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  sorry to break your guys hearts, but some of your pluto aspects might not be accurate (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   sorry to break your guys hearts, but some of your pluto aspects might not be accurate
soren
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posted August 23, 2013 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since Pluto is not aligned with the ecliptic and has an angle of 17 degrees going through it the calculations in your charts wont all be correct.

Pluto passes through the ecliptic for the first time since its discovery on 2018. It won't pass through the ecliptic again until 2179. So on 2018 the natal chart calculations you see online will be correct. But otherwise, a Pluto calculated conjunction isn't really a conjunction nor is a calculated opposition really an opposition UNLESS Pluto was somewhat close to the ecliptic at the time of the calculation. Here take a look.

So yeah. It's not good to go on believing something that isn't true. So the truth is that most of us with Pluto aspects have the incorrect aspect calculated. Pluto aspects must be calculated with each planet individually unless Pluto is on or near the ecliptic.

So I'm suspecting the Pluto aspect calculators will be made in the future.

For some really cool magical reading though I came up with this:

Most planets are on the ecliptic and so our energies and behaviours are being guided and affected from a one dimensional plane. Planets that aren't aligned with the ecliptic such as Pluto, Eris, Pallas, and others give a new angle and look on reality and broadens our outlook.

So there you have it.

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Kerosene
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posted August 23, 2013 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
very interesting observations.
I'm sure astrologers have taken that into account.
Too bad pluto isn't active in my chart, I have no need to paint the town red haha

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks. Haha

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Lotis White
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posted August 23, 2013 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What makes you think that astrologers don't take this into account when they calculate Pluto's placements? Surely astrologers today have the brains to take things like an oddly shaped orbit into consideration.

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somethingexcellent
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posted August 23, 2013 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because of Plutos orbit, it spends longer periods in Aries and Taurus and shorter periods in Libra and Scorpio...so I would imagine that chart generators would take the fact Pluto isn't aligned with the ecliptic into account as well. I mean, it draws it up as though it's 2 dimensional, so it's like flattening Pluto's orbit and just finding where it would be if it were aligned, no?

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anonymidarkness
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posted August 23, 2013 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Newrise
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posted August 23, 2013 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Newrise     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank God

Okay, k .. Half kidding >_<

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because. In my chart it says my Moon is conjunct Pluto by 2 degrees. I'm not sure how far Pluto was from the ecliptic at the time of my birth. But it was probably further than 2 degrees. Birth charts are 2 dimensional and to calculate planets on another plane takes 3 dimensions.

If you want further proof for how the calculated chart's are wrong then look at this chart I just looked up. Pluto was definitely somewhat far from the ecliptic 80 years ago. And here's a chart of 1920.
http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/natal?member=&recalc=&name=&sex=t&d1day=30&d1month=6&d1year=1920&d1hour=8&d1min=23&adjust=0&citylist=Vancouver+Junction%2C+WA+%2853%29% 2C+United+States&lang=en

Pluto conjuncts the Sun by a degree. But really Pluto would have probably been at least 10 degrees above the ecliptic. So I guess the chart's aren't wrong. It probably calculated the direction of Pluto and its actual spot in the zodiac just fine. But to say that it is conjuncting the sun is where it is incorrect.

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So yeah chart calculations calculate Pluto's direction and degree of the 2 dimensional zodiac. But if you see Pluto in the same degree as a planet in your chart while Pluto is at its furthest point from the ecliptic then it isn't a conjunction because Pluto could be 20 degrees above the ecliptic which would make it 20 degrees away from that planet. I havn't seen any charts that calculate Pluto's 3D position.

It's not hard to calculate Pluto's true aspects to planets. It just takes math and trigonometry. Anyway Yeah I just wanted to inform you guys on this.

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somethingexcellent
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posted August 23, 2013 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Think of it as looking at the solar system from above (or below, depending on your perspective)

From above, it would look like Pluto has a flat orbit just like the rest of the planets, and this is what software uses. I get what you're saying, but you're kinda applying...conventional science to something that doesn't mesh well with conventional science.

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well what I'm saying is kind of important because a conjunction means that 2 planets are very close to the same spot in space and that reading 2D charts can have you believe that your Pluto is in a close area to another planet when really it isn't as close as you thought.

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somethingexcellent
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posted August 23, 2013 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for somethingexcellent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually the only planets that can be conjunct are Neptune and Pluto because their orbits intersect. You're looking at things 3 dimensionally when natal charts are simply 2 dimensional. It's like looking at a painting and saying how two trees look like their close together when in reality, the two trees are actually a diagonal distance apart. I get what you're saying, and it's a good observation! But I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although I guess Pluto's position in my chart is still more closely conjunct my moon than any other planet in my chart and even though Pluto is on a different plane I think I still feel their energy pretty linked in me. Although it's cool to take note that Pluto's influence is actually coming from a different plane to your psyche and so maybe it has a different perspective than other planets.

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When Pluto comes close to the ecliptic, any other planets on the ecliptic that are in Pluto's direction will be conjunct it. It's about being in the same direction.

And I am very aware that natal charts are 2D.

I'm just saying that the true angles in our charts involving Pluto may be incorrect. Because Pluto being 20 degrees above the ecliptic can take away an aspect that you thought was a conjunction. It might even change other aspects. I dont know. It's for anyone who cares about the true angle between Pluto and another planet. The angle is how the planets communicate

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Lotis White
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posted August 23, 2013 01:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soren,

If you're interested in the 3D way of looking at charts there's a way to examine this already. It's called declinations. It looks at how planets are located in comparison to the ecliptic plane... Like looking at the solar system from the side rather then from above/below.

Magi astrology uses these types of charts a lot. Planets can be parallel (at the same level), or contra-parallel (the same distance from the ecliptic at opposite directions). parallels and contra-parallels function like conjunctions and oppositions. It's a good way to see how energies work in your chart from a different perspective. This phenomenon probably also explains compatibility that doesn't make sense according to zodiac positions.

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok I will check it out now

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Odette
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posted August 23, 2013 01:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
:’( how dare you break our guy’s hearts..... by guy you mean aquaguy right?

LOL .. Too late.. His hearts are already broken!

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
rofl

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aquaguy91
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posted August 23, 2013 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
:’( how dare you break our guy’s hearts..... by guy you mean aquaguy right?

Whats that supposed to mean?

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aquaguy91
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posted August 23, 2013 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
LOL .. Too late.. His hearts are already broken!

So I have more than one heart now?

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I broke your heart aqua guy. Because you were really happy with your Pluto placements.

Ok Lotis I just checked my declinations. Well I'm not really sure what declination is but I checked the latitude. My moon is 5 degrees south of the ecliptic and my Pluto is 15 degrees north of it.

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aquaguy91
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posted August 23, 2013 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who said I was happy with my pluto placements? lmao

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I just assumed that was why since your heart is broken and all.

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Violets
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posted August 23, 2013 02:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I might dance a fricking jig if I thought Pluto and Saturn (let's just throw Saturn in there for fun) might magically become inactive in my chart. *grumble*

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soren
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posted August 23, 2013 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Haha. If you go to astro.com and after your chart is generated if you click on "additional tables" it will download a table which shows the lattitude which is degrees north or south of the equater. I'm not completely sure if this is correct but if Pluto is 15 degrees away from a planet for its latitude it may change the aspect a bit. I think it would definitely change a conjunction but a square I'm not sure about.

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