posted November 29, 2013 01:00 PM            

It's the house were instinct and emotions of all kinds hold sway.

So on certain primal levels, it can be very rewarding. Like, let's say your partner and you have a huge fight, he hits you, then he buys you all sorts of lovely things to make up for it, is super nice to you, showers you with love, affection, attention because he feels horrible. This is one possible twelfth house type scenarios. There are many others, often guilt is involved. This is the house of guilt, too.

Even though he did something terrible, he is trying to make up for it by being so wonderful, so you benefit from that even though you did not from the fight. It sounds kinda warped, but it is a benefit of some kind and such an incident could change him forever, cause him to realize he needs to become a different people. Some people do change. This is how twelfth house works on the soul level. This idea the soul must refine itself somehow. Accepting this idea.

posted November 29, 2013 03:11 PM            

Agree completely.

posted November 29, 2013 05:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Naaah. Doux puts her Moon into my 12th and we're doing great. Right, hun?

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posted November 29, 2013 05:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Nope, it's in my second

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posted November 29, 2013 05:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Doux puts her Moon into my 12th and we're doing great. Right, hun?

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Yep, so far, so good!

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Indication of true love.

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posted November 29, 2013 05:48 PM            

Very spiritual (and probably karmic) relationships for all of us.

My husband and I most definitely fight (not violently, but rather loudly sometimes), but we learn to compromise more every day as time goes on. Neither one of us is particularly great at compromising (he has Leo Sun, I have Leo AC, conjunct, and a few other aspects that make us both incredibly stubborn).

However, there are some very loving, caring aspects with Venus, Moon, and Vertex with our charts, and my NN is also opposite his Saturn, so SN conjunct Saturn. His NN is conjunct my DC, etc.

I really think it depends on the planets/points involved with both charts.

posted November 29, 2013 06:02 PM            

She still uses drugs, is in an abusive relationship, won't change, isn't often available because her boyfriend controls every phone conversation she has, etc.
So I've tried to help her, and she doesn't seem to want to help herself, so... There has been a distance that I've been forced to create between us. But it took decades for that to happen, and we're still close in our way.

So there's that.
I'll just have to have faith that my marriage won't turn out like that. We're pretty committed to each other, so my hope is that we'll just continue to grow with each other like we do, and will not drift apart. Fingers crossed.

posted November 29, 2013 08:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mcmlxix:
Can't relationships that involve the 12th also imply unrequited love or being with people who are unavailable...emotionally, or because they're already married, etc?

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Yup, that too. It's really complicated. I just listed one possible twelfth house love situation but it can manifest in all sorts of weird, complicated ways. Primal emotions are generally involved. For instance, the ex bf of a woman is getting married and when she hears about it, she is plummeted into depression. The woman has twelfth house synastry with him.

posted November 30, 2013 12:06 AM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Yup, that too.

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Like all of the poor Leos (ok...only two) that that have been drawn to my Leo Venus like a moth to the flame...except my Venus is in the 12th.

There's one in particular that I think of often.

posted November 30, 2013 12:33 AM            

I think if a person has a personal planet, or maybe 2-3 then maybe it has a better chance of working? Well, I should say may not be as challenging.

posted November 30, 2013 12:38 AM            

I know I mentioned in another thread that my Moon is in my ex's 12th, and it was extremely difficult for both of us to let go of that relationship. Years after I had been with my husband, he would still call me to try to "apologize", only to end up blaming me for whatever went wrong in our relationship, and we would end up in a yelling match. I had to stop answering his calls and texts, and accept the fact that we would never be able to be friends, despite being together on and off for ten years.

Another ex had his Moon in my 12th, and it was a similar scenario. He carried my picture around with him long after I had started a relationship with someone else. I still try to find him sometimes, but can find no trace of him anywhere. I often wonder if he's still alive, and it bothers me. I had to sever ties with him as well, which is unfortunate.

With the ex of ten years there was A LOT of deception on his part, and a lot of very warranted distrust on my part. It definitely was a very weird relationship that I can't really put into words, but we were both certainly changed deeply by the relationship.

The other ex definitely seemed like a karmic experience. We experienced a terrible trauma together, and neither one of us will ever be the same after that experience.

The same for my best friend, with my NN conjunct her Neptune in 12th. We also experienced a terrible trauma together, a year to the day connected to the other trauma (if that makes sense).

My husband and I both have Yods, and as I mentioned in another thread my Vertex is conjunct the apex of his Yod (his Moon), and his Ceres is conjunct the apex of my Yod (my Saturn) both by less than 1 degree. My Isis is conjunct his Osiris by about 1 degree, etc.

So I tend to think of my personal 12th house synastry as very karmic, and with my husband and I it feels very spiritual.

My mom also has her Sun in my 12th, and our relationship is very argumentative and weird. So I suppose it just depends, really.

posted November 30, 2013 12:39 AM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
From my experience, being familiar with twelfth house energy doesn't really make much of a difference. If you are familiar with it, your instincts make you more wary of it. You know that feeling. You run.

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Haha, good point!

How about this? Another speculation that I had that Violets made me think about.

She's almost 39 and her husband 42. Maybe age helps with maturing those energies. Maybe the Saturn return to give us lessons about it?

posted November 30, 2013 12:48 AM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Haha, good point!

How about this? Another speculation that I had that Violets made me think about.

She's almost 39 and her husband 42. Maybe age helps with maturing those energies. Maybe the Saturn return to give us lessons about it?

EDIT: I'm stuck as I want nothing more, but run like crazy when it gets close. (Not just love, but women generally)
I had ONE ex who's venus fell into my 12th. That was in 2008 and just last month actually she spent about a week REALLY trying to convince me to give the relationship a second chance. I'm just really not interested. Kind of seems like Karma, but that it's served its purpose already so it'd just be going backwards.

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posted November 30, 2013 12:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
It eventually becomes spiritual once the primal energies are refined imo but it's a slow process.
This house is mostly about drives people do not understand and being out of sync. It works on a subconscious level so that it is very difficult to discern or be objective about. Unseen. Things you do not understand and might not even know. Everything that gets done and you try to deny it or might not really understand. It's like when someone does something and when someone asks them about it, they turn around and say they never did it when you just watched them. You cannot understand why they would deny it, even when you tell them you just saw them with your own eyes. They will deny it again. Typical twelfth house. I know because my mother and I have tremendous twelfth house energy, eleventh, too, so I am well accustomed to the twelfth house affect. A lot of her chart rests in my twelfth house and I also have a twelfth house stellium in my natal chart. I know this place in my sleep, inside out.

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I envy you that you know it so well.

So how has this played a role in your relationship with your mother over time? If I may ask..?

Have you, together, conquered some of its challenges?
Are there many, specifically 12th house challenges that you two just never have been able to resolve?
Has it brought you closer?