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Author Topic:   Chiron in suicide charts
Twirl
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posted October 01, 2013 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi

What role does Chiron play in charts from people that commit suicide? Would TChiron conjunct Nsun be able to envoke these actions to end life?
I put a suicide chart up in astrology for beginners. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum34/HTML/001455.html

Thanks in advance

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Mercurian Intellect
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posted October 01, 2013 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mercurian Intellect     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Twirl:
Hi

What role does Chiron play in charts from people that commit suicide? Would TChiron conjunct Nsun be able to envoke these actions to end life?
I put a suicide chart up in astrology for beginners. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum34/HTML/001455.html

Thanks in advance


I have a Virgo Sun conjunct Chiron at a 7 degree orb natally, and I'm really not happy with my life, that's all I can say. It's conjunct Venus at 0 degrees and I have a Libra Venus as well.
I think that person who commited suicide's Pisces influence and transit Chiron could have something to do with it.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted October 01, 2013 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No I wouldn't pin this down to tChiron - admittedly, I haven't studied the act, but transiting Chiron is very interesting and not in least menacing, in my experience, of course. I am not fan of Chiron, the eternal pain type of interpretations either.

But YES, Sun would be important, water houses.

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted October 01, 2013 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think maybe a hard Saturn transit would trigger someone to depression and in the most extreme of cases, it may even lead them to committing suicide.
I could be wrong though but those are just my thoughts.

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Mercurian Intellect
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posted October 01, 2013 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mercurian Intellect     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
I think maybe a hard Saturn transit would trigger someone to depression and in the most extreme of cases, it may even lead them to committing suicide.
I could be wrong though but those are just my thoughts.

I agree, Saturn usually is the case of melancholy people. Which can lead to suicide.

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VenusDiSirius
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posted October 01, 2013 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDiSirius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually tSaturn to someone strongly influenced by Saturn is beneficial, so it can't really be a rule.

tSaturn is mostly a sign of frugality and discipline, great muscle tonus.

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Mercurian Intellect
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posted October 01, 2013 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mercurian Intellect     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Actually tSaturn to someone strongly influenced by Saturn is beneficial, so it can't really be a rule.

tSaturn is mostly a sign of frugality and discipline, great muscle tonus.


So tSaturn is good and nSaturn is bad for suicide?

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted October 01, 2013 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VenusDiSirius:
Actually tSaturn to someone strongly influenced by Saturn is beneficial, so it can't really be a rule.

tSaturn is mostly a sign of frugality and discipline, great muscle tonus.


You are right, but those who aren't accustomed to Saturn energies might get a bit too overwhelmed from any harsh Saturn transits (and I'm talking brutal ones heres, the most extreme of cases, and again, if other aspects are favorable too, such as Mars/Uranus/Pluto/8th house somehow being activated by hard aspects simultaneously) then it may cause them to go over the edge..

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EmpressMendez
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posted October 01, 2013 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EmpressMendez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry about your loss, Twirl

First thing I noticed is Tr Pluto conjunct her asc ruler (Moon) in the 6th house..must have been depressing for her (6th = house of health).

Edited to add - http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/211007.html

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted October 01, 2013 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oops, just saw that you'd posted a chart as well, sorry I somehow missed that.

What I saw in the chart was that Tr. Uranus (her 8th house ruler of endings, death) was squaring her natal Moon and opposing her Pluto.

Tr. Pluto was also conjunct her Moon and square her North Node

Looks like it was her destiny/time to go with the NN being activated by a square from Pluto.
She may have been going through very tough and dark period, emotionally...

I am deeply sorry, Twirl

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Twirl
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posted October 02, 2013 02:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Empress & Lavender
Very interesting information about Moon - Pluto.
TSun was also passing Saturn, maybe lighting up that difficult Saturn area (I am no fan of Saturn, it sucks up all the joy in my opinion leaving endless hopeless roads ahead )

Also interesting that Chiron & Pisces might be a harder combination, because Pisces is already sensitive & ruled by Neptune.

@Lavender: I understood she did feel it like that, that it was her destiny to go (she was very spiritual)
Why would a square from Pluto show that time?

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted October 02, 2013 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Twirl:
Thank you Empress & Lavender
Very interesting information about Moon - Pluto.
TSun was also passing Saturn, maybe lighting up that difficult Saturn area (I am no fan of Saturn, it sucks up all the joy in my opinion leaving endless hopeless roads ahead )

Also interesting that Chiron & Pisces might be a harder combination, because Pisces is already sensitive & ruled by Neptune.

@Lavender: I understood she did feel it like that, that it was her destiny to go (she was very spiritual)
Why would a square from Pluto show that time?


No problem Twirl, you are most welcome

The North Node is indicative of destiny and the future basically, so with Pluto (planet of change, transformations, death/rebirth, endings, spiritual realms) squaring it, this indicates that it was her destiny (NN) at this time to go through some sort of major upheaval (square) and pass on into the spirit realms (Pluto).

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Selene
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posted October 02, 2013 04:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's another one:

Here's another one for you to study if you want. This is my dad's chart. On this day he decided to hang himself due to the problems at work which weren't so unbearable if you ask me. We could deal with them, but apparently he didn't see any other choice. I guess that transits could do something about it, because normally he wasn't prone to depression or else. I still miss him.


From what i see there... Firstly, his natal chart with Sun conjunct Pluto exact wasn't of any help. It implies huge power within a person, but it was not channeled properly. He couldn't express himself as he would, he started having problems with alcohol.

I guess that this day and period was a test for him that he did not pass. You see - an exact SATURN RETURN!!! Pluto squared this Saturn return by a degree. Major struggle with this power and limitations what they implied.

Transit Chiron opposed natal Sun-Pluto conjunction.
If you see anything else, you're welcome to tell me.

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Twirl
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posted October 02, 2013 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Selene:
Here's another one:

Here's another one for you to study if you want. This is my dad's chart. On this day he decided to hang himself due to the problems at work which weren't so unbearable if you ask me. We could deal with them, but apparently he didn't see any other choice. I guess that transits could do something about it, because normally he wasn't prone to depression or else. I still miss him.


From what i see there... Firstly, his natal chart with Sun conjunct Pluto exact wasn't of any help. It implies huge power within a person, but it was not channeled properly. He couldn't express himself as he would, he started having problems with alcohol.

I guess that this day and period was a test for him that he did not pass. You see - an exact SATURN RETURN!!! Pluto squared this Saturn return by a degree. Major struggle with this power and limitations what they implied.

Transit Chiron opposed natal Sun-Pluto conjunction.
If you see anything else, you're welcome to tell me.


Hi Selene,
I'm so sorry about your loss

From what I've just learned from the other thread on astrology for beginners, Mars might play a role when it is a rather 'violent way' of departing earth. TMars seems to be conjunct his natal sun & also Tsaturn conjunct Nsaturn (was he 29?)is really not helpful. Reading into the effects of a Saturn return might help you understand the effect of that aspect.
My Saturn return was the most awful thing ever & it felt like literally everything crumbled (if you know tarot, for me it was a complete Tower-experience).

Uranus also passed his north node. I'm not sure what that does to be honest. But I can imagine it may triple the effect felt by the saturn conjunction (it's impossible to continue the old way) & the urge for change that I can imagine Uranus push is on the north node. That may cause major stress. Especially if you are trying really hard to hold on to the old & what you know(Please correct me if I'm wrong, experienced astrologers).

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Twirl
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posted October 02, 2013 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
No problem Twirl, you are most welcome

The North Node is indicative of destiny and the future basically, so with Pluto (planet of change, transformations, death/rebirth, endings, spiritual realms) squaring it, this indicates that it was her destiny (NN) at this time to go through some sort of major upheaval (square) and pass on into the spirit realms (Pluto).


Thank you Lavender
But wouldn't the intention of Pluto be that you come out 'transformed' at the other side? Or perhaps the transformation here was from life into spirit (or whatever belief system people may have).

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NoRainNoRainbows
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posted October 02, 2013 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NoRainNoRainbows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Sorry about this Twirl.

you know i'm not that expeirenced with charts, but two things jumped out, something heavy about her transits in cancer.

Her natal chiron conjunct transiting moon, and her natal sun (which i see as the self) conjunct transiting chiron.

old wounds that she never over came, may have all resurfaced, and along with Jupiter in the watery and emotional cancer, (12th house to) she couldn't control it....no Earth or Fire, anywhere in her chart which could have offered her some stability in this moment. She may have wanted to end the pain, not life itself, (Chiron conjunct sun, could mean a 'new start')...but she couldn't see clearly.

Her way of using pills says it 'end the pain' as opposed to the 'i'm in a lot of pain' of shooting or stabbing oneself.

sorry about this, hope shes in peace wherever she is now.

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NoRainNoRainbows
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posted October 02, 2013 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NoRainNoRainbows     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also agree with the transiting Neptune conjunct her Pisces sun ...things look troubling, as she couldn't see them as they are or figure them out....
Suicide is all to heart breaking, so just once again hope she found peace.

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Twirl
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posted October 02, 2013 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NoRainNoRainbows:

Sorry about this Twirl.

you know i'm not that expeirenced with charts, but two things jumped out, something heavy about her transits in cancer.

Her natal chiron conjunct transiting moon, and her natal sun (which i see as the self) conjunct transiting chiron.

old wounds that she never over came, may have all resurfaced, and along with Jupiter in the watery and emotional cancer, (12th house to) she couldn't control it....no Earth or Fire, anywhere in her chart which could have offered her some stability in this moment. She may have wanted to end the pain, not life itself, (Chiron conjunct sun, could mean a 'new start')...but she couldn't see clearly.

Her way of using pills says it 'end the pain' as opposed to the 'i'm in a lot of pain' of shooting or stabbing oneself.

sorry about this, hope shes in peace wherever she is now.


Rainbow

Oh wow, good observation. Not enough earth there, since The Moon is already water & in earth in this case.
Only the chiron is earth and Chiron is painful of course, so that could not have helped.

Thanks

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Lavender CrystalSwan
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posted October 02, 2013 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lavender CrystalSwan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Twirl:
Thank you Lavender
But wouldn't the intention of Pluto be that you come out 'transformed' at the other side? Or perhaps the transformation here was from life into spirit (or whatever belief system people may have).


Yes, transformation can happen in several different types of ways, and with your friend, it manifested as her transitioning from a human body into pure spirit.

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Twirl
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posted October 03, 2013 06:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lavender CrystalSwan:
Yes, transformation can happen in several different types of ways, and with your friend, it manifested as her transitioning from a human body into pure spirit.

Very clear. Thanks

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