posted August 05, 2014 09:16 AM            

Is it because it's about something you value the most, hold dear? Is it because you know it's (partly) true and are trying really hard to improve it? Or is it because it's very far from the truth? Is it the characteristic you despise the most in others? Or is it something you very much admire?

Do you ever think about this? Are you aware of the negative traits attributed to you? Or are you in denial?

Some days ago my dear friend told me that she gets extremely upset when her brother calls her stupid, even though it's in the heat of the moment, an impulsive reflex, it hurts her feelings. For her it's an insult far worse than any other, it's not just a simple word being thrown around.

She is Sag, has Jupiter conjunct her ASC, her chart ruler is in Sag, the ruler of her second house is in Sag, so no wonder she values greatly knowledge and wisdom. Her Mercury is also conjunct Uranus, so her mind is very susceptible and lucid, so she being stupid couldn’t be further from the truth. She also has Moon conjunct Pluto, it’s easy for her to get right to the heart of the matter. Deep down she knows she’s intelligent, but can’t help her Capricorn Venus to be doubtful of the fact.

I am most hurt if a particular person says I’m lazy. It’s because I know I’m not the most productive person on earth, I have plenty of air which makes me look like I’m not doing nothing, or it’s just scattered (Gemini Mars), and it’s true I need to think everything over before in fact working. It’s a nonstop interplay between earth and air element which prevail in my chart. Besides, my Libra Sun is very touchy when someone calls it lazy, when it knows for a fact that’s only being so damn good at strategy. I value diligence very much (Venus-Saturn, South node in 6H, second house in Taurus, Venus in Virgo etc.) and although I have enough energy to accomplish a lot (Mars-Sun), I am constantly aware that I overthink and could do more. There are plenty of elements in my chart that are holding me back (Mars-Neptune, airy planets, etc. and there’s that Saturn in 12 house which knows it’s special.

posted August 05, 2014 12:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
What do you feel most vulnerable about? Which insult hurts you the most?

Is it because it's about something you value the most, hold dear? Is it because you know it's (partly) true and are trying really hard to improve it? Or is it because it's very far from the truth? Is it the characteristic you despise the most in others? Or is it something you very much admire?

Do you ever think about this? Are you aware of the negative traits attributed to you? Or are you in denial?

Some days ago my dear friend told me that she gets extremely upset when her brother calls her stupid, even though it's in the heat of the moment, an impulsive reflex, it hurts her feelings. For her it's an insult far worse than any other, it's not just a simple word being thrown around.

She is Sag, has Jupiter conjunct her ASC, her chart ruler is in Sag, the ruler of her second house is in Sag, so no wonder she values greatly knowledge and wisdom. Her Mercury is also conjunct Uranus, so her mind is very susceptible and lucid, so she being stupid couldn’t be further from the truth. She also has Moon conjunct Pluto, it’s easy for her to get right to the heart of the matter. Deep down she knows she’s intelligent, but can’t help her Capricorn Venus to be doubtful of the fact.

I am most hurt if a particular person says I’m lazy. It’s because I know I’m not the most productive person on earth, I have plenty of air which makes me look like I’m not doing nothing, or it’s just scattered (Gemini Mars), and it’s true I need to think everything over before in fact working. It’s a nonstop interplay between earth and air element which prevail in my chart. Besides, my Libra Sun is very touchy when someone calls it lazy, when it knows for a fact that’s only being so damn good at strategy. I value diligence very much (Venus-Saturn, South node in 6H, second house in Taurus, Venus in Virgo etc.) and although I have enough energy to accomplish a lot (Mars-Sun), I am constantly aware that I overthink and could do more. There are plenty of elements in my chart that are holding me back (Mars-Neptune, airy planets, etc. and there’s that Saturn in 12 house which knows it’s special.

How about you, your friends, partners, family...? Which placements are in your opinion responsible?

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I think a word, in and of itself, holds no charge unless there is emotive force behind it.

In my relationship we use words to argue, when we disagree. Something that we are both not used to(Moon in Cancer-Moon in Scorpio).

We are both drawn to the immediate impulse of sulking or withdrawing when hurt. We are learning the joys of communicating and through that, I've learned just how sensitive and loving my Scorpio Moon guy is. And how alike we really really, are.

But we DO NOT use words like "stupid", "loser","idiot", "useless" etc. Those are too emotionally charged and will fracture any relationship to a point of being irreparable.

So your friend is justified in being mad at her brother. What I would advise her to do, however, is to avoid getting into fights with her insensitive brother.

Clearly he has found a "reaction" button and will keep at it - because he knows how she'll respond.

A hurtful statement from someone you don't know is annoying and can prick you.

A hurtful statement from someone that you consider a "friend"/family cuts deeper- because they are "supposed" to be on your side and when they say stuff like that, you are made to feel that they are really not.

I don't think about insults deeply.I try to "pre pave" my interactions with others- as far as possible. By that, I mean that I choose my interactions, the feelings as well as the desired outcome.

i do intentionally avoid people with lose tongues and a plain disregard for people's feelings.in fact, I just zone those people out of my life.

Before I learned to do this, I used to interact with others and I would get hurt by so much.

posted August 05, 2014 12:55 PM            

I would have to say that I am most sensitive about family and home matters, deep down inside. My Moon conjuncts Chiron and I feel the placement strongly. Moon is in my 9th, Saturn is in my 3rd. I never found the emotional support I needed at home. I'm planning to travel all over to help others and find the support I need in life. If someone in my family ignores me or says something hurtful about my character, my dreams, it strikes me to the core like no one else ever could.

In terms of insults, I'm most sensitive about my appearance [Chiron-ASC] and someone challenging my goals and dreams. I get more angry than upset when someone challenges my dreams. I have my MC in exact sextile to Mars and Mercury, ruling my MC, squares Mars.

posted August 05, 2014 03:38 PM            

@Faith
You're welcome. These analyses are a pleasure to read and also a great source of knowledge  I think your fear of being isolated, alone, stems partly out of your 12H Saturn... Saturn being restrictive, fearsome and insecure, residing there, would emphasise that, despite the fact that it’s supposed to be our “destiny” – to lead a loner’s life or at least a bit secluded. Where is your NN? What do you think would make you dread loneliness – do you have a lot of “social” signs or emphasised southern hemisphere?
Ah well, sometimes one wishes he would never know the truth about people’s opinions... I used to be a lot more sensitive about opinions of people that didn’t really matter, it still hurts when I look back at the pain I had back then, now I’ve learned to be a bit more selective when it comes to the public acceptance of my persona. It something we all need to learn 
Gosh, we really are similar! oh tell me about it! Sometimes I feel, after a heated and long debate, like I’ve fought a battle, it’s so exhausting! It drains almost all the energy away, especially if you can’t find a way to win an argument or at least show people new ways of thinking, after that I’m paralyzed and at the same time stuck in my head, with all the twirling thoughts. You must know this frustrating feeling? Venus trine Saturn – where do you have them? Do you also value hard-working people? You saying that talking is cheap is sooo Venus-Saturn my dilemma exactly, yes I know how to talk, have periodic seizures of talking and yet don’t really count it as something meaningful... Writing more or less, for me it has more weight.
LOL, yes some of you would definitely deserve a payment for their services on LL (hypothetically speaking, to not provoke the moderators)
If I got this straight, you’ve got Capricorn Sun and Leo Saturn?  Do you also have Leo ASC, or is it already in Virgo? You can be secretive and honest; there isn’t a person on this earth who could convince me otherwise, so don’t let those reproaches get to you. Not telling everything is a wise thing, and yes, also us, Gemini Martians are capable of doing that oh yes and the King understood all about it... I love him and his Pisces Moon.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm secretive and honest. I put SO much effort into being candid but then there are things I just can't say. My sun is ruled by, and in mutual reception with 12H Saturn, just to list one excuse. 8H moon to list another. So if someone hints that I am sneaky, false, or "living a lie" that gets me right in the solar plexus, makes me feel like a failure. It's kinda true but have some mercy! As the song goes, "Before you accuse, criticize or abuse, Walk a Mile in My Shoes."

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posted August 05, 2014 03:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
Try having Chiron in leo 10th any slight rejection/critism of sorts from anyone I feel a stab in the heart. Especially if it's petty things, I don't like being made to feel I am stupid or a lesser human being. I don't like being laughed at, or being treated as if i'm nothing or unnoticed, or just a girl who's in the background. This might sound like i'm bigheaded or selfish, I just expect to be treated like an equal. Anyone trying to undermine me is going out of my life, and that's the end of that.

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posted August 05, 2014 04:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
The house and planet your Saturn lands on.

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posted August 05, 2014 04:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Give my weaknesses openly on here?

What kind of fool do you take me for?

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posted August 05, 2014 04:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
You have absolutely every right to demand to be treated equally. And I'm very sorry for your uncompromising Chiron, he can be such a pain in the ass, just that in your case it's a visible pain and aggrandized. Where's your Saturn and NN - do you have some karmic lessons to toughen up and build strong, independent self-confidence? I think it'll improve with age, your'll learn to catalyze such... I hope so Is your Mc also in Leo?

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posted August 05, 2014 04:21 PM            

Not quite sure honestly. I'm an honest person willing to give until I can't anymore to people I care for. I've been hurt by the most important people in my life repeatedly and over time I think it's made me really mute and unemotional in terms with emotions. I'm an emotional person yet unemotional at the same time, not sure if that will make sense. My own insults to myself hurt the most.

Is it because it's about something you value the most, hold dear? Is it because you know it's (partly) true and are trying really hard to improve it? Or is it because it's very far from the truth? Is it the characteristic you despise the most in others? Or is it something you very much admire?

I'm not exactly sure how to answer this. Yes it's important to me to a certain degree and then other times it's not. I'm super stubborn and once my mind is made up it truly is made up. I don't care if it hurts people or not, at that time my only concern is my sanity, not breaking down or submitting. I admire people like this, shows their strength they've gained from the hardships they've suffered.

Do you ever think about this? Are you aware of the negative traits attributed to you? Or are you in denial?

Don't think about it at all. I'm aware that they may be negative to other people but to me they're extremely positive. I'm no longer restricted or questioned about my motives. I feel free, like an animal let into the wild.

posted August 05, 2014 04:43 PM            

Firstly thanks for your sincere and heartfelt response.

Yes, emotive force is the trigger not the word itself, sometimes they are just symbols of past stories, complex emotions stored up... We don’t realize enough how powerful they can be, as you’ve said, not because of their original meaning, but due to what they mean to the person and what hides beneath them. And just a “simple” insult such as “stupid” might hurt one deeply, other won’t even notice.

Is there something in your synastry, composite that causes your verbal rows? Mercury-Mars for example? In my opinion Moon is not indicative so much of the manner of arguing, but the feelings that linger afterwards, and your reactions are very watery... It’s excellent you’re in a way learning to communicate, because I think that for water moons words bear more weight than for example fire and air. Because it’s not the main means of expressing your emotions, they just don’t get thrown around easily. Where do you guys have Marses?

I don’t think her brother is aware of the effect of his words. She doesn’t show that, still less tells him about it. Maybe he would reconsider it, if she shared her feelings, but I suppose that would be hard for her. I shall suggest that to her.

Now that I think about my family, I just realized something. We all have air Marses, but myself and my mother are very verbally aggressive, there isn’t a thing we haven’t said to each other and we probably take word more lightly that my sister and father. Me and mum have Sag and Aqua moons, they two have Cancer and Scorpio. Their communication is completely opposite of ours, they don’t converse a lot with each other and would never ever use hard words. So yeah, you’re probably right about the Moon having a great significance in the choice of words, probably even key significance.

You’re a wise person. Choosing carefully the people you surround yourself with is something hurtful life experiences teach us. It is necessary first to know oneself and your “limits”, your heart and your soul, also in this sense of knowing what hurts you and which person is a threat for the core of your self-worth. Well, I’m not saying that avoiding hurt at all cost is something that will take a person far in life, but yes, some healthy limits are to be set. And bearing the hurt, reliving it, is to be avoided. Congratz on your grown up decision to focus on gaining the best!

posted August 05, 2014 04:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
A scorpio? :P

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posted August 05, 2014 05:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
Stuff involving 10th, 6th and 4th house matters…
I have a pisces moon in 10th house, and I feel very vulnerable towards peoples opinion about me and my everyday life… I am also vulnerable about my home and when I am in my home…

I have a stellium in 4th and 6th house, and many of the planets touch my pisces moon in 10th house with stressful aspects. So it can be though just living from day to day at times…

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posted August 05, 2014 05:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
Really cool topic. Thanks for posting.

I would have to say that I am most sensitive about family and home matters, deep down inside. My Moon conjuncts Chiron and I feel the placement strongly. Moon is in my 9th, Saturn is in my 3rd. I never found the emotional support I needed at home. I'm planning to travel all over to help others and find the support I need in life. If someone in my family ignores me or says something hurtful about my character, my dreams, it strikes me to the core like no one else ever could.

In terms of insults, I'm most sensitive about my appearance [Chiron-ASC] and someone challenging my goals and dreams. I get more angry than upset when someone challenges my dreams. I have my MC in exact sextile to Mars and Mercury, ruling my MC, squares Mars.

Finally, I've always been really sensitive when someone yells at me. I hate loud noises and yelling by default. It breaks my heart to know someone is that angry with me and that disappointed in me that they have to yell. [Moon-Neptune]

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Thanks and my pleasure

First I have to congratulate you that you've found an outlet for your Moon Chiron, you're an example what one should do with it's weaknesses. No one is immune to the opinions of his family members, but when you get no emotional support at home, have no real "foundation" to start with, everything is even harder, all aspirations and hopes are a bit further away. I can relate to an extent, because my Mars is conjunct IC and consequently opposite MC, which means that the battles I have to fight at home, the energy I put into proving myself to my family (although I'll never admit that to them) is making harder my assertion in "real world" and yet is making me stronger, day by day. It easier for me and you to understand those who are misunderstood. It naturally leads to wanting to help.

Don't let doubtful people put you down, you know what you want, know your goals, your purpose and that's all that matters!
Abour Asc-Chiron; I know exactly how you feel (Chiron-Venus here). I don't think this insecurity about our appearances will ever disappear... But you know what, there are worse things one can experience! Just try to focus on other areas, and there you'll find enough confidence to stop your worries about your looks. After all, I'd rather be a bit shy about my body that a vain beauty that sees nothing but herself (Venus-Saturn calling!)

posted August 05, 2014 05:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Give my weaknesses openly on here?

What kind of fool do you take me for?

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As you wish.
You're also welcome to comment posts of others, provide insights, opinions, if you must comment.

posted August 05, 2014 06:07 PM            

Saturn in 12th. Let me take a stab. I don't have it though, just 12th myself.

I think it could restrict things such as daydreaming. Make for a person who wants to confront and face issues. Feeling that escapism is a step backwards. It's best to just take things head on, and to be realistic. Dreaming and hoping too much may be seen as a fault, and dangerous. Something that leads to problems and troubles in life. So this person may try to stay very realistic in their approach and always face things head on.
The unknown may be scary. They may want to always be able to know and predict what tomorrow is bringing.

This person may become overwhelmed with reality. Feeling the pressure of an artistic side that desires to be expressed, but feeling that they should not or even that some issue comes along and their artistic expression is put on the back burner once again.

I just took a wild stab at it.

Let me know if this relates.

posted August 06, 2014 12:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
Thanks and my pleasure

First I have to congratulate you that you've found an outlet for your Moon Chiron, you're an example what one should do with it's weaknesses. No one is immune to the opinions of his family members, but when you get no emotional support at home, have no real "foundation" to start with, everything is even harder, all aspirations and hopes are a bit further away. I can relate to an extent, because my Mars is conjunct IC and consequently opposite MC, which means that the battles I have to fight at home, the energy I put into proving myself to my family (although I'll never admit that to them) is making harder my assertion in "real world" and yet is making me stronger, day by day. It easier for me and you to understand those who are misunderstood. It naturally leads to wanting to help.

Don't let doubtful people put you down, you know what you want, know your goals, your purpose and that's all that matters!

Abour Asc-Chiron; I know exactly how you feel (Chiron-Venus here). I don't think this insecurity about our appearances will ever disappear... But you know what, there are worse things one can experience! Just try to focus on other areas, and there you'll find enough confidence to stop your worries about your looks. After all, I'd rather be a bit shy about my body that a vain beauty that sees nothing but herself (Venus-Saturn calling!)

Try to avoid those people that yell at you, they can't be worthy of your attention if they can't restrain themselves.

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posted August 06, 2014 07:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
@ Aries23Degrees

Firstly thanks for your sincere and heartfelt response.

Yes, emotive force is the trigger not the word itself, sometimes they are just symbols of past stories, complex emotions stored up... We don’t realize enough how powerful they can be, as you’ve said, not because of their original meaning, but due to what they mean to the person and what hides beneath them. And just a “simple” insult such as “stupid” might hurt one deeply, other won’t even notice.

Is there something in your synastry, composite that causes your verbal rows? Mercury-Mars for example?

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Well, the arguments are not plenty. The only cause of friction could be my Mars on his Sun. He says that I can be very "pushy" with him.

I also have Mercury in Capricorn squaring his Sun, so I tended to second-guess his approach to things -a lot.

I've had to restrict that or focus that elsewhere-in the past,it annoyed him a lot.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:

In my opinion Moon is not indicative so much of the manner of arguing, but the feelings that linger afterwards, and your reactions are very watery... It’s excellent you’re in a way learning to communicate, because I think that for water moons words bear more weight than for example fire and air. Because it’s not the main means of expressing your emotions, they just don’t get thrown around easily. Where do you guys have Marses?

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Well i have Mars in Libra and he has it in Virgo.

You'd be surprised just how present the moon is in our everyday interaction.

My Moon is in 3rd and so, i "absorb" all the things said in conversation and replay them. sometimes that is good and sometimes not. Because I recall things that he will say "I didn't say that" But I remember the tone, the expression EVERYTHING.

He has his Moon in 3rd too and so,he also remembers-from his side- what I said,did, failed to so etc.

It can get quite heated between us. But one can tell that there is a lot of feelings involved when we argue. We are definitely not indifferent to each other. NOT AT ALL.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:

I don’t think her brother is aware of the effect of his words. She doesn’t show that, still less tells him about it. Maybe he would reconsider it, if she shared her feelings, but I suppose that would be hard for her. I shall suggest that to her.

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Sometimes it may be difficult to talk to a nurtfulful perosn-when they are not likely to be sensitive of the nature of the conversation.

I have had "emotion" conversations with people that have said "oh stop being so sensitive!" or "why do you have to make everything one big drama?"

So I understand her reservation in not being able to express this to her brother; she may be weary as to how insensitively he may respond to her trying to improve their relations.

The best way is to restrict interaction with those people to only that which is necessary and focus on other people who bring on the love.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:

Now that I think about my family, I just realized something. We all have air Marses, but myself and my mother are very verbally aggressive, there isn’t a thing we haven’t said to each other and we probably take word more lightly that my sister and father. Me and mum have Sag and Aqua moons, they two have Cancer and Scorpio. Their communication is completely opposite of ours, they don’t converse a lot with each other and would never ever use hard words. So yeah, you’re probably right about the Moon having a great significance in the choice of words, probably even key significance.

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Yes I have also noted that air Moons seem to have no issues with word fights-(no holds barred)Lol. But I think it also depends on the house that the Moon is in right?

I've meet a lot of Libra Moons that are very sensitive to how you speak to them and vice versa.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:

You’re a wise person. Choosing carefully the people you surround yourself with is something hurtful life experiences teach us. It is necessary first to know oneself and your “limits”, your heart and your soul, also in this sense of knowing what hurts you and which person is a threat for the core of your self-worth. Well, I’m not saying that avoiding hurt at all cost is something that will take a person far in life, but yes, some healthy limits are to be set. And bearing the hurt, reliving it, is to be avoided. Congratz on your grown up decision to focus on gaining the best!

p.s.: was there a special transit, progression which made this turn in your thinking, acting? Or is it simply something that came with age?

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I have always been like this. The "sensitive" one.

I've never thought of it "crazy" and something that I need to "get over" etc.

You can be amazed at how healing words can be and I have experienced,first hand,that when you tell someone a kind word- you influence the change of their day's direction(for better or worse).

If you are in a wonderful conversation with a person at a bank, you forget about how bad the service really was. But you do remember the details of the conversation that you had with that certain person and keep on smiling.

posted August 06, 2014 11:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
I think your fear of being isolated, alone, stems partly out of your 12H Saturn... Saturn being restrictive, fearsome and insecure, residing there, would emphasise that, despite the fact that it’s supposed to be our “destiny” – to lead a loner’s life or at least a bit secluded. Where is your NN? What do you think would make you dread loneliness – do you have a lot of “social” signs or emphasised southern hemisphere?

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I agree about 12H Saturn playing a major role in those fears.

4H Scorpio NN does point to some isolation, plus the 8H Pisces moon ruling my 12H. But with a planet in each of the air and fire signs, mostly aspecting my Leo ASC, there's a lot of tension between my introverted and extroverted sides.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
...now I’ve learned to be a bit more selective when it comes to the public acceptance of my persona. It something we all need to learn

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Do you mean, you select what you will pay attention to, and what you will ignore? I'm kinda like that. Some insults have almost NO impact on me. Actually...MOST insults don't affect me...not that I get insulted too often, even at LL. But I think it has to do with feeling secure in my own intentions.

ETA: To explain, I see a difference between criticism and insults. A valid criticism, one that gets under my skin, is more likely to be intelligent and specific, unlike generic insults, which IMO usually make the person spewing them look bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
You must know this frustrating feeling?

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Yes. It takes a lot of patience to endure that long time lapse between when I speak and when people finally realize just how right I am.

J/k...yes I know what you mean about frustration.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
Venus trine Saturn – where do you have them?

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0 Leo Saturn R
6 Sag Venus

You have the opposition, then? You're a youngin! You Scorpio Pluto kids are always astounding me with how bright you are.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
Do you also value hard-working people? You saying that talking is cheap is sooo Venus-Saturn

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Now that you mention it...yes! But I'm also a Cap so that just goes with the territory. And it depends on what kind of work a person is doing...I happen to admire artistic work (Venus-Saturn) like being a professional chef, or an architect, or even physical work like being a horse trainer, more than desk jobs...though it's impossible to generalize.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
If I got this straight, you’ve got Capricorn Sun and Leo Saturn? Do you also have Leo ASC, or is it already in Virgo?

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Yup! That's the kind of sleuthing that AMAZED me when I first signed up here and couldn't follow the conversations for beans. Already mentioned my Leo ASC but why not say it again, everyone knows I must be SO proud of it!

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
You can be secretive and honest; there isn’t a person on this earth who could convince me otherwise, so don’t let those reproaches get to you.

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Thank you, I appreciate that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
Not telling everything is a wise thing, and yes, also us, Gemini Martians are capable of doing that

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LOL...yes, despite how much I talk, there is still so much left unsaid!

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
oh yes and the King understood all about it... I love him and his Pisces Moon.

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OMG!!! I love him and his Pisces moon, too!

quote:

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Originally posted by Belba:
This paragraph is beautiful, I respect you for your honesty and expressiveness.

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