posted October 24, 2013 04:41 AM            

I feel alone and then I feel guilty for feeling sorry for myself, since there are so many people who have it so much worse than me.. And it's a never ending cycle lol

posted October 24, 2013 09:45 AM            

I have Sun square Saturn exact in my natal. I had problems with accepting myself, i thought that "what can i do, i don't think i can do this, etc."

But everything changed when i changed these thoughts, when i stood up and said - enough is enough! I know what i want to achieve in my career, in what direction i go, and i will. Above all i have my ideals which i want to achieve, and due to my 11th house Moon & Jupiter conjunction, they are not my personal, but rather organizational, at a state level. And i went and did everything to achieve these goals, i am on my way yet, but i already have gathered many friends, my social life has totally changed, i've changed. I've been appreciated, i work in a good position, i'm in touch with high-standing people, but i do all that for the sake of an idea. And that is what makes me to change in the process. And i'm happy for that.

And i know that i will achieve everything i want in my life, because i want to.

posted October 24, 2013 01:06 PM            

What I have found is this aspect makes me appreciate the little things in life. I also have a Sun Conjunct Jupiter which helps me to be optimistic in the face of these tribulations.

posted October 24, 2013 01:36 PM            

Now that I think of it, it does seem as though anything she's attempted in life has been thwarted by low self-esteem in one form or another. But I don't think it's been the luck of the draw for her, personally. It seems that she chooses her path for whatever reason.

I have Saturn trine my Sun in my natal. While I've always worked hard and received not a lot of recognition for it, I've been able to accomplish things in my life that she just...won't. She tends to allow other people to get in her way, whether it's significant others, parents, etc., and she seems to lack the self-esteem to follow through with much of anything.

I'm not sure how it would be best to use the energy of a square or opposition with Saturn and Sun, but it does seem to require getting out of one's comfort zone and doing whatever is required to meet your goals?

I've noticed that, with my friend, she refuses to accept help that is offered if it requires leaving her comfort zone (which doesn't seem very comfortable, from my perspective). She also seems to carry a sense of obligation to others that won't allow her to change her life, although she's not really following through with those obligations either, so it would be better if she would just help herself and THEN go and focus on her obligations to others (if that makes sense).

I've given her step-by-step guidelines about how she can do various things to help herself sort of dig her way out of the hole she's been in, but she simply will not follow through with any of it, so now I just leave it alone.

I wonder if this placement makes it difficult not only to help oneself, but to accept the help of others?

posted October 24, 2013 02:10 PM            

Saturn Square Sun
Saturn Square Mercury
Saturn Square Jupiter
Saturn Trine Asc
Saturn Sextile Venus
Saturn Trine Pluto
I have two T-Squares and saturn is involved in both.

posted October 24, 2013 02:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
^ You may be right. I have the conjunction and I find it difficult to accept help from others. I rarely ask others to help me.

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posted October 24, 2013 09:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
I try to stay optimistic but sometimes this aspect feels like a curse. I'm 22 and already feel like there's no escaping the downward spiral I'm in.

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posted October 25, 2013 12:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
^ Sun conjunct Saturn in 12th can be hard. I went through T. Saturn in 12th, had an extremely rough time, things beyond your control can happen in 12th, you can do nothing about it. Take a look at your transits too.

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posted October 25, 2013 12:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FireMoon:
[b]I try to stay optimistic but sometimes this aspect feels like a curse. I'm 22 and already feel like there's no escaping the downward spiral I'm in.

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posted October 25, 2013 12:49 AM            

Ditto complains from everyone else - the unrecognised work and burdens that I carry, the loneliness and lack of support and friends, connections. These aspects are definitely "On the waterfront" Marlon Brando - "I could've been a contender" - the thwarted by life or self.

On help - these aspects teach you to do it on your own and not ask for help. I can tell you from my own life that every time I have relied on someone or have been given help, it has made my life HARDER. They give you the help that they think you need or it is done half-heartedly. It leaves me in a greater mess and more work to do. This is not perfectionism, it is the bitterness that at the end of the day, you are alone and it is up to you to do it.

As for really wanting to do what you want to do as Saturn helping you, I don't think that is right (sorry Selene). You do as Saturn tells you, that is, by what sign and house it is in.

I really, really wanted and career and was progressing nicely down that route - Sun in 10th. I really wanted it, worked for it for years, sure 100% that it was what I wanted to do. I did undertake some familial obligations but my family was primarily looking after me. Come Saturn return; it knocked me out and I have NEVER recovered. It's been eight years now. Now I am a stay at home mum with a partner that works hard hours and is often not around. I have elderly parents that I have had to move up and look after - one has moderate dementia and eventually will have to go into a home - Saturn in the 4th, cancer - duties at home, the elderly and absences. I've begrudgingly accepted it. My workload is enormous and people wonder how I cope - I just do it.

I am hoping that for my next Saturn return, Saturn will forgive me and let me be my Sun for a while - my youngest child will be twenty then and I might not have as many duties then.

So that is the opposition. As for the square, it is more like a reoccurring abscess which builds up, it is red and sore and then it releases its pus and you have relief. The square is more volatile but there is some relief while the opposition is a horrible see saw you can't get off of ever.

So my advice Is that for both aspects is that pay attention to both planets. Don't be your Sun only as Saturn will punish you and don't be Saturn only or you will have no joy. Use and satisfy both planets, do things on your own, don't ask for help or rely on others, you can do it by yourself and you feel better for it and stronger for it and unfortunately, a little bit bitter but look back and see what you have achieved compared to others. I've achieved a lot actually! And remember this - you are the REALISTIC ones. Do you know how NUTS a Sun conj Jupiter friend drives me? She thinks everything is possible and glowing. No, the world is not like that; you can achieve but it comes through discipline and hard work. I'm sure anyone successful can attest to that, including the super famous and rich.

posted October 25, 2013 12:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

That's exactly how I feel at times! Like im not in control of my life! Lol it's really frustrating and drives me crazy.

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posted October 25, 2013 01:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Give your best, leave the rest in the hands of fate, unseen forces or whatever they're called.

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posted October 25, 2013 11:10 AM            

This how I am: in musical terms, it's like there is always like a baseline of low humming. That is my guilt, self-criticism, feelings of hopelessness that are practically constant.

On top of that, however, there are other notes, other rhythms, some of them light, upbeat and casual. I mean, the chart is more than Saturn.

If I've learned anything it's just to be adaptable. Having clear goals and working towards them is good, so long as I don't come crashing down on myself over every little setback.

posted October 25, 2013 02:40 PM            

It's true that she's had A LOT of "help" from the people around her, but it's been more like enabling, or debilitating. It's as though her family and significant others reinforce her belief that she can't do anything for herself, because they basically do everything for her.

Maybe that's one of the more negative manifestations of the Saturn square Sun energy. She allows others to do things for her, so she never really "gets" anywhere?

As I mentioned, I'm not going to assume that everyone with this placement acts that way or uses the energy the same way. Just kind of thinking out loud on here...

posted October 25, 2013 06:09 PM            

My Sun at 29 Taurus has the opposition transit upcoming next year though and although I'm not really looking forward to it, I got through my Saturn return recently and it was actually pretty cool.

posted October 25, 2013 06:18 PM            

Yet I have tighter sun/moon/mercury square jupiter.

I think it kinda balances out.
I get to be cynical and realistic yet have an optimism about things. I don't really stress out.

posted October 25, 2013 07:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
^ You may be right. I have the conjunction and I find it difficult to accept help from others. I rarely ask others to help me.

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I'm the same way. I have the conjunction also and i don't feel right accepting things from other people for free. It goes to the extreme sometimes (i also have sun sq pluto) like when i stopped working i wouldn't eat bc i knew i wasn't contributing to the groceries in the house lol. My family had to snap me out of it, they were so afraid i was starving myself. 
I'm happiest when i can do things for myself.

posted October 25, 2013 07:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 23:

This is not perfectionism, it is the bitterness that at the end of the day, you are alone and it is up to you to do it.

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posted October 25, 2013 09:53 PM            

I seem to be the only person I know who has Saturn trine Sun, but I did see a lot of friends and family who have either the conjunction or the square, and one with an opposition.

The people who have Saturn square Sun do seem to struggle greatly with depending on others to do things for them, when it would be much better if they would take hold of their own lives and do things for themselves. Two people I know who have this placement have depended on their parents their entire lives (literally), and have never worked. Not because they're unable to work, but because other people enable them to avoid it. By allowing others to take care of them and do everything for them, they seem to perpetuate a feeling of helplessness, or being at the mercy of others. Clearly, this is the negative manifestation of this energy, but that's what I see in my friends and family.

The opposition seems to be a rather extreme version of that. The one person I know who has the opposition also has Saturn in 12th, and while he has had some success in his life that he created without anyone's help, he seems absolutely determined to make sure that it falls apart, through his own actions.

The people I know who have Saturn conjunct Sun are the ones who are absolutely determined not to accept help from anyone, and forge their own way with often tremendous success.

posted October 26, 2013 12:02 AM            

But I'm learning and yeah I think this aspect also gives a strong drive to push through obstacles. And as others have said, knowing not to expect any free hand outs along the way can ultimately be a good thing.