posted July 17, 2014 06:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Thanks for your reply and sharing your story. I am sorry to hear you had such severe childhood abuse. I empathize with you. I had a very difficult, bizarre childhood and adolescence and I'm surprised that I'm still alive too. I guess it just goes to show that we sometimes have more inner strength than we realize.

I have Moon-Chiron so I know the pain of having Chiron right on a personal planet. Moon conjunct Chiron gave me issues with all the women in my family. I am sorry to hear about your violent father...it pains me to know he hurt you.

I have Jupiter con. Venus in Scorpio, Mercury in Scorpio. My Pluto sits in the 12th which is why I think I am so often hurt by lovers...you have Venus in Pisces which is very similar to H12 Venus. I think this is both a beautiful and painful Venus.

Are you frequently hurt by lovers? Lovers have a special, unique way of destroying me...I tend to attract addicts, unavailable people, or people who destroy me emotionally. I've been borderline raped/assaulted due to dissociation during sex... It's related to my Venus being disposited in the 12th, sextile Neptune, I think. Maybe you can relate because of the Neptune square.

---

I have had relationships from hell. Repeating what happened in my childhood. The men were extremely abusive towards me. Not supportive, highly unrealistic, wanted to rush things. I was engaged around three or four times and refused to walk down the aisle. I used to settle for the first guy to come along. Problems were swept under the carpet and I took in all the nasty abuse. The majority of the time, I would leave.

I also had manor issues with the biological mother who gave birth to me. She DEMANDED and insisted she was my parents and would not let me go, yet underneath she deeply rejected and resented being a mother and having to take care of a child. I would try and flee to my grandparents, only to have struggles to keep myself safe.

posted July 17, 2014 06:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sagical:
I have had relationships from hell. Repeating what happened in my childhood. The men were extremely abusive towards me. Not supportive, highly unrealistic, wanted to rush things. I was engaged around three or four times and refused to walk down the aisle. I used to settle for the first guy to come along. Problems were swept under the carpet and I took in all the nasty abuse. The majority of the time, I would leave.

I also had manor issues with the biological mother who gave birth to me. She DEMANDED and insisted she was my parents and would not let me go, yet underneath she deeply rejected and resented being a mother and having to take care of a child. I would try and flee to my grandparents, only to have struggles to keep myself safe.

The good news is that the toxic people are out of my life and I have worked through things and processed the illusions....... reality hit and now I'm on my path.

---

I am so sorry to hear this. My heart is with you. I also had some relationships that paralleled how my parents treated me. Most of the guys were alcoholics or flakes. I am glad you left those relationships before they consumed you. That takes a lot of courage and you should be proud of yourself for doing that.

It deeply pains me to hear of your mother as well...I had a similar circumstance with my parents. My dad, in particular. He would not let another relative adopt me because he was selfish and didn't want to let me go, yet resented being my parent. I feel my mom was like this at times. She was always selfish with keeping me all to herself despite being too young to really take care of me.

posted July 17, 2014 10:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Do you have a tumblr

---

Yes, I do: http://pluto-and-roses.tumblr.com/

posted July 19, 2014 12:06 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I am so sorry to hear this. My heart is with you. I also had some relationships that paralleled how my parents treated me. Most of the guys were alcoholics or flakes. I am glad you left those relationships before they consumed you. That takes a lot of courage and you should be proud of yourself for doing that.

It deeply pains me to hear of your mother as well...I had a similar circumstance with my parents. My dad, in particular. He would not let another relative adopt me because he was selfish and didn't want to let me go, yet resented being my parent. I feel my mom was like this at times. She was always selfish with keeping me all to herself despite being too young to really take care of me.

I see many parallels between us. I know where you are coming from and I am glad you are rid of the toxic people in your life. I'm trying to learn how to do that too. If you ever need to talk, I'm here to listen.

---

Thank you

posted July 20, 2014 04:32 PM            

The only thing to get me under control was to quit caffeine. People will tell you to quit drugs & alcohol, but we are never told to give up our sodas, tea or coffee.

I have no idea what you consume, but it worked for me. I have been caffeine free for eight solid months and I have not had any manic episodes and only one very short episode of depression (like 2-3 days short).

I used to have manic episodes for 4-5 days straight (with everything that comes with that - we don't need to get detailed in a public forum) and then swing into a crippling depression for weeks on end. Then it would start all over.

But like I said, just because it worked for me doesn't mean that it's your issue or that it even would work for you. I just thought I'd put the idea out there.

anyway, the worst part about having BPD is that it's debilitating and people can't see that you are sick, so they have no empathy for you.

posted July 20, 2014 04:40 PM            

quote:

---

I know where you are coming from and I am glad you are rid of the toxic people in your life. I'm trying to learn how to do that too.

---

This helped me a lot too. I have shed many people in the last 2 years. You truly have to surround yourself with drama free people, ESPECIALLY romantic interests.

And honestly, it will feel boring at first because we are so used to our lives being wrapped up in other people's garbage. But then it will feel peaceful and you will have this feeling of, "so THIS is what normal feels like."

I learned, after many... MANY years of trying... that I can't fix anyone and I can't help anyone through their issues to make them a better partner to me. No one is going to change for me and no, the relationship is not better if we are both damaged and understand each other.

There was an internet meme going around that said something like, "Everyone has baggage. The key is to find someone strong enough to help you unpack"... something like that.

And that doesn't mean to find stable / normal people to save you. But I do find that as I surround myself more and more with people that are calm, steady, practical, and "normal" that I feel less unstable.

posted July 21, 2014 05:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Just curious about what placements could lead to this... I've always had so many issues with hating myself - I never can even really hate other people, I just become deeply angry at them. But, I never fail in succeeding to hate myself and beat myself up for all that I am and I am not.

Example: One parent neglected me. I intensely become angry at him, but I hate myself and feel like I don't deserve what I do have. I beat myself up for everything I do wrong. I never appreciate who I am; I make fun of myself; I'm so hard on myself it hurts.

Is this a Pisces/Neptune issue [funneling the hate into yourself vs. other people]? Chiron? Pluto, even? I really don't know.Thanks for opinions from those who encounter this frustrating character trait.

---

Self-loathing finds more commonality to modern western living than astrological 'causes.' However, within that rejection of self, because that is what it is, there is evidence that you feel you do not measure up. This is particularly Saturn-related. That is also very much parental/karma-related.

You can rearrange your chart all you want with various asteroids or convoluted explanations, but you cannot escape the Saturnine realities of the karma into which you were born and the challenges that it brings in the context of parental relationships and what you do with that.

You can both learn from it (as in 'what I will not do...') and forgive the person and let it go. That is difficult for the Scorpio type.

The solution is not found in astrology. The solution is to decide to accept yourself as you are. It is the ego that drives us to 'become somebody' to become acceptable. Spirit accepts you now as you are and so can you.

------------------
Expert rectification, professional astrology consults

posted July 21, 2014 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Self-loathing finds more commonality to modern western living than astrological 'causes.' However, within that rejection of self, because that is what it is, there is evidence that you feel you do not measure up. This is particularly Saturn-related. That is also very much parental/karma-related.

You can rearrange your chart all you want with various asteroids or convoluted explanations, but you cannot escape the Saturnine realities of the karma into which you were born and the challenges that it brings in the context of parental relationships and what you do with that.

You can both learn from it (as in 'what I will not do...') and forgive the person and let it go. That is difficult for the Scorpio type.

The solution is not found in astrology. The solution is to decide to accept yourself as you are. It is the ego that drives us to 'become somebody' to become acceptable. Spirit accepts you now as you are and so can you.

---

I agree with some of what you said here because the constant bombardment of media isn't good for self-esteem. I have 3H Saturn, Saturn sq. ASC and Chiron con. Moon sq. ASC. I feel these placements lead me to 'hate' who I am especially on the outside and constantly I strive for perfection. My Moon is in Virgo, even more difficult. So it seems I was always destined to be self-critical.

posted July 21, 2014 05:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Geeky:
This helped me a lot too. I have shed many people in the last 2 years. You truly have to surround yourself with drama free people, ESPECIALLY romantic interests.

And honestly, it will feel boring at first because we are so used to our lives being wrapped up in other people's garbage. But then it will feel peaceful and you will have this feeling of, "so THIS is what normal feels like."

I learned, after many... MANY years of trying... that I can't fix anyone and I can't help anyone through their issues to make them a better partner to me. No one is going to change for me and no, the relationship is not better if we are both damaged and understand each other.

There was an internet meme going around that said something like, "Everyone has baggage. The key is to find someone strong enough to help you unpack"... something like that.

And that doesn't mean to find stable / normal people to save you. But I do find that as I surround myself more and more with people that are calm, steady, practical, and "normal" that I feel less unstable.

The instability was a BIG trigger for me too.

---

I really like what you've said here. I want nothing more right now than to be normal and see what being 'normal' feels like. The first step is moving away from my mother, who is also BPD and makes me her confidante and involved with her drama. I need to try to change my whole mindset and avoid even getting slightly involved or sympathetic toward people with severe drama in the future. I'm learning to remain compassionate but shed my 'rescuer/shrink' role when it's highly inappropriate. The perks of Moon-Neptune... haha.

posted July 21, 2014 05:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ash20:
I have sun square pluto, sun conjunct saturn & moon in the 2nd house and I've been dealing with self hatred for most of my life.

---

posted July 21, 2014 05:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sagical:
Thank you

It is a lot of work to undo all the damage done in childhood. Some say a lifetime to fix. I still have a bit to go in regards to ridding the self hate. It gets worse when i get invalidated or am met with dysfunctional behaviors by others.

---

posted July 21, 2014 06:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
You're welcome. I am considering going to forgiveness therapy for issues with my childhood. I really can't deal with the pain I've been harboring, especially toward my dad. Being invalidated also hurts me deeply. I'm trying to be more selective about my friendship circle and who I let into my life for this reason. I just can't deal with unstable, cruel people anymore and I have a tendency to attract bad influences into my life.

---

Oh totally find people who validate you. I think being ignored even in the smallest ways makes bpd so much worse.

posted July 21, 2014 08:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Oh totally find people who validate you. I think being ignored even in the smallest ways makes bpd so much worse.

I read an article how borderline and narcissistic people tend to gravitate towards eachother. Not sure what made me think of this and I'm not sure if there's like clinical evidence for it. I think I found it googling best match for borderline people haha or something,

---

Wow... that actually makes complete sense in most cases for both illnesses. From what I've read, BP's are usually willing to empathize and go to the ends of the earth to keep a partner and make a him/her happy, and a NP wants intense devotion and worship from a love interest. Many BP's seem to gravitate toward a distant partner since most grew up with a distant family environment/parent so it just feels normal. I can see an NP being falsely validating and then extremely distant and the BP scrambling to get the NP back, thus fueling the NP's ego and adding to the vicious cycle.