer (Sun, Moon, Mars & Jupiter) which is a match for having his Uranus in his 4th house since Cancer is the natural ruler of the 4th.

She's got Sun and Mercury in her 2nd house which satisfies his Venus in Taurus since the 2nd house corresponds to Taurus in the natural zodiac.

She's got a 10th house Saturn in Pisces which is a match for his Capricorn (natural ruler of the 10th) descendant ruler being in the 12th (natural placement of Pisces).

Whew!!! They completely satisfy each others relationship signatures! No wonder they've been happy together for so long!!!

Let's say it all together now: AWWWWW

posted July 31, 2013 12:32 AM            

To elaborate, I see Neptune and Uranus as a male/female pair, just like the Sun and the Moon, and Mars and Venus. And yeah, they seem to describe the gender ideals related to glamour for a whole generation… What type of men or women are prominent in the popular culture on a fantasy level…

Interestingly, the 11th house (Uranus’ natural domain) also rules public awareness, and the 12th house (Neptune’s natural domain) also rules fantasy. Images of men as the wild rebel or unpredictable genius are extremely popular in pop culture (the James Dean type… He‘s an Aqua), and so are images of women as the glamorous feminine mystery or the ethereal dream girl (the Marilyn Monroe type… She had Neptune in Leo in the 1st).

The placements of Uranus and Neptune in our natal charts respectively show our personal images of masculinity and feminity in an over the top glamorous way… For my generation that’s Scorpio for men (Uranus in Scorpio) and Sagittarius for women (Neptune in Sagittarius).

Pluto, on the other hand seems more gender neutral then Uranus (which is distinctly masculine to me). If Neptune is the female, and Uranus is the male, then Pluto is the connection itself between them…. Pluto rules the intimacy that can exist between the sexes, the power balance between them, what they share when they pool their resources, and the actual sex itself…

If men are shown by Sun/Mars/Uranus and women are shown by Moon/Venus/Neptune… Then Pluto is the joining of the two. On a symbolic level Pluto represents the composite chart, or what happens when two natal charts combine to form a ‘relationship’ which is almost like a third entity itself. I guess my point is I don’t see Pluto as male or female so much as I see it as representing what happens during the union of male and female. Using another analogy, if the 7th house is where we officially meet face to face with the partner, the 8th house (Pluto’s natural domain) is what happens when we combine and deal with each other’s personal ‘baggage’ from within the relationship.

Pluto is a Masculine seeming planet but it rules a feminine sign, Scorpio, and presides over 8th house issues, like what happens in the context of a union. Pluto rules the intimate connection itself, rather then an ideal of either male or female.

By contrast, Neptune is a feminine planet ruling a feminine sign, Pisces. And Uranus is a masculine planet ruling a masculine sign, Aquarius. The distinction here is a lot more obvious.

In astrology there are so many ways to connect with our ‘ideal’ images concerning the sexes…. But it does seem that each one has a certain special flavor to offer… And each time we meet someone who lights up one of these, they awaken feelings in us that relate to that part of what our ideal is.

For images of women in a Man’s chart… The Moon is the vulnerable girl a guy wants to protect, Venus is the fair beauty the he goes wild for, Neptune is ethereal glamour ideal that enchants him. I check all these by sign, house and aspect.

For images of men in a Women’s chart… The Sun is the charismatic guy she adores and respects, Mars is the hot, sexy young suitor that turns her on, and Uranus is brilliant, unpredictable male glamour ideal that fascinates her. Again, I check all these by sign, house and aspect.

Next…

Another thing I look at for men’s attraction (For romantic attractions specifically) is the house related to Venus’ sign (secondary). You could do this for the Moon, Neptune and Lilith also, but Venus one seems to be highly potent… Venus is the beautiful young maiden, she is ripe for courtship, and the ideal sweetheart and girlfriend… Whereas the Moon is sometimes just about Mom, and Neptune sometimes just refers to abstract fantasy… Because of this I think Venus has a strong ‘echo’ thought out a guys chart, in terms of romantic connections.

Just like Venus for men, Mars for women has an especially strong echo through a women’s chart in a romantic sense. Sometimes the Sun is just about Dad, and Uranus is about just abstract intellectual concepts… Whereas Mars is the vibrant passionate young man, who is the aggressor in courtship, and whose raw physical energy is major turn on for a women. To see more details on this image of men in a women’s chart I look at the house related to Mars’s sign (secondary).

The other gender planets are worth checking through secondary houses for curiosity’s sake (And probably do have a lot to say)… But I have noticed the Venus and Mars are the most potent in secondary houses for romance, probably because they refer specifically to a young man and women in love, during the courtship phase.

posted July 31, 2013 01:05 AM            

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Lotis White: Although, Jkitty, you already know about these.

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posted July 31, 2013 01:11 AM            

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Could you look at it both ways? Like, for example, a gay woman. Would her Venus, Moon, and Neptune be the attraction indicators for her? Or if you're bisexual, can you look at all six?

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Actually, someone asked a similar question at the end of the link I provided. Here's what the answer was:

There’s no doubt that same sex relationships are a lot more complex in their interactions. You still have the same Moon/Venus/Mars/Sun dynamic, but it seems that it can shift from partner to partner and can shift from day to day within a relationship. Usually in any chart there are are planets that are dominant by sign, house and number of aspects. That planet would carry the overall signature, but it can change. Gay and bi-sexual people tend to identify more with all of the relationship planets, and the emphasis shifts depending on who you are with. One person may make you relate more in a Moon/Venus way, and another will emphasize your Sun/Mars. It’s interesting that Uranus is your ruling planet, as it tends to neutralize the sexual divide, making you more liable to relate to both sides of the archetypes.

Some things are universal, however. We all need partners who feed our lunar needs, no matter the sex. Your Cancer Moon requires nurturing, and you need to nurture in return. The sign on the cusp of the Descendant also tells us a great deal about what to look for in a partner–you may not necessarily be attracted to the sign itself (sometimes we are put off by our Descendants), but the qualities associated with that sign. Also, take a look at the house the Descendant ruler falls in, which will say a lot about what you require of a partner. (For example, Desc ruler in the second house means we need a partner who values and supports us; in the 11th house, we require a partner who is social and friendly). The sign on the cusp of the 12th house often gives us clues to what qualities we tend to project onto partners, qualities we need to become aware of and own in ourselves. Our eighth houses and our eighth house rulers say a lot about how we relate sexually, and what need in order to merge with another person. It tells us about our sexual style and what we need in bed.

posted July 31, 2013 01:20 AM            

"Uranus describes a primal energy that moves at the core of our being to generate genuine individuality, creative vitality, and personal charisma. Uranus is the planet of "soul" in the sense that it propels us on a deeply personal quest to reconnect with that within us that is uniquely our own, and then grow a life that springs from those roots. When Uranus is functioning at an optimum level, sex becomes not just a biological act, nor merely an avenue to intensified pleasure, but a compelling gateway to a more integrated sense of self."
the rest of the article is here: http://joelandwehr.typepad.com/astropoetics/article6.html

oddly enough, the description given by the website seems to describe 5th house related affairs, which is the opposite of the house that uranus rules.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:

If men are shown by Sun/Mars/Uranus and women are shown by Moon/Venus/Neptune… Then Pluto is the joining of the two. On a symbolic level Pluto represents the composite chart, or what happens when two natal charts combine to form a ‘relationship’ which is almost like a third entity itself. I guess my point is I don’t see Pluto as male or female so much as I see it as representing what happens during the union of male and female. Using another analogy, if the 7th house is where we officially meet face to face with the partner, the 8th house (Pluto’s natural domain) is what happens when we combine and deal with each other’s personal ‘baggage’ from within the relationship.

Pluto rules the intimate connection itself, rather then an ideal of either male or female.

By contrast, Neptune is a feminine planet ruling a feminine sign, Pisces. And Uranus is a masculine planet ruling a masculine sign, Aquarius. The distinction here is a lot more obvious.

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hmm, I have a slightly different interpretation. while I agree that neptune has a feminine energy and uranus has a more masculine energy, I wouldn't necessarily say that each has a direct impact on the gender ideals of a person. I think that all of the outer planets (uranus, neptune, pluto) signify something that are beyond gender. for instance, while neptune does grant feminine traits in a natal chart, what it actually rules--imagination and spirituality--can't be classified as representing women even though its energy is more yin and feminine.

the same applies to uranus. the concept of individuality, activism, and the various traits of uranus (lack of emotions, dynamism, pioneering) are traditionally identified as masculine, but I don't think that it symbolizes men in a natal chart

I do think you're spot-on with pluto

posted July 31, 2013 05:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
. I am attracted to the placements of my 7th house, but I feel I own it, and use it for my self just fine. Same with my Sun and Mars.

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I agree with that BIG time.

However, I don`t really see the outer planets as carriers of our partner ideal (except for in a very subtle, generational,archetypical way).

posted July 31, 2013 08:50 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
However, I don`t really see the outer planets as carriers of our partner ideal (except for in a very subtle, generational,archetypical way).

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Hi Ceri

posted July 31, 2013 09:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Hi Ceri

Yeah, this is what I mean. I don’t see Uranus and Neptune as partner ideal planets, so much as I see them as archetypal images of male and female present within an entire generation. The represent a iconic images of glamour, rather then the characteristics we’d look for in a partner. I think they do form part of our conceptions of male and female, like the Sun and the Moon, and Mars and Venus, but they’re more ‘distant’ and abstract. That’s my take on it at least.

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Yes, that I can agree with.

posted July 31, 2013 09:21 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes, that I can agree with.

No wonder the vampire theme boomed so much, eh?
With all these Scorpio-Plutos coming into the right age to embody them.

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Heck, yeah. It started with us Uranus in Scorpio people, and then Pluto in Scorpio took over. Have you noticed how many 'dark' shows there've be in the last decade? Not just the Vampire craze. I mean, tons of cop shows about murders and forensics, and paranormal oriented stuff, both reality based and fictional. I there's also a lot of creepy dark movies, some of them downright disgusting (like the Saw movies, or Hostel, both of which I've never seen. when it comes to dark, I tend to like more of the softer, psycho-emotional stuff, rather then gore).
I noticed a shift in the 90's towards 'darker', and it's still going now.

posted July 31, 2013 09:28 AM            

And yes, I also am curious to see how the Sagittarius-Generation will influence the genres.

Quest, adventure, probably crusade-like, underlining certain moral prinicples or at least philosophies, sound like it could be.
Exploring new worlds (which reminds me of old shows like Star Trek actually. lol)

Most likely the athmosphere will get a little lighter, not as dark and bloody as the Scorpio shows. But beware of the dark side of SAgittarius (arrogance and righteousness for instance).

posted July 31, 2013 04:42 PM            

I can definitely see the aspects of my Sun and Mars coming back in the men I'm attracted to. Why else would I keep falling for men with strong Uranus/Aquarius while there's nothing in my chart to back that up in synastry?

posted July 31, 2013 06:28 PM            

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Originally posted by meissieri:
So it's just the conjunctions and harsh aspects that can give the planet a flavour of another sign?

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I think conjunctions/squares from the "three bullies" (Uranus/Neptune/Pluto) or Saturn color it. That explains why I'm SOOO attracted to musicians and artistic types. Probably lucky it's that and not druggies and alcoholics!

posted July 31, 2013 07:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
I think conjunctions/squares from the "three bullies" (Uranus/Neptune/Pluto) or Saturn color it. That explains why I'm SOOO attracted to musicians and artistic types. Probably lucky it's that and not druggies and alcoholics!

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They do pack a punch. Do the minor aspects count here as well? Glad you've avoided the negative traits!

posted July 31, 2013 07:37 PM            

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Originally posted by meissieri:
Do the minor aspects count here as well?

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Hard, tight aspects to Saturn and the outer planets will also effect choice, particularly conjunctions and squares.That doesn't sound to ME like she's including minor aspects. I've now read quite a few articles from her archives and she doesn't mention any non-Ptolemaic aspects from what I can recall.

And she does specify that they be tight. My Sun/Neptune square has an orb of only 14 minutes, so yah, I take that old "dreamweaver" VERY personally. And no matter who you attract, you can always chose to walk away.

posted July 31, 2013 09:27 PM            

Why Capricorn:
Capricorn in the 5th house
Saturn square Venus
Moon in Cancer

Why Pisces:
Pisces in the 7th house
North node in Pisces
Neptune trine moon
Venus in the 12th house
Sun in Virgo

As is happens, many of my relationships have involved goats and fish...water bearers too, somewhat inexplicably.

Capricorns and Pisces make me feel like I'm "home". The problem is "home" gets boring pretty quickly, and my Sag mars goes looking for adventure.

posted August 01, 2013 06:34 AM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
I think conjunctions/squares from the "three bullies" (Uranus/Neptune/Pluto) or Saturn color it. That explains why I'm SOOO attracted to musicians and artistic types. Probably lucky it's that and not druggies and alcoholics!

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Yes, the dynamic aspects are stronger int hat regard, though if there is already an indication of something, a very exact trine might add to it.

Like in a guy`s chart he has Saturn conjunct DESC, Venus in Capricorn and tightly trine Saturn.
They are adding to each other.

posted August 01, 2013 07:02 AM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:
Hard, tight aspects to Saturn and the outer planets will also effect choice, particularly conjunctions and squares.That doesn't sound to ME like she's including minor aspects. I've now read quite a few articles from her archives and she doesn't mention any non-Ptolemaic aspects from what I can recall.

And she does specify that they be tight. My Sun/Neptune square has an orb of only 14 minutes, so yah, I take that old "dreamweaver" VERY personally. And no matter who you attract, you can always chose to walk away.

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Conjunctions, squares (and oppositions) are the ones that need to be taken into consideration at first, they represent really strong themes (sometimes issues that have to be worked out).

Trines and sextiles show where things run rather smoothly, and if aligned with midpoint configurations, they can actually be rather strong.
But the strength is not derived from the fact that there is a trine or sextile, but that we have what I call a "closed circuit".

Example:

ASC: 25 Pisces
Venus: 25 Capricorn
Saturn: 26 Virgo
Uranus: 23 Scorpio

We have some harmonious aspects here like:
Venus trien Saturn
Venus sextile Uranus
Venus sextile ASC
Saturn sextile Uranus
Uranus trine ASC

Those would be nice, but none of these would be particularly intense or strong ON THEIR OWN (if they appeared as an isolated aspect).

Here in this case they are strengthened by the midpoint pictures of:

Uranus= Venus/ASC= Venus/SAturn
Venus= Uranus/ASC= Saturn/Uranus
ASC= Venus/Uranus

You can`t consider them in isolated terms, they are one complex.

But if you have addressed all the majors, it is definitely of use having a look especally at semisquares and sesisquares.
http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/breathing-refined-air-the-esoteric-aspects/

but also keep in mind