posted November 15, 2013 04:53 AM            

Modern astrology unfortunately has turned in for me to be somewhat unsatisfying. A lot of the rules and observations that have been made over thousands of years have been neatly disposed by modern astrology. A good grasp of traditional astrology will really help you understand astrology. Even if you don't want to practice all of it, a lot of these things can still be applied.

Modern astrology has turned into a pseudo psychological analysis of an individual - in reference to birth charts. Traditional astrology takes a more mundane approach to things. For example, in modern astrology, one would look to the Sun for personality or ego, Moon for emotions, loving style is Venus and so forth. In traditional astrology, houses are very important and you look to the house to determine the person and what sign it falls in (this too is also practiced in modern). Traditional astrology is more fatalistic and takes on a more fortune telling aspect to it than modern - this is why people went to astrologers, to foresee what will become of the future for them.

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Two sets of houses - celestial, which is the signs and the mundane, which is the houses.

Link on meanings of houses: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/houses.html

Strength of houses are such:
1, 10, 7, 4, 11, 5, 9, 3, 2, 8, 6, 12
1st is the strongest and can be the luckiest, 12th is the unluckiest. 11th is particularly luck as it is to do with wishes. Cadent means "falling" houses and in old charts, which are seen in square forms, they are the valleys between the mountains, which are the cardinal houses.

It does not follow modern astrology, where for example, 1st house is associated with Aries and therefore, Mars. NO, NO, NO. While the houses do match with the signs, that is, Aries is associated with the first, the planets are different.

Here is a chart with associations (gold planets) with each house and planets that do well in them (Joy, green outside planets) or associated with them.

Example - House 1 - associated with Saturn as Saturn is about structure and house 1 rules the body. Also, Saturn rules barriers and doors, and it is the entry door to hour body that is the ascendant. Likewise, Saturn is the ruler of the 8th, as it is the exit door - death. Mercury is in its joy in the 1st as it is do with with mind being in the body. Moon, not mentioned in the chart above, is not mentioned, does poorly in the first as it feels vulnerable and changeable.

If you wish me to explain any other associations, drop a response on this thread.

posted November 15, 2013 05:16 AM            

I want to know about my second child. Which house and therefore, which planet (ruler of the house), represents that child?

My child is represented by the 5th house, my FIRST child is also represented by the 5th. My SECOND child is represented by the 7th house. How did I get that? I took the 5th house and then I counted three more houses - I took the first house as the 5th, the second is the 6th and the third is the 7th. I counted three houses more from the 5th because my second son is the brother of the first.

If I had a third child, then he would the brother of the second brother or the brother of the brother of the first - thus, the 9th represents the third child.

Likewise, you can do it with marriages or any objects that are somehow related. In relation to marriages - first marriage is the 7th, the second is the sibling of the first marriage and is the 9th, the third is the sibling of the 9th so it is the 11th.

You can turn the chart for many other things. Here are a few more example:

My pet dog's collar - pet is the 6th and his collar is his possession. Possessions are the 2nd house - so count two houses from the 6th starting at the 6th and you get the 7th house.

My brother's girlfriend's sister's best friend-
Brother - 3rd
Girlfriend- 7th, adding 7 to 3rd house will take you 9th house
Her sister- 3rd, adding 3 to the 9th will take you to 11th
Best friend - any friend is the 11th and adding 11 to the 11th will take you to the 9th house.
So that person is represented by the 9th house. For those practicing horary, this can be shortcut by stating the person's name and then is becomes the 7th.

Your wages are the 11th house as it is money from your boss. Your boss is the 10th and his resources or money is the 2nd house from the 10th.

posted November 15, 2013 05:23 AM            

The above chart is a summary of what the houses mean, of which most of it is replicated in modern astrology, with the exception I think of the 4th and 10th (modern astrologers flip them around for mums and dads) and the 6th, which is modern astrology which is the workplace and how you serve but traditional sees it as your servants.

posted November 15, 2013 05:26 AM            

Also i find it a bit more accurate sometimes to remember the old rulers of some of the signs (Saturn is Aqua to, and Jupiter Pisces, Mars scorpio)

posted November 15, 2013 05:35 AM            

I will get some more traditional astrology books in the future. I have plenty on horary but I want learn some traditional as well. It has helped me so much.

posted November 16, 2013 06:06 AM            

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I am curious. If I wanted the house for my grandmother, I would count four houses from the 4th right? My mother's mother?

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No, your mother in traditional astrology is the 10th and her mother is the 10th in her chart which means in your chart it is the 10th house from the 10th house, so your maternal grandmother would be the 7th.

4th house is the father, so 4th from the 4th house is your paternal grandfather OR grandparents in general (if you take the 4th to mean your heritage) or potentially parents of father (if you take first 4th as father and second 4th as parents).

Paternal grandmother specifically though, is 10th from the 4th - 1st.
Maternal grandfather specifically is 4th from the 10th, which is also the 1st.

posted November 16, 2013 06:18 AM            

quote:

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posted November 15, 2013 07:25 AM
Does traditional astrology has its own chart? I mean that I could find somewhere, or do I have to calculate everything by myself? I'm also interested in this more than typical everyday modern astrology.

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You just use a standard circular chart as modern astrology does. Horary, which is a branch of traditional astrology, uses Regiomontanus as the house system. I can't see a problem with using Placidus for other traditional astrology.

Just as an extra bit of information, if you click on the houses link above in the first post, you will how a chart was drawn in classical times. It was square in from with little peaks for the cardinal house cusps and dips for the others and a line separating the other two house groups. The chart is read in the same way as a circular one though. But given that we live inter modern world, it would be easier to read a circular chart but a circular chart doesn't differentiate quality of the houses as well as a square on.

posted November 16, 2013 06:33 AM            

I agree with Frawley's interpretation of the houses to I will use a summary of his descriptions from "The Real Astrology Applied".

4th- associated with Cancer. Ruled by the Sun and the Sun in traditional astrology is the planet of fathers. Hence, 4th represents father NOT mothers like in modern astrology. House rules also both parents, ancestors, heritage and homeland.
You can use this house in horary to determine if one should stay in their homeland or move elsewhere for prosperity.
Fourth also associated with things under ground and IMMOVABLE possessions - ie houses, fixtures, mines with resources in them. Moveable possessions are the 2nd.
A very important meaning also of the fourth is the "end of the matter". This means anything like the survival of sick people, judgments from court etc. It could also predict I believe how you fare with the end of your life, so it is tied to the 8th in that respect.

Generally, considered a happy house as it is at the bottom and the only way is up! cf 10th where you are at the top and the only way is down!

posted November 16, 2013 06:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 23:
Ms Prism-

No....

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Thank you for clearing that up!

quote:

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Originally posted by 23:
It does not follow modern astrology, where for example, 1st house is associated with Aries and therefore, Mars. NO, NO, NO. While the houses do match with the signs, that is, Aries is associated with the first, the planets are different.

Here is a chart with associations (gold planets) with each house and planets that do well in them (Joy, green outside planets) or associated with them.

If you wish me to explain any other associations, drop a response on this thread.

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posted November 17, 2013 05:11 AM            

8th house - nothing to do with sex, I believe sex is a 5th house thing - for pleasure and/or reproduction.

Death - the cusp of the 8th death and Saturn is associated with it.

From turning the chart, you are represented by the 1st and the other person by the 7th. Their resources (money, contacts, allies, possessions), is their second house which is your 8th. That's why things like inheritance is ruled by the 8th as is your husband's/wife's etc wealth.

Oh, it also rules waste and rubbish too.

12th house - self undoing (self entrapment and confinement, how we limit ourselves through our gut/non-logical beliefs), treacherous matters, secret enemies. Debilitating house where planets lose their abilities to act.

I recently ran an horary asking about a person who had died. His significator was in the 12th, he did self undo, committed suicide.

After the 10th, the only way is down and this the end of the path before new life of the first house.

Saturn associated with this house because it is an unlucky house and Saturn is the great malefic but Venus in joy there. Our foolishness associated with 12th but following Saturn can guide us out of it.

posted November 17, 2013 09:55 PM            

Saturn is very strong in the 1st house as it is associated with the 1st house. How it affects the chart owner will depend on the sign of Saturn. The first house is the body and in the day, these traditional astrologers would determine the life length and constitution of the person by looking at the first. A good Saturn, that is one domicile in Capricorn or one exalted in libra would indicate that the person is a physically healthy person who would mechanically sound for most of their lives or someone who would have a long life. Of course, a Saturn in Cancer or Aries would indicate problems with the body or a shortened life. While peregrine placements would indicate that the person would be average, passable.