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Author Topic:   Which is crueller: Saturn or Neptune?
gemstone
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posted February 11, 2014 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gemstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a weird question I guess, but I was thinking: I always hear people saying how much they dislike saturn in astrology; due to how cold and restrictive it can be - natally, in synastry and in transit. But isn't neptune actually the more hurtful planet? Saturn shows us harsh realities, but at least its usualy blunt and straightforward - like tearing off a band-aid, lol. He's mean but doesn't lie to us or give false hope.

But neptune allows us to be deluded/decieved. Like if your partner had gambled away your home...


Saturn: I'm sorry, but I lost our house in a poker game. We can't ever have it back. Ever. Its okay if you want a divorce, that's perfectly logical. In fact, I think its for the best. The repo men are coming tomorrow, the new owners already have the property deeds.

Neptune: Honey? You better sit down. Maybe you'd like a drink, some red wine perhaps? Here, I got you these roses at the store. I know they're your favorites. So...um...gee, I guess I have some bad news. Wow, did I tell you how pretty you look today? I'm so glad I married you. Oh, right! The bad news. Okay, well, the thing is...we may not be able to live in this house for much longer. Hey, don't start crying - I didn't say *definitely*! I mean, we might still have a chance at keeping it. See, I gambled it away in a poker game but the guy says if I can find $5k by next Wednesday, he'll give it back. Oh wait, sorry, did I say $5k? I meant $500k.

Based on your own experiences of Saturn/Neptune; both in your natal chart, in synastry, and through transits, which would you personally say causes the most pain?

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Nicole401
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posted February 11, 2014 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nicole401     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say Saturn, from my personal experience (though I don't have much lol) and that's somewhat biased considering I haven't had a hard transitting Neptune aspect (or ANY at all that I can remember lol, other than trining my Venus right now, which I don't exactly feel the effects of).

Neptune is softer, I don't know, I just feel he's nicer - even if he smooth talks, who doesn't like a smooth talker?! LOL

Wheareas Saturn well, Saturn is structure, and your life is based around structure. When T. Uranus was conjunct Saturn 2 yrs. ago ... It was so painful to say the least. My whole life was turned upside down - more than it'd ever had before (Uranus is prominent in my chart, so I get a lot of "shook-ups")

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arcturiann
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posted February 11, 2014 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for arcturiann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune, definitely neptune. To me bad neptune aspects/transits are like seeing visions of the most wonderful utopia, most beautiful art, everything you could ever want, the perfect relationship, the perfect home, then coming back to reality to realize that you'll never have any of those things in your life ever. It can be a really abrasive crash when you come back down, like you were in the heavens earlier and now you're in some rat infested smog filled town where everyones an a$$hole.

Whereas Saturn tells you upfront "listen, this is a rat infested smog filled town full of a$$holes, get it the f**k together or you're gonna live out of that dumpster". I feel more like you actually learn something from saturn transits, whereas neptune is like some sort of a divine tease that makes you feel like a heartbroken heroin addict trying to chase after imaginary unicorns

I am cap rising with saturn as my chart ruler in the first house so this might make saturnian energy a bit easier for me to deal with.

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Gabby
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posted February 11, 2014 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I'm going to have a bad experience with one or the other I'd prefer it be with Saturn!
If I'm going to be run over, I prefer to see it coming like a semi heading straight for me....not a mass murderer that introduces himself into my life as my best friend!

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12muddy
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posted February 11, 2014 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 12muddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
saturn is my dominant, followed closely by neptune.

Saturn causes me more troubles n more pain, but gives me enough to deal with those troubles. With neptune it isn't that straight-forward. So yeah I'm more wary when it comes to neptune. I have a 12th house stellium, so yah I'm aware of its effects.

Eh saturn gambling ? n betting a whole house? kaka def not a stereotypical cautious saturn then lol j.k

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12muddy
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posted February 11, 2014 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 12muddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arcturiann:

I am cap rising with saturn as my chart ruler in the first house so this might make saturnian energy a bit easier for me to deal with.

Yeah, I have the same placements n I feel like this too.

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NeptunianSag
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posted February 11, 2014 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeptunianSag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As much as I hate Saturn, Neptune has got to be cruel at times, mainly because you can't escape it, your left chasing rainbows that don't even exist, at least with Saturn you achieve.

Hmm but I guess with a Neptunian illusion shattered you could also be learning, the problem is rarely that these illusions get broken, and even if that's the case your still quite tempted to believe in that fantasy again.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 11, 2014 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune is a lot worse in many ways because people refuse to acknowledge there's a problem and they see everything is alright, or, one is too sensitive to their environment or hurting in some way and the people around can't or won't understand.
With Saturn you know the reason why you feel sad or beat down and people will look at you and feel sad, too. They might even help relieve you in some way.
With Neptune people will deny you have a burden or they will try to help you in ways that do more harm than good without realizing it.

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deepseablues
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posted February 11, 2014 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for deepseablues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune/Saturn on same same degree as asc in cap involved in t-square.
There is no separating the harshness, they are too different types to be compared.
Too much to say, too much pain.

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Kerosene
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posted February 11, 2014 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Idk I would rather have neptune squares vs saturn..

I only have positive aspects from saturn so I'm not really that emotionally cold.
Just realistic.

the only thing with saturn is that you can be so cynical and not really enjoy life... I'd imagine with squares/oppositions it makes it a lot more worse.

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Faith
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posted February 12, 2014 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
If I'm going to have a bad experience with one or the other I'd prefer it be with Saturn!
If I'm going to be run over, I prefer to see it coming like a semi heading straight for me....not a mass murderer that introduces himself into my life as my best friend!

Ditto!

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Venusian Moon
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posted February 12, 2014 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Venusian Moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune. Its a fantasy and you eventually wake up and it can be painful.

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Kerosene
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posted February 12, 2014 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Getting hit by a car sounds more like mars..

Saturn hits you with freaking obstacles lol

Besides I like surprises and with neptune it's bittersweet.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's actually worse than just being "all fantasy." It's impossible to describe unless you have dealt with it. That's what's Neptune is all about, what cannot be put into words just experienced and it alters you in some way, not necessarily a good way. It's not the kind of change you experience with Pluto, more like, an altered state that you may or may not function better in.
Plus, there's the confused state which is just disordered.
And then the Neptune people are not able to function on earth easily, in general. It feels too harsh and there's a romantic temperament, a craving for some place else or the feeling this life is a dream, you will wake up in your real life, it will be perfect. All your ideals and longings. It can feel like treading quicksand.
It might actually rule being detached from life in several ways, through outside stimulus introduced to the physical being, astral projection, asceticism as part of a spiritual doctrine, or just fugue states of some kind. Hunger strikes.
It can also rule aesthetics in surgery and any strange phenomena or devastating side effects such as waking up consciously while the part of the brain that controls movement is still under the anesthetic so to experience surgery awake but unable to let anyone know, and allergic reactions to anesthetics.
Also, post operative derangement of the mind.

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Jessica2407
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posted February 12, 2014 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jessica2407     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Both can be cruel.

But Saturn is a natural at it.

Like he doesn't need rehearsals you know.

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Gabby
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posted February 12, 2014 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Getting hit by a car sounds more like mars..

Saturn hits you with freaking obstacles lol

Besides I like surprises and with neptune it's bittersweet.


I was referring more to the fact that you can see Saturn coming, saturn doesn't hide it's intentions! Either way your going to get steam rolled but Neptune isn't kind enough to give you any foresight on it's intentions...you only realized you've been bamboozled after it's done and even then your still wondering what just happened!
I just prefer a head on collision to one I never saw coming!

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gemstone
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posted February 12, 2014 01:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gemstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arcturiann:
Whereas Saturn tells you upfront "listen, this is a rat infested smog filled town full of a$$holes, get it the f**k together or you're gonna live out of that dumpster"

lol thanks for the laugh. I totally agree with your post. Neptune just seems like a fairytale type figure, showing you everything you ever dreamed of. And then suddenly: 'Oh, I'm sorry...you have to go back to reality now.' Whereas Saturn is like the ghost of Christmas future, in that he may be cold and dark but at least he teaches a lesson.

That being said, I think he can equally cause a lot of hardships when placed in certain houses; esp. important ones like 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th etc.

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mercuryflow
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posted February 12, 2014 01:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercuryflow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
neptune.
in most casesÖ.it can lead you a long way, for a long time, into a deluded utopiaÖbe it love affair, dream job or whatever. then when the veil falls, you're f*cked.

saturn might be harsher for people who have authoritative issues. i know i don't like anyone telling me what to do. but if saturn lays it down, i bow.

i think i'd rather have an afflicted neptune though. less restraining.

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Kerosene
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posted February 12, 2014 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
that's my point exactly?

Uranus and neptune are are mischievous brothers along with pluto.

Saturn is trying to keep them all from ******* up everything but idk saturn isn't very fun...

I really just want to have fun lol.


I have transiting neptune square natal venus exact and Uranus sextile sun and moon.

It's been a very interesting year..

until Saturn hit my pluto...
now it's just stressful...

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deepseablues
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posted February 12, 2014 01:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for deepseablues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

Originally posted by Kerosene:
Getting hit by a car sounds more like mars..
Saturn hits you with freaking obstacles lol

Besides I like surprises and with neptune it's bittersweet.[\quote]

I think getting hit by a car is mars + Saturn. I had this transit along with a bunch of other messed up ones with Uranus/pluto when I got hit by a van crossing the street as a pedestrian...

[quote]
Originally posted by StarLightSupreme:
And then the Neptune people are not able to function on earth easily, in general. It feels too harsh and there's a romantic temperament, a craving for some place else or the feeling this life is a dream, you will wake up in your real life, it will be perfect. All your ideals and longings. It can feel like treading quicksand.



Yes.
and so much more. Also kinda Stockholm syndrome where you want to stay in the beautiful fog even once you start to realize the delusion/illusion because the foggy mist is so much nice than facing the harsh cold reality and admitting that you were being deluded/ deceived / etc.

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deepseablues
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posted February 12, 2014 01:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for deepseablues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Double post.

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted February 12, 2014 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deepseablues:
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Getting hit by a car sounds more like mars..
Saturn hits you with freaking obstacles lol

Besides I like surprises and with neptune it's bittersweet.[\quote]
I think getting hit by a car is mars + Saturn. I had this transit along with a bunch of other messed up ones with Uranus/pluto when I got hit by a van crossing the street as a pedestrian...

[quote]
Originally posted by StarLightSupreme:
And then the Neptune people are not able to function on earth easily, in general. It feels too harsh and there's a romantic temperament, a craving for some place else or the feeling this life is a dream, you will wake up in your real life, it will be perfect. All your ideals and longings. It can feel like treading quicksand.



Yes.
and so much more. Also kinda Stockholm syndrome where you want to stay in the beautiful fog even once you start to realize the delusion/illusion because the foggy mist is so much nicer than facing the harsh cold reality and admitting that you were being deluded/ deceived / etc.
[/QUOTE]

Stockholm Syndrome, yes, I forgot about that particular disorder. Many people are judged harshly for it later which is another part of the Neptune experience. Neptunian phenomena is typically difficult to grasp by most ordinary humans so they construct harsh judgments for what they cannot fathom and could actually fear on some level. Stockholm Syndrome, to some, looks like the victim is complying with the perpetrator but it's actually been described as a survival mechanism.

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babybull82
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posted February 12, 2014 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for babybull82     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gemstone:
This is a weird question I guess, but I was thinking: I always hear people saying how much they dislike saturn in astrology; due to how cold and restrictive it can be - natally, in synastry and in transit. But isn't neptune actually the more hurtful planet? Saturn shows us harsh realities, but at least its usualy blunt and straightforward - like tearing off a band-aid, lol. He's mean but doesn't lie to us or give false hope.

But neptune allows us to be deluded/decieved. Like if your partner had gambled away your home...


Saturn: I'm sorry, but I lost our house in a poker game. We can't ever have it back. Ever. Its okay if you want a divorce, that's perfectly logical. In fact, I think its for the best. The repo men are coming tomorrow, the new owners already have the property deeds.

Neptune: Honey? You better sit down. Maybe you'd like a drink, some red wine perhaps? Here, I got you these roses at the store. I know they're your favorites. So...um...gee, I guess I have some bad news. Wow, did I tell you how pretty you look today? I'm so glad I married you. Oh, right! The bad news. Okay, well, the thing is...we may not be able to live in this house for much longer. Hey, don't start crying - I didn't say *definitely*! I mean, we might still have a chance at keeping it. See, I gambled it away in a poker game but the guy says if I can find $5k by next Wednesday, he'll give it back. Oh wait, sorry, did I say $5k? I meant $500k.

Based on your own experiences of Saturn/Neptune; both in your natal chart, in synastry, and through transits, which would you personally say causes the most pain?


This post made me laugh, I mean I know the scenario isn't funny, but the Neptune's way of telling his wife he screwed up was hilarious to me..it's like dude get to the damn point!

For me I'd definitely say Neptune sucks! Just give it to me straight please!

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Odette
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posted February 12, 2014 02:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptune is crueller.
And imo - that applies to all transpersonal planets.
They seem to inflict more damage - both by transit and in natal, and also in synastry (when the aspects are close - mainly conjunction/opposition/square).

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Doux RÍve
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posted February 12, 2014 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doux RÍve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neptoon, yup, yup.

It gets you super high and then leaves you super low... actually it buries you underground.

Saturn can suck really bad too, though.
But yeah you kinda see it coming. "Oh right, I screwed up and now I gotta deal with this sh**" Doesn't make it more pleasant necessarily but at least you know what you got.

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