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Author Topic:   Placements for self-loathing
sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 06:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just curious about what placements could lead to this... I've always had so many issues with hating myself - I never can even really hate other people, I just become deeply angry at them. But, I never fail in succeeding to hate myself and beat myself up for all that I am and I am not.

Example: One parent neglected me. I intensely become angry at him, but I hate myself and feel like I don't deserve what I do have. I beat myself up for everything I do wrong. I never appreciate who I am; I make fun of myself; I'm so hard on myself it hurts.

Is this a Pisces/Neptune issue [funneling the hate into yourself vs. other people]? Chiron? Pluto, even? I really don't know.Thanks for opinions from those who encounter this frustrating character trait.

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Moon is Lunatic
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posted July 17, 2014 06:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moon is Lunatic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm very sorry to hear that

I just read about that you cut yourself.

I've been there too, and even though I did seek help, it didn't help. They just gave me useless pills that made my situation worser. When it went worser they just wanted to give more pills. :/ I had to heal myself alone after struggling for many years.

We had both Pluto in 12th and Mars in 8th, right? Maybe that has something to do with it? *shrugs*

I wish you all the best and luck.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 06:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moon is Lunatic:
I'm very sorry to hear that

I just read about that you cut yourself.

I've been there too, and even though I did seek help, it didn't help. They just gave me useless pills that made my situation worser. When it went worser they just wanted to give more pills. :/ I had to heal myself alone after struggling for many years.

We had both Pluto in 12th and Mars in 8th, right? Maybe that has something to do with it? *shrugs*

I wish you all the best and luck.


Thanks for your kind reply. I'm not usually so open about bad things that happen to me, like that... but I just feel really alone and dejected right now. Of course, it's related to a 'romantic' issue. I have BPD and I perceived someone I liked rejected me last night, and it sent me into a coma of depression.

I empathize with you about the ineffectiveness of therapy and psychiatry. I feel like I know myself better than therapists know me. I never feel helped. Medication is a nightmare for me. I sometimes wonder if I am mildly cyclothymic along with BPD. I hate anti-depressants' effect on me. Makes me gain weight too.

I feel like maybe the inability to hate others as strong as I hate myself is Mars-Neptune. But I do not know for sure...you're right, it could be Pluto in the 12th.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SS

Please, see if you have Moon conj Dejanira or Child conj this. Come back and tell me and tell me the orbs. I am on your side, my Friend and I understand

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anonymidarkness
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posted July 17, 2014 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I’d look at Chiron/Saturn. With Pluto, I think it will keep changing polarities, self-love and self-hate. Do you have Moon/Pluto ?

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Just curious about what placements could lead to this... I've always had so many issues with hating myself - I never can even really hate other people, I just become deeply angry at them. But, I never fail in succeeding to hate myself and beat myself up for all that I am and I am not.

Example: One parent neglected me. I intensely become angry at him, but I hate myself and feel like I don't deserve what I do have. I beat myself up for everything I do wrong. I never appreciate who I am; I make fun of myself; I'm so hard on myself it hurts.

Is this a Pisces/Neptune issue [funneling the hate into yourself vs. other people]? Chiron? Pluto, even? I really don't know.Thanks for opinions from those who encounter this frustrating character trait.


Abuse and then guilt from it does this

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http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
SS

Please, see if you have Moon conj Dejanira or Child conj this. Come back and tell me and tell me the orbs. I am on your side, my Friend and I understand


It's good to talk to you again, Ami. I had a crazy year and didn't have time to come to the forums. Thanks for your kindness.

I checked my chart for the placements you suggested and saw that I have Dejanira conjunct Uranus, opposite Mars in Cancer H8. I have Child [asteroid] conjunct Neptune, trine Moon-Chiron. Neptune rules my IC.

I have Nessus exactly conjunct my Venus and North Node. God, what a terrible placement... Could that be it? I don't know how I missed that.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I’d look at Chiron/Saturn. With Pluto, I think it will keep changing polarities, self-love and self-hate. Do you have Moon/Pluto ?

I do not have Moon-Pluto, which surprises even me. I seem like a prime candidate for it, right? However, the dispositor of my Moon is in Scorpio...perhaps this is similar, just not as strong.

I don't have Chiron-Saturn. I have Chiron-Moon, conjunct by 01 degree orb. I'm not sure if this is what causes my self-loathing...I thought it just represented my difficult childhood and feeling like I had to take care of my mom. But who knows.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi SS


So glad you are back

tell me the orbs for each of these things you wrote in your post to me

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Hi SS

So glad you are back

tell me the orbs for each of these things you wrote in your post to me


Thanks Ami. Good to be back. For Nessus, the orb is 0 degrees. For Dejanira, the orb is between 3-4. For child, the orb is 4. Thanks for the insights.

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Faith
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posted July 17, 2014 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I missed you, too, SS.

I think it's your Virgo moon conjunct Chiron, plus the Scorpio NN holds you to super high expectations of yourself. Sorry if you don't want me bringing up your chart, I just remember it. I'll delete that if you like.

I have a Scorpio NN, Pluto square sun...I am harder on myself than anyone else on this planet. Self-destructive in more subtle ways, like sabotaging my own goals, holding to a careful diet and then binging..stuff like that.

I was just saying to a friend this morning, and will repeat, that Eckhart Tolle's books and YouTube videos, based mostly on Buddhist philosophy, have helped me more than anything.

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anonymidarkness
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posted July 17, 2014 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I do not have Moon-Pluto, which surprises even me. I seem like a prime candidate for it, right? However, the dispositor of my Moon is in Scorpio...perhaps this is similar, just not as strong.

I don't have Chiron-Saturn. I have Chiron-Moon, conjunct by 01 degree orb. I'm not sure if this is what causes my self-loathing...I thought it just represented my difficult childhood and feeling like I had to take care of my mom. But who knows.


Yeah, it could be similar. I don’t know much about Moon/Chiron. It could cause a lot of pain. Maybe you’d have to accept that pain as part of your nature.

Is your Mars afflicted ?

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
I missed you, too, SS.

I think it's your Virgo moon conjunct Chiron, plus the Scorpio NN holds you to super high expectations of yourself. Sorry if you don't want me bringing up your chart, I just remember it. I'll delete that if you like.

I have a Scorpio NN, Pluto square sun...I am harder on myself than anyone else on this planet. Self-destructive in more subtle ways, like sabotaging my own goals, holding to a careful diet and then binging..stuff like that.

I was just saying to a friend this morning, and will repeat, that Eckhart Tolle's books and YouTube videos, based mostly on Buddhist philosophy, have helped me more than anything.


Thanks Ami. I don't mind the chart being mentioned at all... I think that I am going to have to accept that I will have a lot of emotional issues in this life with Moon-Chiron. A selfless healing type who feels that I can't be healed... At least not by other people. Maybe that's what I have to see, that I have to heal myself vs. expecting other people to do it for me. It could relate to me hating myself since I feel like I'm inadequate to helping myself right now... Scorpio NN could play a part. I do have super high standards for myself. I am glad you can empathize. Thanks for the recommendations too.

It's funny, Ami... I feel like lovers are always the ones who drive me to the brink. My family makes me feel Chironic pain, but with lovers it's different. I feel so angry at them but always blame myself. I seem to pick the WORST people to start a relationship with - they are unavailable or mistreat me despite seeming so good to begin with. Honestly that's my biggest struggle with self-hate right now. I wear my heart on my sleeve and hate myself for it vs. hating their attitudes and how they are. It's so confusing.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[/b]I have Nessus exactly conjunct my Venus and North Node. God, what a terrible placement... Could that be it? I don't know how I missed that. [/b]

Venus is a receptive planet so you may find that love is tied to abuse. The NN placement amps it up nuclear because your purpose in life is how to learn about all this and make it part of your life purpose, for good. Your may end up as a voice for others who have been in the same situation, through no fault of their own, as is the case for you

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:


Venus is a receptive planet so you may find that love is tied to abuse. The NN placement amps it up nuclear because your purpose in life is how to learn about all this and make it part of your life purpose, for good. Your may end up as a voice for others who have been in the same situation, through no fault of their own, as is the case for you


Thank you for the compassionate words here, Ami. I feel somewhat cursed with this placement. I feel like all my romantic relationships have abusive themes. Not in a physical way, but an emotional way. It's funny, how you said the NN there will make me destined to help others with similar scenarios... I've worked with domestic violence victims for almost 2 years.

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Sagical
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posted July 17, 2014 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sagical     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Sun Conj Chiron and both are in a harsh T square with Uranus and Mars. I have Venus in Pisces square to Jupiter/Neptune Conj in Sag. I have both Saturn and Mercury in the 12th house - My Saturn squares my MC and North Node in Aquarius.

There was a great deal of intense self loathing and I'm surprised to see that I'm still living after the severe childhood trauma I went through.

The T square with Sun Chiron shows my bio father has being extremely violent and not accepting of his station in life at the time. Be was only 18.

I'm not sure what else to put or say, but after a long time in therapy I have healed a lot of things and worked through stuff.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Yeah, it could be similar. I don’t know much about Moon/Chiron. It could cause a lot of pain. Maybe you’d have to accept that pain as part of your nature.

Is your Mars afflicted ?


My Mars is afflicted, yes. It is conjunct my Vertex in the 8th in Cancer, opposite Uranus con. Neptune, trine Pluto. Mars squares the sadism asteroid Sado and my Mercury which also seems not too pleasant.

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sagical:
I have Sun Conj Chiron and both are in a harsh T square with Uranus and Mars. I have Venus in Pisces square to Jupiter/Neptune Conj in Sag. I have both Saturn and Mercury in the 12th house - My Saturn squares my MC and North Node in Aquarius.

There was a great deal of intense self loathing and I'm surprised to see that I'm still living after the severe childhood trauma I went through.

The T square with Sun Chiron shows my bio father has being extremely violent and not accepting of his station in life at the time. Be was only 18.

I'm not sure what else to put or say, but after a long time in therapy I have healed a lot of things and worked through stuff.


Thanks for your reply and sharing your story. I am sorry to hear you had such severe childhood abuse. I empathize with you. I had a very difficult, bizarre childhood and adolescence and I'm surprised that I'm still alive too. I guess it just goes to show that we sometimes have more inner strength than we realize.

I have Moon-Chiron so I know the pain of having Chiron right on a personal planet. Moon conjunct Chiron gave me issues with all the women in my family. I am sorry to hear about your violent father...it pains me to know he hurt you.

I have Jupiter con. Venus in Scorpio, Mercury in Scorpio. My Pluto sits in the 12th which is why I think I am so often hurt by lovers...you have Venus in Pisces which is very similar to H12 Venus. I think this is both a beautiful and painful Venus.

Are you frequently hurt by lovers? Lovers have a special, unique way of destroying me...I tend to attract addicts, unavailable people, or people who destroy me emotionally. I've been borderline raped/assaulted due to dissociation during sex... It's related to my Venus being disposited in the 12th, sextile Neptune, I think. Maybe you can relate because of the Neptune square.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep SS

We did not choose our charts. One thing Astrology can do is help take away some of the guilt that it is "our fault". I find that to be very uplifting and very empowering to people. That is one reason I love doing charts

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yep SS

We did not choose our charts. One thing Astrology can do is help take away some of the guilt that it is "our fault". I find that to be very uplifting and very empowering to people. That is one reason I love doing charts


That's a good point, Ami. I find astrology really therapeutic for that reason too. At least it provides some order to the chaos.

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bansheequeen
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posted July 17, 2014 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have BPD too. I don't know if astrology has anything to do with it. I feel like astrology lays out the groundwork for our personalities to develop, and things like BPD just **** it up on the way.

Antidepressants never worked on me either. I guess they did, but they weren't really the right fit for BPD. Because it's almost always something that makes me spiral into depression and the crazy **** I do are ways to help me feel better. Antipsychotics work the best, though I hate being on meds period. They really take the edge off. Like it mellows out that part of me that would do something rash or destructive. And they don't have as many side effects as an antidepressant. It's worth a shot.

Another thing I learned is the therapists can't help you if you arent 100% truthful with them. And I never could be. That's why I just don't waste my money anymore. Even though they aren't supposed to be judge mental, I just can't do it. Also. Find one that does CBT. It gives you the tools to help yourself.

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2014 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
banshee

Do you have the Moon conj Dejanira or Child conj. Dejanira?

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bansheequeen:
I have BPD too. I don't know if astrology has anything to do with it. I feel like astrology lays out the groundwork for our personalities to develop, and things like BPD just **** it up on the way.

Antidepressants never worked on me either. I guess they did, but they weren't really the right fit for BPD. Because it's almost always something that makes me spiral into depression and the crazy **** I do are ways to help me feel better. Antipsychotics work the best, though I hate being on meds period. They really take the edge off. Like it mellows out that part of me that would do something rash or destructive. And they don't have as many side effects as an antidepressant. It's worth a shot.

Another thing I learned is the therapists can't help you if you arent 100% truthful with them. And I never could be. That's why I just don't waste my money anymore. Even though they aren't supposed to be judge mental, I just can't do it. Also. Find one that does CBT. It gives you the tools to help yourself.


Thank you for sharing your story with me. I can see we have many things in common...it's a relief to meet someone else here with BPD. If you don't mind me asking, how long as it been since you were diagnosed? Have you tried DBT? The best I can do now is a DBT workbook and some online group therapy thing but it isn't helping much.

I hate being on medication too. It ruins me - I'd rather be like this than a fat zombie, to be quite blunt.

I am sorry you have felt judged by therapists too. I have major trust issues with therapists. I also can't show my vulnerability in front of anyone so if I talk about certain things I know I will cry...and that is not OK with me. It almost feels pointless to talk about it with them sometimes since I say all that, want to cry or do cry, feel humiliated, and then can never help me find coping tools and strategies that work. So basically, it's like telling your life story you wouldn't want anyone to know to a total stranger with nothing in return.

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bansheequeen
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posted July 17, 2014 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amianne: no but I do have dejanira trine moon.

Sweet scorpion: nope never tried DBT. It's been approx five years since alive been diagnosed. Of course it really only comes out full force when I'm in a relationship or I'm dating someone. Ugh. Yeah I hate meds I like being me, even if I suffer. And oh man me too I can't show my vulnerability. If a single tear falls out of my eye in front of a therapist I just feel so pathetic even though I know in my head that they are used to it, and trained to deal with it and see it all the time. And therapists are trained to just sit there and give no sympathy, esp to borderline people I think they are harder. I know they don't really care but also I feel like they'll judge me. So it's like. Ugh. No. Why bother. Just wanted to say I'm going through this stuff too :/

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sweet-scorpion
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posted July 17, 2014 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweet-scorpion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bansheequeen:

Sweet scorpion: nope never tried DBT. It's been approx five years since alive been diagnosed. Of course it really only comes out full force when I'm in a relationship or I'm dating someone. Ugh. Yeah I hate meds I like being me, even if I suffer. And oh man me too I can't show my vulnerability. If a single tear falls out of my eye in front of a therapist I just feel so pathetic even though I know in my head that they are used to it, and trained to deal with it and see it all the time. And therapists are trained to just sit there and give no sympathy, esp to borderline people I think they are harder. I know they don't really care but also I feel like they'll judge me. So it's like. Ugh. No. Why bother. Just wanted to say I'm going through this stuff too :/

I am glad you can relate to me. Let me know if you'd ever want to email outside of this site. You seem like a nice person and I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Like you, my worst BPD symptoms come out in relationships or when I have someone I am interested in, most definitely.

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