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Author Topic:   Which is crueller: Saturn or Neptune?
summerlite
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posted February 12, 2014 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for summerlite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For natal, I don't view outer planets as a problem.

For transits, people would find Neptune would be harder since it is after all a dream shattered while Saturn is more of a lesson learnt.

For synastry, it really depends on the natal. Some people know that harsh Saturn restrictions from their partner is to teach them so they embrace it. There are those who would rather choose to fall hopelessly in the idealization of love....but hey, they like it.

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AscTaurus
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posted February 12, 2014 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AscTaurus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I fear Neptune's nebulous web more than Saturn's taciturn sting.

Neptune is the religious nightmare that many Nigerian LGBT people are having to deal with.

People using "God" as an excuse for the many atrocities leveled against the LGBT people.

Neptune is the constant mission to wake from a "dream" state, passive living,hypnotism and mass hysteria.And when waking, realizing that you've wasted your existence in sleep.

Saturn is more definitive. Though extremely painful, Saturn gives you the real deal.
"You are aging", "You'll never get to travel the world"," It is too late to do that now" etc.

Saturn may make one more pessimistic and cynical; not to mention downright booooring.

But Neptune tends to take you up to extreme highs and then , if you survive the fall, you are left to clean up the pieces.

As a Sun-Neptune conjunct, I can't recall how many times I'd wished that I could have used common sense in some life experiences -instead of being taken up by my own "wishing will make it so".


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next to neptune
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posted February 12, 2014 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Synastry: Saturn

I'd much rather hear those words from neptune, than from saturn…saturn is just deadly boring, and I don't need realism in my relationship, I don't care as long as we love each other! Saturn - go home!

Transit: Maybe I think neptune is worse, cause it's not good to be delusional in your daily life, it could be very dangerous, and often leads to drug abuse, or suicide...

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Queen Salome
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posted February 12, 2014 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Queen Salome     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune!
Neptune!
Neptune!
You can't advance if you see the world through Neptunian-colored glasses.

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vickymadness
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posted February 12, 2014 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vickymadness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At least there are results with Saturn.
#ILoveNeptuneButStopBashingOnSaturn

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mcmlxix
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posted February 12, 2014 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mcmlxix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I’m down on Saturn because natally it squares my Venus, which has been a big problem my whole life. Neptune trines my Moon.

Neptune transits have been more difficult though. I experience them as a defocusing rather than an all is rosy filter. It’s hard to do something if you can’t see it, not for what it really is, but at all. I’d rather have the deception…I’m willing to fall down the rabbit hole as long as it’s good while it lasts.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmlxix:
I’m down on Saturn because natally it squares my Venus, which has been a big problem my whole life. Neptune trines my Moon.

Neptune transits have been more difficult though. I experience them as a defocusing rather than an all is rosy filter. It’s hard to do something if you can’t see it, not for what it really is, but at all. I’d rather have the deception…I’m willing to fall down the rabbit hole as long as it’s good while it lasts.



Have you experienced depression? You have Virgo rising so Venus isn't particularly strong.

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incognito
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posted February 12, 2014 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for incognito     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
strongly agree. neptune sux

quote:
Originally posted by arcturiann:
Neptune, definitely neptune. To me bad neptune aspects/transits are like seeing visions of the most wonderful utopia, most beautiful art, everything you could ever want, the perfect relationship, the perfect home, then coming back to reality to realize that you'll never have any of those things in your life ever. It can be a really abrasive crash when you come back down, like you were in the heavens earlier and now you're in some rat infested smog filled town where everyones an a$$hole.

Whereas Saturn tells you upfront "listen, this is a rat infested smog filled town full of a$$holes, get it the f**k together or you're gonna live out of that dumpster". I feel more like you actually learn something from saturn transits, whereas neptune is like some sort of a divine tease that makes you feel like a heartbroken heroin addict trying to chase after imaginary unicorns

I am cap rising with saturn as my chart ruler in the first house so this might make saturnian energy a bit easier for me to deal with.


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mcmlxix
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posted February 12, 2014 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mcmlxix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
Have you experienced depression? You have Virgo rising so Venus isn't particularly strong.

My Venus isn't strong because it's in my 12th? Then my Venus is being hit not only by the Saturn square, but also by Neptune.

So depression is related to a Saturn afflicted Venus and/or 12th house Venus? To answer your question, yes, and mania too.

I don’t know if it’s because of Leo (in love with being in love) Venus or what, but I fall in love fast. But it’s always with someone who’s totally unavailable or wrong for me...how 12th house! Luckily I’m able to fall out of love as quickly without any harm done.

Now that Neptune is crossing over my DSC for the last time and entering my Piscean 7th house, I can only imagine all of that will increase. Still, I’d rather relationships be hit by Neptune than Saturn.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmlxix:
My Venus isn't strong because it's in my 12th? Then my Venus is being hit not only by the Saturn square, but also by Neptune.

So depression is related to a Saturn afflicted Venus and/or 12th house Venus? To answer your question, yes, and mania too.

I don’t know if it’s because of Leo (in love with being in love) Venus or what, but I fall in love fast. But it’s always with someone who’s totally unavailable or wrong for me...how 12th house! Luckily I’m able to fall out of love as quickly without any harm done.

Now that Neptune is crossing over my DSC for the last time and entering my Piscean 7th house, I can only imagine all of that will increase. Still, I’d rather relationships be hit by Neptune than Saturn.


Mercury would be the strongest planet since it rules your rising sign. Venus in the twelfth is accidentally exalted and rules your second house cusp unless intercepted.
I think of Venus as an antidote to depression because it represents what we lack when depressed. I guess when Saturn squares Venus, the effect is strong regardless of the chart ruler. I thought mine was worse because Venus rules my chart.
Venus is, by far, the most dominant planet (for me) according to Pullen, it has the square to Saturn and I have been depressed from a young age. I also have a diagnosis of ADHD which is like mania in a way. Physically I am not as manic as when young but I still have the mental mania which I channel into writing.
Venus square Saturn can be tough on the love life, I agree. It's not an easy aspect to experience.
Neptune is about to oppose my sun again, then it will yours. Mine is from sixth to twelfth house. It hasn't entered the sixth yet. I am so used to Neptune, I don't notice it that much. I live the Neptunian life already.

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Belage
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posted February 12, 2014 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arcturiann:
Neptune, definitely neptune. To me bad neptune aspects/transits are like seeing visions of the most wonderful utopia, most beautiful art, everything you could ever want, the perfect relationship, the perfect home, then coming back to reality to realize that you'll never have any of those things in your life ever. It can be a really abrasive crash when you come back down, like you were in the heavens earlier and now you're in some rat infested smog filled town where everyones an a$$hole.

Whereas Saturn tells you upfront "listen, this is a rat infested smog filled town full of a$$holes, get it the f**k together or you're gonna live out of that dumpster". I feel more like you actually learn something from saturn transits, whereas neptune is like some sort of a divine tease that makes you feel like a heartbroken heroin addict trying to chase after imaginary unicorns

I am cap rising with saturn as my chart ruler in the first house so this might make saturnian energy a bit easier for me to deal with.



I have to agree with you.

I am Pisces rising so Neptune is my chart ruler and I can tell you when Neptune illusions mess with you, it's the worse thing that can happen. At least with Saturn, there is a lesson to be learned and you can actually benefit from it later.

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Belage
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posted February 12, 2014 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vickymadness:
At least there are results with Saturn.
#ILoveNeptuneButStopBashingOnSaturn

LOL at the hastag!

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Belage
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posted February 12, 2014 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So there seems to be a consensus that Neptune is the cruelest...

We see you, Neptune! You're not fooling us no more! LOL

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mcmlxix
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posted February 12, 2014 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mcmlxix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SSS:

Ack…don’t talk of Neptune opposite Sun…Neptune still hasn’t finished with my DSC! What orb are you using for Neptune opposing your Sun? It won’t oppose my 14 Virgo 38 Sun until 2017. All of 2015 Pluto will be trining my Sun. That’ll be beneficial.

When Neptune entered my 6th, I lost my job. I’ve managed to work my way into a corporation with career growth...but I hate it here...it’s not what I want out of life. My health also went poorly. Among a whole litany, I had my gallbladder out twice (don’t ask), racked up some allergies and autoimmune disorders, and the bipolar was officially diagnosed after MUCH mayhem. Good luck!

So I’m curious what it’ll do to my 7th. I think I’ll take the Beatle’s advice and turn off my mind, relax, and float down stream. How Piscean/Neptunian.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmlxix:
SSS:

Ack…don’t talk of Neptune opposite Sun…Neptune still hasn’t finished with my DSC! What orb are you using for Neptune opposing your Sun? It won’t oppose my 14 Virgo 38 Sun until 2017. All of 2015 Pluto will be trining my Sun. That’ll be beneficial.

When Neptune entered my 6th, I lost my job. I’ve managed to work my way into a corporation with career growth...but I hate it here...it’s not what I want out of life. My health also went poorly. Among a whole litany, I had my gallbladder out twice (don’t ask), racked up some allergies and autoimmune disorders, and the bipolar was officially diagnosed after MUCH mayhem. Good luck!

So I’m curious what it’ll do to my 7th. I think I’ll take the Beatle’s advice and turn off my mind, relax, and float down stream. How Piscean/Neptunian.



Sorry to read about your troubles with Neptune in the sixth
You are handling it the right way that's what I do!

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Violets
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posted February 12, 2014 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeesh. Just reading this stuff makes me cringe.

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mcmlxix
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posted February 12, 2014 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mcmlxix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I think of Venus as an antidote to depression because it represents what we lack when depressed. I guess when Saturn squares Venus, the effect is strong regardless of the chart ruler. I thought mine was worse because Venus rules my chart.

I see depression as comping from a place of lack or scarcity. I'd think Jupiter (Libra) would be a good antidote. I could also see depression being Neptunian. Alcohol/drugs are certainly depressive. Interestingly, Pisces was ruled by Jupiter before Neptune came along.

Well yes, Mercury rules my chart, and my Mercury is 2nd house Libra...both ruled by Venus. In any case, I feel "ruled" by mutability...if that makes sense.


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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmlxix:
I see depression as comping from a place of lack or scarcity. I'd think Jupiter (Libra) would be a good antidote. I could also see depression being Neptunian. Alcohol/drugs are certainly depressive. Interestingly, Pisces was ruled by Jupiter before Neptune came along.

Well yes, Mercury rules my chart, and my Mercury is 2nd house Libra...both ruled by Venus. In any case, I feel "ruled" by mutability...if that makes sense.


Since you are a double Virgo, it makes sense. With Jupiter being the greater benefic, it can bring happiness, too. I love all the Libran pursuits with Jupiter there. I find relief in Libran activities and a balanced state of mind helps.

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NeptunianSag
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posted February 13, 2014 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeptunianSag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Neptune dream shattered can be worse than a Scorpio sting.

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enchantress299
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posted February 13, 2014 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enchantress299     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ew. This is a difficult question for me to answer as my hard Neptune transit hit at about the same time as my Saturn return (so I got a double whammy).

I'd personally say Neptune is more difficult for me, mostly because I don't deal well with mind fog/deception by those close to me. Also, now that the Neptune transit is finally ALMOST off of my t-square, I feel emotionally numbed out and I really don't like that feeling. I generally have a lot of passion/enthusiasm about life, love, the future.

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Yanmorg
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posted February 13, 2014 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yanmorg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
definitely Neptune in my experience. Even though I don't know this guy's birth chart,I know for a fact that we had a lot of hard Neptune and Uranus aspects in our composite chart or we were going through a Neptune transit for a year and a half (how long the affair lasted). He was a double Taurus and he strung me along with incredible sex and empty promises.. it was amazing, but heartbreaking once he randomly cut me off cold without warning a week after he told me he loved me for the first time in over a year. He has his Venus opposite Uranus, Mars opposite Uranus, Mars opposite Neptune, and not to mention a tight Moon opposite Pluto. He was also a double Cancer. Can you imagine the hell he put me through while also making it seem right during that Neptune transit or whatever it was? After analyzing the relationship and memories I am almost 100 percent sure we met and carried our affair out during a Neptune transit.. after he cut me off, it's like the fog has lifted and I am back to reality without him and I am still dealing with the pain and trying to forget everything that has happened even though in a twisted way, it felt beautiful. He will never commit and he was very selfish. It wasn't all bad, but looking back on what he did and didn't do during our affair, I deserved so much better and he definitely wasn't the guy for me, but Neptune has a way of putting the veil over our eyes without warning.. at least Saturn's presence can be felt and is cut and dry.. no secrets with Saturn because its presence can never go unnoticed. Neptune is too secretive and deceiving.. especially in relationships.

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Kerosene
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posted February 13, 2014 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can choose saturn.. more magical neptune 4 me

did you know everyone in my family has moon conjunct neptune?

I grew up around that ish my whole life.

Yeah they aren't very realistic but they are all dreamy beautiful eccentric people lol

and asteroid DNA conjunct neptune exact lol!

my longest relationship was neptunian-uranian and it was really beautiful i don't want anything in my life to be basic and boring.

Saturn is really the force that causes us to be force to go to school and work.

Yeah neptune shatters dreams too but it was fun while it lasted.
You can make up new dreams!

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Violets
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posted February 14, 2014 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know.
I have had a lot of Saturn transits, and they're always really hard for me--whether it's Saturn transiting, or something hitting my Saturn. It's not that strong in my chart, but at least it makes a trine to my Sun, and a very wide orb, 7 degree sextile to my Moon.

I have much more Neptune action going on in my chart, the apex of both a small talent triangle and a T-square, conjunct my NN. My Sun is my chart Ruler, and it's ruled by Neptune, so it's a personal planet.

That by itself has created a lot of dishevelment in my life, but I've managed to overcome most of that.

But Neptune oppostite my Moon right now has me in a complete mental fog, indecisive, and just wanting to "go with the flow" when I'm usually pretty decisive after some thought.

I am disliking this Neptune transit hitting my T-square and transiting through my 8th while we talk about moving and changing our lifestyle.

Also, nothing good ever comes from outer planets hitting my 8th house where my Sun and BML reside. Like, ever.

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SunMoonStars
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posted February 14, 2014 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunMoonStars     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good points about Neptune, everybody.

I definitely agree.

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Kibriana
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posted February 14, 2014 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kibriana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd go for Neptune every time! With Saturn you know where you stand and what you have to do to make things better, like - get real, go to work, don't quit. Also, there is no doubt about what's the right thing to do. With Neptune, well, I sometimes have a feeling that whatever I do is not good enough or sufficient. And then there is that "awesome" feeling that you're doing whatever you should be doing, but since we're talking about the Master of Illusions, you're usually doing just the opposite. Saturn'm message is that, if you work hard and change your persepctive, you'll get there eventually. Neptune, on the other hand, offers no such promises. So, I'd say Neptune is definitively worse of the two.

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