posted March 20, 2014 09:04 PM            

Yea, sag anything means speak first think later. And unless soft firmness is an innate skill, it's difficult to pull off spontaneously. But it's a lesson (saturn) for our mercuries! I love lessons. As annoying as lessons can be for others, they excite me. But I have saturn conjunct 3 of my planets. So I'm different

I have mars-pluto in 7th conjunct like your sun-pluto. I like a good fight once in a while that leads to better relationships. I think it's a good lesson for the mars-saturn folks if they're in the right place in life. "We fought, but look I'm still here. Shocking, I know." It's like peekaboo but better! If they've come from another life beating, then not appropriate. But if they're living neutrally or have other ongoing positives in life, then it'd be a good game/lesson. Done nicely, not meanly.

posted March 21, 2014 02:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sag_stellium:
Rorrr, you just used my one of my favorite words: congruence. Is it a libra thing? I have libra moon and I use congruence in situations involving logic and emotions.

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Ah Maybe! He has a Libra moon as well and uses the word congruence in situations involving logic and emotion. Interesting!

How's your Libra moon faring with all the Mercury square Mars situations? Can I ask how long you have been together? Would you rather choose peace?

quote:

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Yea, sag anything means speak first think later. And unless soft firmness is an innate skill, it's difficult to pull off spontaneously. But it's a lesson (saturn) for our mercuries!

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posted March 25, 2014 07:45 PM            

Dancing Mae & Doux Rêve... thank you so much for your invaluable insights and warnings to be careful. Your timing could not have been more right. No less than a day after this thread I had to run to the hospital and police station... Luckily I am "okay" and so is he, but any semblance of trust or hope will remain shattered long after the scrapes heal and furniture gets replaced.

My particular circumstance was exacerbated by a tight Mercury (mine) square Mars (his) so fighting was inevitable, and as with this aspect, grew worse and accelerated over time. Others with better synastry, maturity, loving compassion, and steady souls may fare much better than I did, so please don't take my example as every case, I'm only explaining my experience and what happened to me.

I think the negatives of this aspect are highly misunderstood, and it takes an impressive level of psychological insight to work through some of the issues that can present under transit or the permanent-transit that is synastry.

Cutting off is so effective sometimes it can feel great, feel empowering... but is it always best? It is a perfect form of control (Saturn) meets force (Mars) so I do think that Mars hard aspect Saturn are very very good at it. But there is such a high cost.

If anybody can walk me through what happens for Mars square Saturn after feeling or becoming violent, that would help me understand this process.

posted March 25, 2014 11:09 PM            

Protect yourself first. Men come afterwards. If you want to keep going, that's your choice. But be alert and safe.

posted March 25, 2014 11:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Orange:
A very tight Mars/Saturn square here

His Sun triggers it and makes it a tight T-square.

Volcanic outbursts when triggered, with absolutely no regard of the consequences. We just dont care about the aftermath, the destructive force is that strong.
Before the actual physical outbursts, there would be verbal warnings issued to the irritator, multiple times. You probably were given a verbal notice to cease the source of irritation. Which you ignored. And there it goes... furniture shred to pieces and cutting offensive words. When i finished with one of my outbursts, even thou- rare outbursts, there was no furniture left in the bedroom except for the bed where he was sitting silently - everything was broken to pieces and all doors were down on the floor. I even have gone as far as getting an axe and destroying his stuff. An axe does better job than just bare hands. Jeez!
I , personally, feel relieved after the fact. The last straw that broke the camel's back is typically drawn by the other party, so after the yo-yo, i still insist on getting my apology. No love is lost really, its just a temper tantrum and a very hurt pride. The pride needs to be restored by a move from them trying to patch things.

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Orange, I'm asking this out of curiosity, not malice, so please don't take it the wrong way what's the objective during the temper tantrum? You mentioned hurt pride is the cause. That makes sense. What does your mars Saturn side need from the other party? Complete assumption of blame and and admission of guilt?

What pacifies you during an outburst?

posted March 25, 2014 11:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nezumi:
How do you feel when someone's personal planet triggers this aspect in your chart?

How do those relationships (of any kind) play out in your experience?

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This was my experience...

Him - Mars in Aries square Saturn in Capricorn.

Me - Mars in Capricorn conjunct his Saturn (and square his Mars)

How he felt: really scared.. and out of control, completely paranoid that I would hurt him (?)

How he reacted: by being a complete jerk for no reason whatsoever.. literally out of the thin blue sky... He was very feisty and aggravated.

How I reacted: first I was understanding and tried to be friendly and get more *real* communication happening between us (with some, but not enough, success). Then I got tired of that.

So - I blocked him everywhere and pretended he dropped dead.

posted March 25, 2014 11:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
Saggy,

My Mars is in Leo, Saturn is in Taurus, so every single outbursts in my case is caused by a hurt pride/disrespect. Nothing can anger me most than being stepped on my toes after multiple times explaining to them not to do that particular thing, because its hurtful to me. When they repeat doing the same stuff regardless of my initial request, i just go off. Its really disrespectful to me that they know they hurt me the first time, and they still do it regardless. The outburst is to make my point across - dont do this again!

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posted March 25, 2014 11:54 PM            

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Originally posted by sag_stellium:
Thanks Orange! I have a pretty big pride and mars pluto conjunct. You express your anger physically while I shoot my daggers at their emotional core. I can relate to the basis of your issue.

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Mars/Pluto is very physical as well!

posted March 25, 2014 11:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:

How he felt: really scared.. and out of control, completely paranoid that I would hurt him (?)

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I've seen this too. It seems like they're (wrongfully) externalizing their fear. What they think they could do, they think you'd do.

quote:

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So - I blocked him everywhere and pretended he dropped dead.

The End.

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posted March 26, 2014 12:57 AM            

I never broke anything or hurt anyone physically. I generally walk away immediately if I feel in danger of not being able to restrain myself, it helps. I come back when I am calmer and sort things through. I don't know how I would react if I'd do something like that because even in the most extreme anger I am still in control of myself and I can't see myself doing that. Idk why I'm so mellow lol, I always think about the consequences even though I have all that fire, maybe because Sat rules my Asc and has a bigger foot on the break pedal? I fantasize about hurting people when I am mad but I would never actually do it for real, ever. I think the worst I ever done was to slap someone and that was 15-20 years ago. I think I even apologized for it some time after.

posted March 26, 2014 05:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
A very tight Mars/Saturn square here

His Sun triggers it and makes it a tight T-square.

Volcanic outbursts when triggered, with absolutely no regard of the consequences. We just dont care about the aftermath, the destructive force is that strong.
Before the actual physical outbursts, there would be verbal warnings issued to the irritator, multiple times. You probably were given a verbal notice to cease the source of irritation. Which you ignored. And there it goes... furniture shred to pieces and cutting offensive words. When i finished with one of my outbursts, even thou- rare outbursts, there was no furniture left in the bedroom except for the bed where he was sitting silently - everything was broken to pieces and all doors were down on the floor. I even have gone as far as getting an axe and destroying his stuff. An axe does better job than just bare hands. Jeez!
I , personally, feel relieved after the fact. The last straw that broke the camel's back is typically drawn by the other party, so after the yo-yo, i still insist on getting my apology. No love is lost really, its just a temper tantrum and a very hurt pride. The pride needs to be restored by a move from them trying to patch things. I dont apologize.

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THIS. ^^^^ all of this...

My now ex has a Libra moon tightly sextile Uranus, so he cannot BRING HIMSELF to do something if he doesn't feel like it, it makes him quite reckless and emotionally rebellious if he feels like being pressure into "right thing to do".

The destructive force is very, very strong, and the inability to apologize is very, sadly real.

That is a tough T-square, with his very identity or even presence sometimes triggering this wave of blocked and repressed Mars inside of you... In our case with my Mercury, i could definitely tell my ways of communication would set him off, but my Sun-Pluto tightly sextiled his Venus so he really loved me while wishing I was mute all the time. :/

He was Leo too so pride was a huge factor. It has been difficult this year always being the one to initiate repair. The power dynamics this aspect enforces are so so tricky as well. We would often brush his unacceptable outbursts under the rug, which I would not recommend for any healthy relationship to make it to the long-run.

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
This was my experience...

Him - Mars in Aries square Saturn in Capricorn.

Me - Mars in Capricorn conjunct his Saturn (and square his Mars)

How he felt: really scared.. and out of control, completely paranoid that I would hurt him (?)

How he reacted: by being a complete jerk for no reason whatsoever.. literally out of the thin blue sky... He was very feisty and aggravated.

How I reacted: first I was understanding and tried to be friendly and get more *real* communication happening between us (with some, but not enough, success). Then I got tired of that.

The End.

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The projection with this aspect I've found is HUGE. Of course there are always other mitigating aspects, but I always noticed that what he feared most about himself he would project heavily onto me. "I'm afraid you're going to kill me." "I'm afraid you're going to damage my stuff." "I'm recording this because I'm afraid you will have an outburst." The paranoia was heavy and completely unjustified yet used to justify awful actions.

...On another note, I'm not sure where the women on this thread stand, but I noticed with this guy that gender roles and expectations seemed to be really strict and archaic. Like, he genuinely expected women to be and behave as the weaker sex. Yesterday when we spoke in the aftermath of everything, he told me I should "obey him sometimes" because that is letting him "be the man" and that I should "get off my feminist thing and accept what my gender is supposed to do."

posted March 26, 2014 04:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sag_stellium:
I like your writing style Odette you made me laugh.

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