posted April 17, 2014 08:16 AM            

"IMO, squares, semisquares, sesquisquares in natals and relationship charts point to action, practical, tangible activity and events. They are tension because they stimulate us to act, and they are tension because they bring events. Probably because the universe throws events at us in the points where we need to act, where we are or should be most active. So the 4th harmonics is the eventful and concretization part of our natal and, the same, for relationship charts."

This brings up again a subject for me, I am always coming back to think about and am quite uncertain. 8th harmonic aspects, semisquares and sesisquare.

One part of me is saying: These are minor aspects. Forget about them!

The other voice is saying: "They may be minor, but they are dynamic aspects, don`t underestimate them."

So my dilemma (how fitting for 4th and 8th harmonic, right? )is: do I OVERestimate them or do I UNDERestimate them?

As minor aspects their results should be more subtle than the major ones.
As dynamic aspects they should be influential especially in terms of manifestation of events.

I do - tentatively- think that they can probably be surprisingly strong, when they align in an 8th - 4th harmonic pattern at tight orbs (I am using 1°30 for these) and resulting in midpoint pictures.
Such as if you have a square at base and another planet makes a semisquare or sesisquare to both planets (the latter is callded "Fist of God" or "Thor`s Hammer", the one with the semisquare doesn`t have a name I think).

Now, of course I have a specific, selfish, personal reason for thinking about this yet again.

In Mr Sag`s chart his Venus is pretty much unaspected by my planets (and I REFUSE to take the 5-6 degree square to my Uranus seriously).

There are some minor things going on - well, I call them minor as of now, becuase I am still in research mode. Just as his Venus being on the antiscion of my Mars (1°05), or his Venus being almost precisely semisextile my Sun (0°01).

However of the "non-(major)-aspects" this pattern here stands out to me, and makes me want to discuss it.

natally he has a Venus-JUNO-opposition at 1°44; Interestingly he also has a Venus-Mars-sesisquare at 0°10, and a Venus-Jupiter-sesisquare at 0°45; so he consequently has Mars semisquare JUNO at 1°33; and Jupiter semisquare JUNO at 2°29. the Jupiter-Juno-aspect is too wide to consider it usually, however since Jupiter is conjunct Mars, and Jupiter as well as Juno aspect all the other participants in this 8th harmonic tango, it would feel wrong to cut it off.

posted April 17, 2014 08:26 AM            

I have Neptune conjunct NN at 0°12;
Neptune square Jupiter at 1°16;
NN square Jupiter at 1°03

[/URL]

posted April 17, 2014 08:39 AM            

In the first post I forgot his Mercury, which is roughly attached to this by:

square his Mars 1°42
square his Jupiter 0°46
semisquare his Venus 1°32
sesi to Juno is out of orb (3.36)

[/URL]

And just like that, it becomes a very symmetrical pattern, with the symmetrical-line going through about 25 Aries-Libra.

his Venus/JUNO-mp: 26°47 Libra
his MErcury/Jupiter-mp 24°26 Libra
his Mercury/Mars-mp 25°14 Libra

(the very centre of these is: 25°36 Libra

Since I am having only having this double square there, the symmetry-line would be made up of the Jupiter/NN-mp and Jupiter/Neptune-mp.

Jupiter/NN-mp: 25°41 Capricorn
Jupiter/Neptune-mp: 25°34 Cap

posted April 17, 2014 08:51 AM            

his Mercury conjunct my Neptune 0°33
his Mercury conjunct my NN 0°46

his Mars opposite my Jupiter: 0°06
his Jupiter opposite my Jupiter: 1°03

his Mercury square my Jupiter: 1°49
his Mars square my Neptune: 1°09
his Mars square my NN: 0°56
his Jupiter square my Neptune: 0°12
his Jupiter square my NN: 0°00

his Venus semisquare my Jupiter: 0°17
his Venus semisquare my Neptune:0°58
his Venus semisquare my NN: 0°45

his Juno is pretty much out of orb, but I mention it nevertheless.

his JUNO sesisquare my Jupiter 1°26
his JUNO sesisquare my Neptune 2°44
his JUNO sesisquare my NN: 2°30

posted April 17, 2014 09:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[/URL]

It is asymmetrical, hence does not align with midpoint patterns.

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Thanks for quoting me, Ceri You know what I think about these harmonics, and I love them, let's wait and see other opinions.

posted April 17, 2014 09:04 AM            

In this instance there are several symmetry lines, most of all the oppositions. Hard to see I know.
We actually only lack two planets on the 25 Libra-Aries-axis to make that a perfect octagon.

However as I started this post with his Venus; so not only his his Venus semisquare my Jupiter, Neptune, and NN, but falls onto my Jupier/Neptune and Jupiter/NN-midpoint.

It incidentally also falls onto my Moon/Venus-midpoint and Juno is on the far, but the reason for THAT happening is a 9th harmonic pattern, not an 8th harmonic one.

Anyway, so, how do I weigh this now?
Is his Venus unaspected by my chart, because it has no major aspects?
Or is it, because of the rather complex aspctual pattern?
How subtle are these aspects?

I am pretty sure they are not as loud as the square and the opposition, but are they mute?

Interestingly I have read in several books now to check for the 4th harmonic chart (semisquares and sesisquraes will appear as oppositions), to see what events really manifest, including in relationship charts.

posted April 17, 2014 09:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Nevertheless, folding our charts onto each other, several 4th and 8th harmonic aspects (of the already mentioned planets and asteroids) pop up.

In the first post I forgot his Mercury, which is roughly attached to this by:

square his Mars 1°42
square his Jupiter 0°46
semisquare his Venus 1°32
sesi to Juno is out of orb (3.36)

[/URL]

And just like that, it becomes a very symmetrical pattern, with the symmetrical-line going through about 25 Aries-Libra.

his Venus/JUNO-mp: 26°47 Libra
his MErcury/Jupiter-mp 24°26 Libra
his Mercury/Mars-mp 25°14 Libra

(the very centre of these is: 25°36 Libra

Since I am having only having this double square there, the symmetry-line would be made up of the Jupiter/NN-mp and Jupiter/Neptune-mp.

Jupiter/NN-mp: 25°41 Capricorn
Jupiter/Neptune-mp: 25°34 Cap

So the core centre of it would be: 25°37 Cap

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posted April 17, 2014 09:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
When there is a closed symmetrical pattern, I always look for the median: in this case, it is Pluto, Pluto is a midpoint too. Pluto can become the release.

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Yes, though I would have liked it to be more exact, but is probably suffices.
It is just out of orb.

Interestingly though in our composite chart Mars is at 23 Libra.

And though not in tropical, I still find it interesting, that

my Draco Venus: 25°57 Aries
his Draco Saturn: 25°19 Aries
his Draco DESC: 23°39 Aries
his Draco vertex: 26.55 Aries

As a matter of fact, there is even more to it in the Draco chart.

my Draco MC; 24°48 Capricorn
my Draco Pluto: 2°55 Capricorn

his Draco Sun: 25°34 Cancer
his Draco Moon: 27°15 Cancer
his Draco MC: 26°41 Cancer

And there the circle closes, interesting, I never noticed but in the Draconic our 5th/11th house natal complex comes together.

We both hae the ruler of 5th house squaring the ruler of 11th house, with the 6th house ruler being part of it as well.

For him that relates to his Sun/Moon-Saturn-square, as Sun rules his 6th, Moon his 5th and Saturn his 11th.
For me it relates to the Venus-Pluto-square, with Venus ruling 5th and 6th (and 10th) and Pluto ruling 11th (and 12th).

Interestingly in both cases the MC is pulled int, too, as my my 11th house ruler conjuncts my MC (and the 5th and 6th ruler squares it, and rule MC as well).

For him the 5th and 6th house ruler conjunct MC and the 11th house ruler squares it. Interesting. SEems like he is having it just from a complementary, polar perspective.

For him the 11th house ruler falls into 7th house, and the 5th and 6th house ruler into 10th.

for me the 11th house ruler falls into 10th house and the 5th and 6th house ruler in 1st.

Almost looks like a spinning wheel, spinning around the 10th/ MC in the middle. lol

posted April 17, 2014 09:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[/URL]

In this instance there are several symmetry lines, most of all the oppositions. Hard to see I know.
We actually only lack two planets on the 25 Libra-Aries-axis to make that a perfect octagon.

However as I started this post with his Venus; so not only his his Venus semisquare my Jupiter, Neptune, and NN, but falls onto my Jupier/Neptune and Jupiter/NN-midpoint.

It incidentally also falls onto my Moon/Venus-midpoint and Juno is on the far, but the reason for THAT happening is a 9th harmonic pattern, not an 8th harmonic one.

Anyway, so, how do I weigh this now?
Is his Venus unaspected by my chart, because it has no major aspects?
Or is it, because of the rather complex aspctual pattern?
How subtle are these aspects?

I am pretty sure they are not as loud as the square and the opposition, but are they mute?

Interestingly I have read in several books now to check for the 4th harmonic chart (semisquares and sesisquraes will appear as oppositions), to see what events really manifest, including in relationship charts.

---

posted April 17, 2014 10:09 AM            

Thor's Hammer is described everywhere as being a very powerful pattern, just like the name suggests, exemplified by the lives of the bearers (ex. Christoper Reeve), so I guess 4th and 8th harmonics are indeed very active in a chart.

A lovely article here:
http://www.astr ologysociety.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=720:thors-hammer-a-gift-of-the-god0s-only-for-the-brave&catid=108&Itemid=100012

I think the connection between God's Fist (Thor's Hammer) and Superman as a symbol is not a coincidence

posted April 17, 2014 01:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
It is interesting that Aries/Libra is his interception. His Pluto is a "wild card", so to speak.

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Yes, seems significant, too. ruler of 8th in intercepted 7th house, squaring the intercepted ruler of 7, Venus.

posted April 17, 2014 02:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
What about the 8th harmonics for those Persona charts on the other thread? How would they look?(the ones forming the eight pointed star)

Inspired by your work , I've just discovered a Fixed Cross of change in my NN Persona transposed in the 4th harmonics: Sun/Uranus/Pluto/Lilith. Lilith is a major asteroid for me, in my 1st house, exactly opp my Moon.

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Sun-Uranus-Pluto-Lilith sounds super intense and energetic, but more so in an inwardly intense way.

as for the 8th harmonic of our First meeting charts NN Persona, it would not yield the convincing results, as the squares are not perfect in orb, and the orbs would get 8 times wider in 8th harmonic. Maybe that is why Hamblin and also Bolton suggest checking the 4th harmonic rather for "two-ness", and Bolton especially mentions it as extremely significant and illuminating in terms of first meeting charts, which to him is THE relationship chart.
8th harmonic aspects would appear as oppositions, and the spread would not be THAT far as in higher harmonics.

After all, usingpa 12 degre orb for conjunctions in 4th harmonic chart, will pick up conj, opp and squares of only 3 degrees, everything over 3 degree in the natal will get insanely wideorbed in harmonic chart. semisquares7 sesisquares would be considered as oppositionsw ithin 6 degrees (which is the same as an 1°30 orb for these in natal - sounds reasonable to me).

So the fourth harmonic chart would look like this.

posted April 17, 2014 02:10 PM            

However, the semisquare would be more implosive, the sesisquare more explosive maybe.
I could imagine that sesisquares are more inclined to be externalized or projected.

In my own chart I have a Thor`s Hammer with Chiron in Aries in 4th square Vertex-EROS in Cancer in 8th, and both sesisquare Mars in Sag in 12th on the AC (ruling the 4th).

posted April 17, 2014 02:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Sun-Uranus-Pluto-Lilith sounds super intense and energetic, but more so in an inwardly intense way.

as for the 8th harmonic of our First meeting charts NN Persona, it would not yield the convincing results, as the squares are not perfect in orb, and the orbs would get 8 times wider in 8th harmonic. Maybe that is why Hamblin and also Bolton suggest checking the 4th harmonic rather for "two-ness", and Bolton especially mentions it as extremely significant and illuminating in terms of first meeting charts, which to him is THE relationship chart.
8th harmonic aspects would appear as oppositions, and the spread would not be THAT far as in higher harmonics.

After all, usingpa 12 degre orb for conjunctions in 4th harmonic chart, will pick up conj, opp and squares of only 3 degrees, everything over 3 degree in the natal will get insanely wideorbed in harmonic chart. semisquares7 sesisquares would be considered as oppositionsw ithin 6 degrees (which is the same as an 1°30 orb for these in natal - sounds reasonable to me).

So the fourth harmonic chart would look like this.

[/URL]

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posted April 17, 2014 02:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
English please

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posted April 17, 2014 02:58 PM            

Oh, I get a sense of déjà-vu when I write this, it's meant to be posted then :d.

posted April 17, 2014 03:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
I do think minor aspects have a way of crept up on us when we're least expecting. The chart has many layers, the minor aspects are like a constant vibrating which is working undercover behind the major aspects. And if they figure into some configuration, I mean connecting to each other to form a close pattern, then it'd be like a chain of stimulation, "domino effect".

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posted April 17, 2014 03:22 PM            

Just realized my Composite have an exact Thor's Hammer with Jupiter, North Node, Neptune in 11th is at the apex. The release point in exact opposition to Neptune is 5th Mars. And guess what, composite Neptune conjunct my Saturn exact, composite Mars conjunct his Moon exact. I know we don't normally consider North Node to be part of a configuration, but what the heck???

EDIT: come to think of it, the composite North Node is 3 degrees from his Chiron which, if you count it, is the apex of another tight Yod in his chart that has Sun sextile Saturn exact. Composite North Node is the milieu of his Chiron and my ASC. Composite Jupiter conjunct his IC exact. I can only laugh, what could I say? Everytime we're together, we got pounded on the head like crazy .